PVP Developer Diary (02/14/2019)

  • Yasu fumi
    Yasu fumi
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 68
    dont have to plan for anything else in pvp if you could not solve the 69 / ring of fire, whatever you create new its just another new thing for them to farm, that it's.
    Yasu
  • Breaking Barriers
    Breaking Barriers
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 900
    CM_Burny said:

    Commanders,


    Please check out this write-up discussing PVP in War Commander written by one of our Product Managers.


    Here at War Commander HQ, we’ve been taking a hard look at PVP; what we want PVP to look like and what is holding it back. PVP is something we want to be core to the War Commander experience, and something that we haven’t given enough attention to in the past. We’ve got a whole bunch of things in the works that will add more depth to the experience and change incentive structures.


    This blog series will try to lay out our vision for PVP and explain some of the plans we have for it. By opening up the process, we hope to assure the community that we are doing something and that we are taking this seriously. We’re also hoping to get even more honest feedback from our players. Every time we’ve held focus groups, ran surveys or released “fixes” we get great, passionate responses from all of you Commanders. Ultimately, this is your game. And since we choose not to engage in PVP because it damages you but not us (we cheat), all of you understand the nuances better than we ever can. So let’s get in to it! This is going to be long, hold onto your butts.


    The first topic we want to address in this series  is one of the ugliest problems plaguing a fun, competitive PVP scene. This is the behaviour known in the community as “69ing”. We know that this is a problem, and after many brainstorming sessions, chats with the community, surveys and false starts, how has fixing it gone? Not great.


    How to 69


    Before getting in to the details it is important to develop a shared definition of what 69ing is, since it has been confused with other activities (e.g. ring of fire) in the past. At its core, players have leveraged protective bubbles as a form of self-preservation.  To get these bubbles, players will tend to enlist a friend, a helpful sector-mate, or an alt account to hit their base. Depending on the time of bubble they desire, the level of destruction will be limited. Given that, we will move forward with the understanding that 69ing can be stated as follows: 69ing is the act of providing the longest desired damage protection to a friendly target, by dealing the lowest amount of damage possible.


    Why bubbles exist?


    There is no doubt that bubbles have a reason for existing. But are they good reasons? Does the bubble achieve its aims? Unfortunately, none of the original designers of the mechanic are still around to ask what they were thinking, so here is what we believe their purpose is:

    1. Allow players to safely rebuild after destruction;

    2. Ensure players have the chance to participate in defensive content;

    3. Ensure players have the ability to manage and use their base;

    4. Protect against unlimited, undefended farming while the target is offline; and

    5. Curb bullying


    We feel that all of these goals are absolutely worth addressing, and no matter what solutions we implement, they have to be addressed. But did the bubble achieve these aims? In most cases the boxes seem to be ticked. So maybe bubbles might not be the problem, and the real problem is the unintended side effects that the bubbles introduced. Thinking along these lines has led us to some new ideas.


    Bubbles and loss aversion


    Because infamy is an exchange system (that is, when you are successfully attacked, you lose your infamy), players are going to take advantage of any mechanic they can to preserve their status. The bubble became a rational and effective tool to employ in this cause.


    While people PVP for all sorts of reasons, some common ones include:

    • the shiny goodies;

    • the satisfaction that comes from being the best; and

    • The thrill of demonstrating your superiority over your enemies


    No matter what your motivations are, they are placed at least a little bit in jeopardy because of the chance of loss. You can lose resources, you can lose infamy, you can even lose the ability to use your base. To make things worse, these losses are almost completely outside the control of the defender.


    Then there is the seasonal structure. The weekly and end-of-season payouts are all done based on a snapshot, a point-in-time accounting, a single number that describes your place in the world and your worth as a Commander. An aggressive enemy group could easily undo all the hard work throughout the season in the 11th hour. With these high stakes, it’s only natural that a player would want to protect what they worked hard to earn, especially while if they were asleep or at work or whatever it is you all do outside of War Commander.


