Moving Into Tier 9 Discussion Thread

Frankv
Frankv
Strike-force Captain
Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 895
I'd like to make a discussion thread where we share our ideas about the latest DEV Diary.

id like to discuss some of the points made, and maybe others feel like giving the last of feedback towards T9 and how this was addressed. id like to go trough every subject CM Jackson went trough.

Succeses:

''We were especially pleased with the results of flattening repair costs on hulls since that encouraged more experimentation''
- does this mean the new T9 ships wil also be a flat 2 hours repair? or will we increase this number? 2 hours flat seems like a good repair time for new tech. even if hat would mean T8 will still be 2 hours per hull (for now until T10 will come out)


''We heard a lot of feedback that while recent targets were tricky to learn, having to make decisions and solve a puzzle was a lot more fun than grinding through targets.....''
- Grinding has been a big part of vega since blueprint mechanics came out. but got worse when token targets came into play. We hope this means that we dont have to farm 1000 pieces for a hull with an average drop rate of 6 per hit. My guess is that we rather see a fixed drop value and a fixed max tokens needed (say we need 1000 drop is 10 pieces per hit) and 100 hits for a target is still a lot when the target requires a specific fleet to get it.

''.....That is going to be our guiding ideology moving forward.''

- everyone likes this line in particular. 



RPS system:

''While the RPS system gave clear strengths and weaknesses for each faction, we received feedback that people didn’t feel empowered to make real choices that mattered.''
-This is true, a lot of ships got their builds defined pretty quickly and not many changes were needed to see some builds were stronger. thus neglecting experimenting further with some hulls.

''In practice, we heard combat was often a foregone conclusion decided before the battle even started.''
-Pvp got less interesting also because the higher MK hull you have, the bonuses would outplay any lower MK version. thats a good thing, only problem is that the power difference is too big. resulting in a certain loss when people did not have their hulls MKE. being a slightly better pilot was not rewarded due the sheer lack of power. Example would be MK4 val fleet VS MKE val fleet.

''We are returning to a single NPC faction, with its own enemy-exclusive hulls.''
- big Like on my part. this might give us more of a feeling from the REBEL days. where everyone had one faction to play with. my concern here is balance. although each ship has its good perks in PVE, often 1 or 2 classes in Vega seem to power the PvP section. i think its a good moment to say that we would like to see piloting skill rewarded. concern: T8 is still in play. maybe these T8 ships are still too powerful? also nerfing T8 is not really an option. i hope balance can be found.

Fleet Identity:

personally i liked that the 3 T7/T8 factions had their own strengths and special abilities. indeed practice showed some ships rendered useless. yet again. balance is key. i feel like no ship created should be useless. they all need at least a purpose. may is be specific ships for PvE, well thats ok as long as you wont get attacked by a player.
the most important balance is within the PvP section of course. more then 1 type of ship should rule the battlefield.


Customization:

this spoke for itself. builds becoming ''META'' is almost never good. more then one build within a class should be good enough to compete, i think kixeye was on a good path deciding DPS values of different weapons should be the same. overall it was not perfect in T8. but this trend could continue with the right type of weapons and special abilities. (rather not focus a ship on a weapon like the altarian battle-cruiser having vulcan weapon abilities)

- one point that was especially fun for me was not the weapons, or the ships themselves. i really like the ships customization when it comes to paint jobs. these credits were a fun aspect for me since it gives a nice and personal look to ships. altough i would like to see more variety and more ''free'' or rather collectible paints. that doesnt mean kix should not offer skins and paints trough coins. it only mean I WANT MOAR..... :)

Combat Length:

''We’ve been making various changes through the last few months, most recently by adjusting fleet level gating.''
- I have to address that adjusting gating values did not really help so far. changing the gating is one thing.... but then please revisit all the Tech XP values!!  maybe make the decision that a ''META'' build (say the standard Val or BEHEMOTH builds) should increase in XP value over time. encourage people to either swith to a new weapon, or make a less wanted weapon less XP valuable. then and only then the gating rules make sense. because now a T7 fleet is approx the same lvl as a T8. and then a T7 fleet gets obliterated.... no fun

''In Tier 9 we are increasing defensive capabilities and increasing the time it takes to destroy a ship, without them becoming unbearably long. This should reward tactics in battle as well as allow for more diverse builds to participate.''
- Hopefully this doesn't mean a plain simple health increase.... but rather also focus on dmg to shipclass and on how resistance work in game and how we can personally adjust them, (refit times and more resistor tokens should be looking into for an easy resistance swap instead of a 2 days refit!!!) maybe implement that refit bay? lel?


