FM / Update Discussion 11/1

  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    edited 5 Nov 2017, 11:02PM
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    beel78 said:
    I would like to start of by saying thank you for the repair tokens for fleets that are doing the weekly mission this is where the positives end 

    I am a lvl 121 player who has been playing the game for 4 years now i would consider my self a big coiner the reason for me coining is i really enjoyed your game the excitement of logging in to see if my base had been hit and if so after i repair getting revenge by hitting them back maybe even someone from the alliance i am in could help me do this the interaction with other players not just in my alliance but in sector comms over the past year the content overload has gotten to an unbelievable stage that when i log in i dont even care if my base has been hit the 1st thing i look at is do i need URANIUM , do i need TITANIUM , do i need BASE PARTS do i need to do the WEEKLY FORSAKEN MISSION , do i need RES , do i need to do the DAILY CAMPAIGN , do i need to do any TIME LIMITED CAMPAIGNS , these 7 things that i HATE to do have become the game i now play there is no time to hit bases to have FUN it takes so dam long to do all the CHORES that are now in the game , yes i could auto them but the cost of this is also unreal i have never minded paying for repairs but its got to be reasonable to what you are getting in return and its just NOT !!! 

    Now with what you have done to the weekly targets this is just the most ridiculous single update you have ever done in the game its not only the INCREASED  insane damage that the 115 represents its the fact that you are willing to do this to your player base and this brings me on to a more worrying fact IF you are willing to do this to the FM the most important aspect in the game bar none then you could do it to any aspect of the game  i build a fleet to do the FM and i fully expected it to do the FM till June/July not Nov like it is now so as an end result you have now lost credibility as a company i have 0 faith in you now and without faith in you as a company and with the enjoyment factor being at an all time low there is no reason to coin 

    I URGE YOU yes YOU KIXEYE to look at what you have done in the FM the changes YOU MADE and the consequences they have in the game and not even just the impact it has had to players who are now suffering in the FM other wise YOUR GAME will end without players there is NO game maybe you will change it back to the old targets maybe you wont maybe you will make drastic changes to the 2 new targets maybe you wont but its in your hands and i implore you i urge you other wise the days of battle pirates are numbered  
    LOL you got to be kidding me as a matter of fact all you guys and gals are what word should i say well anyways stop posting the same crap and leave already or play the game but the FM is what it is build a fleet for it or move to the next part you think you can do but stop all the ###### about the new targets they are not that bad with the right build !! 
    Nope not kidding i can do the 115 for 1 hour 20 mins repair with icebreakers in 1 hit but if you cant see how this change is bad for the game then i not sure what to say ......... you say for players to leave the game if enough do this then there will not be a game , what kixeye have done is they wanted the target changed with 0 thought given to the players and the effect it will have them on the short term or long term is the most worrying thing 
    not arguing but using IB/VIB fleet as well and only do it in one hit, would like to see a video on a how to with that repair time.  I am down to three hours per 115 but, I would love some advice or tips on how to get it down to 80 min.
    george's vid is 1h30m with him putting in very little effort to drive with any caution.

    i suspect we'll easily see under 1 hour with an IB fleet. i'm confident mine will do it after my next refit, but i have a fang in my shipyard at the moment, and obviously i'm saving all my tokens and chests coming into the raid, just like everyone else, so cant speed it up.
    This is a big issue though. We were all told our fleets from the garrison raid would be good for a year.

    This being the case, many didn't build IB's or even monos in some cases. They didn't need to. They built what they were TOLD they needed and it worked. Emp/zel fleets could walk the raids and the old FM for example.
    Due to this many didn't bother struggling through all the garrison TLC reruns either, because AGAIN, they were TOLD they didn't need to. It was optional. Also, in order to get a full fleet of IB's built instantly and not interfere with more pressing builds, you needed to fully run the IB TLC repeatedly and there are no rank tokens offered for them either.

    Basically, if you were able to do the FM last week, you now might not be able to do this at all, or at least will be taking unreasonable damage. Meaning you now have to build another fleet! And you even said yourself, our yards are still busy with current raid fleets!

    The only option to finish this FM in any time close to the original time is with IB's. Not everyone has them and it's unreasonable to expect people to build them now with another garrison raid being just around the corner and current fleets building. And after Kix said there would be no change!

    Kixeye are making this game more and more about the top 10%, because they have an unscrupulous and very poor business model. That's all there is to it. 
    you know this is a strategy game right?

    Getting tokens gives you options to ensure you're not getting caught with your pants down. Resting on having one fleet that currently does the job is asking to get caught with your pants down.

    A year is a long time. A lot changes. We've had close to 1,000 days of build tokens given out since that last garrison raid. I dont recall them announcing they were going to give away 1,000 days of build tokens either, but they have. 

    Also, if there is another garrison raid around the corner, won't many players pick up better ships then anyways?
    So you say its our fault for resting on ONE fleet to do the job. Thats interesting since you also blast people for what you call " wasting" shipyard time building un-necessary fleets. So what are we meant to do? By your logic we need to build two fleets for every chore in the game. Catch is most are struggling to build ONE fleet for a chore and IF they get it finished in time then they are building for the next chore. There is no point building a second FM fleet when your current one ( before the FM changes ) worked and you needed to build a raid fleet.
    what do you do?

    You pick up the tokens in the TLCs for older, but still useful hulls wherever you can, rather than just leave them because you already have a fleet built. No kidding. done that. Often seems you miss the basics of how to play the game well. well done you got this right.

    You pick up the tokens in TLCs for the secondary current raid fleet. The hunter was extremely simple to get first time round as a recent example. Maybe simple IF you got a FULL fleet of skyfires but some of us only had time to build a phoenix fleet and not having a FULL FLEET of skyfires makes finishing the hunter tlc rather HARD.  The first hunter TLC was pretty simple compared to the second run. There have been tons of skyfire tokens available too.

    You pick up extra ship tokens in raids if you have spare points. No kidding. Often seems you miss the basics of how to play the game well. well done you got this right. If you had been doing this you'd have your full fleet of skyfires.

    Catch is, you've only needed ONE of the raid fleets to keep up in the raids. And put in a bit more effort. For those of us who are caught up TWO has been easy to build with tokens and existing shipyard time. Well this contradicts your point above about building TWO FLEETS. AND I HAVE PUT THE EFFORT IN. I got the T5 chest this FM. What you FORGET is the FM is mant to be for LOWER lvls to catch up. How can they do that when low-mid lvls can't get T3 anymore. I havent contradicted anything. I have built both fleets as its been easy to do so without coins, and it gives you options when it comes to current raid targets as well as future TLCs. Building a current raid fleet is not building junk - but i thought that was pretty obvious to anyone. I haven't commented on the lower tiers. I haven't tested the lower targets. Although I have seen the comments of people using a single zelos on some of the lower targets for instant repair.

    For monos/IBs there have been that many tokens given out you could have build FIVE FM fleets using only a couple months of shipyard time. I have a few spares build. The snag is as I only have ONE repair queue I could have 20 gazillion FM fleets; but I can still only REPAIR ONE FLEET AT A TIME so spare fleets DON'T help much . That point was more about the sheer volume of FM type tokens that have been made available since that raid series. What you could do, and should do are not necessarily the same thing. I dont have five FM fleets, but having a spare IB or two is useful. Particularly if i decide i want to change my number of antis.

    Using shipyard time for building unnecessary fleets is when you build punishers when you have a zelos print available. Or build citadels when you have monos/ibs available. Or as i've heard in comms even quite recently building vendettas when the player did not have a decent FM fleet. Its really not a difficult concept to get. Maybe read it a few more times and you'll get it. Oh I get it all right, you tell people to build spare fleets then you tell them its their fault they wasted shipyard time on 2 fleets. You keep contracting yourself. Try reading what you post next time. I tell people to build the best possible ships to get them further in the game, rather than waste build time on stuff when they have something better that they could be building. Really ... its not that difficult to understand. Why are you having a problem with understanding that if you have an option to build something good or something junk, and you choose to build junk, then maybe, just maybe, and i'm really not sure, but just maybe that is a bad idea. Honestly i thought i had used small enough words for you. i'll try to keep them smaller next time.  




  • XziizX 2.0
    XziizX 2.0
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 414


    Giving my sec a pic of how I feel after first round. 

