FM / Update Discussion 11/1

  • Ser_Gregor_Clegane
    Ser_Gregor_Clegane
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 2,926
    So, as the player base shrinks, the costs go up. 40k players online across Kixeyes' server-are they running an event on another of their games? Last year it was 100k, the year before, 170k. 
    How many players across the spectrum have said "Screw this?" in the last 2 years?

    A whopping 130k players. That's a loss of 1,000 players a week. This is a company that's going down.
    I specialize in wife removal, crushing heads & just violence in general.
    I fear nothing, your pixels are nothing compared to my physical might (8'0", 420lb)
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    bort said:
    you get 8 days of build tokens in PP1 & PP2.

    they have run that tlc quite a number of times. and each time you do it you'd have better stuff.

    novastorms are junk. zelos alone will do 115s even. and the lower levels at instant repair once built up a bit.

    you have to put in at least a tiny bit of effort to catch up if you're behind. they're handing out stuff like those tokens left and right to push people up. 
        Sorry, but that account has always run coin free. It's never going to load a single coin. Those "junk" Novastorms (Chaos & Pandamonium morts, 50-60% rank) were doing 88s fine with the Pun lead. No, PPs 1 & 2 are out of range for that account. With 6 hours to run PP1, yes, I could use the repair tokens on hand due to this FM debacle to get through PP1, but what about PP2, with a 3 hour time limit? 
        Those "junk" Novastorms were able to take chunks out of the old 109s to get to tier 4 in the weekly in the previous format. In fact, they didn't do too badly at that task. Others in sector were generous in cleaning up the "mess" I made with them, as they saw that account was trying to get ahead with crap. I actually found the Novas to be quite decent for a low level, (much better than the Dreadnaughts used previously) & yes, there are Zerk & Citadel blueprints available, but let's face it, they're a bit "junky" at this stage of the game too.
    8 days of tokens? That's so generous. That's 2/3 of a completed Icebreaker. (based on the tech that account has, or "could have" if that TLC was completed) It would then take, based upon a 4-hull fleet on that build, due to dock weight limits (I'm going to now magically make it a better dock, to make it a 5 hull fleet here-so 57 days) of 53-54 minus the tokens so now 46 or so days to make an Icebreaker fleet to do the FM, not forgetting the ranking. (as well as getting the res in-for the 5 hull fleet, that's over 2 billion res in total.) Just to be generous, let's assume that the TLC is run once a month after, so we'll shave off another 16 days. That's still over a month for a "decent" FM fleet. 
        The tech for that account is a tad limited compared to what many others have. There is no serious tech available to build an OFFENSIVE Zelos excepting with the following: Squall launchers (or even worse, D91-U) (no boosting tech for those) Crossbows (ridiculous reload time) & PACs (limited punch unless the PAC effect takes place) & that's a darn sight more than what a player that level would have working by themselves, with no help whatsoever. I very much doubt that Blades would be of any use in the 115s except vs the fleets in them (Yes, that account has the Blade missile.)
        Quite simply, do you believe that any low level has to A: Coin rebuild his or her FM fleet to suit, or B: make do with what they have hitting the lower targets whilst doing A on the cheap.? Why should someone hit low-end targets over & over (like in the old days on the 22-27s, which could be auto'd with even battle barges) & spend their life doing such a task? How mind-numbing.
    There are better games out there.

    Yes, they're "handing out tokens" but you still have to coin in order to get somewhere in those TLCs unless you have a decent fleet to do it with. That's what this game is becoming, a money scam. & many are getting tired of it. I do understand the concept of grinding. My main has ground on B sets in raids in the past, keeping costs way down, & has exceeded 100 mil last year twice doing so in hull store raids. How many B-sets does it take to make 100 million points? F'ing heaps lol.

    I feel very bad for any brand new player here. What are they to hit low end targets with? Lev-As? Hammerheads? At what level? Assuming that they're not getting any help at all, or don't wish to have the help. Are they able to access much better hulls via the Foundry hitting the FM targets, like they could last year? (sorry, a little out of date on this question)

    This game was enjoyable once. Now.. It's becoming Chore Pirates. Screw that.
    Junk is a relative term.

