Better yet, let's just give everyone the same base and get rid of base hitting all together. Add in fleet battles too. Then we can all just concentrate on chores, which is 90% of the game now anyway.
the game is what you make of it.. PvP still exists, you just have to go out and do it.
as for giving everyone the same base.. What would be the point of that? I spend a crapton of time on my base, already planning/changing for when the turret and CM change goes into place. My guard will be changing a little and that refit starts in 3 days.
I dont " need " the OP turrets to kill the majority of the attackers. Why should someone like yourself, Sandy and Trader Jack, who obviously do not spend time on their base have the same base and gear I do?
IF there was not any base hitting, the game would fold. the vast majority of whales are pvp players.
the vast majority of whales are baby seal killers .............no challenge in killing baby seals
true but just like the actual seal hunt it has to be done for the good of the ecosystym if canadians didnt club 300k to 400k a year they would eat the eastern seaboard into a barren marine wasteland from newfoundland to florida they are prolific hunters and after they eat every lobster,clam and fish the activists will have something else to whine aboot
so your premise is hit them till they quit? wouldnt it be great after all the whales chased everyone away and whale had to attack whale ?
TBH I dunno why folk hit bases, there is little or no reward for the effort...seems a bit pointless really.
because this is BATTLE PIRATES.. A game that was made around hitting bases.
PvE and Chore pirates can leave, the game would be better off in the end.
because some like to slow others down and most attackers are whales who dump their wallet monthly on kixeyes desk while those who dont have more money then brains have to wait 14 or more days per ship or base upgrade which is extended every hit because repair then back to building
I like hitting bases.. I am not a whale by any means.. most I spend a mth is 20.00
Better yet, let's just give everyone the same base and get rid of base hitting all together. Add in fleet battles too. Then we can all just concentrate on chores, which is 90% of the game now anyway.
the game is what you make of it.. PvP still exists, you just have to go out and do it.
as for giving everyone the same base.. What would be the point of that? I spend a crapton of time on my base, already planning/changing for when the turret and CM change goes into place. My guard will be changing a little and that refit starts in 3 days.
I dont " need " the OP turrets to kill the majority of the attackers. Why should someone like yourself, Sandy and Trader Jack, who obviously do not spend time on their base have the same base and gear I do?
IF there was not any base hitting, the game would fold. the vast majority of whales are pvp players.
the vast majority of whales are baby seal killers .............no challenge in killing baby seals
true but just like the actual seal hunt it has to be done for the good of the ecosystym if canadians didnt club 300k to 400k a year they would eat the eastern seaboard into a barren marine wasteland from newfoundland to florida they are prolific hunters and after they eat every lobster,clam and fish the activists will have something else to whine aboot
so your premise is hit them till they quit? wouldnt it be great after all the whales chased everyone away and whale had to attack whale ?
no what im saying is they been doin it so long that the hunt is balanced in nature if they quit there will be catastrophic repercussions to the ecosystem
and when 100 million seals start heading south in search of food,industries will collapse
like this game,whales wont survive on whales alone,gotta eat seals like myself on the regular
After last bounty my 4 howies6 with 2 blunder2 did not do any damedge to storm like befour bounty when critical hits wos visible and very obvious, now is like shooting in vain so my guess is turrets are nerfed after last bounty and will be fixed someday, bug after bug countered with nerfing, blah
i think the correction s are to stop the top 10 alli from crying, for once they cant get in once base so they cry about it and since they are the top 10 allis or big coiners sure fix for them cry babys, they so call boycotted the bounty over it yet coind mega to keep other off them not not boycotting that being a spoiled little brate trying to get his way and cry cry cryy till kix gives in
We can all agree that PvP is still unbalanced and slowly being corrected for long term viability while the game introduces the other damage types included in the plan. In this video it had been stated they are still trying to get out in front of mechanical or calculations changes. https://youtu.be/6Fbx40zcr30?t=1h1m13s Back in Jan they explained the swing issue, " What we are looking at is a multilayered check and balance system that's a little better than deciding what comes first or second. Trying to alleviate some of the gaps in time in offering the offense or defense things more competitively with each other. It is a more fair environment. In order to reduce the swing. There's a couple of things we're going to try to do because it is a complex problem and it's not just super easy to just solve.....Tools will exist for the problem and it doesn't mean they will come out at exactly the same time, but they will come out comparable to each other in a reasonable fashion that's the plan. We will have more PVP earning opportunities between if I missed out on this thing that we aren't waiting forever to see it again on so that they will come more regularly so you will see it again." GDR https://youtu.be/FoOPeGJ20BI?t=29m40s They were asked to give more information on changes up front. Please don't make them regret doing it as I like seeing it in order for players to prepare for even if it doesn't go as planned! Players should be providing feedback here, in pages and through videos in order to be a helpful community again giving other players and kixeye solid information they can work with.