    Another problem is that we are back to the same deal with the 109, ppl get desperate and gutt the first right side for 60k points, so now we got a  sec  full of partial dead 115.. 
    Homesector: Nope. Sector visited: yes, and some more. Drac / Reaver hulls: Won some, some I didn't win. 
  • gus.hovey
    gus.hovey
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 241
    Maybe it can be done in an hour--if i can build the right fleet and have the top weapons/specials/armor.  I have all of that and can't so it must be my driving.  Either way  what used to take me less then 1 hour in total now takes 3 days plus (coin makes it less time  no coin makes it longer) Either way i don't do PVP anymore because i haven't the time for the game any longer.  (found my X-Box one and a bunch of games i like to play) So when it comes down to it talking to my friends and enemies on the game was the best part for me.  Currently they are not on as much so that part is over, and when they are on they are way to busy driving to spend a lot of time talking.  Used to log on all hours of the day and night just to talk to those with different time zones. Now not so much.
    Thank You Kix  i think at level 115 i have finally seen the light  :)
    yes ole bud we are fewer every day :(    
  • Proteus-606
    Proteus-606
    Master Tactician
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 2,195
    edited 6 Nov 2017, 12:57AM
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    beel78 said:
    I would like to start of by saying thank you for the repair tokens for fleets that are doing the weekly mission this is where the positives end 

    I am a lvl 121 player who has been playing the game for 4 years now i would consider my self a big coiner the reason for me coining is i really enjoyed your game the excitement of logging in to see if my base had been hit and if so after i repair getting revenge by hitting them back maybe even someone from the alliance i am in could help me do this the interaction with other players not just in my alliance but in sector comms over the past year the content overload has gotten to an unbelievable stage that when i log in i dont even care if my base has been hit the 1st thing i look at is do i need URANIUM , do i need TITANIUM , do i need BASE PARTS do i need to do the WEEKLY FORSAKEN MISSION , do i need RES , do i need to do the DAILY CAMPAIGN , do i need to do any TIME LIMITED CAMPAIGNS , these 7 things that i HATE to do have become the game i now play there is no time to hit bases to have FUN it takes so dam long to do all the CHORES that are now in the game , yes i could auto them but the cost of this is also unreal i have never minded paying for repairs but its got to be reasonable to what you are getting in return and its just NOT !!! 

    Now with what you have done to the weekly targets this is just the most ridiculous single update you have ever done in the game its not only the INCREASED  insane damage that the 115 represents its the fact that you are willing to do this to your player base and this brings me on to a more worrying fact IF you are willing to do this to the FM the most important aspect in the game bar none then you could do it to any aspect of the game  i build a fleet to do the FM and i fully expected it to do the FM till June/July not Nov like it is now so as an end result you have now lost credibility as a company i have 0 faith in you now and without faith in you as a company and with the enjoyment factor being at an all time low there is no reason to coin 

    I URGE YOU yes YOU KIXEYE to look at what you have done in the FM the changes YOU MADE and the consequences they have in the game and not even just the impact it has had to players who are now suffering in the FM other wise YOUR GAME will end without players there is NO game maybe you will change it back to the old targets maybe you wont maybe you will make drastic changes to the 2 new targets maybe you wont but its in your hands and i implore you i urge you other wise the days of battle pirates are numbered  
    LOL you got to be kidding me as a matter of fact all you guys and gals are what word should i say well anyways stop posting the same crap and leave already or play the game but the FM is what it is build a fleet for it or move to the next part you think you can do but stop all the ###### about the new targets they are not that bad with the right build !! 
    Nope not kidding i can do the 115 for 1 hour 20 mins repair with icebreakers in 1 hit but if you cant see how this change is bad for the game then i not sure what to say ......... you say for players to leave the game if enough do this then there will not be a game , what kixeye have done is they wanted the target changed with 0 thought given to the players and the effect it will have them on the short term or long term is the most worrying thing 
    not arguing but using IB/VIB fleet as well and only do it in one hit, would like to see a video on a how to with that repair time.  I am down to three hours per 115 but, I would love some advice or tips on how to get it down to 80 min.
    george's vid is 1h30m with him putting in very little effort to drive with any caution.

    i suspect we'll easily see under 1 hour with an IB fleet. i'm confident mine will do it after my next refit, but i have a fang in my shipyard at the moment, and obviously i'm saving all my tokens and chests coming into the raid, just like everyone else, so cant speed it up.
    This is a big issue though. We were all told our fleets from the garrison raid would be good for a year.

    This being the case, many didn't build IB's or even monos in some cases. They didn't need to. They built what they were TOLD they needed and it worked. Emp/zel fleets could walk the raids and the old FM for example.
    Due to this many didn't bother struggling through all the garrison TLC reruns either, because AGAIN, they were TOLD they didn't need to. It was optional. Also, in order to get a full fleet of IB's built instantly and not interfere with more pressing builds, you needed to fully run the IB TLC repeatedly and there are no rank tokens offered for them either.

    Basically, if you were able to do the FM last week, you now might not be able to do this at all, or at least will be taking unreasonable damage. Meaning you now have to build another fleet! And you even said yourself, our yards are still busy with current raid fleets!

    The only option to finish this FM in any time close to the original time is with IB's. Not everyone has them and it's unreasonable to expect people to build them now with another garrison raid being just around the corner and current fleets building. And after Kix said there would be no change!

    Kixeye are making this game more and more about the top 10%, because they have an unscrupulous and very poor business model. That's all there is to it. 
    you know this is a strategy game right?

    Getting tokens gives you options to ensure you're not getting caught with your pants down. Resting on having one fleet that currently does the job is asking to get caught with your pants down.

    A year is a long time. A lot changes. We've had close to 1,000 days of build tokens given out since that last garrison raid. I dont recall them announcing they were going to give away 1,000 days of build tokens either, but they have. 

    Also, if there is another garrison raid around the corner, won't many players pick up better ships then anyways?
    So you say its our fault for resting on ONE fleet to do the job. Thats interesting since you also blast people for what you call " wasting" shipyard time building un-necessary fleets. So what are we meant to do? By your logic we need to build two fleets for every chore in the game. Catch is most are struggling to build ONE fleet for a chore and IF they get it finished in time then they are building for the next chore. There is no point building a second FM fleet when your current one ( before the FM changes ) worked and you needed to build a raid fleet.
    what do you do?

    You pick up the tokens in the TLCs for older, but still useful hulls wherever you can, rather than just leave them because you already have a fleet built.

    You pick up the tokens in TLCs for the secondary current raid fleet. The hunter was extremely simple to get first time round as a recent example.

    You pick up extra ship tokens in raids if you have spare points.

    Catch is, you've only needed ONE of the raid fleets to keep up in the raids. And put in a bit more effort. For those of us who are caught up TWO has been easy to build with tokens and existing shipyard time.

    For monos/IBs there have been that many tokens given out you could have build FIVE FM fleets using only a couple months of shipyard time.

    Using shipyard time for building unnecessary fleets is when you build punishers when you have a zelos print available. Or build citadels when you have monos/ibs available. Or as i've heard in comms even quite recently building vendettas when the player did not have a decent FM fleet. Its really not a difficult concept to get. Maybe read it a few more times and you'll get it.


    So what you are saying is...do more chores? lol

    That is the point. You are a care-bear who loves killing brainless pixels that can't outwit you. We aren't all care-bears. Many of us do NOT want to be hitting so many challenge-less, inane targets all the time.

    And I know i keep saying this, but clearly you are ignoring it because it doesn't suit your argument, but here goes again... They said MULTIPLE times, we would not see a change for a year. Has it been a year? I genuinely want an answer so I know you have actually read this part.
    Coming Soon in Kixeye land means "When Satan need to put the heating on"
  • mark711craps
    mark711craps
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 375
    I think it's complete BS that they throw the FM change a week before a raid.  Some of us are still finalizing our raid fleets and can't afford the shipyard time to refit a FM fleet...Of course Kix knows this.......meaning more pressure to coin.......
  • GrumpyReign
    GrumpyReign
    Master Tactician
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 2,360
    edited 6 Nov 2017, 12:50AM
    bort said:
    Lt_Caine said:
    Comments on new FM seem to mirror those from each new raid:

    - Oh! It is impossible for anyone to do! (Usually made in within first 15 min of raid)
    - I will never return to this stupid game. (Within an hour)
    - Kix has killed the game.  (first day)
    - Well, it is more difficult (Second day after watching Youtube of someone who knows how to drive)
    - Hey, look.  I am 30th in sector! (Third day)
    - Guys.  I got the new hull and the special and the weapon and tokens.... (End of Raid) 
    Except they aren't, are they? Many here aren't complaining it's too hard. They are complaining it's too long and too tedious. It's made a chore even more of a chore. Did you actually read any of the feedback, or did you just assume like trolls always do?