    Under the current landscape of our game, it’s almost as if there is no way for a player to feel good, let alone come out ahead, while not 69ing.


    War: What is it good for?


    This situation sucks! As Commanders of War you should be out there waging war all the time, telling your own story and showing your enemies that you’re better than they are. But we now realize that we are essentially punishing exactly this sort of behaviour. Like we’ve already stated, we believe that PVP should be core to the War Commander experience, so we are committed to fixing this.


    Some things we’ve implemented or discussed in the past have all taken the form of saying “no”. We’ve tried to create rules that tell you what you can’t do. We’ve come to appreciate that this approach just creates a sort of arms race between players who can best take advantage of the rules and those who are frustrated by them.


    Now that we’ve laid all of this out, let’s talk about some initiatives that we have underway. Instead of looking for a silver bullet, we want to think about what our goals for PVP are and then provide incentives that support them. In terms of 69ing, we don’t want to tell you that you can’t do it. Instead, we are interested in changing the things that make 69ing worthwhile. That way, if you want to 69 you can, but no one should feel like they have to in order to keep up.


    What changes are in progress?


    These initiatives are shaping up to take the form of more instant rewards, less punishment of defenders, and more rewards for defending. We want to incentivize defenders to give **** noses to attackers, and reward attackers for the risks they take on a daily basis.


    We’re working on new ways to score attacks, and making sure to appropriately reward the tough ones. Then, we’re going to make sure to tie some rewards to your actions rather than just your status. This means that the way you want to play is up to you, but for people who are hunting the biggest rewards will have much more responsive rewards.


    That’s the attacker covered,, but in PVP it takes two to tango. In order for attackers to go on a rampage, they need victims to crush. But, like we touched on earlier, being the victim kind of sucks. We’re developing a system that rates a base’s ability to defend itself, based on its repaired status and strength of defensive units & buildings. Then, if you are putting yourself out there as a strong defender who is ready to be attacked, well… it seems to us that you should earn infamy!


    We’re also looking in to how infamy is transferred. Consequences are great. We believe that the ability to inflict a loss is a very strong motivator on both sides of the battlefield (attacker and defender); it adds stakes to the exchange and makes the fight feel more impactful. Unfortunately, there has been a loophole based around how stars were awarded that allowed players to easily drain others of their infamy. We’ve recently changed stars to be awarded based on damage that is actually done in an attack. If you want to beat up on half-repaired bases and grind your enemy in to the dust, you still can! But don’t expect to earn a lot of infamy for it.


    The bottom line for all of these changes is: 69 if you want to, but if you want to get ahead you’re going to have to get out there and crack some skulls!


    What more can we expect?


    While this post was meant to primarily be about 69ing, before we wrap up we want to acknowledge that attackers have ran so far ahead in power that it’s time for some catch up. The Sentry and Lancer units both have had an eye towards improving defensive power, and without giving away too much you can expect the next Command Center level to continue this theme. Trust us, defense is far from dead.


    We have dozens of other plans in flight that we aren’t ready to get too detailed about yet. In the interest in gathering feedback and continuing the conversation we do want to throw out some teasers of the sort of ideas floating around.


    • We want to strengthen the alliance system, making it more consequential. Declaring war, creating peace treaties and controlling territories.

    • Engaging, quick, skill-based platoon vs platoon battles

    • A more active role for the defender

    Good Morning / Evening / Afternoon 

                         
                                                                     Great post. Very informative. Packed with info. Appreciate all the game teams hard work & dedication to solving & fixing problems.  Thank you all for the data & informing us all of what's going on behind the scenes to keep us better updated & prepared for what's to come in the future. 


                                                          

    Please Leave PVP alone. (RESET IT BACK TO NORMAL) (LEAVE PLATOON MORALE)


    Please focus on fixing the glitches, bugs & errors.


    Please focus on fixing the broken parts of your/our game.


    Please focus on improving the game we already have in place and not changing 

    settings which are not broken, which often times breaks other things causing even

    more issues & stress on the game team. 