This is all BS you sell us a these turret then Nurf. them. Just like you did with Fire support i'm sick of paying for a product just for you to nurf it. The bug you claim is all BS you are screwing customer do to you never test what you put out this is . This is just plan theft I'm over this crap and will be one of your dead bases you have out all over
I' m not a fan of nerfing turrets....i worked very hard to get 14 tier 7 turrets ... however there have been plenty of un killable conqure hull prior to the release of the tier 7 turrets...kix never nerf'd these hulls...like the super splash on the bus/sloth which made guard fleets pretty much useless....the release of the MC plate 2 should have brought balance to this issue in my humble opinion...easy peasy... ATM there are plenty of bases that can kill MSC/IC hulls WITHOUT T7 turrets... cleaver guard fleets are kill'n mine all the time... to push all the blame on T7 turrets is un justified ...there has always been a tech race n this game " don't miss out on a raid / bounty or other PVE event or u will suffer.... this will never change"... to punish the players in the game that played these events " and many of us spent coin do'n them" to get these T7 turrets by nerf'n them and now to say it's becuase of a calculation error "turrets are preforming to well " is a HORRIFIC solution to a problem that has been blow'n way out of proportion
And will the deflections on the hulls will come down as well? Because heavily nerfing defense while doing nothing to the attacker will ensure the turrets do nothing.
Which is why it is important to have a good guard fleet. Bases were never intended to kill the attacker without a guard fleet. I would imagine its kinda hard to balance a battle fleet versus base+fleet. * Right now i can pull my guard and the base will still kill the attacking fleet.
Congratulations on addressing an issue you were informed of over 2 months ago. Now as someone who was involved in player driven testing of the turret damage it is quite easy for me to see the reduction in damage that will be caused with this change. However where as before an executioner turret built for maximum damage with 8 T7 turrets in the group would put out damage as follows.
374766/2*1.35*1.31*1.25*1.5*1.15^5*1.25^8/2 = 3724567.36 damage to the hull after 50% turret defence. A difficult number to balance and rightly needing to be reduced.
However what you've proposed is making the T7 bonus additive instead of multiplicative thereby changing those damage numbers to
374766/2*1.35*1.31*1.25*1.5*1.15^5*2/2 = 1249757.42 damage applied to a hull after turret defence.
What this means is you are in effect negating missile turrets against missile cruisers even before additional armour has been equipped. The same can be said of ballistic turrets against the impact cruiser without me needing to bore you with the math. All one needs when designing an attacking fleet is add armour to counter the opposite faction to either of these hulls and one need never worry about a turret when attacking a base ever again.
I urge you to please consider that adopting this step without implementing change in the armours you've since released will only result in a massive swing in the opposite direction making turret designs irrelevant to base defence. I think you've done untold damage to the pvp community without further aggravating the situation.
If you wish to any further advice on how to do so please feel free to contact me.
I should also add i look forwards to being able to participate in the aspects of the game I enjoy in 20 days time. Until then I feel it's only right to curtail my participation.
For someone who's so routinely condescending about the design of the game, I love the fact that there are two things missing from your calculations:
1. Faction bonus. Yeah, it's only 20%, but when bonuses are compounding like they do, it adds more than it sounds like it would.
2. Your second calculation only factors in a 100% turret group bonus. The actual bonus of 200% in reality makes the final damage 1874636.13 if excluding the Faction bonus.