    Also I call bollox on your overview. MANY do not have all the tech and it's not far off the end of the FM. Most have given this a wide birth because it's boring and unreasonable for a weekly task.

    You are right, there is always a sub-set of players who whine before they have even tried. We mostly just ignore them. But you have misread this situation to the highest degree! There are people decrying this change who don't even come on the forums normally. Even some of the trolls are saying they hate this!!! When the trolls and fan-boys turn, you know you have a problem! even big supporters of the game, like the TFC are deeply angered by this!

    I actually have one troll who chats to me on occasion, who is publicly supporting the FM, but in PM has admitted he hates this FM and wont take part! He's just being a troll and trying to annoy people lol
    do it faster then. that's also already been figured out - add that to his list.
    You already admitted to me in PM that these are slower to complete. Don't forget that when you try to look tough and knowledgeable on the forum. You also refused, as always to acknowledge other points, sticking to only what works for you.

    I made a longer post about this, which you can read at your leisure, or ignore, i really don't care. Ultimately, you are a care-bear player who likes to **** dumb Ai. Most players are not. I come from the days when this game used to be about fighting other players, not the PC. Some of us like an actual challenge, not just building what kixeye tells us and then memorizing a pattern like a trained monkey. But hey, if that floats your boat, knock yourself out.

    These targets require refits for most, or total new fleets. They DO take longer to kill and more care, which also wastes time. People who can't refit yet, or don't have the right fleets are taking as much as 5 times as long to kill a single target. Some have used their tokens to catch up, only to find they already need to refit. Noth everyone hordes because they are already sitting pretty like you.

    Again you talk the talk but don't walk the walk, and everyone can see it. You play half the game and tell others that they don't work hard enough or smart enough. totally forgetting not everyone WANTS to play like you do, and they shouldn't have to. If people wanna PvP like the old days, they shouldn't be forced into grinding boring PvE targets. You enjoy it, we don't.
    all of this, you and bort both, evades a more critical question: why on this blue digital earth was a rebalance needed? why? it doesn't matter whether it can be done or not. it's not a question of revenue, that's obvious. so what is it? and, unfortunately, all of the reasonable answers point to a lack of coherent design philosophy.

    i've spent the better part of the last two years telling players quite blithely that their fears and concerns were overblown. i wasn't wrong, but.. why the hell do i keep having this conversation? that's not overblown at all.

    i am too damned tired for this crap.

    look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
    I can feel you judging me. That's palpable. But, hey, I never said I was the hero of this story.
  • Proteus-606
    Proteus-606
    Master Tactician
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 2,195

    interesting that the word I typed in was censored...didn't know it was considered profanity these days...I could see it if I dropped an f bomb....

    I thought you quit the game?


    To be fair, your post does come across as very troll-like. I've quit, but it is conditional. I'm not playing until I see what Kixeye does with the FM, but I'm still here to see what happens and try to counter a horrible decision. If the FM stays, I go.

    Forums and playing are two separate things.
    Coming Soon in Kixeye land means "When Satan need to put the heating on"
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    FishBite said:
    bort said:
    FishBite said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    beel78 said:
    I would like to start of by saying thank you for the repair tokens for fleets that are doing the weekly mission this is where the positives end 

    I am a lvl 121 player who has been playing the game for 4 years now i would consider my self a big coiner the reason for me coining is i really enjoyed your game the excitement of logging in to see if my base had been hit and if so after i repair getting revenge by hitting them back maybe even someone from the alliance i am in could help me do this the interaction with other players not just in my alliance but in sector comms over the past year the content overload has gotten to an unbelievable stage that when i log in i dont even care if my base has been hit the 1st thing i look at is do i need URANIUM , do i need TITANIUM , do i need BASE PARTS do i need to do the WEEKLY FORSAKEN MISSION , do i need RES , do i need to do the DAILY CAMPAIGN , do i need to do any TIME LIMITED CAMPAIGNS , these 7 things that i HATE to do have become the game i now play there is no time to hit bases to have FUN it takes so dam long to do all the CHORES that are now in the game , yes i could auto them but the cost of this is also unreal i have never minded paying for repairs but its got to be reasonable to what you are getting in return and its just NOT !!! 

    Now with what you have done to the weekly targets this is just the most ridiculous single update you have ever done in the game its not only the INCREASED  insane damage that the 115 represents its the fact that you are willing to do this to your player base and this brings me on to a more worrying fact IF you are willing to do this to the FM the most important aspect in the game bar none then you could do it to any aspect of the game  i build a fleet to do the FM and i fully expected it to do the FM till June/July not Nov like it is now so as an end result you have now lost credibility as a company i have 0 faith in you now and without faith in you as a company and with the enjoyment factor being at an all time low there is no reason to coin 

    I URGE YOU yes YOU KIXEYE to look at what you have done in the FM the changes YOU MADE and the consequences they have in the game and not even just the impact it has had to players who are now suffering in the FM other wise YOUR GAME will end without players there is NO game maybe you will change it back to the old targets maybe you wont maybe you will make drastic changes to the 2 new targets maybe you wont but its in your hands and i implore you i urge you other wise the days of battle pirates are numbered  
    LOL you got to be kidding me as a matter of fact all you guys and gals are what word should i say well anyways stop posting the same crap and leave already or play the game but the FM is what it is build a fleet for it or move to the next part you think you can do but stop all the ###### about the new targets they are not that bad with the right build !! 
    Nope not kidding i can do the 115 for 1 hour 20 mins repair with icebreakers in 1 hit but if you cant see how this change is bad for the game then i not sure what to say ......... you say for players to leave the game if enough do this then there will not be a game , what kixeye have done is they wanted the target changed with 0 thought given to the players and the effect it will have them on the short term or long term is the most worrying thing 
    not arguing but using IB/VIB fleet as well and only do it in one hit, would like to see a video on a how to with that repair time.  I am down to three hours per 115 but, I would love some advice or tips on how to get it down to 80 min.
    george's vid is 1h30m with him putting in very little effort to drive with any caution.

    i suspect we'll easily see under 1 hour with an IB fleet. i'm confident mine will do it after my next refit, but i have a fang in my shipyard at the moment, and obviously i'm saving all my tokens and chests coming into the raid, just like everyone else, so cant speed it up.
    This is a big issue though. We were all told our fleets from the garrison raid would be good for a year.

    This being the case, many didn't build IB's or even monos in some cases. They didn't need to. They built what they were TOLD they needed and it worked. Emp/zel fleets could walk the raids and the old FM for example.
    Due to this many didn't bother struggling through all the garrison TLC reruns either, because AGAIN, they were TOLD they didn't need to. It was optional. Also, in order to get a full fleet of IB's built instantly and not interfere with more pressing builds, you needed to fully run the IB TLC repeatedly and there are no rank tokens offered for them either.

    Basically, if you were able to do the FM last week, you now might not be able to do this at all, or at least will be taking unreasonable damage. Meaning you now have to build another fleet! And you even said yourself, our yards are still busy with current raid fleets!

    The only option to finish this FM in any time close to the original time is with IB's. Not everyone has them and it's unreasonable to expect people to build them now with another garrison raid being just around the corner and current fleets building. And after Kix said there would be no change!

    Kixeye are making this game more and more about the top 10%, because they have an unscrupulous and very poor business model. That's all there is to it. 
    you know this is a strategy game right?

    Getting tokens gives you options to ensure you're not getting caught with your pants down. Resting on having one fleet that currently does the job is asking to get caught with your pants down.

    A year is a long time. A lot changes. We've had close to 1,000 days of build tokens given out since that last garrison raid. I dont recall them announcing they were going to give away 1,000 days of build tokens either, but they have. 

    Also, if there is another garrison raid around the corner, won't many players pick up better ships then anyways?
    So you say its our fault for resting on ONE fleet to do the job. Thats interesting since you also blast people for what you call " wasting" shipyard time building un-necessary fleets. So what are we meant to do? By your logic we need to build two fleets for every chore in the game. Catch is most are struggling to build ONE fleet for a chore and IF they get it finished in time then they are building for the next chore. There is no point building a second FM fleet when your current one ( before the FM changes ) worked and you needed to build a raid fleet.
    what do you do?

    You pick up the tokens in the TLCs for older, but still useful hulls wherever you can, rather than just leave them because you already have a fleet built. No kidding. done that.

    You pick up the tokens in TLCs for the secondary current raid fleet. The hunter was extremely simple to get first time round as a recent example. Maybe simple IF you got a FULL fleet of skyfires but some of us only had time to build a phoenix fleet and not having a FULL FLEET of skyfires makes finishing the hunter tlc rather HARD.