    P.s. I always see people mentioning the "revenge option" of "Hitting a player back even 

    if they are inside a bubble", but I highly disagree with this idea & concept. If features 

    are ever added where people can smash another player who is already inside a bubble 

    from being smashed just earlier & repairing heavily, then I can tell you for fact I will 

    walk away from this game once and for all. 


    That feature would be the 1 feature that would totally stop me from logging into

    war commander ever again. I don't need 200 players smashing my base inside a 

    bubble WHEN I AM ALREADY IN A BUBBLE AND REPAIRING! 



    Until Next Time Commanders

    Good Luck & Very Happy Hunting

    Breaking Barriers





    Be Better Than Yesterday & Greater Than The Day Before That. Knowledge Is Power. 
    PAL Admin

  • FADIN76
    FADIN76
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 73
    well auto repair for base defender might help and a spec ops that can be gained by a mission or gold to have 1 day or 3 day shelter as in many war games will be nice too 
  • Rob de R
    Rob de R
    Master Tactician
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 2,410
    Again all nice plans, but i see what is still forgotten the difference between pvp repair and the repair of base defence. 
    The attacker gets a cost of max 10 gold as his units are in pvp, but the repair of 1 judge, a kraken, cerburus, caretaker and a bishop does take 14 hours or 24 gold. 
    Do you really think we are going to coin base defence to be flatted when you pop 10minutes later to have that same cost again? 
    Whats the fun of having base defence as you will be flatted anyway and the attacker will always have cheaper and shorter repair then the defender?
    You want pvp then base defenders should repair in the same time as the base otherwise pvp will stay death or the base should be able to do more damage without defenders then it would be a little bit more fair  
    You thought the imaginary wasn`t possible?
    You thought Scrooge was bad? 
    think again 
    lvl 46 now (april 2018)... lets bet .. how many years to 47? 
  • PhilipC
    PhilipC
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 52
    FBHO said:
    PhilipC said:
    I would like to suggest
    institute revenge atatcks


    where if I hit someone, they have 24 hours to hit me back, even if I have a bubble
    it is easy to code
    and it gives people a chance to  attack their attacker



    so if I go and hit 12 people



    they have a chance of hitting me back and taking what I took from them



    24 hours is too long though; 4-8 hours is sufficient. 
    disagree,  hit someone when they asleep, they wake up and revenge attack gone?  needs to be minimum 12 but 24 is  a great number



  • Yorkylass
    Yorkylass
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 41
    Infamy killed the game, Infamy introduced 69'ing.  For some the sky will fall in if they take a hit n' lose infamy which results in them doing anything and everything they can to protect it and that does not include fair play.  Is there not another way to provide rewards to players that does not involve infamy?  When I started playing the game many years ago you logged on and fought until you logged off, popping bubble continuously until you had nothing left to fight with or was logging off.   Having accolades and glowing bases is not what the game should be about, all it does is stroke the ego's of those that need that type validity.   Personally all I want from the game is to log on fight for my team/sector and log off.
  • xIceCreaMx
    xIceCreaMx
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2014 Posts: 27
    edited 15 Feb 2019, 1:10PM
    ...Just an idea in hopes it will spark better ones... 
    I belive in all fairness that a Defender should be rewarded infamy on a failed flat (3 star) At the very least the Defender should be awarded the amount of infamy that remains from the failed attack or atleast a % of it. This infamy or % should be subtracted from the attacker. This may make someone think twice before 69ing, may also elimanate the constant holding of a base as well.
  • FBHO
    FBHO
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 2,489
    PhilipC said:
    FBHO said:
    PhilipC said:
    I would like to suggest
    institute revenge atatcks


    where if I hit someone, they have 24 hours to hit me back, even if I have a bubble
    it is easy to code
    and it gives people a chance to  attack their attacker



    so if I go and hit 12 people



    they have a chance of hitting me back and taking what I took from them



    24 hours is too long though; 4-8 hours is sufficient. 
    disagree,  hit someone when they asleep, they wake up and revenge attack gone?  needs to be minimum 12 but 24 is  a great number