    Everything in the game becomes junk over time. FF was once king of the seas.

    You now pick up the citadel print at level 30 which takes one week of play after opening a new account. THerefore largely everything weaker than a citadel is junk in the current game.

    You can't live in the past. You need to look on how to improve from where you're at and what is currently available

    Level 59 could be achieved in 2 months. That is a low level to me still. If you concentrated on that account you'd be able to find a path forward. If you have any skill. If you get a hand from other players, that path forward would be even easier.
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    edited 4 Nov 2017, 8:04PM
    FishBite said:
    bort said:
    Zork13266 said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    beel78 said:
    bort said:
    Altonator said:
    14 Targets  is unacceptable  to win what previously took 7 Targets  !
    you realise once you've got all the fm prizes for the month it drops to half for the following FMs right?
    which is kind of a moot point when the targets require a lot more seat time and the rewards are a lot less.
    my ibs do the 115 targets quicker than my zelos mono fleet did the 113s.

    i suspect my total seat time is marginally different.

    more enjoyable though, as i prefer driving my speedy ibs compared with mono/zelos.
    Great for you Bort...After all this is all about you isn't it.

    What about people who dont' have IB's...Now go pull  your head out!
    they follow one of the vids that uses zelos?

    they do the pretty simple tlcs to pick up IBs and IB tokens?

    OK. I tried the TLC you mentioned. A Zelos & 2 Citadels. Fine, I got PP1 & 2 done from both of those TLCs. PP3 with that tech is impossible however. & that's where the goodies like rank tokens & a bunch more stuff is.
    My L59 alt has tried. A brand new Zelos (complete with Tridents) & some Novastorms. Isn't happening. That account has never coined, & never will. In essence, that account is screwed now, it never raided (time & tech considerations) it WAS getting Tier 4 in the FM in the last few weeks (after a very long break, just as the main has had a very long break) & now it can't FM without grinding. So that account it pretty much screwed-like many other smaller accounts in the game.
    Why should people coin those TLCs (if they don't have the good hulls in the 1st place) on what is now a very much dying game.?

    Kix ruined the FM. & in the process, has ruined the game for many.
    you get 8 days of build tokens in PP1 & PP2.

    they have run that tlc quite a number of times. and each time you do it you'd have better stuff.

    novastorms are junk. zelos alone will do 115s even. and the lower levels at instant repair once built up a bit.

    you have to put in at least a tiny bit of effort to catch up if you're behind. they're handing out stuff like those tokens left and right to push people up. 
    TLCs are not designed as a catch-up mission... They are designed to grab extra coin from players who don't have the best of everything and want to be able to enjoy the game more by making a task easier...

    Yes there are plenty of tokens available if you have the right fleet(s) to do them...
    Players at the top-end of the Tech Curve have no trouble getting them...

    Everyone else comes up against a significant barrier somewhere around the last or 2nd last Prize Pack where most of the tokens are...
    Most of the final ones need Charged Armors and a full fleet to be successful due to the damage in them... Not everyone has enough Armors or has a good enough Raid fleet to have got them from there...

    Then you also have to factor in the one thing those tokens don't address... Repair time...
    Doing TLCs with a sub-optimal fleet as a "lower tech"ed player really cranks up the damage... Add to that repairs from all the other chore targets ( U, Parts, Ti and FM ) and Repair Time becomes as important as the Build Time... Personally, For my Chore Fleets my Dock has looked like it's after a VXP weekend every week for the last couple of months...

    The updated FM effectively means forget TLCs or forget FM you won't be able to keep everything you need for both of them  repaired...
    that example of a TLC there is literally 8 days of tokens you could pick up with low tech.

    those lower levels of the TLCs are 100% a catch up for lower players. I had 80 spare tokens for IBs .... giving me another 8 doesnt make any difference at all.
    Not true at all.  Without charged armor there is no way IB can do a 115.  That is not low level tech
    Put in a small amount of effort.