    You pick up extra ship tokens in raids if you have spare points. No kidding

    Catch is, you've only needed ONE of the raid fleets to keep up in the raids. And put in a bit more effort. For those of us who are caught up TWO has been easy to build with tokens and existing shipyard time. Well this contradicts your point above about building TWO FLEETS. AND I HAVE PUT THE EFFORT IN. I got the T5 chest this FM. What you FORGET is the FM is mant to be for LOWER lvls to catch up. How can they do that when low-mid lvls can't get T3 anymore.

    For monos/IBs there have been that many tokens given out you could have build FIVE FM fleets using only a couple months of shipyard time. I have a few spares build. The snag is as I only have ONE repair queue I could have 20 gazillion FM fleets; but I can still only REPAIR ONE FLEET AT A TIME so spare fleets DON'T help much.

    Using shipyard time for building unnecessary fleets is when you build punishers when you have a zelos print available. Or build citadels when you have monos/ibs available. Or as i've heard in comms even quite recently building vendettas when the player did not have a decent FM fleet. Its really not a difficult concept to get. Maybe read it a few more times and you'll get it. Oh I get it all right, you tell people to build spare fleets then you tell them its their fault they wasted shipyard time on 2 fleets. You keep contracting yourself. Try reading what you post next time.



    I would give this post a double like.   :) 

    The problem is not everyone is some elite player who spends 40 hours a week playing.     We just wanna log in and have some fun.  Grinding FM means no PvP
    why would you like his reply. most of it is incorrect?

    why would you spend 40 hours a week playing? The FM is done in a little over an hour of actual seat time for the fm where you need to get all prizes. 35 minutes if you only needed chests.


    Sure, post a video of you doing it in 40 min without charged armor or Sprint

    We all know you won't because you can't.

    Bort, if you don't post the video of you doing it then all your credibility is gone and we know you have been lying.
    i don't recall claiming to do it in 40 minutes without charged armor or sprint.
  • Ser_Gregor_Clegane
    Ser_Gregor_Clegane
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 2,926

    interesting that the word I typed in was censored...didn't know it was considered profanity these days...I could see it if I dropped an f bomb....

    I thought you quit the game?


    To be fair, your post does come across as very troll-like. I've quit, but it is conditional. I'm not playing until I see what Kixeye does with the FM, but I'm still here to see what happens and try to counter a horrible decision. If the FM stays, I go.

    Forums and playing are two separate things.
    Specs is the only Mod weighing in at the moment, so give him a little latitude.. & if the guy quit but posts, that's his prerogative too.
    I'd expect the same comment too if I quit
    I specialize in wife removal, crushing heads & just violence in general.
    I fear nothing, your pixels are nothing compared to my physical might (8'0", 420lb)
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    bort said:
    Lt_Caine said:
    Comments on new FM seem to mirror those from each new raid:

    - Oh! It is impossible for anyone to do! (Usually made in within first 15 min of raid)
    - I will never return to this stupid game. (Within an hour)
    - Kix has killed the game.  (first day)
    - Well, it is more difficult (Second day after watching Youtube of someone who knows how to drive)
    - Hey, look.  I am 30th in sector! (Third day)
    - Guys.  I got the new hull and the special and the weapon and tokens.... (End of Raid) 
    Except they aren't, are they? Many here aren't complaining it's too hard. They are complaining it's too long and too tedious. It's made a chore even more of a chore. Did you actually read any of the feedback, or did you just assume like trolls always do?

    Also I call bollox on your overview. MANY do not have all the tech and it's not far off the end of the FM. Most have given this a wide birth because it's boring and unreasonable for a weekly task.

    You are right, there is always a sub-set of players who whine before they have even tried. We mostly just ignore them. But you have misread this situation to the highest degree! There are people decrying this change who don't even come on the forums normally. Even some of the trolls are saying they hate this!!! When the trolls and fan-boys turn, you know you have a problem! even big supporters of the game, like the TFC are deeply angered by this!

    I actually have one troll who chats to me on occasion, who is publicly supporting the FM, but in PM has admitted he hates this FM and wont take part! He's just being a troll and trying to annoy people lol
    do it faster then. that's also already been figured out - add that to his list.
    You already admitted to me in PM that these are slower to complete. Don't forget that when you try to look tough and knowledgeable on the forum. You also refused, as always to acknowledge other points, sticking to only what works for you.

    I made a longer post about this, which you can read at your leisure, or ignore, i really don't care. Ultimately, you are a care-bear player who likes to **** dumb Ai. Most players are not. I come from the days when this game used to be about fighting other players, not the PC. Some of us like an actual challenge, not just building what kixeye tells us and then memorizing a pattern like a trained monkey. But hey, if that floats your boat, knock yourself out.

    These targets require refits for most, or total new fleets. They DO take longer to kill and more care, which also wastes time. People who can't refit yet, or don't have the right fleets are taking as much as 5 times as long to kill a single target. Some have used their tokens to catch up, only to find they already need to refit. Noth everyone hordes because they are already sitting pretty like you.

    Again you talk the talk but don't walk the walk, and everyone can see it. You play half the game and tell others that they don't work hard enough or smart enough. totally forgetting not everyone WANTS to play like you do, and they shouldn't have to. If people wanna PvP like the old days, they shouldn't be forced into grinding boring PvE targets. You enjoy it, we don't.
    all of this, you and bort both, evades a more critical question: why on this blue digital earth was a rebalance needed? why? it doesn't matter whether it can be done or not. it's not a question of revenue, that's obvious. so what is it? and, unfortunately, all of the reasonable answers point to a lack of coherent design philosophy.

    i've spent the better part of the last two years telling players quite blithely that their fears and concerns were overblown. i wasn't wrong, but.. why the **** do i keep having this conversation? that's not overblown at all.

    i am too damned tired for this crap.

    look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
    i suspect the rationale is that the absolute toughest targets should not be insta repair.

    i also suspect that because they've given out so many garrison type tokens, much of the player base has significantly improved their fleet from the last garrison raid period.
  • GrumpyReign
    GrumpyReign
    Master Tactician
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 2,360

    interesting that the word I typed in was censored...didn't know it was considered profanity these days...I could see it if I dropped an f bomb....

    I thought you quit the game?


    To be fair, your post does come across as very troll-like. I've quit, but it is conditional. I'm not playing until I see what Kixeye does with the FM, but I'm still here to see what happens and try to counter a horrible decision. If the FM stays, I go.

    Forums and playing are two separate things.
    i mean no disrespect, but this is precisely the mentality that has led us here. "throw us a bone, and we'll forgive the boning you've just delivered."

    it's time to say, "that's **** enough."
    I can feel you judging me. That's palpable. But, hey, I never said I was the hero of this story.
  • david.drake.9678067
    david.drake.9678067
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 804
    bort said:
    bort said:
    Lt_Caine said:
    Comments on new FM seem to mirror those from each new raid:

    - Oh! It is impossible for anyone to do! (Usually made in within first 15 min of raid)
    - I will never return to this stupid game. (Within an hour)
    - Kix has killed the game.  (first day)
    - Well, it is more difficult (Second day after watching Youtube of someone who knows how to drive)
    - Hey, look.  I am 30th in sector! (Third day)
    - Guys.  I got the new hull and the special and the weapon and tokens.... (End of Raid) 
    Except they aren't, are they? Many here aren't complaining it's too hard. They are complaining it's too long and too tedious. It's made a chore even more of a chore. Did you actually read any of the feedback, or did you just assume like trolls always do?

    Also I call bollox on your overview. MANY do not have all the tech and it's not far off the end of the FM. Most have given this a wide birth because it's boring and unreasonable for a weekly task.

    You are right, there is always a sub-set of players who whine before they have even tried. We mostly just ignore them. But you have misread this situation to the highest degree! There are people decrying this change who don't even come on the forums normally. Even some of the trolls are saying they hate this!!! When the trolls and fan-boys turn, you know you have a problem! even big supporters of the game, like the TFC are deeply angered by this!

    I actually have one troll who chats to me on occasion, who is publicly supporting the FM, but in PM has admitted he hates this FM and wont take part! He's just being a troll and trying to annoy people lol
    do it faster then. that's also already been figured out - add that to his list.
    You already admitted to me in PM that these are slower to complete. Don't forget that when you try to look tough and knowledgeable on the forum. You also refused, as always to acknowledge other points, sticking to only what works for you.