THANK YOU!

-also thank you and the whole CM team for the good updates and dairy this season
  • Hound947
    Hound947
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 481

    I think the massive elephant in the room is the fact we have to grind for the the best hulls or wepons at any given time. For somone to sucessfuly make the most out of tier 8 you would of had to keep up with current meta meaning you either farm for the 3 days without sleep or just buy the things you need.

    I hope this next tier moves away from having to farm the following mk 2 for 6 ships is 120 patterns mk 3 is 240 patterns mk 4 is 360 patterns mk 5 is 840 patterns and mk 6 is 1500 paterns not to mention you have the RI weapons to farm aswell for the fleet .
    And by the sounds of the post I get the impression we are going back to the meta of what it was like when AXIS was introduced where our current hulls take a massive beating just to get somewhere and as for refiting fleets to combat the new ones that's gonna take atleast 3 months without coining so to close

    If this new tier is just like a new overpowerd faction with no real interesting and enjoyable mechanics and the pay to win system still continues well thats it for me im sick of spending money on somthing thats obsolete every month and I can assure you there are many more out there who are aswell.

    Hound
  • Frankv
    Frankv
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 895
    Hound947 said:

    I think the massive elephant in the room is the fact we have to grind for the the best hulls or wepons at any given time. For somone to sucessfuly make the most out of tier 8 you would of had to keep up with current meta meaning you either farm for the 3 days without sleep or just buy the things you need.

    I hope this next tier moves away from having to farm the following mk 2 for 6 ships is 120 patterns mk 3 is 240 patterns mk 4 is 360 patterns mk 5 is 840 patterns and mk 6 is 1500 paterns not to mention you have the RI weapons to farm aswell for the fleet .
    And by the sounds of the post I get the impression we are going back to the meta of what it was like when AXIS was introduced where our current hulls take a massive beating just to get somewhere and as for refiting fleets to combat the new ones that's gonna take atleast 3 months without coining so to close

    If this new tier is just like a new overpowerd faction with no real interesting and enjoyable mechanics and the pay to win system still continues well thats it for me im sick of spending money on somthing thats obsolete every month and I can assure you there are many more out there who are aswell.

    from what we could read so far is that they want to introduce new mechanics and more fleet classes intead of factions.
    if indeed the trend continues that we need to farm a lot of MK parts to make the ships viable then it has no point. some people are still bussy farming T8. this would mean they will get behind really fast and lose interest maybe? i think i will if that is the case.
    gotta say the mechanics for T8 were interesting so far. with ships that are fun to fly with. rangers did make me feel a little like i was flying friggates again.
    the real hope is that kix doesnt simply buff the health T9 ships have to make fleet battles ''last longer''
    and current repair times fixed for the ships was a good thing too. i think some of these points may be pointed out as good too.

    the best they could do is include more people in their testing program. id love kix to make a contest of some sort or anything so that even smaller/non PVP and maybe even new players make it into testing. this way they get more feedback on current development.
    untill now i have no clue how kix select their testers.
  • Hound967
    Hound967
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2019 Posts: 3

    The trusted testers dont get much of a say what happens to the content when there finished testing with it thats why i left the program. If your looking for insight of how tier 9 will look you only have to log onto battle pirates and look at there last years worth of released hulls 43million health for 1 ship is the solution to fixing the "timing" issue of battles being to short. The thing that frustrates me the most is you have 2 game makers Paul preace and David Scott who screwed there games up to the point where now backyard monsters doesn't exist anymore because it had content thrown and forced changes that made players angery whitch was davids game you have bp whitch is now riddled with so much **** its impossible to start anywhere Paul's game, Im not going to even touch war comander cause let's face it saying those 2 words just makes me laugh uncontrollably then you have vega for a point of time it was an awesome and fun game to play and then because those 2 **** there games they come here and do the same to this one its like seriously **** off and develop your own dying games dont come here and ruin somthing so many people use to enjoy but I guess at the end of the day none really cares what the customer wants unless there not getting payed.