You, as well as a number of others in this thread, also fail to take into account that only two damage types for turrets have been released so far. By focusing only on "now", there's absolutely no notion of what the bigger picture may be. For instance: As more damage types are covered, and we all know there will be, it'll be harder and harder for attackers to cover all turret compositions. While it may be painful in the short term to swing the pendulum back to attackers, I see that as being more recoverable than the current situation. And, toward the end of the T7 era, could make for an interesting Attacker/Defender puzzle.
Personally, I would have liked to see a full suite of damage types released, then a new set that escalated on those while pairing armor upgrades, etc. But that's just me.
The faction bonus was deliberately omitted as the only area where it will be relevant were if the two new ballistic were added. Then the effect would be only impact cruisers are relevant in the course of base hitting. That would again present another problem in the swing mechanics. As for the mathematical error in calculation that was immediately corrected some time before you posted but my point still stands. Making the game so the only viable hull for base attacking is the one just released and it itself takes zero damage from turrets is not a good way to provide balance and sustainability to the pvp environment.
Also I appreciate you may well be looking forwards to the next turret type in the mean time those of us who only play to pvp have been sat on our arses for the last month or two and now we have to wait another 3 weeks
Not necessarily. To give the Impact Cruiser adequate explosive deflection(so a single Hope doesnt kill them) you would most likely have to settle for less ballistic deflection and probably swap a cannon for a nightwatch or D55-X as well. The Impact Cruiser will make a better guard than a hitter for the time being, my opinion of course.
Yes I know some bases could insta kill fleets, but it wasn't a huge % of bases that could.
Now no matter if your base could or couldn't insta death fleets, they will now no longer be able to do much, if any, damage to the incoming fleet.
So much for those that enjoy base defense.
Hopefully kix can come up with some middle ground fix instead of swinging from one end of the spectrum to the other. Although five years of playing has shown me it's not likely kix knows how to do a middle ground fix.
Oh well, in a month or so kix will swing it back to base defense.
"Base Defense" has always been intended to include the Defending fleet in conjunction with the base, not a stand-alone base. Spend your 20 days fortifying your guard fleet.
I also busted my **** and spent a few coins to build a good base, but in all honesty, I can remove my guard fleet and rest assured my base will kill ANY fleet that tries to get in. Now....nice as that may be....there is reciprocity there, there are other bases out there which can do same thing as mine, making them IMPENETRABLE. I dont like that, I want in their bases. I also dont want to be excluded from the base defense aspect of this game(by default) by having an unbeatable base. BE REAL. build better guards. address your bases other flaws. You have approx 20 days.
Congratulations on addressing an issue you were informed of over 2 months ago. Now as someone who was involved in player driven testing of the turret damage it is quite easy for me to see the reduction in damage that will be caused with this change. However where as before an executioner turret built for maximum damage with 8 T7 turrets in the group would put out damage as follows.
374766/2*1.35*1.31*1.25*1.5*1.15^5*1.25^8/2 = 3724567.36 damage to the hull after 50% turret defence. A difficult number to balance and rightly needing to be reduced.
However what you've proposed is making the T7 bonus additive instead of multiplicative thereby changing those damage numbers to
374766/2*1.35*1.31*1.25*1.5*1.15^5*3/2 = 1874636.13 damage applied to a hull after turret defence.
What this means is you are in effect negating missile turrets against missile cruisers even before additional armour has been equipped. The same can be said of ballistic turrets against the impact cruiser without me needing to bore you with the math. All one needs when designing an attacking fleet is add armour to counter the opposite faction to either of these hulls and one need never worry about a turret when attacking a base ever again.
I urge you to please consider that adopting this step without implementing change in the armours you've since released will only result in a massive swing in the opposite direction making turret designs irrelevant to base defence. I think you've done untold damage to the pvp community without further aggravating the situation.
If you wish to any further advice on how to do so please feel free to contact me.
I should also add i look forwards to being able to participate in the aspects of the game I enjoy in 20 days time. Until then I feel it's only right to curtail my participation.