    I made a longer post about this, which you can read at your leisure, or ignore, i really don't care. Ultimately, you are a care-bear player who likes to **** dumb Ai. Most players are not. I come from the days when this game used to be about fighting other players, not the PC. Some of us like an actual challenge, not just building what kixeye tells us and then memorizing a pattern like a trained monkey. But hey, if that floats your boat, knock yourself out.

    These targets require refits for most, or total new fleets. They DO take longer to kill and more care, which also wastes time. People who can't refit yet, or don't have the right fleets are taking as much as 5 times as long to kill a single target. Some have used their tokens to catch up, only to find they already need to refit. Noth everyone hordes because they are already sitting pretty like you.

    Again you talk the talk but don't walk the walk, and everyone can see it. You play half the game and tell others that they don't work hard enough or smart enough. totally forgetting not everyone WANTS to play like you do, and they shouldn't have to. If people wanna PvP like the old days, they shouldn't be forced into grinding boring PvE targets. You enjoy it, we don't.
    all of this, you and bort both, evades a more critical question: why on this blue digital earth was a rebalance needed? why? it doesn't matter whether it can be done or not. it's not a question of revenue, that's obvious. so what is it? and, unfortunately, all of the reasonable answers point to a lack of coherent design philosophy.

    i've spent the better part of the last two years telling players quite blithely that their fears and concerns were overblown. i wasn't wrong, but.. why the **** do i keep having this conversation? that's not overblown at all.

    i am too damned tired for this crap.

    look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
    i suspect the rationale is that the absolute toughest targets should not be insta repair.

    i also suspect that because they've given out so many garrison type tokens, much of the player base has significantly improved their fleet from the last garrison raid period




    Garrison and Generalist tokens arent much help when you aren't using those fleet types to kill the rhinos though, just saying
  • leonard.omolecki
    leonard.omolecki
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 76
    I do not like the new raid format. In the 113's I could do a target with icebreakers for 4 hour repair. Now it is a 12 hour repair. Not everyone has all the newest tech including the limited armors that it appears each icebreaker now needs. Also WHY limit the amount of time that you have during a raid to get the chests? THIS IS JUST WRONG!
  • hanz heizer
    hanz heizer
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 1,006
    bort said:
    bort said:
    Lt_Caine said:
    Comments on new FM seem to mirror those from each new raid:

    - Oh! It is impossible for anyone to do! (Usually made in within first 15 min of raid)
    - I will never return to this stupid game. (Within an hour)
    - Kix has killed the game.  (first day)
    - Well, it is more difficult (Second day after watching Youtube of someone who knows how to drive)
    - Hey, look.  I am 30th in sector! (Third day)
    - Guys.  I got the new hull and the special and the weapon and tokens.... (End of Raid) 
    Except they aren't, are they? Many here aren't complaining it's too hard. They are complaining it's too long and too tedious. It's made a chore even more of a chore. Did you actually read any of the feedback, or did you just assume like trolls always do?

    Also I call bollox on your overview. MANY do not have all the tech and it's not far off the end of the FM. Most have given this a wide birth because it's boring and unreasonable for a weekly task.

    You are right, there is always a sub-set of players who whine before they have even tried. We mostly just ignore them. But you have misread this situation to the highest degree! There are people decrying this change who don't even come on the forums normally. Even some of the trolls are saying they hate this!!! When the trolls and fan-boys turn, you know you have a problem! even big supporters of the game, like the TFC are deeply angered by this!

    I actually have one troll who chats to me on occasion, who is publicly supporting the FM, but in PM has admitted he hates this FM and wont take part! He's just being a troll and trying to annoy people lol
    do it faster then. that's also already been figured out - add that to his list.
    You already admitted to me in PM that these are slower to complete. Don't forget that when you try to look tough and knowledgeable on the forum. You also refused, as always to acknowledge other points, sticking to only what works for you.

    I made a longer post about this, which you can read at your leisure, or ignore, i really don't care. Ultimately, you are a care-bear player who likes to **** dumb Ai. Most players are not. I come from the days when this game used to be about fighting other players, not the PC. Some of us like an actual challenge, not just building what kixeye tells us and then memorizing a pattern like a trained monkey. But hey, if that floats your boat, knock yourself out.

    These targets require refits for most, or total new fleets. They DO take longer to kill and more care, which also wastes time. People who can't refit yet, or don't have the right fleets are taking as much as 5 times as long to kill a single target. Some have used their tokens to catch up, only to find they already need to refit. Noth everyone hordes because they are already sitting pretty like you.

    Again you talk the talk but don't walk the walk, and everyone can see it. You play half the game and tell others that they don't work hard enough or smart enough. totally forgetting not everyone WANTS to play like you do, and they shouldn't have to. If people wanna PvP like the old days, they shouldn't be forced into grinding boring PvE targets. You enjoy it, we don't.
    all of this, you and bort both, evades a more critical question: why on this blue digital earth was a rebalance needed? why? it doesn't matter whether it can be done or not. it's not a question of revenue, that's obvious. so what is it? and, unfortunately, all of the reasonable answers point to a lack of coherent design philosophy.

    i've spent the better part of the last two years telling players quite blithely that their fears and concerns were overblown. i wasn't wrong, but.. why the **** do i keep having this conversation? that's not overblown at all.

    i am too damned tired for this crap.

    look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
    i suspect the rationale is that the absolute toughest targets should not be insta repair.

    i also suspect that because they've given out so many garrison type tokens, much of the player base has significantly improved their fleet from the last garrison raid period.
    for the most 113 not been instant,just a heads up ........also funny you think much players run around with full ib fleets,not every 1 is able to do the tlc to get the tokens.same for monos.
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    bort said:
    Lt_Caine said:
    Comments on new FM seem to mirror those from each new raid:

    - Oh! It is impossible for anyone to do! (Usually made in within first 15 min of raid)
    - I will never return to this stupid game. (Within an hour)
    - Kix has killed the game.  (first day)
    - Well, it is more difficult (Second day after watching Youtube of someone who knows how to drive)
    - Hey, look.  I am 30th in sector! (Third day)
    - Guys.  I got the new hull and the special and the weapon and tokens.... (End of Raid) 
    Except they aren't, are they? Many here aren't complaining it's too hard. They are complaining it's too long and too tedious. It's made a chore even more of a chore. Did you actually read any of the feedback, or did you just assume like trolls always do?

    Also I call bollox on your overview. MANY do not have all the tech and it's not far off the end of the FM. Most have given this a wide birth because it's boring and unreasonable for a weekly task.

    You are right, there is always a sub-set of players who whine before they have even tried. We mostly just ignore them. But you have misread this situation to the highest degree! There are people decrying this change who don't even come on the forums normally. Even some of the trolls are saying they hate this!!! When the trolls and fan-boys turn, you know you have a problem! even big supporters of the game, like the TFC are deeply angered by this!

    I actually have one troll who chats to me on occasion, who is publicly supporting the FM, but in PM has admitted he hates this FM and wont take part! He's just being a troll and trying to annoy people lol
    do it faster then. that's also already been figured out - add that to his list.
    You already admitted to me in PM that these are slower to complete. Don't forget that when you try to look tough and knowledgeable on the forum. You also refused, as always to acknowledge other points, sticking to only what works for you.

    I made a longer post about this, which you can read at your leisure, or ignore, i really don't care. Ultimately, you are a care-bear player who likes to **** dumb Ai. Most players are not. I come from the days when this game used to be about fighting other players, not the PC. Some of us like an actual challenge, not just building what kixeye tells us and then memorizing a pattern like a trained monkey. But hey, if that floats your boat, knock yourself out.

    These targets require refits for most, or total new fleets. They DO take longer to kill and more care, which also wastes time. People who can't refit yet, or don't have the right fleets are taking as much as 5 times as long to kill a single target. Some have used their tokens to catch up, only to find they already need to refit. Noth everyone hordes because they are already sitting pretty like you.

    Again you talk the talk but don't walk the walk, and everyone can see it. You play half the game and tell others that they don't work hard enough or smart enough. totally forgetting not everyone WANTS to play like you do, and they shouldn't have to. If people wanna PvP like the old days, they shouldn't be forced into grinding boring PvE targets. You enjoy it, we don't.
    i didnt say do it faster than before. i said do it faster than they're currently doing now. many of those complaining about the time are retreating multiple times.

    yes it is slower .. maybe half an hour per month in theory for some. for me its either the same or quicker, because i was driving zelos monos before.

    i'm pretty sure pve is more popular than pvp. i dont have access to kixeye data, but based on the amount they spend developing pve versus pvp, i'd take an educated guess that pve is vastly more popular. 

    depends on what you call the old days too. people have needed to access pvp ships via pvp literally always. the huge swings between offence and defence power also limits why a lot of people enjoy pvp less. Therefore to describe it as an actual challenge as you have, is a bit of a stretch. as opposed to the PvE side which is a constantly balanced challenge.

    i have not commented on the lower level targets for the lowers to catch up with. i'll leave that to others who have actually experienced them.

