Official PvP Refactor Discussion

  • Nemo_Dutchman
    Nemo_Dutchman
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 198
    With the current state of the game, having the top tier turrets and no turrets is about the same, so why bother getting any of the turrets?
  • Dazandren
    Dazandren
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,455
    i think a method to incentivize more pvp play already exists.

    medals.

    make medals worth something besides bragging rights.  maybe make medals enhance something the way alliance points do, such as speeding up ship builds,  ship repairs,  base repairs, etc, etc.  the more medals you have, the more some function or stat is enhanced.
    image
  • Milo-Ant
    Milo-Ant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 1,172
    OK, I see you are bringing out the final T7 PVP hulls, 

    Unfortunately, will this mean that if we are away and miss the raids or Bounties they are brought out in, that we will same as before have missed the chance to gain these items?

    Because there are some things that have yet to make a second appearance
  • Milo-Ant
    Milo-Ant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 1,172
    You need to get the info out about PVE scheduling sooner rather than later, all my plans just got thrown out the window which does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling.  You've turn all of us to some degree into being focused on PVE and are now yanking the rug out from under us without telling us or showing us that we are not falling onto poison tipped spikes.

    Unless you significantly change the way base hitting works defenders need to move or have significant range boosts relative to conquerors.  Most base defense fleets are more conquerors than defenders and that to me says something is broken (along with all the other broken things).  Defending fleets chasing and slowing attackers is the only chance the defender has now.

    Bubbles are already broken and will get really bad with Outpost upgrade and its made even worse by us being forced to put other high health structures near the outpost to boost turrets (warehouses).

    Shipyard needs to always auto-repair with the way we have to try and plan builds so carefully.  Getting hit 5 minutes after I go offline really screws things up and most of us do need some sleep and to work to try to pay you money.

    PVE ships that get jumped by conquerors are toast and some people use the excuse that the game has "Pirates" in it to justify bullying type behavior.  With lag and everything else sometimes its just not practical to "exit hot".  Getting jumped after hitting a base is just more another type of PVP and I remember when comms would be alive trying to coordinate hitting the hitter and his alliance while others got ready for the rare chance to jump the fleet when it came out from a base if he didn't come out hot correctly.

    Build and repair times for PVP and PVE is completely out of control again and points required for prizes relative to points earned (in raids and especially in bounty) is ridiculous.

    You've identified many major issues but there are others like these and even more I'm not mentioning and the interactions are complex.  I hope you can truly improve the situation without breaking everything else.  Good luck, you need it.
    25% bubble pad is quite easy to do, I have 25.06% at my entrance...……………….. strategy
  • The Amazing Jeff
    The Amazing Jeff
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2014 Posts: 932
    Just hold up the bus a little. There is no problem with incentives. Alliance points/bonus already makes a big difference and bases is a nice alternative to the massive grind that is salv fleets at 5 a pop. Otherwise it's fun to just smash a base or two for the fun of it or because of a bit of alliance/player rivalry.

    What needs to  change is PVP balance. Bring back some strategy. the Paper scissors rock and the chance to school someone by driving your pants off is what makes PvP fun. 

    Don't make PvP another chore that will leave more catch up if you miss out. 

    And certainly don't add any incentives to snipe chore fleets, especially lower level player chore fleets.


    Balance the PvP to allow some competition - this hull beats that hull that beats the other hull that can smash a base but not that base... 
  • tamdhu
    tamdhu
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 334
    Looks like a good start , however I would like to know whats going to happen to base level as you point out this is a broken mechanic what discussions are going on to replace it ?  How is the imbalance between PVE and PVP in the realm of FVF going to be addressed ?
  • FelixHdezJr
    FelixHdezJr
    Greenhorn
    Joined Dec 2016 Posts: 18
    I think you should make it if someone likes to snipe fleets they should loose their bubble just like if they were attacking a base, for example if i have a bubble and go help a friend attacking a mega ship i loose my bubble so why not if i attack other people's ships i see no difference between the 2. Just my opinion.
  • Dan Stanley
    Dan Stanley
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 103
    edited 7 Aug 2018, 2:22PM
    okay, so this "rebalance PvP" is just a smokescreen to get us to buy more stuff?