    2 charged armor in the entire fleet is enough to do a 115 at the moment. The toughest possible FM target. And I suspect people will figure out how to do it with even less.

    But then again if you're determined to fail, you are going to be spectacularly successful at failing.

    If you're determined to succeed in the game, the tools are there, the information is there. You just need to put in the effort.

    Yes, a lot of people like taking the failure route. Same as life in general really.
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    This about sums it up...


    except you can still keep up for a cost of $0.
  • mosicman
    mosicman
    Greenhorn
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 3
    Proteus-606 said:AMEN BROTHER WELL SAID

    This about sums it up...



  • BATTLE PETER
    BATTLE PETER
    Greenhorn
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 5
    I was able to do the weekly without much pain before. Now I will have to "grind" if i want to do it. It is too much to ask. I cant grind a raid every month and all the other chores and now the weekly
  • alan.cumberlidge
    alan.cumberlidge
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 5
    the fun has been taken out of this game by kixeye trying to rinse as much money as they can from players. we used to have lots of fvf battles alliance v alliance, base hitting and defending.
    Now its monthly raid and trying to get a fleet built for the next monthly raid trying to get specials in the weekly and NO FUN.
    The only players that can do this are coiners,
    Now the weekly has been turned into an almost impossible task. scoring 20,000 per hit and you need 1.5 million to get a prize worth having that means you need to complete 75 hits. you need the weekly to get the specials to get the hulls in the monthly.
    Too many hulls as soon as you build a fleet a month later its out of date.
    Monthly raids should be every three months.no wonder why so many players are leaving

  • Ser_Gregor_Clegane
    Ser_Gregor_Clegane
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 2,926
    bort said:
    bort said:
    you get 8 days of build tokens in PP1 & PP2.

    they have run that tlc quite a number of times. and each time you do it you'd have better stuff.

    novastorms are junk. zelos alone will do 115s even. and the lower levels at instant repair once built up a bit.

    you have to put in at least a tiny bit of effort to catch up if you're behind. they're handing out stuff like those tokens left and right to push people up. 
        Sorry, but that account has always run coin free. It's never going to load a single coin. Those "junk" Novastorms (Chaos & Pandamonium morts, 50-60% rank) were doing 88s fine with the Pun lead. No, PPs 1 & 2 are out of range for that account. With 6 hours to run PP1, yes, I could use the repair tokens on hand due to this FM debacle to get through PP1, but what about PP2, with a 3 hour time limit? 
        Those "junk" Novastorms were able to take chunks out of the old 109s to get to tier 4 in the weekly in the previous format. In fact, they didn't do too badly at that task. Others in sector were generous in cleaning up the "mess" I made with them, as they saw that account was trying to get ahead with crap. I actually found the Novas to be quite decent for a low level, (much better than the Dreadnaughts used previously) & yes, there are Zerk & Citadel blueprints available, but let's face it, they're a bit "junky" at this stage of the game too.
    8 days of tokens? That's so generous. That's 2/3 of a completed Icebreaker. (based on the tech that account has, or "could have" if that TLC was completed) It would then take, based upon a 4-hull fleet on that build, due to dock weight limits (I'm going to now magically make it a better dock, to make it a 5 hull fleet here-so 57 days) of 53-54 minus the tokens so now 46 or so days to make an Icebreaker fleet to do the FM, not forgetting the ranking. (as well as getting the res in-for the 5 hull fleet, that's over 2 billion res in total.) Just to be generous, let's assume that the TLC is run once a month after, so we'll shave off another 16 days. That's still over a month for a "decent" FM fleet. 
        The tech for that account is a tad limited compared to what many others have. There is no serious tech available to build an OFFENSIVE Zelos excepting with the following: Squall launchers (or even worse, D91-U) (no boosting tech for those) Crossbows (ridiculous reload time) & PACs (limited punch unless the PAC effect takes place) & that's a darn sight more than what a player that level would have working by themselves, with no help whatsoever. I very much doubt that Blades would be of any use in the 115s except vs the fleets in them (Yes, that account has the Blade missile.)
        Quite simply, do you believe that any low level has to A: Coin rebuild his or her FM fleet to suit, or B: make do with what they have hitting the lower targets whilst doing A on the cheap.? Why should someone hit low-end targets over & over (like in the old days on the 22-27s, which could be auto'd with even battle barges) & spend their life doing such a task? How mind-numbing.
    There are better games out there.