    For me these days i have more pvp ships than ever, and i had my conq shipyard within a day of it being released. i could choose to do pvp, but i dont, because there is generally zero reward so i dont put in the effort.
  • Specialist aka Specs
    Specialist aka Specs
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 9,395
    edited 6 Nov 2017, 1:30AM

    interesting that the word I typed in was censored...didn't know it was considered profanity these days...I could see it if I dropped an f bomb....

    I thought you quit the game?


    To be fair, your post does come across as very troll-like. I've quit, but it is conditional. I'm not playing until I see what Kixeye does with the FM, but I'm still here to see what happens and try to counter a horrible decision. If the FM stays, I go.

    Forums and playing are two separate things.
    I just want to know if he is back or not :) Crazy I know. but when I quit a game I do not come back to post on the forums. But then I do not have separation issues. 
  • Proteus-606
    Proteus-606
    Master Tactician
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 2,195
    bort said:
    FishBite said:
    bort said:
    FishBite said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    beel78 said:
    I would like to start of by saying thank you for the repair tokens for fleets that are doing the weekly mission this is where the positives end 

    I am a lvl 121 player who has been playing the game for 4 years now i would consider my self a big coiner the reason for me coining is i really enjoyed your game the excitement of logging in to see if my base had been hit and if so after i repair getting revenge by hitting them back maybe even someone from the alliance i am in could help me do this the interaction with other players not just in my alliance but in sector comms over the past year the content overload has gotten to an unbelievable stage that when i log in i dont even care if my base has been hit the 1st thing i look at is do i need URANIUM , do i need TITANIUM , do i need BASE PARTS do i need to do the WEEKLY FORSAKEN MISSION , do i need RES , do i need to do the DAILY CAMPAIGN , do i need to do any TIME LIMITED CAMPAIGNS , these 7 things that i HATE to do have become the game i now play there is no time to hit bases to have FUN it takes so dam long to do all the CHORES that are now in the game , yes i could auto them but the cost of this is also unreal i have never minded paying for repairs but its got to be reasonable to what you are getting in return and its just NOT !!! 

    Now with what you have done to the weekly targets this is just the most ridiculous single update you have ever done in the game its not only the INCREASED  insane damage that the 115 represents its the fact that you are willing to do this to your player base and this brings me on to a more worrying fact IF you are willing to do this to the FM the most important aspect in the game bar none then you could do it to any aspect of the game  i build a fleet to do the FM and i fully expected it to do the FM till June/July not Nov like it is now so as an end result you have now lost credibility as a company i have 0 faith in you now and without faith in you as a company and with the enjoyment factor being at an all time low there is no reason to coin 

    I URGE YOU yes YOU KIXEYE to look at what you have done in the FM the changes YOU MADE and the consequences they have in the game and not even just the impact it has had to players who are now suffering in the FM other wise YOUR GAME will end without players there is NO game maybe you will change it back to the old targets maybe you wont maybe you will make drastic changes to the 2 new targets maybe you wont but its in your hands and i implore you i urge you other wise the days of battle pirates are numbered  
    LOL you got to be kidding me as a matter of fact all you guys and gals are what word should i say well anyways stop posting the same crap and leave already or play the game but the FM is what it is build a fleet for it or move to the next part you think you can do but stop all the ###### about the new targets they are not that bad with the right build !! 
    Nope not kidding i can do the 115 for 1 hour 20 mins repair with icebreakers in 1 hit but if you cant see how this change is bad for the game then i not sure what to say ......... you say for players to leave the game if enough do this then there will not be a game , what kixeye have done is they wanted the target changed with 0 thought given to the players and the effect it will have them on the short term or long term is the most worrying thing 
    not arguing but using IB/VIB fleet as well and only do it in one hit, would like to see a video on a how to with that repair time.  I am down to three hours per 115 but, I would love some advice or tips on how to get it down to 80 min.
    george's vid is 1h30m with him putting in very little effort to drive with any caution.

    i suspect we'll easily see under 1 hour with an IB fleet. i'm confident mine will do it after my next refit, but i have a fang in my shipyard at the moment, and obviously i'm saving all my tokens and chests coming into the raid, just like everyone else, so cant speed it up.
    This is a big issue though. We were all told our fleets from the garrison raid would be good for a year.

    This being the case, many didn't build IB's or even monos in some cases. They didn't need to. They built what they were TOLD they needed and it worked. Emp/zel fleets could walk the raids and the old FM for example.
    Due to this many didn't bother struggling through all the garrison TLC reruns either, because AGAIN, they were TOLD they didn't need to. It was optional. Also, in order to get a full fleet of IB's built instantly and not interfere with more pressing builds, you needed to fully run the IB TLC repeatedly and there are no rank tokens offered for them either.

    Basically, if you were able to do the FM last week, you now might not be able to do this at all, or at least will be taking unreasonable damage. Meaning you now have to build another fleet! And you even said yourself, our yards are still busy with current raid fleets!

    The only option to finish this FM in any time close to the original time is with IB's. Not everyone has them and it's unreasonable to expect people to build them now with another garrison raid being just around the corner and current fleets building. And after Kix said there would be no change!

    Kixeye are making this game more and more about the top 10%, because they have an unscrupulous and very poor business model. That's all there is to it. 
    you know this is a strategy game right?

    Getting tokens gives you options to ensure you're not getting caught with your pants down. Resting on having one fleet that currently does the job is asking to get caught with your pants down.

    A year is a long time. A lot changes. We've had close to 1,000 days of build tokens given out since that last garrison raid. I dont recall them announcing they were going to give away 1,000 days of build tokens either, but they have. 

    Also, if there is another garrison raid around the corner, won't many players pick up better ships then anyways?
    So you say its our fault for resting on ONE fleet to do the job. Thats interesting since you also blast people for what you call " wasting" shipyard time building un-necessary fleets. So what are we meant to do? By your logic we need to build two fleets for every chore in the game. Catch is most are struggling to build ONE fleet for a chore and IF they get it finished in time then they are building for the next chore. There is no point building a second FM fleet when your current one ( before the FM changes ) worked and you needed to build a raid fleet.
    what do you do?

    You pick up the tokens in the TLCs for older, but still useful hulls wherever you can, rather than just leave them because you already have a fleet built. No kidding. done that.

    You pick up the tokens in TLCs for the secondary current raid fleet. The hunter was extremely simple to get first time round as a recent example. Maybe simple IF you got a FULL fleet of skyfires but some of us only had time to build a phoenix fleet and not having a FULL FLEET of skyfires makes finishing the hunter tlc rather HARD.

    You pick up extra ship tokens in raids if you have spare points. No kidding

    Catch is, you've only needed ONE of the raid fleets to keep up in the raids. And put in a bit more effort. For those of us who are caught up TWO has been easy to build with tokens and existing shipyard time. Well this contradicts your point above about building TWO FLEETS. AND I HAVE PUT THE EFFORT IN. I got the T5 chest this FM. What you FORGET is the FM is mant to be for LOWER lvls to catch up. How can they do that when low-mid lvls can't get T3 anymore.

    For monos/IBs there have been that many tokens given out you could have build FIVE FM fleets using only a couple months of shipyard time. I have a few spares build. The snag is as I only have ONE repair queue I could have 20 gazillion FM fleets; but I can still only REPAIR ONE FLEET AT A TIME so spare fleets DON'T help much.

    Using shipyard time for building unnecessary fleets is when you build punishers when you have a zelos print available. Or build citadels when you have monos/ibs available. Or as i've heard in comms even quite recently building vendettas when the player did not have a decent FM fleet. Its really not a difficult concept to get. Maybe read it a few more times and you'll get it. Oh I get it all right, you tell people to build spare fleets then you tell them its their fault they wasted shipyard time on 2 fleets. You keep contracting yourself. Try reading what you post next time.



    I would give this post a double like.   :) 

    The problem is not everyone is some elite player who spends 40 hours a week playing.     We just wanna log in and have some fun.  Grinding FM means no PvP
    why would you like his reply. most of it is incorrect?

    why would you spend 40 hours a week playing? The FM is done in a little over an hour of actual seat time for the fm where you need to get all prizes. 35 minutes if you only needed chests.