    You tested the waters last week by releasing "for one week only!!!!" two MUST HAVE hulls in the FM at very high prices (relative to the rest of the stuff in the FM). I'm sure that triggered a feeding frenzy of coined repairs while people rushed like mad to get the scarce item. 

    I'm guessing it was a very successful tactic, since you're doing it again. This weeks FM has even more MUST HAVE items!! ONE WEEK ONLY!!! GET IT NOW!!!!

    We're sheep to be fleeced and you're creating another spending extravaganza, we know that if we don't get them now, it'll be months before they're ever offered again. 

    I don't know what the prices will be, but I can imagine they'll be a lot -- lower-capability players will be locked out, just another Feed the Whales tactic. 

    You've turned the FM into a mini-raid, raised the cost, added the the hurryhurryhurry aspect of the game, a never-ending cycle of stuff that we have to have. 



    And the new hulls that you're "rushing to market" as this awesome "favor" to us -- you've said they'll be top prizes, so I guess we're looking at 40 million cost, and locked behind a MUST BUY FIRST useless prize of 20 million. 

    With one hand you say you want to put customers first, but by creating feeding frenzys and charging extra-high prices, you're not doing anything that shifts the balance of player. The big spenders will be able to maintain their dominance in this Pay-to-Win game. 

    If you wanted to move in the direction of balancing things, you'd make the super hulls more widely available to all players, not just the coining elite. 

    And since you've told us to expect it to take about 4 months for real rebalancing changes to make their way into the  game, it's a sure bet all this new tech you're whipping us into a frenzy for wll be obsoleted by those changes. 

    #PROFITSFIRST#CUSTOMERSWHENEVER
    Battle Pirates: 5 minutes of game play, 12 hours of repair.
  • FiremanHawk
    FiremanHawk
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 840
    build, refit and repair times is the biggest problem in the **** game rather it be pvp or pve. and kixeye wont even talk about it. that alone shows me there is no hope for kixeye bringing the game back to the good old glory days. ive said it before. they simply wont do what is needed to fix the game. its pretty simple. but just like always they keep coming up with complicated patches instead of fixing it right. until those things are addressed the game is not going to get better and the players have been telling kixeye that for freaking years. falls on def ears. 
  • David Hersey
    David Hersey
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 35
    What a crock of chit your feeding us.
  • Carlos_DaPoof
    Carlos_DaPoof
    Master Tactician
    Joined Mar 2018 Posts: 2,104
    1.) PvP requires frequent repair - something that approximately 90% of the player base tries to avoid like the plague.
    2.) I see the push to get the remaining T7 items out in two months as another anxiety pill for the player base - "get 'em now, get 'em built now."  Then what happens? How long before the T8 items start being released? 3 months?
    3.) No matter what Kix does to make PvP more accessible - those not doing PvP now will still have a very long way to go to be able to get to the point where PvP becomes a satisfying part of their game and I don't believe as many are prepared to do it as they think they are.  I see a lot of players saying "gimme, gimme, gimme." Tokens, campaigns, the ability to use conqueror hulls in everything, etc.   A hull is nothing without the weapons, specials, armor, skill and experience to use and place it.  Building a ship or two without the proper stuff is a waste of your shipyard time and the tokens you've been given.  One or two poorly built ships isn't going to make you a base-hitting God or is it going to make your base suddenly impenetrable. 
    4.) I see a lot of vague statements in the announcement - statements that indicate to me that the development team has a vision, but not very many specifics.  We have all seen what happens when game stats are manipulated.  How many remember when deflection was first introduced and the Revenge ran rampant for a couple of weeks until they fixed the issue?  How many of those still believe they "nerfed" the Revenge?  I see current PvP players getting ready to blow up when their well built, heavily financed ships start changing over night.
    5.) "Giving PvP meaning"? Seriously?   The development team polled the players and this is what they came away with?  Players hit bases because they like hitting  bases.  They like breaking through someone else's well thought out and developed defenses. This typically costs coin or renders a fleet unusable for a day (see point #1).   Bounty, in the last format we experienced, is Krapp.  It doesn't represent PvP accurately at all.  Hitting a base with no guard fleet? Having to 100% it to get any kind of reward?  Not having to worry about being hit back? No.  nonononononononononono.   I gotta believe that the majority of those who responded to the poll are victims of PvP, not practitioners (not saying all, ya knee-jerking liberals).  They can tell you why they don't play it, but they can't really tell you what will make them change because they don't have enough experience in it to respond competently.

