Harrower no longer able to help guard bases

robert.sorrell.39
robert.sorrell.39
Potential Threat
Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 55
The only thing I used this ship for since it was not much use at anything else was guarding my base. Why was that function removed. it seems as though if we like something it has to go. Heaven forbid we get to do what we want to do.
  • Frank_n_beans
    Frank_n_beans
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2015 Posts: 75

    Don't blame Kix. Blame the players that would drive them corner to corner and running away during battle effectively stopping their bases from EVER being hit.

  • Jd Hogg
    Jd Hogg
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 19
    Did you not hear the "Bellowing of the Whales" ?     :'(:'(:'(
    had nothing to do with the whales bellowing as you put it and more to do with the fact ppl were driving it from corner to corner knowing the harrower doesnt surface unless it stops and cant be seen or targeted while submerged to keep the base it was guarding from being hit which resulted in unfair game play which is against the TOS
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 2,771
    This is not "Kixeye hates defenders, guard fleets, subs, or fun"

    Please understand two things.

    1) Most active PvP players both attack AND defend
    2) If the Harrower is moving, it can not be detected, shot at, surfaced, or damaged in any way.

    Second points first. This was a clear unintended feature. I hope people can see that having something that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to attack a base if ANYONE in the alliance is on and sets 4 waypoints and drives in a circle should not happen. I am all for guarding and defending bases, but when you create an infinite loop that prevent an attempt at even hitting the base something needs to change

    On the first point, active PvP players in big alliances were guarding bases with a Harrower meaning it was literally impossible to attack them. I am also sure some were violating the TOS and account sharing so there was a guard on and a player online 24/7. Most PvP players both attack and defend. It is not about attackers vs defenders, we do BOTH and most of us want it to be balanced 50/50 (although of course I would like to win 75% of attacks and 75% of defenses on average the two need to add to 100%). Nobody likes "click the back of the base and win" fleets, just the same as nobody likes "bases that are literally unbeatable by any fleet". 

    My suggestion was to make the Harrower only be able to deep dive if the enemy fleet as a defender in it, or only while attacking bases. This would mean it can keep it's originally use (although the impact of both my suggestion and the one Kixeye took are the same: Harrower is a prep ship vs the Overlord NotCarrier and can't be used in an infinite loop that prevents combat). 

    If you think a ship that can be driven in a circle and prevents any combat from even starting in an infinite loop is a good thing, you're a lot cause. 
    When I am not helping people on forums, and I'm not banned, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

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  • Alexa the BAE
    Alexa the BAE
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 827
    The only thing I used this ship for since it was not much use at anything else was guarding my base. Why was that function removed. it seems as though if we like something it has to go. Heaven forbid we get to do what we want to do.
    I'm not sure it's ever been about "get to do what we want", if that was once the case it ended before I began playing.
    And it's not even about "get to do what the game permits", because that is based on an infinitely non finite set of "rules" and it too has ended.
      
    The dislikes of the entitled who want instant gratification has been voiced for months. Rather than accept the challenges of hitting bases. Rather than owning up to the mechanics of certain hulls, (which had been foreseen by the state of the art designers this company is famous for). Rather than own up to the mechanics of the game (attack/defend), the solution was blame the players. The population of people dropping stupid money is dwindling. Considerations for 2 full built hulls on the map the moment bounty store opened had to be made. Rather than admit the real reason for changing the way we "get to do what the game permits"  (using allowed hulls to defend), players were vilified and labeled exploiters. Not once has a player who uses ad blockers, (tools clearly forbidden in T.O.S. when used to manipulate (exploit) the mechanics of the game) messaged me about how well exploiting the game is working for them. But I have received abusive messages directed at me because of the way I used the mechanics of this game (guarding my base), for using the tools provided by the game the way the game intended, the way the game permits.
    No Robert, it's not about "get to do what we want", sadly it's about hypocrisy.
    "a computer once beat me at chess but it was no match for me at kick boxing"
  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572

    Don't blame Kix. Blame the players that would drive them corner to corner and running away during battle effectively stopping their bases from EVER being hit.