    Sure, post a video of you doing it in 40 min without charged armor or Sprint

    We all know you won't because you can't.

    Bort, if you don't post the video of you doing it then all your credibility is gone and we know you have been lying.
    i don't recall claiming to do it in 40 minutes without charged armor or sprint.
    I did see you mention somewhere else I think that you didn't use either, but i could be wrong, and you did say just above, it could be done in 35 mins.

    So you can do it in 35 mins, yes or no?
    Coming Soon in Kixeye land means "When Satan need to put the heating on"
  • Proteus-606
    Proteus-606
    Master Tactician
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 2,195

    interesting that the word I typed in was censored...didn't know it was considered profanity these days...I could see it if I dropped an f bomb....

    I thought you quit the game?


    To be fair, your post does come across as very troll-like. I've quit, but it is conditional. I'm not playing until I see what Kixeye does with the FM, but I'm still here to see what happens and try to counter a horrible decision. If the FM stays, I go.

    Forums and playing are two separate things.
    I just want to know if he is back or not :) Crazy I know, but when I quit a game I do not come back to post on the forums. But then I do not have separation issues. 
    The fact is, many have quit because they despise the way Kixeye behaves, but they still would like to play the game. There is a lot of time investment in this game. Like I said, I've quit temporarily, but would return in the event of a roll back or serious changes to the FM. How will I know if the FM has changed if I don't monitor the forums? And while I'm here, i may as well have my 2 cents (or dollars lol)

    I'll give the benefit of the doubt, but that seemed a very loaded question to me.
    Coming Soon in Kixeye land means "When Satan need to put the heating on"
  • GrumpyReign
    GrumpyReign
    Master Tactician
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 2,360
    bort said:
    bort said:
    Lt_Caine said:
    Comments on new FM seem to mirror those from each new raid:

    - Oh! It is impossible for anyone to do! (Usually made in within first 15 min of raid)
    - I will never return to this stupid game. (Within an hour)
    - Kix has killed the game.  (first day)
    - Well, it is more difficult (Second day after watching Youtube of someone who knows how to drive)
    - Hey, look.  I am 30th in sector! (Third day)
    - Guys.  I got the new hull and the special and the weapon and tokens.... (End of Raid) 
    Except they aren't, are they? Many here aren't complaining it's too hard. They are complaining it's too long and too tedious. It's made a chore even more of a chore. Did you actually read any of the feedback, or did you just assume like trolls always do?

    Also I call bollox on your overview. MANY do not have all the tech and it's not far off the end of the FM. Most have given this a wide birth because it's boring and unreasonable for a weekly task.

    You are right, there is always a sub-set of players who whine before they have even tried. We mostly just ignore them. But you have misread this situation to the highest degree! There are people decrying this change who don't even come on the forums normally. Even some of the trolls are saying they hate this!!! When the trolls and fan-boys turn, you know you have a problem! even big supporters of the game, like the TFC are deeply angered by this!

    I actually have one troll who chats to me on occasion, who is publicly supporting the FM, but in PM has admitted he hates this FM and wont take part! He's just being a troll and trying to annoy people lol
    do it faster then. that's also already been figured out - add that to his list.
    You already admitted to me in PM that these are slower to complete. Don't forget that when you try to look tough and knowledgeable on the forum. You also refused, as always to acknowledge other points, sticking to only what works for you.

    I made a longer post about this, which you can read at your leisure, or ignore, i really don't care. Ultimately, you are a care-bear player who likes to **** dumb Ai. Most players are not. I come from the days when this game used to be about fighting other players, not the PC. Some of us like an actual challenge, not just building what kixeye tells us and then memorizing a pattern like a trained monkey. But hey, if that floats your boat, knock yourself out.

    These targets require refits for most, or total new fleets. They DO take longer to kill and more care, which also wastes time. People who can't refit yet, or don't have the right fleets are taking as much as 5 times as long to kill a single target. Some have used their tokens to catch up, only to find they already need to refit. Noth everyone hordes because they are already sitting pretty like you.

    Again you talk the talk but don't walk the walk, and everyone can see it. You play half the game and tell others that they don't work hard enough or smart enough. totally forgetting not everyone WANTS to play like you do, and they shouldn't have to. If people wanna PvP like the old days, they shouldn't be forced into grinding boring PvE targets. You enjoy it, we don't.
    all of this, you and bort both, evades a more critical question: why on this blue digital earth was a rebalance needed? why? it doesn't matter whether it can be done or not. it's not a question of revenue, that's obvious. so what is it? and, unfortunately, all of the reasonable answers point to a lack of coherent design philosophy.

    i've spent the better part of the last two years telling players quite blithely that their fears and concerns were overblown. i wasn't wrong, but.. why the **** do i keep having this conversation? that's not overblown at all.

    i am too damned tired for this crap.

    look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
    i suspect the rationale is that the absolute toughest targets should not be insta repair.

    i also suspect that because they've given out so many garrison type tokens, much of the player base has significantly improved their fleet from the last garrison raid period.
    what difference does it make to anyone whether the fm is instant repair or not? the raid is where the revenue is. this is understood and accepted.
    I can feel you judging me. That's palpable. But, hey, I never said I was the hero of this story.
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    bort said:
    bort said:
    Lt_Caine said:
    Comments on new FM seem to mirror those from each new raid:

    - Oh! It is impossible for anyone to do! (Usually made in within first 15 min of raid)
    - I will never return to this stupid game. (Within an hour)
    - Kix has killed the game.  (first day)
    - Well, it is more difficult (Second day after watching Youtube of someone who knows how to drive)
    - Hey, look.  I am 30th in sector! (Third day)
    - Guys.  I got the new hull and the special and the weapon and tokens.... (End of Raid) 
    Except they aren't, are they? Many here aren't complaining it's too hard. They are complaining it's too long and too tedious. It's made a chore even more of a chore. Did you actually read any of the feedback, or did you just assume like trolls always do?

    Also I call bollox on your overview. MANY do not have all the tech and it's not far off the end of the FM. Most have given this a wide birth because it's boring and unreasonable for a weekly task.

    You are right, there is always a sub-set of players who whine before they have even tried. We mostly just ignore them. But you have misread this situation to the highest degree! There are people decrying this change who don't even come on the forums normally. Even some of the trolls are saying they hate this!!! When the trolls and fan-boys turn, you know you have a problem! even big supporters of the game, like the TFC are deeply angered by this!

    I actually have one troll who chats to me on occasion, who is publicly supporting the FM, but in PM has admitted he hates this FM and wont take part! He's just being a troll and trying to annoy people lol
    do it faster then. that's also already been figured out - add that to his list.
    You already admitted to me in PM that these are slower to complete. Don't forget that when you try to look tough and knowledgeable on the forum. You also refused, as always to acknowledge other points, sticking to only what works for you.

    I made a longer post about this, which you can read at your leisure, or ignore, i really don't care. Ultimately, you are a care-bear player who likes to **** dumb Ai. Most players are not. I come from the days when this game used to be about fighting other players, not the PC. Some of us like an actual challenge, not just building what kixeye tells us and then memorizing a pattern like a trained monkey. But hey, if that floats your boat, knock yourself out.

    These targets require refits for most, or total new fleets. They DO take longer to kill and more care, which also wastes time. People who can't refit yet, or don't have the right fleets are taking as much as 5 times as long to kill a single target. Some have used their tokens to catch up, only to find they already need to refit. Noth everyone hordes because they are already sitting pretty like you.