    I don't believe there is a way to compete - really compete - in both the PvP and PvE arenas without coining.  I understand a couple of GOAT players are able to do it, but not everyone wants to spend the time required to get to that point.  Not in this day and age.   Maybe allow an "opt-in" feature for PvP - where a player can choose not to do it and not be open to hitting bases or being hit.   Make the first choice free - like naming your base - and any subsequent change cost 100 coin ($10 USD ya cheapskates) .  Or make it like the faction changes - with a 30 day cool down period.  Prevent those who opt out from doing any PvP (that includes FvF as well, ya mealy snipers) unless they open themselves to the entire scope.  Make every raid a store raid with a PvP aisle that is available to everyone.  Players can use their PvE skills and ships to gain tech in PvP and eventually opt in when they have enough to build a decent fleet or two.
    " I see no solid discussion or argument. Just whining and name calling. You pose no reason or logic to back up your position and can't articulate a reason why "
  • Shadows-13
    Shadows-13
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2016 Posts: 866
    So whats going on with the raid. First we get a break and assault in August and September, now we got  skirmish in September where we won't have have the stuff we need to do it. Can you move up the explanation as this is just angering people at this point.  

    Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
    -Sun Tzu
  • SIF
    SIF
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 1,385
    • There is no value in the baseline PvP experience. Outside of Bounty, what’s the point in doing PvP? There’s not much of one.
    The value in base hitting is that it used to be FUN!  Before bounty or medals were introduced, base hitting was fun.  Having to stop short of howies because they would chew you up, but having to kill them quickly or else the victory mortars would get you.  I might be in the minority but this 'death by 1000 cuts' system we have now is just not my thing.  
    It's not a very reassuring statement they've made. It's almost as if they don't understand that games are supposed to be fun. Or they simply don't know how to make aspects fun and people have to be incentivized/manipulated into doing it instead. And I doubt they'll give any thought as to what these future incentives are going to do to the gap between haves and have nots in the game.

    I don't think you're in the minority at all. Battles limited to nothing but pass thru damage or over damage are incredibly boring and pointless. They've pretty much reduced 99% of all battles in the game to 1 dimension: projectile count, whether it's through reload rates or high salvo count weapons. The battles end up so long and boring with it appearing nothing is happening, people can just park and wait to see who wins. Speed and range have become marginal factors and damage type has become a non factor essentially. Accuracy and evade are about the only other factor that can influence the outcome somewhat. And it's still bleh. But Kix is happy. All that armor we put on to "achieve" a pass thru battle instead of a "one shot" one win for the "other guy" has resulted in increased repair times for everyone.

  • Adom_M
    Adom_M
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 552
    Back in the day, I was a frequent flyer where attacking other players bases was concerned, but back in the day, it was pretty much the only way to get res fast and in big quantities.
    Now days, I am rarely short on res, and if I do get low, I just do a couple of levels of a campaign= 500% fleet full, 150 mill minimum in res, very little damage taken.
    I haven't hit another players base for a long time, why would I?, I don't get anything from it other than a repair bill, medals are meaningless, and invariably most worth while bases my fleets will struggle in.

    I much prefer the predictability of the PvE game, take the FM as an example, the targets pretty much stay the same for several months, I learn the optimum path to destroy them, its a task I can do once I have got it right, that takes little thought, and that makes it perfect for when I get home from work tired and slightly brain dead. I just spend an hour hitting my chosen FM target, and at the end of that hour I have almost returned to being a human and its then safe for my family to talk to me lol.

    TLC's provide me with the PvE challenge, the brain teaser. I enjoy doing them when I am more compass mantis, working out the tricks that the designer has hidden away inside the many paths that can be taken.

    In all honesty its highly unlikely that I will become a PvPer again, possibly the only thing that would be likely to encourage me to start again, would be a conversion for medals to coins lol.  

       
    Never lose sight that this is a game, its not life and death!!!
  • Charlie Pugwash
    Charlie Pugwash
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 2,576
    My view is one I have mentioned before: They should just go back to percentage resistances for PVP, and use the class lock system to differentiate between conqs and defenders vs the other hulls. PVP will remain impossible to balance so long as a 1% difference in weapon damage can mean a 10000% difference in damage actually taken.
    • "Best of luck, Captains! And may the odds be ever in your favour..."