    easiest solution was to stop harrowers from guarding only, i cant even use my gluts to guard anymore
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572
    Jd Hogg said:
    Did you not hear the "Bellowing of the Whales" ?     :'(:'(:'(
    had nothing to do with the whales bellowing as you put it and more to do with the fact ppl were driving it from corner to corner knowing the harrower doesnt surface unless it stops and cant be seen or targeted while submerged to keep the base it was guarding from being hit which resulted in unfair game play which is against the TOS
    technically kixeye knew what they were doing when they released the hull so players using the hull as it was intended on release is no fault to the hull owners but the game designers, wether it be on purpose or ill thought out, the players seem to know more about the game than the actual devs at this point in terms of functionality
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  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572
    This is not "Kixeye hates defenders, guard fleets, subs, or fun"

    Please understand two things.

    1) Most active PvP players both attack AND defend
    2) If the Harrower is moving, it can not be detected, shot at, surfaced, or damaged in any way.

    Second points first. This was a clear unintended feature. I hope people can see that having something that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to attack a base if ANYONE in the alliance is on and sets 4 waypoints and drives in a circle should not happen. I am all for guarding and defending bases, but when you create an infinite loop that prevent an attempt at even hitting the base something needs to change

    On the first point, active PvP players in big alliances were guarding bases with a Harrower meaning it was literally impossible to attack them. I am also sure some were violating the TOS and account sharing so there was a guard on and a player online 24/7. Most PvP players both attack and defend. It is not about attackers vs defenders, we do BOTH and most of us want it to be balanced 50/50 (although of course I would like to win 75% of attacks and 75% of defenses on average the two need to add to 100%). Nobody likes "click the back of the base and win" fleets, just the same as nobody likes "bases that are literally unbeatable by any fleet". 

    My suggestion was to make the Harrower only be able to deep dive if the enemy fleet as a defender in it, or only while attacking bases. This would mean it can keep it's originally use (although the impact of both my suggestion and the one Kixeye took are the same: Harrower is a prep ship vs the Overlord NotCarrier and can't be used in an infinite loop that prevents combat). 

    If you think a ship that can be driven in a circle and prevents any combat from even starting in an infinite loop is a good thing, you're a lot cause. 
    i dont think it was uninteded, you cant tell me no one at the office thought this would have been an issue in the first place, heck if i was working there i would have noticed this flaw from day 1 of conception,  but yes that sub never coming up while driven was a terrible idea atleast for the fact that it was able to guard bases, however now they ruined base defence for the rest of us who use other subs in conjuction with our conqs to have 1 line of defence before the initial beating our base would get

    Image result for shy girls mario
  • Bin_Chicken
    Bin_Chicken
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2015 Posts: 202
    those of us that don't guard because its a base hitting game don't see what all the fuss is about tbh.
  • Dopey_ARANG
    Dopey_ARANG
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 374
    edited 10 May 2021, 2:42AM
    This is not "Kixeye hates defenders, guard fleets, subs, or fun"

    Please understand two things.

    1) Most active PvP players both attack AND defend
    2) If the Harrower is moving, it can not be detected, shot at, surfaced, or damaged in any way.

    Second points first. This was a clear unintended feature. I hope people can see that having something that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to attack a base if ANYONE in the alliance is on and sets 4 waypoints and drives in a circle should not happen. I am all for guarding and defending bases, but when you create an infinite loop that prevent an attempt at even hitting the base something needs to change

    On the first point, active PvP players in big alliances were guarding bases with a Harrower meaning it was literally impossible to attack them. I am also sure some were violating the TOS and account sharing so there was a guard on and a player online 24/7. Most PvP players both attack and defend. It is not about attackers vs defenders, we do BOTH and most of us want it to be balanced 50/50 (although of course I would like to win 75% of attacks and 75% of defenses on average the two need to add to 100%). Nobody likes "click the back of the base and win" fleets, just the same as nobody likes "bases that are literally unbeatable by any fleet". 

    My suggestion was to make the Harrower only be able to deep dive if the enemy fleet as a defender in it, or only while attacking bases. This would mean it can keep it's originally use (although the impact of both my suggestion and the one Kixeye took are the same: Harrower is a prep ship vs the Overlord NotCarrier and can't be used in an infinite loop that prevents combat). 

