Dev Diary - JustMike

  • Red Sc0rp10n
    Red Sc0rp10n
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 591
    Add another opinion on these ridiculous "shard" issue. You stated that in skilled hands the Dutchman targets didnt creat much damage-the fact remained that the MAJORITY of players saw many hours of damage from the level 13 target. But that isn't my biggest issue-it's the SHARDS. In this last TLC (mini-raid) you had to collect FIVE shards to complete ONE item. I and most find this frustrating and silly. I would be OK if it were just 2 shards if you MUST do this-but FIVE? No way. Considering the time and damage it just isn't worth it for most players to do those  Dutchman targets. Especially for new content like Gale 4 and the anti Torp special. Please consider doing away with this kind of frustrating debacle in the future.

    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    Not nitpicking but some of these numbers seem off. I cant remember how many targets I hit but ive ended up with 7 gales, 3 cormorants, the Razor skin and 4/5 shards for the Batray. Not really fussed about skins but those 4 shards are now worthless unless or until they appear again in the game. I spent something like 10 hours driving over the event.

    The initial briefing used the word "crucial" for the limited tech so I put extra effort in to get at many as I could. You`ve twice mentioned here that a couple of the specials is a kind of benchmark. 2 for the initial "how much time was needed to get everything worth having" and a "couple of GDS4s in the upcoming raids...". If 2 of each is the level of "crucial" they are to the game, then I fear for those that didnt get any and wonder how bored the players who now have 30+ of each are going to get. Either they arent as crucial as the briefing made out, or players spent way too much time on the event when they could have spent that time on the TLCs that were running concurrently.
     
  • PoopFlinger
    PoopFlinger
    Potential Threat
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 73
    HTML5 sounds great especially to those of us in New Zealand who can't even go into the dock & swap a hull without the game crashing & needing refreshing which since the last update includes having to go into the settings & turn off all the crap we don't want like sound, explosions wakes etc....
    image
  • T00T
    T00T
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 1,643
    edited 30 Oct 2018, 5:58AM
    ...

    @Louis Kakascik - lots of solid questions posted here. Let me speak to the ones I can. Build times and repair times have come down consistently over the years. Not sure if you remember when repair average per target in the Raid was 1000-1200 minutes, but it was not that long ago. As you can imagine as popular a topic of discussion this in here with the players, that translates to a popular discussion here is in the studio. We talk about it all the time. The changes that have been made over the last 60 days are a result of these talks. The October raid and Flying Dutchmen saw very low damage numbers for skilled drivers. We saw it with our own eyes, and the data reinforced it. The rogue crews we agree are long overdue in getting updated. Not only the crews themselves, but the onerous process of rolling on them is sub-optimal. Sorry I don't have any timelines for you, but this is on our radar. The mechanic we are thinking about for rolling will save you lots of time and frustration. If you miss gear in Bounty/FM/TLC/Raid it is never our intention to freeze you out of it. In fact many players here ask for prizes to be added to the raid and we do so liberally every month. (you can test it out this week) Once the Raid prize list is published in the event briefing ask if a piece of tech can be added to the prize list. We do a poor job of highlighting tech/sorting it/and locating it.It is a pain point we are working on solving. As far as when is "Players First" done, it will never be done. It is a state of mind Our studio team needs to walk a mile in your shoes. This is what Players First means. Also on build complexity we are working at simplifying the calcs. Too many things not 100% obvious to the players. Some things coming your way to help you out I assure you. 


    First, let me say that I like that you post, and also follow up on the reactions to your post. We have seen way too little of that. Thumbs up!

    You said to challenge your statements, so here it goes:
    When was AVERAGE repair time per raid target ever 1000-1200 minutes? That equates to 16-20h!

    Could that perhaps be back when zombie subs were allowed and your stats don't account for the fact that players didn't have to repair them for more than 1s each before they could get back into battle?

    An AVERAGE repair time of that magnitude would either mean that the highest repair times were much higher (which I don't think is possible) , or that the raid was a total design failure (Scourge 1 anyone?), causing everyone to die in an instant.

    Using any of these things as an argument that repair times have gone down, is misleading at best...