Actually its less than that, all the bonuses from the specials should add up to 106% but youll notice in the "Equip Turret" screen that they(the accumulated bonuses) are capped at 105%.
And, by your math, I can get the Impact Cruiser to where it is only taking passthrough damage from Executioner 2's and Howitzer 6's (max damage output) and have great radioactive deflection as well but will still be taking ample damage from explosive, corrosive and concussive weapons (if the defender has them deployed well)
Inquisitors, Gluttonys, Writs, Onslaughts, Hopes....theres a few variables left out of your equations
I call bullshit on this bug stuff! Every time things don't work as intended theres a bug but Kixeye knows what they are doing so don't play us for fools
Since so many are unhappy about the next pendulum swing coming on the 26th how about we try something different and give some constructive ideas on how it could be better. All the negativity helps nothing so if you have an idea on making this update better lets hear it.
So what is realy happening here is # 1 kix will nerf the exectuc2 turrets ... only... becuase they said the number 8 .... not the howeis..... not yet anyway and why not nerf them too OMG there kill'n my MSC fleets #2 the anti mortar wepons are shooting down to manny morts from our beloved bus/sloth ..... so kix will nerf them too .... clearly what kix is do'n is catering to the tank / bus /sloth combo and death by splash strategy ..... " THATS BALANCE " NO IT IS REGRESSION designing a base to defend 1 type of fleet a supper fleet " tank/bus/sloth" clearly sum 1 @ kix hasa major stiffy fer bus / sloth ....so here we go backwards too the good ole days of watching our bases get splashed from 5 tiles away
I have a question #1 deflection armor " is most effective agianst highout put projectile weopns" the more projectiles we shoot the higher the defflection increases correct calculated multiplicatively? #2 the howei only shoots 1 projectile and the executioneer shoots 2 projectiles so the the effectiveness of defflections must decrees multiplicatively? makeing it defflection less effective correct? is this not why the deflections are not working on the tier 7 turrets? K.I.S. it's math it has too increes / decrees equally multiplicatively?
Better yet, let's just give everyone the same base and get rid of base hitting all together. Add in fleet battles too. Then we can all just concentrate on chores, which is 90% of the game now anyway.
the game is what you make of it.. PvP still exists, you just have to go out and do it.
as for giving everyone the same base.. What would be the point of that? I spend a crapton of time on my base, already planning/changing for when the turret and CM change goes into place. My guard will be changing a little and that refit starts in 3 days.
I dont " need " the OP turrets to kill the majority of the attackers. Why should someone like yourself, Sandy and Trader Jack, who obviously do not spend time on their base have the same base and gear I do?
IF there was not any base hitting, the game would fold. the vast majority of whales are pvp players.
the vast majority of whales are baby seal killers .............no challenge in killing baby seals
true but just like the actual seal hunt it has to be done for the good of the ecosystym if canadians didnt club 300k to 400k a year they would eat the eastern seaboard into a barren marine wasteland from newfoundland to florida they are prolific hunters and after they eat every lobster,clam and fish the activists will have something else to whine aboot
you do understand that the baby seals in the game are not smashing up the eco system of bp.... its the baby seal killers that are doing that by killing off the next gen of players..............in nature there will be more baby seals in bp there wont be by word of mouth DONT BOTHER WITH BP IT'S A CRAP GAME
Better yet, let's just give everyone the same base and get rid of base hitting all together. Add in fleet battles too. Then we can all just concentrate on chores, which is 90% of the game now anyway.
the game is what you make of it.. PvP still exists, you just have to go out and do it.
as for giving everyone the same base.. What would be the point of that? I spend a crapton of time on my base, already planning/changing for when the turret and CM change goes into place. My guard will be changing a little and that refit starts in 3 days.
I dont " need " the OP turrets to kill the majority of the attackers. Why should someone like yourself, Sandy and Trader Jack, who obviously do not spend time on their base have the same base and gear I do?