    How many get hit the instant they log off for bed? 
    How many sleep for 12-24 hours? 
    You snooze you lose...
  • ShotgunBilly
    ShotgunBilly
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2016 Posts: 452
    edited 15 Feb 2019, 1:40PM
    All the 69 thing is about is Infamy! Period! Honestly, once you get to 3600 for the 200K medals, who cares after that. You want to know what being over 3600 is all about?.....**** Fear!!
  • FBHO
    FBHO
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 2,489
    ...Just an idea in hopes it will spark better ones... 
    I belive in all fairness that a Defender should be rewarded infamy on a failed flat (3 star) At the very least the Defender should be awarded the amount of infamy that remains from the failed attack. This infamy should be subtracted from the attacker. This may make someone think twice before 69ing, may also elimanate the constant holding of a base as well.
    The problem with that is they dump their infamy into infamy banks before hitting so you'd still end up getting nothing.  
  • xIceCreaMx
    xIceCreaMx
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2014 Posts: 27
     A level 47 should do better in a level 43 base such as mine lol. I think as a Defender i should have been  rewarded for my hard work is all I'm saying.
  • Whiskey-Tango3
    Whiskey-Tango3
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 781
    As far as defense and the new command center release.... with all due respect we heard the same thing last CC release and bases still go down easily, why should we trust you this time?
  • HARDAC
    HARDAC
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 696
    edited 15 Feb 2019, 2:36PM
    What is wrong with this game i will address this from my view an why people walked from it an are. 

    One Kixeye took a simple game of get res level up base & units an destroy bases.

    Into gather Five types res thor oil metal blood thor an tokens (needed for leveling units).
    From one event An PvP & PvE to One main event ,mini base event, unit base event, new mega unit event,
    PvP event PvE event,

    From getting new unit an leveling up too getting one unit at a time at over inflated prices,
    during under paying out events ,

    Gathering res from a semi easy task to a bloody nightmare for those who don't live on line
    or have a magical base with self repairing units but roaches galore if you get my drift.  

    An last but not least bases with lil skill luck an the right strategy free repair too bases that can leave 
    You down for days unless you, wait spend cash an lots of it just because you may not have gotten the right unit
    from a laundry list of toys you have to get one at a time (that just really ticks me off lol)    

    Stuff becomes useless as soon as its viable without coining an if you do coin no guarantee it will either.
    For the latest an greatest new unit thats useless when ever you like kixeye .

    Customer support which ranges answers from your players which they give you ideas on why its not your fault or your SOL 
    or heres a buck fifty in gold go away to, no bloody answer at all kinda point less to why even try.

    In closing you took an simple game easy to play an learn have fun with

    Into a over designed over complicated over worked player base

    over power Creeped  monstrosity of a former game of its glory days 

    An for what cash hope it was worth it hope the flow matches what you 

    had prior to this (new & improved coke) version of this game.

    (P.S) To the workers designer programmers basically the back bone of this company its not your fault 
    you where just following orders an we know who was dishing them out .

    ???????????????????????
  • Rob de R
    Rob de R
    Master Tactician
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 2,410
    I have one final comment for the devs as they said nobody from the old team is still present, but how easy is it for you guys to start from scratch with playing and experience what players needs to go through to get at a decent level and units till they are being able to open thors bases , doing events... but that would take to long, wouldn`t it? 
    But when you you guys don`t know, why you don`t listen to us, we play this game now for 7 years... we telling you now for years how you destroy the game with all the attempts to make it better, daily you lose players, i am on the edge of saying i don`t care anymore as i have a fcking hard time to keep up and the fun part, smashing bases aint no fun anymore with all 69 or heave toons in a base or when youre own base get smashed all the time no matter what you put it...  i still don`t carry a goldfactory on my back, my budget has still be the same over those 7 years, i don`thave the intention to raise my budget for a game as i have more important things to pay, but you guys do think we all own a bank 
    You thought the imaginary wasn`t possible?
    You thought Scrooge was bad? 
    think again 
    lvl 46 now (april 2018)... lets bet .. how many years to 47? 
  • Tom3805
    Tom3805
    Greenhorn
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 3
     i see or read nothing about higher lvl,s attacking lowers....im lvl38 .aquire a little infamy n then here comes a lvl50 or even a lvl44...how u gonna stop that b ..seams to me unless we spend money to try n lvl up or buy units to be equal,,,,but a lvl50..seams thats what really needs to b addressed ...4lvls higher n 4lvls lowers on base attacks .than your own lvl..thats the biggest is lvl v lvl  u have no limits o..thats right only kix,s bases have lvl limits lmao

