You lose

myersey
myersey
Skilled Warrior
Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 431
edited 15 Sep 2022, 4:00PM
You should have listened to the masses instead of the whales. You would have kept your numbers up and got that 30 mill. Seems you are never going to learn one simple rule of business if you are going to sell to the mases you best listen to all your customers.
  • Mercury413
    Mercury413
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 162
    edited 15 Sep 2022, 5:31PM
    While I wish this were true, it doesn't speak to the actual business model being followed in this game.  Personally, I'd much prefer it if the game cost a nominal monthly subscription, say $5, and had the masses buy in -- so a million players generating a guaranteed income of $5 mil a month.  No more pay to win and more room for Kix to work towards the balance in PVP and less rushed content in PVE that most everyone calls for.  But the "make it cheap and have a lot of players" route has never been the business model.  The game has always advertised itself as play basic for free; but pay for the premium experience. (I know in the early days Harbin said you could pay or put in the time, but very few people could put in enough time to keep up with those that paid). And the vast player numbers it had in the early years were because it was advertised that way.  When players realized that they were never going to be at the top of the game -- and they wanted to be -- or at least not be farmed regularly, unless they bought the necessary improvements, they either paid or got bored and left.  

    The entire business model of the game is that some folks will pay, a lot, and regularly, to be current, but that most won't pay much or anything. Try asking players that pay for free if they'd pay a nominal amount per month for a better experience and most will say no.  Look at the pride that non-coiners have about not coining, all the while showing contempt for those that do.  And many players still seem to enjoy some aspects of the game, especially PVE, for little or no coin.  (And yes I do coin, more than $5 a month, though not the hundreds or more some are willing to drop.) If you accept you won't be at the very top unless you pay a lot, then you can still have fun in the game. Its all about managing your expectations.

    Ultimately, someone has to pay for the game to continue, and Kix knows there is a subset of players willing to do so, which allows the possibility of others to pay for free (or for very little).  What is amazing to me is the longevity of this game and the loyalty of its players compared to other games which took a similar approach a decade ago and are now long gone.
  • Blackbeard III
    Blackbeard III
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 4,570
    edited 15 Sep 2022, 9:05PM
    It amazes me how much folks throw at pixels. I once asked an old alli boss how much he'd dropped on the game (he's deceased, so won't be reading this)

    I guess at the time he had 5-6 years in-game, & he said he'd dropped about US$35k. Add a couple more years to that, 2 coined GCs & a P-Nem, plus who knows how many coined basers/chore fleets.

    Pixels. That's what people are buying, not like they're actually worth anything, but emotions.
  • Blackbeard III
    Blackbeard III
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 4,570
    edited 16 Sep 2022, 9:43AM
    DB-605b said:
    It amazes me how much folks throw at pixels. I once asked an old alli boss how much he'd dropped on the game (he's deceased, so won't be reading this)

    I guess at the time he had 5-6 years in-game, & he said he'd dropped about US$35k. Add a couple more years to that, 2 coined GCs & a P-Nem, plus who knows how many coined basers/chore fleets.

    Pixels. That's what people are buying, not like they're actually worth anything, but emotions.
    I certainly can't speak for others, and would not try, but in my book, it all comes down to paying for your entertainment. Back in the day, television was "free to watch, but pay to advertise." Except it wasn't free to watch, ask any parent. Those advertising dollars spent required someone to actually WATCH the commercials, then go buy the product or service being advertised. Some advertisers are really good at separating a viewer from their cash, especially those companies geared towards kids. Then the corporate bigwigs decided they could make more money selling subscriptions to ad-free content, and they called it "cable tv.". Then some really smart bigwig realized, now that they pay for service, they're a captive audience and could be advertised to again, and they called that "satellite tv." And there were some seriously angry advertisers whose audiences did not watch their showing of Dallas because their satellite-owning friends told them who shot JR before the show. Now, you pay for subscription content AND watch crummy ads. Like going to Las Vegas? same difference, you're paying for entertainment. Got a Playstation or X-Box? You probably pay for a subscription AND pay for all the new release games. What's the difference? And don't get me started on sports, and all the money the average Joe pays in a year to support the billionaire who owns his favorite team. Going to a game and going home with a ticket stub, pictures, and memories, or a weekend in Vegas with pictures and a hangover, or Cyberpunk 2077 and maybe the latest GTA, or paying for your fun through a few raids. What's the difference? I'm not here hacking on how anyone spends his or her own money, and I'm not hacking on people who smoke or drink their money. The people who pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars each year to support their favorite team make it possible for the viewers at home to watch the game too. (Literally. If the stadium's not full, the owner will blackout the televised showing.) People who pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars each year going to Vegas make cheap travel to that end of the country possible. The people who paid 50 grand for a satellite dish back when it was a C-Band dish on a concrete pad made it possible for others to have Dish Network for cheap. And those of us that coin make it possible for those who don't to play for free.
    An old saying went "Never look a gift-horse in the mouth." Our economy is no longer equestrian-based, so people may not understand that saying. It means that if someone gives you a horse, say thank you and move on. Don't open it's mouth to see if it has bad teeth.