    That said, I will agree that FD targets allowed for low damage numbers for players that knew how to drive their fully built fleets. 
  • Archangel_1
    Archangel_1
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 507
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

  • Lt_Caine
    Lt_Caine
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 332
    edited 30 Oct 2018, 6:03AM
    Thanks for the update.  Would like to add two items for consideration.  Please fix the Playback so it works consistently.  Important especially during bounty.

    Secondly, a very small item but would be handy.   When we hit 'Start Repair', could it automatically instant repair if under 5 min damage?  Would save us some clicks, time and carpal tunnel.  Same for 'Speed up'.  If below 5 min damage, could it immediately instant repair without further clicks.

    Again, thanks for the update.
  • mauijewels
    mauijewels
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 165
    Hence my fear is that your taking opinion from a small group of maybe passionnate players, but still a very small group of players which are most likely not representative of the entire playerbase. Hence, your doin exactly what the last team did, by listening to a specific group of players that didi not necessarily represent a large enough group of players.
    The biggest proof of that, is the all staff in work on a single portion of the game (aka PVP) when pvp is actuallly done by a minority of the players base. Most player either cant afford (wether it money or time wise) to participate in pvp. Best proof is bounty, which many call a PVP-PVE event. It seem that PVE issue have taken a back burner position to the PVP mess, even tho it not done by a large majority of the player base.


    PVP is what battle pirates is about. The pve part of it we also do so we can keep current.. but I do not think that the ones who prefer pvp are the minority. And bounty is both pvp and pve. 

  • Sputnik001
    Sputnik001
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 2,502
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
  • Raven Branwen
    Raven Branwen
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 108
    edited 30 Oct 2018, 12:15PM
    i returned to the game in 2017 ofter pausing from 2012. and i still like it.
    in fact it is an incredible game. name me one browsergame, that runs 8 years, is constantly evolving and improving and still attracting new players ?

    some people are always complaining. to hard, to easy ... nothing can be right for everyone.

    but in the end, BP is a gem of a game,
    and what i value most is: pay-to-win doesnt work, but you can invest money, if you want slightly easier playing.
    you can play this game without spending any money and still be a top dog, few games reach that fine balance.
    i for myself am not big coiner, but i buy gold now and then, just to support kix, who do a marvelous job. of course it is not perfect, but a marvellous job in comparison to all the other browser games out there.
    i know much better games out there. [Mod edit: Personal attacks are not allowed on the forums.]
  • Dazandren
    Dazandren
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,456
    i'm really happy to hear the size of the world map targets will be reduced, as they overlap so badly now (thinking forsaken mission targets especially) they are very difficult at times to see and target.

    however, that being said, i'm a bit concerned about being able to read the print below each target.  i'm guessing that as the target is reduced so will it's moniker.

    i don't know if it would be feasible, but for the sight challenged among us (like me!), would it be possible to have a small pop up appear with the name only as you move the cursor over it without having to click on each target to see what it is?
    image
  • michael_ v
    michael_ v
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 503
    the only thing  that u have done that i liked was the 4 month raid and u killed that straight away,as or player experience can u say over kill,way to much content should be a game not a job and thats how u have made it feel like a job , and seems like most things that players like  u kill .i would say u are clueless when when it comes to player base, good luck getting new players all i see is old players leaveing how many more staff u need to loose before u open your eyes.p.s u might want to pull your head out of your arse before u open your eyes
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
    it was easier to get instant repair with bats than razors.
  • michael_ v
    michael_ v
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 503
    edited 30 Oct 2018, 9:23AM
    bort said:
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
    it was easier to get instant repair with bats than razors.
    wow i agree with bort i would not have built razors if i new then what i know now lmao we all know that 1 fleet is always better than the other  and from what i see razors are a massive pain in the arse to drive i wish i built bats first would not waste time on razors  