  • Frankv
    Frankv
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 895
    regarding the new CM Dairy update about T9:

    -mind control? i wonder how the pvp region will be affected? if these abilities weigh heavy... im not sure how well players will receive it. teking over hulls and then still get them home with dmg on the ship you have caused yourself.....

    - more skins? yes. thsnk you!

    - commanders, they do really need an upgrade.... and that said i mean existing ones... hold off bringing new ones on the market

    -T8. is T8 considered older tech? is T7 gonna be? will farming parts for (orator, behemoth and segfault) become easier? less of a grind? i really hope so because farming for 4 days straight for an outdated hull will be a shame

    - halt on maurader tech: thanks. never liked them lol. but seriously i thinks its better to focus on actual new factions instead of rip off Maurader tech thats copied from existing factions. beside that a lot of tech like trusters is missing with maurader. at least they are not accesible ()voltaic thrusters for instance)

    make us proud kix. T9 gonna decise a lot for the playerbase's happiness. mind control doesnt look good to be fair XD
  • BatteryChucker
    BatteryChucker
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2015 Posts: 522
    All I know is do we have an exact date as to when all of the T8 stuff becomes irrelevant and all of the money spent on these hulls and deals becomes a total waste of time and expense?  Because this happens every time a new tier is introduced, it would make it easier on everyone if we had dates and times to go by...
  • Banshee333
    Banshee333
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2014 Posts: 270
    edited 28 Jul 2020, 6:37PM
    I'd like to see....

    • the end of the mark up system - can we just have the hull at what would be the elite level equivalent.
    • the end of collecting fragments for weapons, armours, shields and specials - please make everything blue prints that we can use over and over. 
    • reintroduction of the ship token riot every week - please click that button to activate this again.
    • Multiple fleet repair - when we are damaged can we click repair and all fleets repair simultaneously. Make it a mission to get this add on for the top level fleet bay.

    All the above are to do what I originally thought I was playing vega for. To get into huge alliance wars. I naively thought when I first started and saw these huge bases and big fleets flying out of them that if I get all the BP's and do well in the events to get the latest ships then that's it, it's all fighting other players from now on! How wrong I was. It's a constant tech grind.

    At the moment most peoples focus is 98% grinding those targets. Trying to get that mark up for a ship, fragments for those weapons, armours and shields that are so important. Everything that is realistically worthwhile is in some kind of grind target.

    Release the players to have fun Kix. Drop the mark up system, make all weapons, armours, shields and specials BP's and free us from the grind. Thank you. 🙂👍

  • GreatWho
    GreatWho
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 319
    its not only the lack of options that we only see the same builds of ships everywhere in VC, its the time/coins that is needed to refit the ships with another combination. 
    maybe a few players will make that, but not alot, so it will end up always the same... someone finds a good fit, that works good to farm and good to pvp and everybody will copy that with the time.

    you cannot really experiment with different builds, when you always have to wait days for one ship. you also need more ships with different builds to test the combination. the time to fit/refit is too long.

    dont get me wrong, i dont say it has to cost nothing, but the most players have a limited budget to play, and fit/refit is not the only thing that costs coins
  • dom.friant
    dom.friant
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,990
    Can't say I'm sad to see marauders go. If they had been unique ships I might have been interested, but honestly we just don't need two ships released per month, with one being a re-color of an older model. An occasional pvp focused "maurader" ship might be interesting, but not what we have had. If alliance war continues, maybe it'll go back to being a pvp event like it started as.

    T9 sounds promising...
    Because I like the Condor!
    http://i.imgur.com/80deZPv.png
  • Frogga
    Frogga
    Greenhorn
    Joined Jan 2016 Posts: 3
    Simple changes would make a big difference to the game. Daily missions (for amber) haven’t been touched in many years. Surely there is huge range of alternative options to have for a single daily mission!? Hitting x10 elite 45s/50s isn’t exactly engaging. Amber should have value to exchange for items, maybe for weapon fragments with the range from older all the way up to current day requirements.

    The escort bug with fleets being protected by the jump ship needs sorting ASAP. Maybe reverse the mechanics so that if say a group of 6 ships are being escorted, you can attack the highest level fleet in that group, not have to suffer a troll fleet which essentially is a cheat to not get your other fleets hit.