    Thanks for the ability to watch the Colorado Rockies in my living room. You're welcome for making BP free to play.
    With TV, New Zealand used to have licenses that you had to pay for. Many, many years ago, but it helped fund stuff. We've got a satellite service, who, if you haven't paid your bill on time, turn off your access @ 10pm, & no service until you make a call in the morning.

    If you buy a PS game, it's ALWAYS going to have x amount of playablity. Some games you can play & play, trying different things. PS2s' "Killzone" is an excellent case in point.

    With this game, the returns are diminishing, much like how the retrofit lab works haha. Go back a few years, & fleets a year old were still viable. Now? if you're gone for more than 3 months, you've basically got to start afresh (except for the FM fleet, which will need upgrading)

    Don't assume ALL have lots of $ to throw at entertainment. & if someone gave me a horse that did have bad teeth, well, Im sure I'll still get some $ from the knackers' yard for it :)

    If the game DID go to a subscription-based game of $5 a month & much better access to fleet builds blah blah, you know, a MORE ENJOYABLE GAME, I think a lot of players would be fine with that. There ARE small coiners too (minnows) who drop 100 coin a month, maybe bought during a raid.
  • ACAM73
    ACAM73
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 408
    While I wish this were true, it doesn't speak to the actual business model being followed in this game.  Personally, I'd much prefer it if the game cost a nominal monthly subscription, say $5, and had the masses buy in -- so a million players generating a guaranteed income of $5 mil a month.  No more pay to win and more room for Kix to work towards the balance in PVP and less rushed content in PVE that most everyone calls for.  But the "make it cheap and have a lot of players" route has never been the business model.  The game has always advertised itself as play basic for free; but pay for the premium experience. (I know in the early days Harbin said you could pay or put in the time, but very few people could put in enough time to keep up with those that paid). And the vast player numbers it had in the early years were because it was advertised that way.  When players realized that they were never going to be at the top of the game -- and they wanted to be -- or at least not be farmed regularly, unless they bought the necessary improvements, they either paid or got bored and left.  

    The entire business model of the game is that some folks will pay, a lot, and regularly, to be current, but that most won't pay much or anything. Try asking players that pay for free if they'd pay a nominal amount per month for a better experience and most will say no.  Look at the pride that non-coiners have about not coining, all the while showing contempt for those that do.  And many players still seem to enjoy some aspects of the game, especially PVE, for little or no coin.  (And yes I do coin, more than $5 a month, though not the hundreds or more some are willing to drop.) If you accept you won't be at the very top unless you pay a lot, then you can still have fun in the game. Its all about managing your expectations.

    Ultimately, someone has to pay for the game to continue, and Kix knows there is a subset of players willing to do so, which allows the possibility of others to pay for free (or for very little).  What is amazing to me is the longevity of this game and the loyalty of its players compared to other games which took a similar approach a decade ago and are now long gone.
    You're wrong on that part. I mean there's still games out there that came out 10 years ago. My very first FB game was Mouse Hunt and its still around and i still play it. What this game did was very little and it still has a nice player base. Mouse Hunt didnt cater to the Whales or credit card players. At first they had small deal packs for everyone and as time went by. They catered there deals to the high end players while keeping the low level deals. So everyone can buy what they  can afford to spend. Now if Kix would only listen to everyone then this game would be great. 