    If you think a ship that can be driven in a circle and prevents any combat from even starting in an infinite loop is a good thing, you're a lot cause. 
    i dont think it was uninteded, you cant tell me no one at the office thought this would have been an issue in the first place, heck if i was working there i would have noticed this flaw from day 1 of conception,  but yes that sub never coming up while driven was a terrible idea atleast for the fact that it was able to guard bases, however now they ruined base defence for the rest of us who use other subs in conjuction with our conqs to have 1 line of defence before the initial beating our base would get

    I made a suggestion about just changing the harrowers deep dive to act like a ghostcrawler... never surface, but have deep dive stages. All problems fixed with that lil tweak. Guessing the current dev team wasnt around back then tho, so that idea is beyond their scope. Its just easier to cripple the defenders a lil more than to force players to strategize
    Horrific, Deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty woids! 
  • Nyction
    Nyction
    Greenhorn
    Joined Feb 2014 Posts: 24
    edited 10 May 2021, 6:51AM
    This is not "Kixeye hates defenders, guard fleets, subs, or fun"

    Please understand two things.

    1) Most active PvP players both attack AND defend
    2) If the Harrower is moving, it can not be detected, shot at, surfaced, or damaged in any way.

    Second points first. This was a clear unintended feature. I hope people can see that having something that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to attack a base if ANYONE in the alliance is on and sets 4 waypoints and drives in a circle should not happen. I am all for guarding and defending bases, but when you create an infinite loop that prevent an attempt at even hitting the base something needs to change

    On the first point, active PvP players in big alliances were guarding bases with a Harrower meaning it was literally impossible to attack them. I am also sure some were violating the TOS and account sharing so there was a guard on and a player online 24/7. Most PvP players both attack and defend. It is not about attackers vs defenders, we do BOTH and most of us want it to be balanced 50/50 (although of course I would like to win 75% of attacks and 75% of defenses on average the two need to add to 100%). Nobody likes "click the back of the base and win" fleets, just the same as nobody likes "bases that are literally unbeatable by any fleet". 

    My suggestion was to make the Harrower only be able to deep dive if the enemy fleet as a defender in it, or only while attacking bases. This would mean it can keep it's originally use (although the impact of both my suggestion and the one Kixeye took are the same: Harrower is a prep ship vs the Overlord NotCarrier and can't be used in an infinite loop that prevents combat). 

    If you think a ship that can be driven in a circle and prevents any combat from even starting in an infinite loop is a good thing, you're a lot cause. 
    i dont think it was uninteded, you cant tell me no one at the office thought this would have been an issue in the first place, heck if i was working there i would have noticed this flaw from day 1 of conception,  but yes that sub never coming up while driven was a terrible idea atleast for the fact that it was able to guard bases, however now they ruined base defence for the rest of us who use other subs in conjuction with our conqs to have 1 line of defence before the initial beating our base would get