    Fleets which are ‘destroyed’ in Pvp should warp home immediately - I appreciate the repair discount but am not going to grind a fleet down multiple times, it’s very boring. Maybe introduce a 5-10 minute lockout so that fleet cannot relaunch if destroyed in PvP.

    Vega clearly IS a farming game, not a war game lol far from it. Grinding events for new tech and hulls, fine. But let’s go back to blueprints for ALL fittings, weapons, specials, armour. Most players if spent many hours farming for all the tech to create a complete fleet, have no time or energy left and switch off. It really is too much effort! 

    I’d like to see an option where a player can ‘switch off’ PvP combat, meaning you cannot be attacked. Your base should always be open, but not your fleets. You are free to attack any player fleets if they have ‘switched on’ PvP. It would have to be mandatory if you did attack another player, then for say 24hrs your fleets can be attacked with the option of opting out of combat locked out. This would allow those that want to PvP to engage those that want it, and protects those that don’t. Vega is a dressed up farming game let’s not pretend it’s not, and the majority have no interest in PvP merely to pew pew AI targets to progress. The less farming and grinding required by players to get stuff, the more energy and enthusiasm you’ll have for players to participate.

    Also let’s be honest, tier 9 like every other tier will be majorly op and will wreck everything beneath it! 

  • dom.friant
    dom.friant
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,990
    Frogga said:
    Fleets which are ‘destroyed’ in Pvp should warp home immediately - I appreciate the repair discount but am not going to grind a fleet down multiple times, it’s very boring. 
    I completely agree with this, and have said something similar myself. With all the farming required for this game I wasn't spend that much time on PvP before resurgence hit, but now it seems completely pointless. The only upside is that if you get randomly hit you're only out a few hours repair instead of 12.
    Because I like the Condor!
    http://i.imgur.com/80deZPv.png
  • Frankv
    Frankv
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 895
    Frogga said:
    Fleets which are ‘destroyed’ in Pvp should warp home immediately - I appreciate the repair discount but am not going to grind a fleet down multiple times, it’s very boring. 
    I completely agree with this, and have said something similar myself. With all the farming required for this game I wasn't spend that much time on PvP before resurgence hit, but now it seems completely pointless. The only upside is that if you get randomly hit you're only out a few hours repair instead of 12.