    Im almost at the end of my time here. Im really tired of needing million of points while the targets pay less. The past 2 raids Ive got 400 million points. Last month I got 175 million points and that was just enough to get what I needed and this month, I got 225 million points. Again, Just enough to get what i needed and a bit left over to spend. Its crazy how many points we need.....
  • Sputnik001
    Sputnik001
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 2,502
    ACAM73 said:
    While I wish this were true, it doesn't speak to the actual business model being followed in this game.  Personally, I'd much prefer it if the game cost a nominal monthly subscription, say $5, and had the masses buy in -- so a million players generating a guaranteed income of $5 mil a month.  No more pay to win and more room for Kix to work towards the balance in PVP and less rushed content in PVE that most everyone calls for.  But the "make it cheap and have a lot of players" route has never been the business model.  The game has always advertised itself as play basic for free; but pay for the premium experience. (I know in the early days Harbin said you could pay or put in the time, but very few people could put in enough time to keep up with those that paid). And the vast player numbers it had in the early years were because it was advertised that way.  When players realized that they were never going to be at the top of the game -- and they wanted to be -- or at least not be farmed regularly, unless they bought the necessary improvements, they either paid or got bored and left.  

    The entire business model of the game is that some folks will pay, a lot, and regularly, to be current, but that most won't pay much or anything. Try asking players that pay for free if they'd pay a nominal amount per month for a better experience and most will say no.  Look at the pride that non-coiners have about not coining, all the while showing contempt for those that do.  And many players still seem to enjoy some aspects of the game, especially PVE, for little or no coin.  (And yes I do coin, more than $5 a month, though not the hundreds or more some are willing to drop.) If you accept you won't be at the very top unless you pay a lot, then you can still have fun in the game. Its all about managing your expectations.

    Ultimately, someone has to pay for the game to continue, and Kix knows there is a subset of players willing to do so, which allows the possibility of others to pay for free (or for very little).  What is amazing to me is the longevity of this game and the loyalty of its players compared to other games which took a similar approach a decade ago and are now long gone.
    You're wrong on that part. I mean there's still games out there that came out 10 years ago. My very first FB game was Mouse Hunt and its still around and i still play it. What this game did was very little and it still has a nice player base. Mouse Hunt didnt cater to the Whales or credit card players. At first they had small deal packs for everyone and as time went by. They catered there deals to the high end players while keeping the low level deals. So everyone can buy what they  can afford to spend. Now if Kix would only listen to everyone then this game would be great. 

    Im almost at the end of my time here. Im really tired of needing million of points while the targets pay less. The past 2 raids Ive got 400 million points. Last month I got 175 million points and that was just enough to get what I needed and this month, I got 225 million points. Again, Just enough to get what i needed and a bit left over to spend. Its crazy how many points we need.....
    Wow, that's impressive results from the raids....

    I guess this is the point of this thread, what someone deems is "needed" vs "wanted"

    For me the strategy part (along with how to build) is want to get in prizes.

    To get the top prizes from the raid just gone, should be no more than 70M. Thats getting the flag, upgrade kits for Arctic flag and HG flag, 20M upgrade gambit kits, upgrade Ob tokens, stratgem engs. ~70M

    This is another reason trying to figure out that difference - needs vs wants.  No point in smashing yourself either through time or coin on this game to get yourself nothing but frustrated and annoyed.
  • Max Thornton
    Max Thornton
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 1,370
    This is absurd.

  • Blackbeard III
    Blackbeard III
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 4,570
    This is absurd.

    What's researching?
  • Blackbeard III
    Blackbeard III
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 4,570
    ACAM73 said:
    While I wish this were true, it doesn't speak to the actual business model being followed in this game.  Personally, I'd much prefer it if the game cost a nominal monthly subscription, say $5, and had the masses buy in -- so a million players generating a guaranteed income of $5 mil a month.  No more pay to win and more room for Kix to work towards the balance in PVP and less rushed content in PVE that most everyone calls for.  But the "make it cheap and have a lot of players" route has never been the business model.  The game has always advertised itself as play basic for free; but pay for the premium experience. (I know in the early days Harbin said you could pay or put in the time, but very few people could put in enough time to keep up with those that paid). And the vast player numbers it had in the early years were because it was advertised that way.  When players realized that they were never going to be at the top of the game -- and they wanted to be -- or at least not be farmed regularly, unless they bought the necessary improvements, they either paid or got bored and left.  