  • Dazandren
    Dazandren
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,456
    bort said:
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
    it was easier to get instant repair with bats than razors.
    wow i agree with bort i would not have built razors if i new then what i know now lmao we all know that 1 fleet is always better than the other  and from what i see razors are a massive pain in the arse to drive i withs i built bats first would not waste time on razors 
    six of one, half a dozen of the other.  meh.
    image
  • michael_ v
    michael_ v
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 503
    Dazandren said:
    bort said:
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
    it was easier to get instant repair with bats than razors.
    wow i agree with bort i would not have built razors if i new then what i know now lmao we all know that 1 fleet is always better than the other  and from what i see razors are a massive pain in the arse to drive i withs i built bats first would not waste time on razors 
    six of one, half a dozen of the other.  meh.
    sorry mate they are not even close with good builds razors sux arse to drive bats  are much better .same damage just  1 suxs 1 is good
  • Dazandren
    Dazandren
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,456
    Dazandren said:
    bort said:
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
    it was easier to get instant repair with bats than razors.
    wow i agree with bort i would not have built razors if i new then what i know now lmao we all know that 1 fleet is always better than the other  and from what i see razors are a massive pain in the arse to drive i withs i built bats first would not waste time on razors 
    six of one, half a dozen of the other.  meh.
    sorry mate they are not even close with good builds razors sux arse to drive bats  are much better .same damage just  1 suxs 1 is good
    your opinion.
    image
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    bort said:
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
    it was easier to get instant repair with bats than razors.
    wow i agree with bort i would not have built razors if i new then what i know now lmao we all know that 1 fleet is always better than the other  and from what i see razors are a massive pain in the arse to drive i wish i built bats first would not waste time on razors  

    to be honest, i used my razors for a far quicker kill. with midnight marauders and a half dead fleet it was just over 1 minute to destroy each 13. Yes i'd take maybe 10 - 20 minutes of damage, but that still meant that i could keep hitting targets until i ran out of free time without stopping.

    lower seat time was more important to me than saving repairs.

    admittedly my bats arent quite finished, but each target was going to take a fair bit longer.... i think .....happy to be proven wrong though as i didnt do too much research.
  • michael_ v
    michael_ v
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 503
    bort said:
    bort said:
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
    it was easier to get instant repair with bats than razors.
    wow i agree with bort i would not have built razors if i new then what i know now lmao we all know that 1 fleet is always better than the other  and from what i see razors are a massive pain in the arse to drive i wish i built bats first would not waste time on razors  

    to be honest, i used my razors for a far quicker kill. with midnight marauders and a half dead fleet it was just over 1 minute to destroy each 13. Yes i'd take maybe 10 - 20 minutes of damage, but that still meant that i could keep hitting targets until i ran out of free time without stopping.

    lower seat time was more important to me than saving repairs.

    admittedly my bats arent quite finished, but each target was going to take a fair bit longer.... i think .....happy to be proven wrong though as i didnt do too much research.
    try them both in ssrb or the raid targets or uranium targets then tell me they kill quicker 
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    edited 30 Oct 2018, 9:59AM
    bort said:
    bort said:
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
    it was easier to get instant repair with bats than razors.
    wow i agree with bort i would not have built razors if i new then what i know now lmao we all know that 1 fleet is always better than the other  and from what i see razors are a massive pain in the arse to drive i wish i built bats first would not waste time on razors  

    to be honest, i used my razors for a far quicker kill. with midnight marauders and a half dead fleet it was just over 1 minute to destroy each 13. Yes i'd take maybe 10 - 20 minutes of damage, but that still meant that i could keep hitting targets until i ran out of free time without stopping.

    lower seat time was more important to me than saving repairs.

    admittedly my bats arent quite finished, but each target was going to take a fair bit longer.... i think .....happy to be proven wrong though as i didnt do too much research.
    try them both in ssrb or the raid targets or uranium targets then tell me they kill quicker 
    having a quick look at a couple better drivers vids

    4 mins for a 100 and 7 mins for a  102 for bats with flag
    4 mins for a 100 and 5 mins for a 102 for razors without flag

    razors would be quicker again with flag.
  • michael_ v
    michael_ v
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 503
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
    it was easier to get instant repair with bats than razors.
    wow i agree with bort i would not have built razors if i new then what i know now lmao we all know that 1 fleet is always better than the other  and from what i see razors are a massive pain in the arse to drive i wish i built bats first would not waste time on razors  

    to be honest, i used my razors for a far quicker kill. with midnight marauders and a half dead fleet it was just over 1 minute to destroy each 13. Yes i'd take maybe 10 - 20 minutes of damage, but that still meant that i could keep hitting targets until i ran out of free time without stopping.