    Yes, they're "handing out tokens" but you still have to coin in order to get somewhere in those TLCs unless you have a decent fleet to do it with. That's what this game is becoming, a money scam. & many are getting tired of it. I do understand the concept of grinding. My main has ground on B sets in raids in the past, keeping costs way down, & has exceeded 100 mil last year twice doing so in hull store raids. How many B-sets does it take to make 100 million points? F'ing heaps lol.

    I feel very bad for any brand new player here. What are they to hit low end targets with? Lev-As? Hammerheads? At what level? Assuming that they're not getting any help at all, or don't wish to have the help. Are they able to access much better hulls via the Foundry hitting the FM targets, like they could last year? (sorry, a little out of date on this question)

    This game was enjoyable once. Now.. It's becoming Chore Pirates. Screw that.
    Junk is a relative term.

    Everything in the game becomes junk over time. FF was once king of the seas.

    You now pick up the citadel print at level 30 which takes one week of play after opening a new account. THerefore largely everything weaker than a citadel is junk in the current game.

    You can't live in the past. You need to look on how to improve from where you're at and what is currently available

    Level 59 could be achieved in 2 months. That is a low level to me still. If you concentrated on that account you'd be able to find a path forward. If you have any skill. If you get a hand from other players, that path forward would be even easier.
    As it's an alt account, I've not really concentrated too much on it, it's more of a muck around account to see what can be done WITHOUT help. I must have some skill to be able, last year, to work the Dreads into Novas, get the Zerk bp (not that I took the time to make them as I left for 9 months do to crap CS lying to me over a 2d token, & the Jan raid BS) & I got the Cit via the FM recently. That account was getting Tier 4 in last years FM at, oh, L53 or so. My main account was getting Tier 4 in the older format (with the L65s as the top target) at level 45. Coin free, I might add, by hitting 65s. (I had Frosty, 4 V2hs, Harrier) Turret tech is either research or campaign/FM stuff (Sent-V, Harpoon/Javelin). Now, I've seen L90 bases with that tech.. Poor buggers. That tech might keep out a research pirate, but someone who has done Snowfall a couple of times & has a decent enough tank will walk that base.
    In order to make the baby get somewhere now, I have to take a considerable amount of time to make a brand new fleet (& rank the **** thing) along with getting in the res. The guard was 3 Goliaths, a rather crappy trident Rhino & a Firebat II Arbiter. Then there's U gathering (it now has the HW care of the Foundry, but there's even more SY time to be used there for a fleet. I believe the best torp that account has is the Charon, although the other sub tech avail is pretty good, SAS-IV, SS-V, & I believe even Mag-II)
    Then there's raiding. That's obviously where, at a pinch, the HW would come in. But the FM is meant to be more important that raiding.

    & agreed, L59 is small. Folks see a tagged L59 & they start drooling. The main used to hold a tickle over 400 medals in high 70s-low 80s, & mostly from base defense. (I gave away over 100 in my 9 month break, logging in just to give some away) So I can't be too crappy a pirate. Considering that the budget was 100 coin a week, sometimes not even that, in the 70s. (& pretty much nothing prior to then) & quite often I'd not even use that 100c/week.

    The thing is, 2 months to build a decent enough FM fleet. 1 IB might be able to auto smaller targets.. A full fleet will take damage doing any target that's meaningful. No coin means it's down for however long. I really cba to do all of that. Not when it seems like the game is on it's knees. If the game was going forward in a good way, & I didn't have the main, sure, I'd work at it. 