    If you don't mind my asking, what subs are even relevant enough to consider including in base defense (Aside from the Gatekeeper)? Ever since the pve number crunch, nothing is really worth putting in as Abyssal Torps are defender/underwater locked and Piranha IV has essentially no range.
  • michaelg21
    michaelg21
    Master Tactician
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 2,092
    Every feature has a way to be abused. Look at the medal system. People STILL abuse it. Because there are ALWAYS people that want to find a way to beat the system for their own benefit. There is nothing wrong with using skill in a game to your advantage. But, if you use an exploit to make the game impossible to play for others-well, this is the same as cheating. Look at it from OTHERS point of view other then your own. It's not real life and your life doesn't depend on it. It's a **** game. You don't need to cheat or use an exploit to win. If you do, you should re-evaluate your reason for playing.
  • KIX Drake
    KIX Drake
    KIXEYE Community Manager
    Joined Mar 2014 Posts: 1,557
    I appreciate everyone's feedback here, and to be clear, being able to use subs as guards will not be coming back. We understand this will frustrate players, but it was just overly abused by players that it literally made a key mechanic of the game, PvP, inaccessible. Again, we appreciate the feedback, but this was just too abused to be allowed to continue.
  • Moriarty33
    Moriarty33
    Greenhorn
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 24
    KIX Drake said:
    I appreciate everyone's feedback here, and to be clear, being able to use subs as guards will not be coming back. We understand this will frustrate players, but it was just overly abused by players that it literally made a key mechanic of the game, PvP, inaccessible. Again, we appreciate the feedback, but this was just too abused to be allowed to continue.
    There ya go again...how is using a hull as designed by KIxeye, that does what Kixeye designed it to do become an abuse or exploit? This is just a dodge for the failure of your team to foresee this usage, failure to foresee all the implications of design and failure to accept the responsibility for said design flaw. It would have been much less insulting to the player base to just say we screwed it up in design so it will now be changed...instead you blame the players...abuse...exploitation...you designed it....you put it out...players used it in a way you failed to foresee...your fault, not the players.
  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572
    those of us that don't guard because its a base hitting game don't see what all the fuss is about tbh.
    you trying to tell me your alliance friends dont try to guard your base at any given time against an active attacker?
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • Bin_Chicken
    Bin_Chicken
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2015 Posts: 202
    god forbid I should try and put words in your mouth, actually just saying its a base hitting game and that players shouldn't worry so much about ways and means to stop getting there base hit being taken off the table, embrace the bubble!!
  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572
    Nyction said:
    i dont think it was uninteded, you cant tell me no one at the office thought this would have been an issue in the first place, heck if i was working there i would have noticed this flaw from day 1 of conception,  but yes that sub never coming up while driven was a terrible idea atleast for the fact that it was able to guard bases, however now they ruined base defence for the rest of us who use other subs in conjuction with our conqs to have 1 line of defence before the initial beating our base would get

    If you don't mind my asking, what subs are even relevant enough to consider including in base defense (Aside from the Gatekeeper)? Ever since the pve number crunch, nothing is really worth putting in as Abyssal Torps are defender/underwater locked and Piranha IV has essentially no range.
    everything doesnt have to be about full on damage, there is also strategy involved when it comes to sub guards and if you read what i typed properly youd notice i was talking about a MIXED OUTSIDE GUARD.... wich is why i said in conjunction with conqs, utility plays a big part in defence outside and inside a base.
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • Nyction
    Nyction
    Greenhorn
    Joined Feb 2014 Posts: 24
    Nyction said:
    i dont think it was uninteded, you cant tell me no one at the office thought this would have been an issue in the first place, heck if i was working there i would have noticed this flaw from day 1 of conception,  but yes that sub never coming up while driven was a terrible idea atleast for the fact that it was able to guard bases, however now they ruined base defence for the rest of us who use other subs in conjuction with our conqs to have 1 line of defence before the initial beating our base would get

    If you don't mind my asking, what subs are even relevant enough to consider including in base defense (Aside from the Gatekeeper)? Ever since the pve number crunch, nothing is really worth putting in as Abyssal Torps are defender/underwater locked and Piranha IV has essentially no range.
    everything doesnt have to be about full on damage, there is also strategy involved when it comes to sub guards and if you read what i typed properly youd notice i was talking about a MIXED OUTSIDE GUARD.... wich is why i said in conjunction with conqs, utility plays a big part in defence outside and inside a base.
    That still doesn't answer my question of what's relevant though, I focused on damage yes, but you haven't elaborated on utility. There's zero torps that have utility so that leaves depth charges and the muddle missile, and of those, the cryonic depth only works when things die and the muddle missile can only apply a 10% damage debuff with an aura cap of 2, while most conqs are running tac resist anyways.
  • DPR
    DPR
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 693
    I personally don't see an issue with the use of strategy in a strategy game. 

    Black water pirates will remember the big sector v sector brawls and the insane amount of FVF that used to ensue whilst trying to defend a base from attack the biggest issue with this today is the fleet repair times was fun with gunboats, BB's, seawolves and levi's not so much now when a single battle will give several hrs of repair.

    players are not online 24/7 just come back later.