    • Raids Boycotted: Hellstrike, Lightning Carrier, Enforcer, Neptune- and at this rate, the entire upcoming Reaver raid series.

    • First played: Shortly After Revenge Raid 2

    image
  • Rick Swank
    Rick Swank
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 287
    What we need is 3 more docks to keep up with building multiple target specific fleet and constant refitting them.  Not one that require extra chores like getting Uranium or other special resources.  No way to keep up with them, unless you want to pay my mortgage.  lol
  • iwona.esser.1
    iwona.esser.1
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 1,760
    Angus_B said:
    the removal of "over damage, pass through, charged armours, titanium, uranium, base parts"  would be a huge step in the right direction and bring the game back to "me against the rest" instead of "me against the game, then, if I have time, the rest"

    But obviously that's a very basic view of the problem.
    Some of these things might actually be on the chopping block (though not all).  When we talk about overcomplication, some of the needless stat complexity is one of the things we're eyeing.

    Milo-Ant said:
    Dazandren said:
    i think a method to incentivize more pvp play already exists.

    medals.

    make medals worth something besides bragging rights.  maybe make medals enhance something the way alliance points do, such as speeding up ship builds,  ship repairs,  base repairs, etc, etc.  the more medals you have, the more some function or stat is enhanced.
    I cannot hate this enough

    Medals are way too easily manipulated, just ask any of the 'TOP' Alliances ( I use the term very loosely)


    As soon as you make them worth something you are opening the floodgates for 'less than fair means' being utilised again :(
    FWIW, if we do decide to make Medals worth more than bragging rights (which is on the table), we will NOT do so without also addressing the easy manipulations of Medals.  Our goal overall is to reward people for being good at PvP, not reward people who are good at farming lowers or their friends.

    What a crock of chit your feeding us.
    It is not chit.  We are serious.  You've got a new leadership on this project and I'm personally frustrated that the experience isn't better for you guys.  I know we can't fix everything in a month or two, but I'm confident things we will start making things better.

    My view is one I have mentioned before: They should just go back to percentage resistances for PVP, and use the class lock system to differentiate between conqs and defenders vs the other hulls. PVP will remain impossible to balance so long as a 1% difference in weapon damage can mean a 10000% difference in damage actually taken.
    The scenario you describe also occurs in PvE as well, even with the percentage resistances, where the difference between 95% resistance and 98% is far, far, FAR too important.  So, super sneak peak into the future: we're not looking at going back to percentage resistances right now, but we ARE planning to rebalance Deflection to avoid this exact problem.  We're highly aware of how absurd it is that such small differences have such gigantic ramifications... and we believe we can fix the problem with deflection itself.
    Love the sound of all of this reply. As to the first part of the reply, if you arent already planning this, you could easily just remove passthrough and make overdamage apply to everything.
    ------------------------------------------------------
  • David Phillips_77
    David Phillips_77
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 48
    Couldn't be bothered reading the rest of the posts but here is my response:

    Whooo down with fixing stuff - I hear you that you understand where some of the base problems in the game are and your desire to fix them. In the past a fix often breaks other things due to the age old coding of the game. What is your plan for making sure that does not happen? remember long terms players have more experience with the game and its "oddities'. Appreciate you cannot test every scenario but fixes and new features have a bad history of breaking other parts in BP.

    Whooo down again - you said you understood the problem with the massive release of new content and now you plan to release it all in a short period. I understand you want to get the full intended balance out and that is good but what can we expect in return? I see the turret build tokens in the FM - great but what about ship builds?