    I specialize in wife removal, crushing heads & just violence in general.
    I fear nothing, your pixels are nothing compared to my physical might (8'0", 420lb)
  • Proteus-606
    Proteus-606
    Master Tactician
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 2,195
    edited 4 Nov 2017, 8:48PM
    bort said:
    This about sums it up...


    except you can still keep up for a cost of $0.
    Kixeye employee of the month everybody!!!

    Your problem is bort, you think everyone should be, or is like you. We don't all treat the game like a second job. It's meant to be fun. Some of us don't like being a care-bear who only does PvE and find PvE a chore. we don't want to do EVERY TLC every time it comes around just in case we later need the tokens. We have lives, and jobs, and families too.

    You also forget you were in before many of the negative changes. That makes a huge difference! Many weren't and this effects them.

    Coming Soon in Kixeye land means "When Satan need to put the heating on"
  • GrumpyReign
    GrumpyReign
    Master Tactician
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 2,360
    bort said:
    This about sums it up...


    except you can still keep up for a cost of $0.
    Kixeye employee of the month everybody!!!

    Your problem is bort, you think everyone should be, or is like you. We don't all treat the game like a second job. It's meant to be fun. Some of us don't like being a care-bear who only does PvE and find PvE a chore. we don't want to do EVERY TLC every time it comes around just in case we later need the tokens. We have lives, and jobs, and families too.

    You also forget you were in before many of the negative changes. That makes a huge difference! Many weren't and this effects them.

    does someone send you a check every time you say "fanboy"?
    I can feel you judging me. That's palpable. But, hey, I never said I was the hero of this story.
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    bort said:
    beel78 said:
    I would like to start of by saying thank you for the repair tokens for fleets that are doing the weekly mission this is where the positives end 

    I am a lvl 121 player who has been playing the game for 4 years now i would consider my self a big coiner the reason for me coining is i really enjoyed your game the excitement of logging in to see if my base had been hit and if so after i repair getting revenge by hitting them back maybe even someone from the alliance i am in could help me do this the interaction with other players not just in my alliance but in sector comms over the past year the content overload has gotten to an unbelievable stage that when i log in i dont even care if my base has been hit the 1st thing i look at is do i need URANIUM , do i need TITANIUM , do i need BASE PARTS do i need to do the WEEKLY FORSAKEN MISSION , do i need RES , do i need to do the DAILY CAMPAIGN , do i need to do any TIME LIMITED CAMPAIGNS , these 7 things that i HATE to do have become the game i now play there is no time to hit bases to have FUN it takes so dam long to do all the CHORES that are now in the game , yes i could auto them but the cost of this is also unreal i have never minded paying for repairs but its got to be reasonable to what you are getting in return and its just NOT !!! 

    Now with what you have done to the weekly targets this is just the most ridiculous single update you have ever done in the game its not only the INCREASED  insane damage that the 115 represents its the fact that you are willing to do this to your player base and this brings me on to a more worrying fact IF you are willing to do this to the FM the most important aspect in the game bar none then you could do it to any aspect of the game  i build a fleet to do the FM and i fully expected it to do the FM till June/July not Nov like it is now so as an end result you have now lost credibility as a company i have 0 faith in you now and without faith in you as a company and with the enjoyment factor being at an all time low there is no reason to coin 