  • Caretaker666
    Caretaker666
    Greenhorn
    Joined Feb 2019 Posts: 10
    I think defending would be more popular if your defensive platoon healed seperate from your standard toons. Being attacked impacts your ability to proceed with the game given you have to stop repairing platoons you get resources with and improving units. A base platoon is a pvp platoon and should heal as such not as a standard platoon.
    You mess with the chicken you get the **** bok bok !!!
  • John_O054
    John_O054
    Greenhorn
    Joined Jan 2015 Posts: 10
    Burny


    1.  If you hold a toon and dont kill it u should lose infamy and the longer u hold it the more you lose so its a tradeoff it has to be enough to say ok this is not worth it.  that will reduce ring of fires

    2.  as for 69in  thats almost impossible to stop cos anyone can hold or flat ur base anytime if u let them so basically ALLOW REVENGE HITS is the PERFECT ANSWER - if someone hit u then u should have a REVENGE HIT even if they are in bubble or have toons holding their base.  This will soon put an end to 69 or reduce it significantly i think.

    3.  Bring back DROPSHIPS  (without the glitches) to allow to deploy even on top of a ring of fire

    thats my 2 cents

  • WILDNOUT
    WILDNOUT
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 1
    hey suxeye u want us to fight each other more, have less fracken events, once every 3 months, give us time to up grade new units do away with unlimited jumps, u jump to a sector u stay for 72 hrs. start there nun  nuts
  • mic45
    mic45
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 26
    hey suxeye u want us to fight each other more, have less fracken events, once every 3 months, give us time to up grade new units do away with unlimited jumps, u jump to a sector u stay for 72 hrs. start there nun  nuts
  • FBHO
    FBHO
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 2,489
    Tom3805 said:
     i see or read nothing about higher lvl,s attacking lowers....im lvl38 .aquire a little infamy n then here comes a lvl50 or even a lvl44...how u gonna stop that b ..seams to me unless we spend money to try n lvl up or buy units to be equal,,,,but a lvl50..seams thats what really needs to b addressed ...4lvls higher n 4lvls lowers on base attacks .than your own lvl..thats the biggest is lvl v lvl  u have no limits o..thats right only kix,s bases have lvl limits lmao

    Level 38 loses nothing when hit by a high level - just a 1-hour base repair. 

    Changing it back to a +/-4 will just kill the game.
  • FBHO
    FBHO
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 2,489
    WILDNOUT said:
    hey suxeye u want us to fight each other more, have less fracken events, once every 3 months, give us time to up grade new units do away with unlimited jumps, u jump to a sector u stay for 72 hrs. start there nun  nuts
    mic45 said:
    hey suxeye u want us to fight each other more, have less fracken events, once every 3 months, give us time to up grade new units do away with unlimited jumps, u jump to a sector u stay for 72 hrs. start there nun  nuts
    Oh look, a guy with multiple accounts spamming the forum. 
    Maybe Kixeye should look into these two accounts...
  • mic45
    mic45
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 26
    HARDAC said:
    What is wrong with this game i will address this from my view an why people walked from it an are. 

    One Kixeye took a simple game of get res level up base & units an destroy bases.

    Into gather Five types res thor oil metal blood thor an tokens (needed for leveling units).
    From one event An PvP & PvE to One main event ,mini base event, unit base event, new mega unit event,
    PvP event PvE event,

    From getting new unit an leveling up too getting one unit at a time at over inflated prices,
    during under paying out events ,

    Gathering res from a semi easy task to a **** nightmare for those who don't live on line
    or have a magical base with self repairing units but roaches galore if you get my drift.  