    As long as you understand that increasing base limit hit to level 80 is just a "band aid" then its a good idea, a more permanent solution needs to be worked out - fleet level vs tech level of the base has to be the answer but sure we all know that is not an easy thing for you to work out & code

    Why oh why "fix" Bounty? its the one part of the game recently that people have enjoyed, now you want to "fix" it, after 9 months of messing with it, you found a format that the player base generally liked and was prepared to put in seat time or coin - now you want tot change it - please be careful
  • Jaxom 917
    Jaxom 917
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 2
    Changing the font colour to Green on Black and Blue on Black, now means that there are 2 lots of chat I can NOT READ. at no point did I hear of any consultation with the players if any had eyesight issues that would prevent them from Using certain colour on Black. Iask that you please revert the Alli Chat at least to the colour white or provide a workround that will alow players to change font colours to a colour that they can read.
  • Evangelyne_A
    Evangelyne_A
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2014 Posts: 61
    im not liking what im reading from kixeye. all im seeing out if this is im not going to be able to defend my base for several months and on top of that my fleets are going to be getting snipped by lower levels that i can touch. dosnt sound like a very fun plan in my books. i heard one thing mentioned about base defense and that was a hull that is coming last btw. nothing about turrets at all. you can bet money this new attack hulls will be over powered as always so how the FRACK am i supposed to defend my base? guess kixeye forgot there are two sides to PvP
    you forget alot of higher levels snipe lower levels or go on a ( other sector sniping spree ) when someone hits thier base or fleet, or smack talks them from another sector, when that happens the person doing the retaliation is usualy 90+ with top tier items and they sink pretty much anyone no matter the fleet, and then proceed to tell those who PM them angry messages ( you have so and so to blame for your sector getting smashed, or the ever so overused: suck it up buttercup, its called battle pirates if you dont like it go play farmville mentality. it doesnt take long to level up to 50 and become free for all in the old system at that point those who told you wait until you turn 50 then i'll smash you are going to make good on that threat and at that point you cant stop thier fleets. this level hitting revamp is just what we needed.
    image
  • Bouli
    Bouli
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 113
    The level update from 50+ to 80+ free for all still will not work unless PvP is fully overhauled to be more fair.
    You level way too easy at the moment.

    So they should have raised the cap to 100+ especially seeing the max lvl ingame is set to 199.
    And I see the post I made about PvP changes was ignored fully while in my eyes that post had some good ideas posted in it.

    Like checking the defenders tech tier of turrets and guards and limit the attacker to simular tier fleets or lower tier fleets.
    So you stop the fully overpowered tier 7 conqueror fleets steamrolling into a tier 5 turret and guard base which most lower players have.
    Even some 80+ players do not have the ability to own full tier7 guard + turrets.

    So the upgrade of the free for all cap is worth nothing ingame
  • Milo-Ant
    Milo-Ant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 1,172
    1.) PvP requires frequent repair - something that approximately 90% of the player base tries to avoid like the plague.
    2.) I see the push to get the remaining T7 items out in two months as another anxiety pill for the player base - "get 'em now, get 'em built now."  Then what happens? How long before the T8 items start being released? 3 months?
    3.) No matter what Kix does to make PvP more accessible - those not doing PvP now will still have a very long way to go to be able to get to the point where PvP becomes a satisfying part of their game and I don't believe as many are prepared to do it as they think they are.  I see a lot of players saying "gimme, gimme, gimme." Tokens, campaigns, the ability to use conqueror hulls in everything, etc.   A hull is nothing without the weapons, specials, armor, skill and experience to use and place it.  Building a ship or two without the proper stuff is a waste of your shipyard time and the tokens you've been given.  One or two poorly built ships isn't going to make you a base-hitting God or is it going to make your base suddenly impenetrable. 
    4.) I see a lot of vague statements in the announcement - statements that indicate to me that the development team has a vision, but not very many specifics.  We have all seen what happens when game stats are manipulated.  How many remember when deflection was first introduced and the Revenge ran rampant for a couple of weeks until they fixed the issue?  How many of those still believe they "nerfed" the Revenge?  I see current PvP players getting ready to blow up when their well built, heavily financed ships start changing over night.
    5.) "Giving PvP meaning"? Seriously?   The development team polled the players and this is what they came away with?  Players hit bases because they like hitting  bases.  They like breaking through someone else's well thought out and developed defenses. This typically costs coin or renders a fleet unusable for a day (see point #1).   Bounty, in the last format we experienced, is Krapp.  It doesn't represent PvP accurately at all.  Hitting a base with no guard fleet? Having to 100% it to get any kind of reward?  Not having to worry about being hit back? No.  nonononononononononono.   I gotta believe that the majority of those who responded to the poll are victims of PvP, not practitioners (not saying all, ya knee-jerking liberals).  They can tell you why they don't play it, but they can't really tell you what will make them change because they don't have enough experience in it to respond competently.