    I URGE YOU yes YOU KIXEYE to look at what you have done in the FM the changes YOU MADE and the consequences they have in the game and not even just the impact it has had to players who are now suffering in the FM other wise YOUR GAME will end without players there is NO game maybe you will change it back to the old targets maybe you wont maybe you will make drastic changes to the 2 new targets maybe you wont but its in your hands and i implore you i urge you other wise the days of battle pirates are numbered  
    LOL you got to be kidding me as a matter of fact all you guys and gals are what word should i say well anyways stop posting the same crap and leave already or play the game but the FM is what it is build a fleet for it or move to the next part you think you can do but stop all the ###### about the new targets they are not that bad with the right build !! 
    Nope not kidding i can do the 115 for 1 hour 20 mins repair with icebreakers in 1 hit but if you cant see how this change is bad for the game then i not sure what to say ......... you say for players to leave the game if enough do this then there will not be a game , what kixeye have done is they wanted the target changed with 0 thought given to the players and the effect it will have them on the short term or long term is the most worrying thing 
    not arguing but using IB/VIB fleet as well and only do it in one hit, would like to see a video on a how to with that repair time.  I am down to three hours per 115 but, I would love some advice or tips on how to get it down to 80 min.
    george's vid is 1h30m with him putting in very little effort to drive with any caution.

    i suspect we'll easily see under 1 hour with an IB fleet. i'm confident mine will do it after my next refit, but i have a fang in my shipyard at the moment, and obviously i'm saving all my tokens and chests coming into the raid, just like everyone else, so cant speed it up.
    This is a big issue though. We were all told our fleets from the garrison raid would be good for a year.

    This being the case, many didn't build IB's or even monos in some cases. They didn't need to. They built what they were TOLD they needed and it worked. Emp/zel fleets could walk the raids and the old FM for example.
    Due to this many didn't bother struggling through all the garrison TLC reruns either, because AGAIN, they were TOLD they didn't need to. It was optional. Also, in order to get a full fleet of IB's built instantly and not interfere with more pressing builds, you needed to fully run the IB TLC repeatedly and there are no rank tokens offered for them either.

    Basically, if you were able to do the FM last week, you now might not be able to do this at all, or at least will be taking unreasonable damage. Meaning you now have to build another fleet! And you even said yourself, our yards are still busy with current raid fleets!

    The only option to finish this FM in any time close to the original time is with IB's. Not everyone has them and it's unreasonable to expect people to build them now with another garrison raid being just around the corner and current fleets building. And after Kix said there would be no change!

    Kixeye are making this game more and more about the top 10%, because they have an unscrupulous and very poor business model. That's all there is to it. 
    you know this is a strategy game right?

    Getting tokens gives you options to ensure you're not getting caught with your pants down. Resting on having one fleet that currently does the job is asking to get caught with your pants down.

    A year is a long time. A lot changes. We've had close to 1,000 days of build tokens given out since that last garrison raid. I dont recall them announcing they were going to give away 1,000 days of build tokens either, but they have. 

    Also, if there is another garrison raid around the corner, won't many players pick up better ships then anyways?
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    edited 4 Nov 2017, 9:10PM
    bort said:
    bort said:
    you get 8 days of build tokens in PP1 & PP2.

    they have run that tlc quite a number of times. and each time you do it you'd have better stuff.

    novastorms are junk. zelos alone will do 115s even. and the lower levels at instant repair once built up a bit.