    lower seat time was more important to me than saving repairs.

    admittedly my bats arent quite finished, but each target was going to take a fair bit longer.... i think .....happy to be proven wrong though as i didnt do too much research.
    try them both in ssrb or the raid targets or uranium targets then tell me they kill quicker 
    having a quick look at a couple better drivers vids

    4 mins for a 100 and 7 mins for a  102 for bats with flag
    4 mins for a 100 and 5 mins for a 102 for razors without flag

    razors would be quicker again with flag.
    so pretty much the same now try ssrb and uranium targets at the end of the day razors pain in the arse 
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    Hi Michael nice to speak to you again my friend. The amount of engagement required to get most everything worth having, on balance, was about 2-2.5 hours of driving time. So that is 40 minutes give or take, over three days if you wanted everything (2 specials and 2 skins). If you didn't get a shard you could have gotten a decent amount of premium resources. For as good as the specials are that feels like a fair trade. The issue most people had was the level of grind to get there (80 battles is a lot, especially compared to the elite targets in the raid with a 5 minute TTK on average per set). And yes players in the 13 target that started off seeing over an hour damage per run got their runs down to less than 5 minutes with practice and good execution. On the sharding, we continue to test and tune distribution methods and it's impact on player behavior. We didn't do it just because. The thing you have to understand is that there are no random acts of content/tuning in this game. We are always trying to learn all the time. Throw a couple of GDS 4's on your gear and let me know about how much less explosive damage you take in the upcoming raids and what not. 
    KJM - Concerning the bolded part of the quotation...you obviously see data that we don't.  All we can go on is our own experience.  I suspect, but have no way to know for certain, that IF there were less than 5 minutes damage per Dutchman 13 target it was with a fully built and ranked Razortail fleet.  I seriously doubt anyone could get near that damage number with a Bat Ray fleet.  

    I started out with hours and hours and hours of repairs from a 13.  The best I could get the damage down to by the end of the event was approximately 1/2 hour of damage per 13.  I used a fully ranked and fully built out Brennus Bat + 4 Bat Ray fleet and am a fairly good driver.  It was, and is, my opinion that the Flying Dutchman 13 target was tuned for the Razortails and not for the Bat Ray.   Net result, the targets were much harder for Bat Rays than for Razortails resulting in significantly more damage/repair time/coin for those who did not have a full Razortail fleet built.

    Yes, I chose to do it since it was posted that the Gale 4 and Cormorant were NOT going to be offered again for a long time.  Yet the implication was that they would be needed for upcoming changes to the FM.  Whether that is true or not, we are left with speculation and guessing....and that is something that has been a source of frustration for players for a long time.  Guess wrong, build what turns out to be wrong, and the penalty in time lost is massive.

    As a side note, I have found the Major Razor campaign to be way over the top in damage.  No time to keep plugging at it when play time/repair time was occupied with the Flying Dutchman, FM, and chores...all running concurrently.  Suffice it to say my Razortail fleet will not be ready by the November Raid event.

    Regarding damage repairs...it would be helpful if fleet repairs could be queued up to at least better utilize time.  Miss any time when a fleet finishes repairing and you have extended repair time on subsequent fleets enormously.  I have fleets that have taken more than a week to get to for needed repairs for that reason and because fleets you do you use incur more damage, thus further delaying repairs.  And it's unavoidable since so many targets are now "fleet specific".  Versatility of fleets is almost nonexistent anymore.