    CrimsonTampon said:
    those of us that don't guard because its a base hitting game don't see what all the fuss is about tbh.
    you trying to tell me your alliance friends dont try to guard your base at any given time against an active attacker?
    i have an alli member who has put a not guard or snipe order on his base, personally i dont care either if i get hit i get hit best way to learn, the more damage i inflict on my attackers the better though 
  • Drax
    Drax
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 1,755
    this has been a feature of subs ever since subs were in the game. The difference with the old subs was they surfaced so you had to use some skill to time your surfacing to be away from or far enough away that they could not tag you while on the surface.

    But driving to prevent the attack always been in the game.

    The fun bit for the attacker was guessing where the defender might be heading and trying to time it so you were close enough when they did surface in order to sink them. 

    Harrower you basically needed to wait until someone was off-line so hit the thing to sink it, when it just sits on the surface you got a chance. 

    The game has moved so much from the early days, what was PvP is now just PvW - one party is always just watching, a spectator only. 

    the only true PvP these days is fleet v fleet on the map battle. The rest has just been eroded over time, ships in base don't move under control any more due to cries of your controlling or driving. So defender are made static or if they do move then they move to AI rather than any individuals input. For the attacker it is a pretty safe environment to be in, you know what the AI is going to do, it will chase the first ship it comes into contact with. So either keep running of use it as a decoy so the rest of your fleet pick them off - there is no risk they will turn and attack the other ships in the fleet unless the decoy dies. The defender does not have many options at all to engage.

    the game is more like Base attackers v's base designers - it is a huge leap away from the strategy game we once knew. IMHO 
    ...
  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572
    Every feature has a way to be abused. Look at the medal system. People STILL abuse it. Because there are ALWAYS people that want to find a way to beat the system for their own benefit. There is nothing wrong with using skill in a game to your advantage. But, if you use an exploit to make the game impossible to play for others-well, this is the same as cheating. Look at it from OTHERS point of view other then your own. It's not real life and your life doesn't depend on it. It's a **** game. You don't need to cheat or use an exploit to win. If you do, you should re-evaluate your reason for playing.
    medals are useless though so its hardly an exploit.
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572
    This is not "Kixeye hates defenders, guard fleets, subs, or fun"

    Please understand two things.

    1) Most active PvP players both attack AND defend
    2) If the Harrower is moving, it can not be detected, shot at, surfaced, or damaged in any way.

    Second points first. This was a clear unintended feature. I hope people can see that having something that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to attack a base if ANYONE in the alliance is on and sets 4 waypoints and drives in a circle should not happen. I am all for guarding and defending bases, but when you create an infinite loop that prevent an attempt at even hitting the base something needs to change

    On the first point, active PvP players in big alliances were guarding bases with a Harrower meaning it was literally impossible to attack them. I am also sure some were violating the TOS and account sharing so there was a guard on and a player online 24/7. Most PvP players both attack and defend. It is not about attackers vs defenders, we do BOTH and most of us want it to be balanced 50/50 (although of course I would like to win 75% of attacks and 75% of defenses on average the two need to add to 100%). Nobody likes "click the back of the base and win" fleets, just the same as nobody likes "bases that are literally unbeatable by any fleet". 

    My suggestion was to make the Harrower only be able to deep dive if the enemy fleet as a defender in it, or only while attacking bases. This would mean it can keep it's originally use (although the impact of both my suggestion and the one Kixeye took are the same: Harrower is a prep ship vs the Overlord NotCarrier and can't be used in an infinite loop that prevents combat). 

    If you think a ship that can be driven in a circle and prevents any combat from even starting in an infinite loop is a good thing, you're a lot cause. 
    im going to fix your grammar error since you like to fix mines on discord alot....  
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572
    Every feature has a way to be abused. Look at the medal system. People STILL abuse it. Because there are ALWAYS people that want to find a way to beat the system for their own benefit. There is nothing wrong with using skill in a game to your advantage. But, if you use an exploit to make the game impossible to play for others-well, this is the same as cheating. Look at it from OTHERS point of view other then your own. It's not real life and your life doesn't depend on it. It's a **** game. You don't need to cheat or use an exploit to win. If you do, you should re-evaluate your reason for playing.
    up until just recently there seemed to have been an exploit with conquerer hulls with turret defence that applied its resistance against outpost gus so attackers were using an exploit for years while hitting bases. it was just fixed this last update
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  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572
    Nyction said:
    Nyction said:
    i dont think it was uninteded, you cant tell me no one at the office thought this would have been an issue in the first place, heck if i was working there i would have noticed this flaw from day 1 of conception,  but yes that sub never coming up while driven was a terrible idea atleast for the fact that it was able to guard bases, however now they ruined base defence for the rest of us who use other subs in conjuction with our conqs to have 1 line of defence before the initial beating our base would get