    I don't believe there is a way to compete - really compete - in both the PvP and PvE arenas without coining.  I understand a couple of GOAT players are able to do it, but not everyone wants to spend the time required to get to that point.  Not in this day and age.   Maybe allow an "opt-in" feature for PvP - where a player can choose not to do it and not be open to hitting bases or being hit.   Make the first choice free - like naming your base - and any subsequent change cost 100 coin ($10 USD ya cheapskates) .  Or make it like the faction changes - with a 30 day cool down period.  Prevent those who opt out from doing any PvP (that includes FvF as well, ya mealy snipers) unless they open themselves to the entire scope.  Make every raid a store raid with a PvP aisle that is available to everyone.  Players can use their PvE skills and ships to gain tech in PvP and eventually opt in when they have enough to build a decent fleet or two.
    Used to be guy came on here called 'Cathedral Rock', you may have heard of him?


    Funny thing was if anyone jumped in his sector, he used to cry a lot saying they had come come there to hit him...……………….. not sure how he went on in SDS7?


    you cannot split PVP away from folks like that .or they would change their forum name and come on here knowing they could never be hit 
  • why.whynot.9
    why.whynot.9
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 25
    #1, Kixeye, you just don't get it.  The definition of "Balance".  Look it up some time.  #2, IF you are going to act like a pirate and impose the un-balanced approach to the game, just flat out say so.  Stop pretending you are trying to make it fun and or fair.  Because nothing you have done in years has proved that PVP is for anyone other than the top coiners, or hacks.  You just released your plan to put the DEFENSIVE part of things in the BACK of the plan scope.  Offense you focus on more than Defense.  And as many players have already stated, this is backwards to where it needs to be.  The amount of time, prize choice and strength of DEFENSE in a base is so low, that most everyone I have encountered makes no real effort anymore.  Just accepts that they will be slaughtered and focusses their efforts on their offense so they can go slaughter as well.  So you only have offense vs offense.  IF they even bother to get involved in PVP.  Which if Kixeye were rooted into where all this started, was where the fun was supposed to be.  All this PVE stuff/chore stuff is so time consuming, you have lost your roots of what people came to do.  Interact with one another.  As 1 of the few players left here, I can tell you, your current plan does not "Balance" things out yet again.  To make it FUN enough to warrant me giving a **** about PVP.  I spend most of my time in the game just doing chores.  And it boggles my mind why I bother, because what is the point of all the chores if it does not lead to a stronger platform of PVP?  In the old days, one would do the raid to try and get something that improved their base, or ships so they could either hit harder, or defend better.  Now, it is all about just getting components to build fleet(s) to battle the next style of raid, or TRY and keep up with the FM so you can win more components to stay on top of 1 or the other.  But PVP?  F'that.  Only the hacks and deep pockets can afford to stay involved in that on top of all the other chores.  You want more PVP time, end all the stupid chores, make the "Balance" of base vs incoming fleet fair again!  Biggest gripe back in the early day was when we would have 2 raids back to back that strengthened a base defense over offensive fleets.  Or vice versa.  Now, base defense is a joke.  It is the last thing on your priority list.  And it is the longest part of the game to try and work on.  Go back to your roots.  Good ideas are the ones that got you started in the 1st place.  
  • Milo-Ant
    Milo-Ant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 1,172
    So whats going on with the raid. First we get a break and assault in August and September, now we got  skirmish in September where we won't have have the stuff we need to do it. Can you move up the explanation as this is just angering people at this point.  

    hmm where did you read that pray tell?

    September is ASSAULT same as August

  • Shadows-13
    Shadows-13
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2016 Posts: 866
    Milo-Ant said:
    So whats going on with the raid. First we get a break and assault in August and September, now we got  skirmish in September where we won't have have the stuff we need to do it. Can you move up the explanation as this is just angering people at this point.  

    hmm where did you read that pray tell?

    September is ASSAULT same as August

    Unsure if was changed later but have a copy that was taken from this stating skirmish in September. That was what I was looking at. 
    Know your enemy and know yourself and you can fight a hundred battles without disaster.
    -Sun Tzu
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