    Again you talk the talk but don't walk the walk, and everyone can see it. You play half the game and tell others that they don't work hard enough or smart enough. totally forgetting not everyone WANTS to play like you do, and they shouldn't have to. If people wanna PvP like the old days, they shouldn't be forced into grinding boring PvE targets. You enjoy it, we don't.
    all of this, you and bort both, evades a more critical question: why on this blue digital earth was a rebalance needed? why? it doesn't matter whether it can be done or not. it's not a question of revenue, that's obvious. so what is it? and, unfortunately, all of the reasonable answers point to a lack of coherent design philosophy.

    i've spent the better part of the last two years telling players quite blithely that their fears and concerns were overblown. i wasn't wrong, but.. why the **** do i keep having this conversation? that's not overblown at all.

    i am too damned tired for this crap.

    look on my works, ye mighty, and despair.
    i suspect the rationale is that the absolute toughest targets should not be insta repair.

    i also suspect that because they've given out so many garrison type tokens, much of the player base has significantly improved their fleet from the last garrison raid period.
    what difference does it make to anyone whether the fm is instant repair or not? the raid is where the revenue is. this is understood and accepted.
    perhaps. but perhaps not. and there may be a correlation too.
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    bort said:
    FishBite said:
    bort said:
    FishBite said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    beel78 said:
    I would like to start of by saying thank you for the repair tokens for fleets that are doing the weekly mission this is where the positives end 

    I am a lvl 121 player who has been playing the game for 4 years now i would consider my self a big coiner the reason for me coining is i really enjoyed your game the excitement of logging in to see if my base had been hit and if so after i repair getting revenge by hitting them back maybe even someone from the alliance i am in could help me do this the interaction with other players not just in my alliance but in sector comms over the past year the content overload has gotten to an unbelievable stage that when i log in i dont even care if my base has been hit the 1st thing i look at is do i need URANIUM , do i need TITANIUM , do i need BASE PARTS do i need to do the WEEKLY FORSAKEN MISSION , do i need RES , do i need to do the DAILY CAMPAIGN , do i need to do any TIME LIMITED CAMPAIGNS , these 7 things that i HATE to do have become the game i now play there is no time to hit bases to have FUN it takes so dam long to do all the CHORES that are now in the game , yes i could auto them but the cost of this is also unreal i have never minded paying for repairs but its got to be reasonable to what you are getting in return and its just NOT !!! 

    Now with what you have done to the weekly targets this is just the most ridiculous single update you have ever done in the game its not only the INCREASED  insane damage that the 115 represents its the fact that you are willing to do this to your player base and this brings me on to a more worrying fact IF you are willing to do this to the FM the most important aspect in the game bar none then you could do it to any aspect of the game  i build a fleet to do the FM and i fully expected it to do the FM till June/July not Nov like it is now so as an end result you have now lost credibility as a company i have 0 faith in you now and without faith in you as a company and with the enjoyment factor being at an all time low there is no reason to coin 

    I URGE YOU yes YOU KIXEYE to look at what you have done in the FM the changes YOU MADE and the consequences they have in the game and not even just the impact it has had to players who are now suffering in the FM other wise YOUR GAME will end without players there is NO game maybe you will change it back to the old targets maybe you wont maybe you will make drastic changes to the 2 new targets maybe you wont but its in your hands and i implore you i urge you other wise the days of battle pirates are numbered  
    LOL you got to be kidding me as a matter of fact all you guys and gals are what word should i say well anyways stop posting the same crap and leave already or play the game but the FM is what it is build a fleet for it or move to the next part you think you can do but stop all the ###### about the new targets they are not that bad with the right build !! 
    Nope not kidding i can do the 115 for 1 hour 20 mins repair with icebreakers in 1 hit but if you cant see how this change is bad for the game then i not sure what to say ......... you say for players to leave the game if enough do this then there will not be a game , what kixeye have done is they wanted the target changed with 0 thought given to the players and the effect it will have them on the short term or long term is the most worrying thing 
    not arguing but using IB/VIB fleet as well and only do it in one hit, would like to see a video on a how to with that repair time.  I am down to three hours per 115 but, I would love some advice or tips on how to get it down to 80 min.
    george's vid is 1h30m with him putting in very little effort to drive with any caution.

    i suspect we'll easily see under 1 hour with an IB fleet. i'm confident mine will do it after my next refit, but i have a fang in my shipyard at the moment, and obviously i'm saving all my tokens and chests coming into the raid, just like everyone else, so cant speed it up.
    This is a big issue though. We were all told our fleets from the garrison raid would be good for a year.

    This being the case, many didn't build IB's or even monos in some cases. They didn't need to. They built what they were TOLD they needed and it worked. Emp/zel fleets could walk the raids and the old FM for example.
    Due to this many didn't bother struggling through all the garrison TLC reruns either, because AGAIN, they were TOLD they didn't need to. It was optional. Also, in order to get a full fleet of IB's built instantly and not interfere with more pressing builds, you needed to fully run the IB TLC repeatedly and there are no rank tokens offered for them either.

    Basically, if you were able to do the FM last week, you now might not be able to do this at all, or at least will be taking unreasonable damage. Meaning you now have to build another fleet! And you even said yourself, our yards are still busy with current raid fleets!

    The only option to finish this FM in any time close to the original time is with IB's. Not everyone has them and it's unreasonable to expect people to build them now with another garrison raid being just around the corner and current fleets building. And after Kix said there would be no change!

    Kixeye are making this game more and more about the top 10%, because they have an unscrupulous and very poor business model. That's all there is to it. 
    you know this is a strategy game right?

    Getting tokens gives you options to ensure you're not getting caught with your pants down. Resting on having one fleet that currently does the job is asking to get caught with your pants down.

    A year is a long time. A lot changes. We've had close to 1,000 days of build tokens given out since that last garrison raid. I dont recall them announcing they were going to give away 1,000 days of build tokens either, but they have. 

    Also, if there is another garrison raid around the corner, won't many players pick up better ships then anyways?
    So you say its our fault for resting on ONE fleet to do the job. Thats interesting since you also blast people for what you call " wasting" shipyard time building un-necessary fleets. So what are we meant to do? By your logic we need to build two fleets for every chore in the game. Catch is most are struggling to build ONE fleet for a chore and IF they get it finished in time then they are building for the next chore. There is no point building a second FM fleet when your current one ( before the FM changes ) worked and you needed to build a raid fleet.
    what do you do?

    You pick up the tokens in the TLCs for older, but still useful hulls wherever you can, rather than just leave them because you already have a fleet built. No kidding. done that.

    You pick up the tokens in TLCs for the secondary current raid fleet. The hunter was extremely simple to get first time round as a recent example. Maybe simple IF you got a FULL fleet of skyfires but some of us only had time to build a phoenix fleet and not having a FULL FLEET of skyfires makes finishing the hunter tlc rather HARD.

    You pick up extra ship tokens in raids if you have spare points. No kidding

    Catch is, you've only needed ONE of the raid fleets to keep up in the raids. And put in a bit more effort. For those of us who are caught up TWO has been easy to build with tokens and existing shipyard time. Well this contradicts your point above about building TWO FLEETS. AND I HAVE PUT THE EFFORT IN. I got the T5 chest this FM. What you FORGET is the FM is mant to be for LOWER lvls to catch up. How can they do that when low-mid lvls can't get T3 anymore.

    For monos/IBs there have been that many tokens given out you could have build FIVE FM fleets using only a couple months of shipyard time. I have a few spares build. The snag is as I only have ONE repair queue I could have 20 gazillion FM fleets; but I can still only REPAIR ONE FLEET AT A TIME so spare fleets DON'T help much.

    Using shipyard time for building unnecessary fleets is when you build punishers when you have a zelos print available. Or build citadels when you have monos/ibs available. Or as i've heard in comms even quite recently building vendettas when the player did not have a decent FM fleet. Its really not a difficult concept to get. Maybe read it a few more times and you'll get it. Oh I get it all right, you tell people to build spare fleets then you tell them its their fault they wasted shipyard time on 2 fleets. You keep contracting yourself. Try reading what you post next time.



    I would give this post a double like.   :) 

    The problem is not everyone is some elite player who spends 40 hours a week playing.     We just wanna log in and have some fun.  Grinding FM means no PvP
    why would you like his reply. most of it is incorrect?

    why would you spend 40 hours a week playing? The FM is done in a little over an hour of actual seat time for the fm where you need to get all prizes. 35 minutes if you only needed chests.


    Sure, post a video of you doing it in 40 min without charged armor or Sprint

    We all know you won't because you can't.

    Bort, if you don't post the video of you doing it then all your credibility is gone and we know you have been lying.
    i don't recall claiming to do it in 40 minutes without charged armor or sprint.
    I did see you mention somewhere else I think that you didn't use either, but i could be wrong, and you did say just above, it could be done in 35 mins.

    So you can do it in 35 mins, yes or no?
    seat time in the targets. not elapsed time. although once i refit with what i think will work it might get closer.
  • kixeyeuser_1359553186907_17185_1076521574
    kixeyeuser_1359553186907_17185_1076521574
    Potential Threat
    Joined Apr 2014 Posts: 50
    Just came back to see if I could do the new FM.  the lowest point prize is 800,000 and I can get 400 points each time I hit a 47.  Level 49 base.  Had a bit of help when Kix didn't lock that down.  Had it not been for others I would have quit.  Now for FM I will only need to hit 20,000 level 47s to get any prize.  Twenty THOUSAND. 
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