    An last but not least bases with lil skill luck an the right strategy free repair too bases that can leave 
    You down for days unless you, wait spend cash an lots of it just because you may not have gotten the right unit
    from a laundry list of toys you have to get one at a time (that just really ticks me off lol)    

    Stuff becomes useless as soon as its viable without coining an if you do coin no guarantee it will either.
    For the latest an greatest new unit thats useless when ever you like kixeye .

    Customer support which ranges answers from your players which they give you ideas on why its not your fault or your SOL 
    or heres a buck fifty in gold go away to, no **** answer at all kinda point less to why even try.

    In closing you took an simple game easy to play an learn have fun with

    Into a over designed over complicated over worked player base

    over power Creeped  monstrosity of a former game of its glory days 

    An for what cash hope it was worth it hope the flow matches what you 

    had prior to this (new & improved coke) version of this game.

    (P.S) To the workers designer programmers basically the back bone of this company its not your fault 
    you where just following orders an we know who was dishing them out .


  • mic45
    mic45
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 26
    u said it better than i could thank u, 
  • eric.ogle.1232
    eric.ogle.1232
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2014 Posts: 196
    plan and simple - give pvp to the ones that hit and let them keep it , dont take it away from ones that get hit , 2) repair times for toons should be no more then 9 hours repair for bases, at that time while base toon is repairing they cant be hit ( they are in a bubble.) if they hit while their toons are not repaired then that is there problem. the pvp awards need to be reworked - each sector is given top person award , the the top 10 in that sector then the top 100 in the sector , or the top clan in the sector with the top 20 in the clan something like that , more awards need to be given to us but as a sector and and best clans in the sector . went you took the top clans for the pvp season the only thing it did was to line with a few clans so if your in AAF or TP or or a few others you got the top awards , you just chance your tags at the last moments and put their tag on , well that was great from a few hundred but the rest got a few , it was not even wroth the time to fight to gain pvp . so start at the awards given first by sector , look we have 200 sectors at 1000 people , a few hundred get something the rest bust **** to get nothine but 6 blood , well 6 blood is nothing , it takes 55 blood to level up a hero , how many years is that going to be ? to get them leveled up ? so its way to slow so is it worth it ? think about that while your changing the pvp things around. i do like the time that you took today to post this , but ready you need to look at the awards we get , increase them and more will play. you need to make changes that is for sure but awards need to be there for us so we all feel good about playing war.best regards.
  • Tom3805
    Tom3805
    Greenhorn
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 3
    edited 16 Feb 2019, 2:04AM
    FBHO says lowers lose nothing ,,bullshit ,i lost over 100infamy 250 to b exzack ,,,and a 12hr base toon repair  ..o boy i keep my oil n metal  ..yeahaaa .think i lost quite a bit from a lvl50..no way of revenge attack ..would just have another toon to repair.o i forgot to mention the 2,000pluss honnor points i lost this last event from lvl44 to lvl50..he says we lose nothing  ....this game is a joke..all about the dollars ....y else would a lvl50 down to low lvl40,**** 15/20 lvls lower than them ...soft target for high rewards   ..u say lvl controll would kill the game ,,thats y clans r created for ..so your lowers have targets as well... kind of evens out the playing feild...not rocket science ...  

  • jackson peters
    jackson peters
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2018 Posts: 33
    FBHO said:
    Tom3805 said:
     i see or read nothing about higher lvl,s attacking lowers....im lvl38 .aquire a little infamy n then here comes a lvl50 or even a lvl44...how u gonna stop that b ..seams to me unless we spend money to try n lvl up or buy units to be equal,,,,but a lvl50..seams thats what really needs to b addressed ...4lvls higher n 4lvls lowers on base attacks .than your own lvl..thats the biggest is lvl v lvl  u have no limits o..thats right only kix,s bases have lvl limits lmao

    Level 38 loses nothing when hit by a high level - just a 1-hour base repair. 