    and fair enough to say that warping home after your fleet got attacked is also a good solution when playing in big scale sector wars. people wont be able to spam.
    the only thing that would change in combat is that people actually going to use and plan javelin jumps from home towards the war. this means new tactics and how to adress the pvp in general.
    it will be harder to bring counterfleets too, which will make pvp interesting. usually you attack qa player and that player OR his buddies bring the counter. which means you win a battle. and immiditaly lose after. unless you are fast enough to engage in a new fight yourself. playing the endurance game instead of the trow your fleets into your enemy because resurgence is a thing....
  • GreatWho
    GreatWho
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 319
    Frankv said:
    it will be harder to bring counterfleets too, which will make pvp interesting. usually you attack qa player and that player OR his buddies bring the counter. which means you win a battle. and immiditaly lose after. unless you are fast enough to engage in a new fight yourself. playing the endurance game instead of the trow your fleets into your enemy because resurgence is a thing....
    i think thats the point of being in an aliance that a buddy can bring a counter to help/revenge you.
    you can guard your attacking fleet with a fleet that is potential counter to a counter fleet...
  • Frankv
    Frankv
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 895
    GreatWho said:
    Frankv said:
    it will be harder to bring counterfleets too, which will make pvp interesting. usually you attack qa player and that player OR his buddies bring the counter. which means you win a battle. and immiditaly lose after. unless you are fast enough to engage in a new fight yourself. playing the endurance game instead of the trow your fleets into your enemy because resurgence is a thing....
    i think thats the point of being in an aliance that a buddy can bring a counter to help/revenge you.
    you can guard your attacking fleet with a fleet that is potential counter to a counter fleet...
    yes... i know how the game works...
    i mean that with resurgence its more lame. at least it takes the aspect of losing/winning out of the war. i mean what is the real loss here? you get 70% of your fleet back... if its just me vs 3 other guys i could have just not begin to fight at all. because there is no punishment for the loser at this point.
    would i defeat 2 of the 3 opposing fleets. they would get send home. the last of 3 fleets would defeat me and i have to fly back in myself too. i would not be able to enter a planet because of this reason.
    i dont think you understood where i drew the line of a balances alliance war...
  • dom.friant
    dom.friant
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,990
    Frankv said:
    GreatWho said:
    Frankv said:
    it will be harder to bring counterfleets too, which will make pvp interesting. usually you attack qa player and that player OR his buddies bring the counter. which means you win a battle. and immiditaly lose after. unless you are fast enough to engage in a new fight yourself. playing the endurance game instead of the trow your fleets into your enemy because resurgence is a thing....
    i think thats the point of being in an aliance that a buddy can bring a counter to help/revenge you.
    you can guard your attacking fleet with a fleet that is potential counter to a counter fleet...
    yes... i know how the game works...
    i mean that with resurgence its more lame. at least it takes the aspect of losing/winning out of the war. i mean what is the real loss here? you get 70% of your fleet back... if its just me vs 3 other guys i could have just not begin to fight at all. because there is no punishment for the loser at this point.
    would i defeat 2 of the 3 opposing fleets. they would get send home. the last of 3 fleets would defeat me and i have to fly back in myself too. i would not be able to enter a planet because of this reason.
    i dont think you understood where i drew the line of a balances alliance war...
    I like your use of the word "lame"; describes it very well. Of course people bring counters, but instead of being beaten once by said counter, I then have to get beat several times until my fleet is actually dead or I somehow manage to escape. Talk about beating a dead horse and throwing salt on a wound. I'd rather go farm dreadnought fragments. But yes, being in a strong alliance helps.
    Because I like the Condor!
    http://i.imgur.com/80deZPv.png
  • Frankv
    Frankv
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 895
    Frankv said:
    GreatWho said:
    Frankv said:
    it will be harder to bring counterfleets too, which will make pvp interesting. usually you attack qa player and that player OR his buddies bring the counter. which means you win a battle. and immiditaly lose after. unless you are fast enough to engage in a new fight yourself. playing the endurance game instead of the trow your fleets into your enemy because resurgence is a thing....
    i think thats the point of being in an aliance that a buddy can bring a counter to help/revenge you.
    you can guard your attacking fleet with a fleet that is potential counter to a counter fleet...
    yes... i know how the game works...
    i mean that with resurgence its more lame. at least it takes the aspect of losing/winning out of the war. i mean what is the real loss here? you get 70% of your fleet back... if its just me vs 3 other guys i could have just not begin to fight at all. because there is no punishment for the loser at this point.
    would i defeat 2 of the 3 opposing fleets. they would get send home. the last of 3 fleets would defeat me and i have to fly back in myself too. i would not be able to enter a planet because of this reason.
    i dont think you understood where i drew the line of a balances alliance war...
    I like your use of the word "lame"; describes it very well. Of course people bring counters, but instead of being beaten once by said counter, I then have to get beat several times until my fleet is actually dead or I somehow manage to escape. Talk about beating a dead horse and throwing salt on a wound. I'd rather go farm dreadnought fragments. But yes, being in a strong alliance helps.

    this is exactly what i meant. i could not get the right words for it. you kill one fleet. 1 time. your opponent has more friends / alliance members. thus they bring a counterfleet. you have to witness 8 to 9 times how your fleet gets rekd by a counter sometimes because you cannot get home fast enough. usually because the enemy has a faster sector speed, or because a friend waits at the gate/planet.

    getting countered multiple times is exactly why i want my own fleet teleported back home after defeat. like in the good old days. defeat = defeat
  • Kifty
    Kifty
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 185
    If they made mk6 not a combat upgrade and put it back to the number of patterns needed in T7, maybe I'd come back, but I'm pretty much past the point of ever trusting kix to do anything sane again. What happened to ships not having enough max mass to be fully fitted with all RI? That made you actually have to think about builds, with T8 it was just "haha, you have to farm 200 fleets for fragments per fleet"(before they added armour RI because I cant be arsed to do the maths for it again)

    I actually enjoyed the initial T7 umbra tech, and Daemons were fun, but T8 just totally killed my interest to play. Not logged in since before altarian ranger. It just stopped being fun.

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