    I would totally agree regarding the tuning of the Dutchman. It was towards the Razor. I guessed wrong in choosing the hull and went the bat way, so I have a fulled built Bat fleet with flag. The best I could get from the 13 was 42mins.... I have a half built razor fleet, 5 hulls 4 skull ranked nd last at 71% with 1 armour apiece. 
    Worse result I got was 1hr 9mins, but average was below 30mins....best was 17min!!!! No way could I get that with the bats...
    it was easier to get instant repair with bats than razors.
    wow i agree with bort i would not have built razors if i new then what i know now lmao we all know that 1 fleet is always better than the other  and from what i see razors are a massive pain in the arse to drive i wish i built bats first would not waste time on razors  

    to be honest, i used my razors for a far quicker kill. with midnight marauders and a half dead fleet it was just over 1 minute to destroy each 13. Yes i'd take maybe 10 - 20 minutes of damage, but that still meant that i could keep hitting targets until i ran out of free time without stopping.

    lower seat time was more important to me than saving repairs.

    admittedly my bats arent quite finished, but each target was going to take a fair bit longer.... i think .....happy to be proven wrong though as i didnt do too much research.
    try them both in ssrb or the raid targets or uranium targets then tell me they kill quicker 
    having a quick look at a couple better drivers vids

    4 mins for a 100 and 7 mins for a  102 for bats with flag
    4 mins for a 100 and 5 mins for a 102 for razors without flag

    razors would be quicker again with flag.
    so pretty much the same now try ssrb and uranium targets at the end of the day razors pain in the arse 
    that's not pretty much the same. add the flag and its going to be close to half the time using razors.

    i dont really care about ssrbs. you can just auto targets for U, so seat time is not really relevant.
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    T00T said:
    ...

    @Louis Kakascik - lots of solid questions posted here. Let me speak to the ones I can. Build times and repair times have come down consistently over the years. Not sure if you remember when repair average per target in the Raid was 1000-1200 minutes, but it was not that long ago. As you can imagine as popular a topic of discussion this in here with the players, that translates to a popular discussion here is in the studio. We talk about it all the time. The changes that have been made over the last 60 days are a result of these talks. The October raid and Flying Dutchmen saw very low damage numbers for skilled drivers. We saw it with our own eyes, and the data reinforced it. The rogue crews we agree are long overdue in getting updated. Not only the crews themselves, but the onerous process of rolling on them is sub-optimal. Sorry I don't have any timelines for you, but this is on our radar. The mechanic we are thinking about for rolling will save you lots of time and frustration. If you miss gear in Bounty/FM/TLC/Raid it is never our intention to freeze you out of it. In fact many players here ask for prizes to be added to the raid and we do so liberally every month. (you can test it out this week) Once the Raid prize list is published in the event briefing ask if a piece of tech can be added to the prize list. We do a poor job of highlighting tech/sorting it/and locating it.It is a pain point we are working on solving. As far as when is "Players First" done, it will never be done. It is a state of mind Our studio team needs to walk a mile in your shoes. This is what Players First means. Also on build complexity we are working at simplifying the calcs. Too many things not 100% obvious to the players. Some things coming your way to help you out I assure you. 


    First, let me say that I like that you post, and also follow up on the reactions to your post. We have seen way too little of that. Thumbs up!

    You said to challenge your statements, so here it goes:
    When was AVERAGE repair time per raid target ever 1000-1200 minutes? That equates to 16-20h!

    Could that perhaps be back when zombie subs were allowed and your stats don't account for the fact that players didn't have to repair them for more than 1s each before they could get back into battle?

    An AVERAGE repair time of that magnitude would either mean that the highest repair times were much higher (which I don't think is possible) , or that the raid was a total design failure (Scourge 1 anyone?), causing everyone to die in an instant.

    Using any of these things as an argument that repair times have gone down, is misleading at best...


    That said, I will agree that FD targets allowed for low damage numbers for players that knew how to drive their fully built fleets. 
    that's an interesting one i think. i'd say for 2017 repair times for raids were pretty minimal for skilled drivers/builders.

    you'd probably have to go back about four years to get to those kind of quoted repair times. there was a time where as a non-coiner you really could not do the 'elite' or top level targets at all and get the top prizes as repairs were way too long for hitting each target, so we were stuck hitting the 'siege' or second level targets.