IF there was not any base hitting, the game would fold. the vast majority of whales are pvp players.
the vast majority of whales are baby seal killers .............no challenge in killing baby seals
true but just like the actual seal hunt it has to be done for the good of the ecosystym if canadians didnt club 300k to 400k a year they would eat the eastern seaboard into a barren marine wasteland from newfoundland to florida they are prolific hunters and after they eat every lobster,clam and fish the activists will have something else to whine aboot
so your premise is hit them till they quit? wouldnt it be great after all the whales chased everyone away and whale had to attack whale ?
no what im saying is they been doin it so long that the hunt is balanced in nature if they quit there will be catastrophic repercussions to the ecosystem
and when 100 million seals start heading south in search of food,industries will collapse
like this game,whales wont survive on whales alone,gotta eat seals like myself on the regular
this story sounds awful familiar, almost as if your describing Kixeye's themselves. One could see them running out of seals in the near future and well. just heading south
I have a question #1 deflection armor " is most effective agianst highout put projectile weopns" the more projectiles we shoot the higher the defflection increases correct calculated multiplicatively? #2 the howei only shoots 1 projectile and the executioneer shoots 2 projectiles so the the effectiveness of defflections must decrees multiplicatively? makeing it defflection less effective correct? is this not why the deflections are not working on the tier 7 turrets? K.I.S. it's math it has too increes / decrees equally multiplicatively?
Deflections do not change.. It is what it is on the ship.. There is no multiplicative or anything else of the sort.
howie's damage is listed as X . it shoots one shot, so it does X damage. X damage - Y deflection of the boat = damage done. Or passthrough if you have enough deflection.
EX2.. shoots 2 shots. so you take X damage divide by 2 to get the salvo damage, then subtract the deflection.. = your damage done..
I have no clue what you are trying to say in your post. cause it makes no sense.
I have a question #1 deflection armor " is most effective agianst highout put projectile weopns" the more projectiles we shoot the higher the defflection increases correct calculated multiplicatively? #2 the howei only shoots 1 projectile and the executioneer shoots 2 projectiles so the the effectiveness of defflections must decrees multiplicatively? makeing it defflection less effective correct? is this not why the deflections are not working on the tier 7 turrets? K.I.S. it's math it has too increes / decrees equally multiplicatively?
Deflections do not change.. It is what it is on the ship.. There is no multiplicative or anything else of the sort.
howie's damage is listed as X . it shoots one shot, so it does X damage. X damage - Y deflection of the boat = damage done. Or passthrough if you have enough deflection.
EX2.. shoots 2 shots. so you take X damage divide by 2 to get the salvo damage, then subtract the deflection.. = your damage done..
I have no clue what you are trying to say in your post. cause it makes no sense.
why are you answering then?
you keep whining like me but we are still here, i love broken pixels, how about you
Kixeye should make the Conqueror repair slot permanent. I might hit a base again if they did that. All I do now are chores, TLC's and events. I don't like having fleets backed up for repairs so base hitting rarely happens for me anymore. This is a serious suggestion which might help out with overall player satisfaction in PvP; particularly those of us that just don't PvP any longer.
So what is realy happening here is # 1 kix will nerf the exectuc2 turrets ... only... becuase they said the number 8 .... not the howeis..... not yet anyway and why not nerf them too OMG there kill'n my MSC fleets #2 the anti mortar wepons are shooting down to manny morts from our beloved bus/sloth ..... so kix will nerf them too .... clearly what kix is do'n is catering to the tank / bus /sloth combo and death by splash strategy ..... " THATS BALANCE " NO IT IS REGRESSION designing a base to defend 1 type of fleet a supper fleet " tank/bus/sloth" clearly sum 1 @ kix hasa major stiffy fer bus / sloth ....so here we go backwards too the good ole days of watching our bases get splashed from 5 tiles away
5 Tiles, last hit on my base was splashed from 8 or 9 tiles and had 5 rows of Level 10 walls in the way.
With PvP being looked at, is it also time to address the problem of high level players farming low level players? Question is how to make it fair since base level is not an indication of a players true strength / position in the game, particularly when its possible for a lvl 60 to coin themselves the same tech that a lvl 100 player can have.