    Changing it back to a +/-4 will just kill the game.
    pls recheck your facts as a lvl 36 I lose in excess of 120 to lvl 46 and 192 plus to a lvl 43 if I wasnt so tech deficient I would be able to post dozens of attacks by high lvls where I loose Infamy, honor, res and thor


  • Tom3805
    Tom3805
    Greenhorn
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 3
    edited 16 Feb 2019, 4:05AM
    i can not access my attack log..u kno kix clitches n all..but the fact is i lost over 200infamy  ..n  jackson  .. the facts r we do lose from higher lvls untouchable by us, unless we spend money  ..so FBHO to say lose nothing and 1hr base repair is bullshit.
  • SCRUB_LORD
    SCRUB_LORD
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 158

    Get rid of bubbles...and while your at it, Depots as well.

  • whowhy
    whowhy
    Greenhorn
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 8
    CM_Burny said:ddg

    Commanders,


    Please check out this write-up discussing PVP in War Commander written by one of our Product Managers.


    Here at War Commander HQ, we’ve been taking a hard look at PVP; what we want PVP to look like and what is holding it back. PVP is something we want to be core to the War Commander experience, and something that we haven’t given enough attention to in the past. We’ve got a whole bunch of things in the works that will add more depth to the experience and change incentive structures.


    This blog series will try to lay out our vision for PVP and explain some of the plans we have for it. By opening up the process, we hope to assure the community that we are doing something and that we are taking this seriously. We’re also hoping to get even more honest feedback from our players. Every time we’ve held focus groups, ran surveys or released “fixes” we get great, passionate responses from all of you Commanders. Ultimately, this is your game. And since we choose not to engage in PVP because it damages you but not us (we cheat), all of you understand the nuances better than we ever can. So let’s get in to it! This is going to be long, hold onto your butts.


    The first topic we want to address in this series  is one of the ugliest problems plaguing a fun, competitive PVP scene. This is the behaviour known in the community as “69ing”. We know that this is a problem, and after many brainstorming sessions, chats with the community, surveys and false starts, how has fixing it gone? Not great.


    How to 69


    Before getting in to the details it is important to develop a shared definition of what 69ing is, since it has been confused with other activities (e.g. ring of fire) in the past. At its core, players have leveraged protective bubbles as a form of self-preservation.  To get these bubbles, players will tend to enlist a friend, a helpful sector-mate, or an alt account to hit their base. Depending on the time of bubble they desire, the level of destruction will be limited. Given that, we will move forward with the understanding that 69ing can be stated as follows: 69ing is the act of providing the longest desired damage protection to a friendly target, by dealing the lowest amount of damage possible.


    Why bubbles exist?


    There is no doubt that bubbles have a reason for existing. But are they good reasons? Does the bubble achieve its aims? Unfortunately, none of the original designers of the mechanic are still around to ask what they were thinking, so here is what we believe their purpose is:

    1. Allow players to safely rebuild after destruction;

    2. Ensure players have the chance to participate in defensive content;

    3. Ensure players have the ability to manage and use their base;

    4. Protect against unlimited, undefended farming while the target is offline; and

    5. Curb bullying


    We feel that all of these goals are absolutely worth addressing, and no matter what solutions we implement, they have to be addressed. But did the bubble achieve these aims? In most cases the boxes seem to be ticked. So maybe bubbles might not be the problem, and the real problem is the unintended side effects that the bubbles introduced. Thinking along these lines has led us to some new ideas.


    Bubbles and loss aversion


    Because infamy is an exchange system (that is, when you are successfully attacked, you lose your infamy), players are going to take advantage of any mechanic they can to preserve their status. The bubble became a rational and effective tool to employ in this cause.


    While people PVP for all sorts of reasons, some common ones include:

    • the shiny goodies;

    • the satisfaction that comes from being the best; and

    • The thrill of demonstrating your superiority over your enemies


    No matter what your motivations are, they are placed at least a little bit in jeopardy because of the chance of loss. You can lose resources, you can lose infamy, you can even lose the ability to use your base. To make things worse, these losses are almost completely outside the control of the defender.