    Scourge 1 is an interesting reference too. Any strategic player simply put sonar on their subs and found that raid a cakewalk. It is one of the reasons why variety in builds has now been taken out of the game. They need everyone to be able to keep up, not just the strategic players, and why the game has been dumbed down quite a lot.
  • saiint.K
    saiint.K
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2013 Posts: 140
    KIX_JustMike  The FASTEST way to improve player participation and enjoyment of battle pirates is reduce build times of everything. For example, let no hull take longer than 7 days to build, no  Flag hull longer than 12 days to build, no turret longer than 7 days to build and no upgrade to take longer than 10 days to upgrade. Add to that a reduction of 50% in repair times on everything.
    Announce  that on here and you will swiftly become the most popular Dev in the history Battle Pirates with statues of your good self being erected all over the world  B) 
  • tamdhu
    tamdhu
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 336
    So I'm guessing that all these exciting options with T8 hulls are going to take careful design and building. Since the growing trend in ships is to buff other ships etc , with the loss of Huggy , when will the in game shipyard  in design mode reflect fleet builds rather than ship builds or do we need to all buy more calculators or go on spreadsheet courses ?
  • Milo-Ant
    Milo-Ant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 1,172


    @KodiakBear the player groups you reference should not scare you. Just the opposite. We do look anecdotal evidence tied to performance, but we mostly interpret data. We do not tune based on player comments, things get adjust based on analytics. This current preview I think is getting slightly overblown. The first preview was 10 players just to get a very small amount PvP players base hitting to see if we were on the right path. We weren't but we learned why in this trial. The second preview we opened up to a larger base of players (less than 50) to view their in game performance and got some helpful data. This second group of players aren't the "highest spenders" and they aren't "our favorite children". They are fairly conscious players that very fluent in building and defending. But to your point lets make sure that the players who are involved give us the most bang for the buck. We are going to be running a third preview where we invite in the top base hitters in the world to see they react to the changes. We will continue to tune and tweak as we get meaningful data. Now you could say, why not just start with the top players and that answer is not as easy and you would think. The preview windows are typically small and we do want to look at different player cohorts. As far as more surveys are concerned, we do like them but there is certainly selection bias to be taken into account. But yes it is a data point worth considering. Bottomline, I don't think we are missing any key signals because we don't run more surveys. If there are questions we are not asking that you think we should add into the next survey I would be happy to send your ask to the folks who run the surveys. In terms of content overload in 2017 we released nearly 50 new hulls. In 2018 that number is greatly reduced. We do try to make sure there is time to breath. 

    .

    @AnEyeForAnEye let me assure you and repeat the point is that we don't take any direction from players on what to do in the game on face value or in a vacuum. Ever. We know mostly what we want to do and why b/c we see the data and the the channels. What we do use the forums, Facebook fan page, our Town Hall group, The Forsaken Council, BP Elites, and Discord members for is to get color on a topic. We gauge ideas we are contemplating as good or bad or meh and get a feel directionally. Do some great ideas crop up from there? As they do here too. Absolutely, as there are some great players and great people there that are very sharp. We like the players on all channels and I think you and others would find it pretty interesting to join up if you are so inclined. I encourage you to head over there and ask around and see what people say. And hopefully take part in these directional conversations and share your thoughts and ideas if you are so inclined. This bears repeating - And for those wondering I will not post any topics of discussion on Discord without creating a thread here at the same time.  
      
    the problem is though Mike, this does give those players taking part a distinct advantage.

     take golden nexuses in bounty as an example, I could be wrong but I am guessing this may have been brought up as an idea in town hall, and it greatly benefits some of those members.


    Knowledge is power, so any knowledge up front gives time for those in the know to adjust before others even know what is happening


    Plus as has been said, some do it to further their own ends :(

  • BEETLEGUISEe
    BEETLEGUISEe
    Potential Threat
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 49
    So that means my quiet part of town is going to a wash with GOD DAM pirates..so peaceful doing some fishing and the BBQ on the go .injoying my old life. now your going to pack a load of chest bangers in this sector. who are going to wreck all the gardens here. not sending to an invite to the free beer now.. :hushed:o:)  loololollolololol have fun guys one word comes to mind """SARDINES""" haha
This discussion has been closed.