A possible way to to change the hitting rules is based on outpost level. Maybe +/- 1 lvl of your OP lvl. That may be more balanced than the current free for all at lvl 50+. So as an example, if you have OP10 you can hit others with Op10 and also OP9, but no lower. OP9 can hit OP lvls 8-10. etc.
Also the perk of being able to build the conqueror yard at lvl 10 is a good incentive to deter players from wanting to stay at OP lvl 8 or lower to avoid being hit by higher lvl players that have OP10.
With PvP being looked at, is it also time to address the problem of high level players farming low level players? Question is how to make it fair since base level is not an indication of a players true strength / position in the game, particularly when its possible for a lvl 60 to coin themselves the same tech that a lvl 100 player can have.
A possible way to to change the hitting rules is based on outpost level. Maybe +/- 1 lvl of your OP lvl. That may be more balanced than the current free for all at lvl 50+. So as an example, if you have OP10 you can hit others with Op10 and also OP9, but no lower. OP9 can hit OP lvls 8-10. etc.
Also the perk of being able to build the conqueror yard at lvl 10 is a good incentive to deter players from wanting to stay at OP lvl 8 or lower to avoid being hit by higher lvl players that have OP10.
Thoughts?
I'd restrict it further to your current level and then consider some other ways to enhance it based on other technology such as level of turrets.
Nerf one single turret and it will be my last day. What you are doing is illegal. You cannot continue to sell people a BMW and then take it back and say here is your Pinto.
if they quit there will be catastrophic repercussions to the ecosystem
and when 100 million seals start heading south in search of food,industries will collapse
like this game,whales wont survive on whales alone,gotta eat seals like myself on the regular
Back in Jan they explained the swing issue, " What we are looking at is a multilayered check and balance system that's a little better than deciding what comes first or second. Trying to alleviate some of the gaps in time in offering the offense or defense things more competitively with each other. It is a more fair environment. In order to reduce the swing. There's a couple of things we're going to try to do because it is a complex problem and it's not just super easy to just solve.....Tools will exist for the problem and it doesn't mean they will come out at exactly the same time, but they will come out comparable to each other in a reasonable fashion that's the plan. We will have more PVP earning opportunities between if I missed out on this thing that we aren't waiting forever to see it again on so that they will come more regularly so you will see it again." GDR
They were asked to give more information on changes up front. Please don't make them regret doing it as I like seeing it in order for players to prepare for even if it doesn't go as planned! Players should be providing feedback here, in pages and through videos in order to be a helpful community again giving other players and kixeye solid information they can work with.
I' m not a fan of nerfing turrets....i worked very hard to get 14 tier 7 turrets ... however there have been plenty of un killable conqure hull prior to the release of the tier 7 turrets...kix never nerf'd these hulls...like the super splash on the bus/sloth which made guard fleets pretty much useless....the release of the MC plate 2 should have brought balance to this issue in my humble opinion...easy peasy... ATM there are plenty of bases that can kill MSC/IC hulls WITHOUT T7 turrets... cleaver guard fleets are kill'n mine all the time... to push all the blame on T7 turrets is un justified ...there has always been a tech race n this game " don't miss out on a raid / bounty or other PVE event or u will suffer.... this will never change"... to punish the players in the game that played these events " and many of us spent coin do'n them" to get these T7 turrets by nerf'n them and now to say it's becuase of a calculation error "turrets are preforming to well " is a HORRIFIC solution to a problem that has been blow'n way out of proportion
howie's damage is listed as X . it shoots one shot, so it does X damage. X damage - Y deflection of the boat = damage done. Or passthrough if you have enough deflection.
EX2.. shoots 2 shots. so you take X damage divide by 2 to get the salvo damage, then subtract the deflection.. = your damage done..
A possible way to to change the hitting rules is based on outpost level. Maybe +/- 1 lvl of your OP lvl. That may be more balanced than the current free for all at lvl 50+.
So as an example, if you have OP10 you can hit others with Op10 and also OP9, but no lower. OP9 can hit OP lvls 8-10. etc.
Also the perk of being able to build the conqueror yard at lvl 10 is a good incentive to deter players from wanting to stay at OP lvl 8 or lower to avoid being hit by higher lvl players that have OP10.
Thoughts?