    Then there is the seasonal structure. The weekly and end-of-season payouts are all done based on a snapshot, a point-in-time accounting, a single number that describes your place in the world and your worth as a Commander. An aggressive enemy group could easily undo all the hard work throughout the season in the 11th hour. With these high stakes, it’s only natural that a player would want to protect what they worked hard to earn, especially while if they were asleep or at work or whatever it is you all do outside of War Commander.


    Under the current landscape of our game, it’s almost as if there is no way for a player to feel good, let alone come out ahead, while not 69ing.


    War: What is it good for?


    This situation sucks! As Commanders of War you should be out there waging war all the time, telling your own story and showing your enemies that you’re better than they are. But we now realize that we are essentially punishing exactly this sort of behaviour. Like we’ve already stated, we believe that PVP should be core to the War Commander experience, so we are committed to fixing this.


    Some things we’ve implemented or discussed in the past have all taken the form of saying “no”. We’ve tried to create rules that tell you what you can’t do. We’ve come to appreciate that this approach just creates a sort of arms race between players who can best take advantage of the rules and those who are frustrated by them.


    Now that we’ve laid all of this out, let’s talk about some initiatives that we have underway. Instead of looking for a silver bullet, we want to think about what our goals for PVP are and then provide incentives that support them. In terms of 69ing, we don’t want to tell you that you can’t do it. Instead, we are interested in changing the things that make 69ing worthwhile. That way, if you want to 69 you can, but no one should feel like they have to in order to keep up.


    What changes are in progress?


    These initiatives are shaping up to take the form of more instant rewards, less punishment of defenders, and more rewards for defending. We want to incentivize defenders to give **** noses to attackers, and reward attackers for the risks they take on a daily basis.


    We’re working on new ways to score attacks, and making sure to appropriately reward the tough ones. Then, we’re going to make sure to tie some rewards to your actions rather than just your status. This means that the way you want to play is up to you, but for people who are hunting the biggest rewards will have much more responsive rewards.


    That’s the attacker covered,, but in PVP it takes two to tango. In order for attackers to go on a rampage, they need victims to crush. But, like we touched on earlier, being the victim kind of sucks. We’re developing a system that rates a base’s ability to defend itself, based on its repaired status and strength of defensive units & buildings. Then, if you are putting yourself out there as a strong defender who is ready to be attacked, well… it seems to us that you should earn infamy!


    We’re also looking in to how infamy is transferred. Consequences are great. We believe that the ability to inflict a loss is a very strong motivator on both sides of the battlefield (attacker and defender); it adds stakes to the exchange and makes the fight feel more impactful. Unfortunately, there has been a loophole based around how stars were awarded that allowed players to easily drain others of their infamy. We’ve recently changed stars to be awarded based on damage that is actually done in an attack. If you want to beat up on half-repaired bases and grind your enemy in to the dust, you still can! But don’t expect to earn a lot of infamy for it.


    The bottom line for all of these changes is: 69 if you want to, but if you want to get ahead you’re going to have to get out there and crack some skulls!


    What more can we expect?


    While this post was meant to primarily be about 69ing, before we wrap up we want to acknowledge that attackers have ran so far ahead in power that it’s time for some catch up. The Sentry and Lancer units both have had an eye towards improving defensive power, and without giving away too much you can expect the next Command Center level to continue this theme. Trust us, defense is far from dead.


    We have dozens of other plans in flight that we aren’t ready to get too detailed about yet. In the interest in gathering feedback and continuing the conversation we do want to throw out some teasers of the sort of ideas floating around.


    • We want to strengthen the alliance system, making it more consequential. Declaring war, creating peace treaties and controlling territories.

    • Engaging, quick, skill-based platoon vs platoon battles

    • A more active role for the defender


  • whowhy
    whowhy
    Greenhorn
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 8
    ddg make it right and make up loss and tell the trurth

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