    The entire business model of the game is that some folks will pay, a lot, and regularly, to be current, but that most won't pay much or anything. Try asking players that pay for free if they'd pay a nominal amount per month for a better experience and most will say no.  Look at the pride that non-coiners have about not coining, all the while showing contempt for those that do.  And many players still seem to enjoy some aspects of the game, especially PVE, for little or no coin.  (And yes I do coin, more than $5 a month, though not the hundreds or more some are willing to drop.) If you accept you won't be at the very top unless you pay a lot, then you can still have fun in the game. Its all about managing your expectations.

    Ultimately, someone has to pay for the game to continue, and Kix knows there is a subset of players willing to do so, which allows the possibility of others to pay for free (or for very little).  What is amazing to me is the longevity of this game and the loyalty of its players compared to other games which took a similar approach a decade ago and are now long gone.
    You're wrong on that part. I mean there's still games out there that came out 10 years ago. My very first FB game was Mouse Hunt and its still around and i still play it. What this game did was very little and it still has a nice player base. Mouse Hunt didnt cater to the Whales or credit card players. At first they had small deal packs for everyone and as time went by. They catered there deals to the high end players while keeping the low level deals. So everyone can buy what they  can afford to spend. Now if Kix would only listen to everyone then this game would be great. 

    Im almost at the end of my time here. Im really tired of needing million of points while the targets pay less. The past 2 raids Ive got 400 million points. Last month I got 175 million points and that was just enough to get what I needed and this month, I got 225 million points. Again, Just enough to get what i needed and a bit left over to spend. Its crazy how many points we need.....
    I'm done with this scam myself. I just come to forums to see the disasters now. Not like I'm going to get far in the game if I logged in, without any Siege fleets for raiding with, & standard Gambits to do Pillage with. 

    How many FM points do you need each week for those all-essential limited items in Tier 5 of FM? 2-3 million or more? & for Pillage?
  • Max Thornton
    Max Thornton
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 1,370
    edited 16 Sep 2022, 10:05AM
    What's researching?

    A rocket in the weapons lab. Bunker Buster 7.
  • ACAM73
    ACAM73
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 408
    ACAM73 said:
    While I wish this were true, it doesn't speak to the actual business model being followed in this game.  Personally, I'd much prefer it if the game cost a nominal monthly subscription, say $5, and had the masses buy in -- so a million players generating a guaranteed income of $5 mil a month.  No more pay to win and more room for Kix to work towards the balance in PVP and less rushed content in PVE that most everyone calls for.  But the "make it cheap and have a lot of players" route has never been the business model.  The game has always advertised itself as play basic for free; but pay for the premium experience. (I know in the early days Harbin said you could pay or put in the time, but very few people could put in enough time to keep up with those that paid). And the vast player numbers it had in the early years were because it was advertised that way.  When players realized that they were never going to be at the top of the game -- and they wanted to be -- or at least not be farmed regularly, unless they bought the necessary improvements, they either paid or got bored and left.  

    The entire business model of the game is that some folks will pay, a lot, and regularly, to be current, but that most won't pay much or anything. Try asking players that pay for free if they'd pay a nominal amount per month for a better experience and most will say no.  Look at the pride that non-coiners have about not coining, all the while showing contempt for those that do.  And many players still seem to enjoy some aspects of the game, especially PVE, for little or no coin.  (And yes I do coin, more than $5 a month, though not the hundreds or more some are willing to drop.) If you accept you won't be at the very top unless you pay a lot, then you can still have fun in the game. Its all about managing your expectations.

    Ultimately, someone has to pay for the game to continue, and Kix knows there is a subset of players willing to do so, which allows the possibility of others to pay for free (or for very little).  What is amazing to me is the longevity of this game and the loyalty of its players compared to other games which took a similar approach a decade ago and are now long gone.
    You're wrong on that part. I mean there's still games out there that came out 10 years ago. My very first FB game was Mouse Hunt and its still around and i still play it. What this game did was very little and it still has a nice player base. Mouse Hunt didnt cater to the Whales or credit card players. At first they had small deal packs for everyone and as time went by. They catered there deals to the high end players while keeping the low level deals. So everyone can buy what they  can afford to spend. Now if Kix would only listen to everyone then this game would be great. 