    If you don't mind my asking, what subs are even relevant enough to consider including in base defense (Aside from the Gatekeeper)? Ever since the pve number crunch, nothing is really worth putting in as Abyssal Torps are defender/underwater locked and Piranha IV has essentially no range.
    everything doesnt have to be about full on damage, there is also strategy involved when it comes to sub guards and if you read what i typed properly youd notice i was talking about a MIXED OUTSIDE GUARD.... wich is why i said in conjunction with conqs, utility plays a big part in defence outside and inside a base.
    That still doesn't answer my question of what's relevant though, I focused on damage yes, but you haven't elaborated on utility. There's zero torps that have utility so that leaves depth charges and the muddle missile, and of those, the cryonic depth only works when things die and the muddle missile can only apply a 10% damage debuff with an aura cap of 2, while most conqs are running tac resist anyways.
    im not giving you my defence secrets lol
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • Bin_Chicken
    Bin_Chicken
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2015 Posts: 202

    im going to fix your grammar error since you like to fix mines on discord alot....  
    really should look after your own back yard lmao
  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572
    KIX Drake said:
    I appreciate everyone's feedback here, and to be clear, being able to use subs as guards will not be coming back. We understand this will frustrate players, but it was just overly abused by players that it literally made a key mechanic of the game, PvP, inaccessible. Again, we appreciate the feedback, but this was just too abused to be allowed to continue.
    Boo your killing creativity with every update. The simple solution was to stop subs with deep dive from guarding the base, youve ruined strategy for the rest of us who mixed in some subs with our conqs to help defend. your team needs to start thinking how your ideas will affect certain aspects of the game before hand so you dont mess it up for half or more of the community.
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • BlackFirePheonix
    BlackFirePheonix
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 572

    im going to fix your grammar error since you like to fix mines on discord alot....  
    really should look after your own back yard lmao
    oh i know i dont spell well and i mention it alot, derpy just likes to correct some of my words so i did the same for once  :3 
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • ZoneTan
    ZoneTan
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2018 Posts: 274
    god forbid I should try and put words in your mouth, actually just saying its a base hitting game and that players shouldn't worry so much about ways and means to stop getting there base hit being taken off the table, embrace the bubble!!
    Those of us who are all about defence do care when certains means of defending our bases gets removed or changed, the harrower while i do agree was a terribly thought out hull and should have been thoroughly tested was not and should not have been allowed to guard bases. However prohibiting other subs that do not " deep dive " if a terrible idea, it takes from the strategy that many of us have come to use to get atleast a slight edge over attackers. I used to use a lurker sub as my flagship and would often times add other hulls to the mix to keep my enemy guessing to wich i would then cover with a megaship to keep my enemies from tagging my outer guard with interceptor fleets wich conquerors and defender were no match against at the time. Most other ships that many players or myself would use as the flagship to the outer guard were too large to hide behind a megaship and would then be hit by the interceptors. Now we are back to square one and attackers have an even bigger advantage than before. All defenders ask is more fairness when it comes to game play wich is dictated as PvP wich really only benefit the attackers most of the time. If they barred all deep dive subs from guarding that would have solved the issue, stopping other subs just castrated a defenders chances at creative defence strategies.
    image
  • Bin_Chicken
    Bin_Chicken
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2015 Posts: 202
    good story bro.
  • MillionDlrBil
    MillionDlrBil
    Moderator
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 1,784
    The Harrower wasn't a creative strategy, it was a 1 man army that stopped hitting entirely. 

    The feedback from this post is well noted, thank you. As such I'm closing it as it's going off track. 
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