    Im almost at the end of my time here. Im really tired of needing million of points while the targets pay less. The past 2 raids Ive got 400 million points. Last month I got 175 million points and that was just enough to get what I needed and this month, I got 225 million points. Again, Just enough to get what i needed and a bit left over to spend. Its crazy how many points we need.....
    Wow, that's impressive results from the raids....

    I guess this is the point of this thread, what someone deems is "needed" vs "wanted"

    For me the strategy part (along with how to build) is want to get in prizes.

    To get the top prizes from the raid just gone, should be no more than 70M. Thats getting the flag, upgrade kits for Arctic flag and HG flag, 20M upgrade gambit kits, upgrade Ob tokens, stratgem engs. ~70M

    This is another reason trying to figure out that difference - needs vs wants.  No point in smashing yourself either through time or coin on this game to get yourself nothing but frustrated and annoyed.
    Thanks and it was only about 5 hours a day that I was putting in. An hour here or there and sometimes 2 hours. Its still crazy how many points we need. In my sector I saw the leaderboard. Most had a 100 million points or a bit over and i was like wow. There going to come up short for what they need. I always go with what I need... This raid was all about getting my raid fleet upgraded and then build my last ship. Now I got lucky and placed in Pillage and got extra upgrade tokens for my raid fleet. I have 3 ships at x1, My flagship at U3 and my 5th ship is at U3. After that I was going after the Gambit flagship with the upgrade kits. Then then mortars and so on. 

    45 million points for the mortars and so on. So just because I got 225 million points isnt chit now a days. Kix is just getting really forking greedy and im tired of it. 

    Im playing time is now limited. Im starting to play other games on my Ps4 Pro that i bought and never played because i was so into BP. If i get what I want for Christmas. I believe im time here will be very limited. Its kix greed that is killing it for me and the fact that our raid fleets are only good for 2 months. Kix says we can still use them, Yeah right. Why would i want to take 3 targets for 450k points. Thats forking insane. 

    Bottom line is... Im tired and all this bullchit and greed. I understand that its a business and Kix needs to make money. But this game is really carted to the top 1%. The Whales will have everything coined about 30mins into an event. Its just crazy 

    Here's some advice that was given to me like 50 years ago LOL 

    Make a list of what you want and then go back over it. Then take from that list what you need and always go with what you need and not what you want. Need need need and just maybe youll make it like i did. I spend very little. I use to buy my grades and now im not... Just because im tired 

  • Blackbeard III
    Blackbeard III
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 4,570
    What's researching?

    A rocket in the weapons lab. Bunker Buster 7.

    This is absurd.

    Ah yup.
    I guess you've burned the research tokens that were dropped recently? Wasnt it like 20 x 24h tokens?
  • Bindewe
    Bindewe
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 596
    While I wish this were true, it doesn't speak to the actual business model being followed in this game.  Personally, I'd much prefer it if the game cost a nominal monthly subscription, say $5, and had the masses buy in -- so a million players generating a guaranteed income of $5 mil a month.  No more pay to win and more room for Kix to work towards the balance in PVP and less rushed content in PVE that most everyone calls for.  But the "make it cheap and have a lot of players" route has never been the business model.  The game has always advertised itself as play basic for free; but pay for the premium experience. (I know in the early days Harbin said you could pay or put in the time, but very few people could put in enough time to keep up with those that paid). And the vast player numbers it had in the early years were because it was advertised that way.  When players realized that they were never going to be at the top of the game -- and they wanted to be -- or at least not be farmed regularly, unless they bought the necessary improvements, they either paid or got bored and left.  

    The entire business model of the game is that some folks will pay, a lot, and regularly, to be current, but that most won't pay much or anything. Try asking players that pay for free if they'd pay a nominal amount per month for a better experience and most will say no.  Look at the pride that non-coiners have about not coining, all the while showing contempt for those that do.  And many players still seem to enjoy some aspects of the game, especially PVE, for little or no coin.  (And yes I do coin, more than $5 a month, though not the hundreds or more some are willing to drop.) If you accept you won't be at the very top unless you pay a lot, then you can still have fun in the game. Its all about managing your expectations.

    Ultimately, someone has to pay for the game to continue, and Kix knows there is a subset of players willing to do so, which allows the possibility of others to pay for free (or for very little).  What is amazing to me is the longevity of this game and the loyalty of its players compared to other games which took a similar approach a decade ago and are now long gone.
    Its a shame they didn't do that early on,  
Sign In or Register to comment.