    you have to put in at least a tiny bit of effort to catch up if you're behind. they're handing out stuff like those tokens left and right to push people up. 
        Sorry, but that account has always run coin free. It's never going to load a single coin. Those "junk" Novastorms (Chaos & Pandamonium morts, 50-60% rank) were doing 88s fine with the Pun lead. No, PPs 1 & 2 are out of range for that account. With 6 hours to run PP1, yes, I could use the repair tokens on hand due to this FM debacle to get through PP1, but what about PP2, with a 3 hour time limit? 
        Those "junk" Novastorms were able to take chunks out of the old 109s to get to tier 4 in the weekly in the previous format. In fact, they didn't do too badly at that task. Others in sector were generous in cleaning up the "mess" I made with them, as they saw that account was trying to get ahead with crap. I actually found the Novas to be quite decent for a low level, (much better than the Dreadnaughts used previously) & yes, there are Zerk & Citadel blueprints available, but let's face it, they're a bit "junky" at this stage of the game too.
    8 days of tokens? That's so generous. That's 2/3 of a completed Icebreaker. (based on the tech that account has, or "could have" if that TLC was completed) It would then take, based upon a 4-hull fleet on that build, due to dock weight limits (I'm going to now magically make it a better dock, to make it a 5 hull fleet here-so 57 days) of 53-54 minus the tokens so now 46 or so days to make an Icebreaker fleet to do the FM, not forgetting the ranking. (as well as getting the res in-for the 5 hull fleet, that's over 2 billion res in total.) Just to be generous, let's assume that the TLC is run once a month after, so we'll shave off another 16 days. That's still over a month for a "decent" FM fleet. 
        The tech for that account is a tad limited compared to what many others have. There is no serious tech available to build an OFFENSIVE Zelos excepting with the following: Squall launchers (or even worse, D91-U) (no boosting tech for those) Crossbows (ridiculous reload time) & PACs (limited punch unless the PAC effect takes place) & that's a darn sight more than what a player that level would have working by themselves, with no help whatsoever. I very much doubt that Blades would be of any use in the 115s except vs the fleets in them (Yes, that account has the Blade missile.)
        Quite simply, do you believe that any low level has to A: Coin rebuild his or her FM fleet to suit, or B: make do with what they have hitting the lower targets whilst doing A on the cheap.? Why should someone hit low-end targets over & over (like in the old days on the 22-27s, which could be auto'd with even battle barges) & spend their life doing such a task? How mind-numbing.
    There are better games out there.

    Yes, they're "handing out tokens" but you still have to coin in order to get somewhere in those TLCs unless you have a decent fleet to do it with. That's what this game is becoming, a money scam. & many are getting tired of it. I do understand the concept of grinding. My main has ground on B sets in raids in the past, keeping costs way down, & has exceeded 100 mil last year twice doing so in hull store raids. How many B-sets does it take to make 100 million points? F'ing heaps lol.

    I feel very bad for any brand new player here. What are they to hit low end targets with? Lev-As? Hammerheads? At what level? Assuming that they're not getting any help at all, or don't wish to have the help. Are they able to access much better hulls via the Foundry hitting the FM targets, like they could last year? (sorry, a little out of date on this question)

    This game was enjoyable once. Now.. It's becoming Chore Pirates. Screw that.
    Junk is a relative term.

    Everything in the game becomes junk over time. FF was once king of the seas.

    You now pick up the citadel print at level 30 which takes one week of play after opening a new account. THerefore largely everything weaker than a citadel is junk in the current game.

    You can't live in the past. You need to look on how to improve from where you're at and what is currently available

    Level 59 could be achieved in 2 months. That is a low level to me still. If you concentrated on that account you'd be able to find a path forward. If you have any skill. If you get a hand from other players, that path forward would be even easier.
    As it's an alt account, I've not really concentrated too much on it, it's more of a muck around account to see what can be done WITHOUT help. I must have some skill to be able, last year, to work the Dreads into Novas, get the Zerk bp (not that I took the time to make them as I left for 9 months do to crap CS lying to me over a 2d token, & the Jan raid BS) & I got the Cit via the FM recently. That account was getting Tier 4 in last years FM at, oh, L53 or so. My main account was getting Tier 4 in the older format (with the L65s as the top target) at level 45. Coin free, I might add, by hitting 65s. (I had Frosty, 4 V2hs, Harrier) Turret tech is either research or campaign/FM stuff (Sent-V, Harpoon/Javelin). Now, I've seen L90 bases with that tech.. Poor buggers. That tech might keep out a research pirate, but someone who has done Snowfall a couple of times & has a decent enough tank will walk that base.
    In order to make the baby get somewhere now, I have to take a considerable amount of time to make a brand new fleet (& rank the **** thing) along with getting in the res. The guard was 3 Goliaths, a rather crappy trident Rhino & a Firebat II Arbiter. Then there's U gathering (it now has the HW care of the Foundry, but there's even more SY time to be used there for a fleet. I believe the best torp that account has is the Charon, although the other sub tech avail is pretty good, SAS-IV, SS-V, & I believe even Mag-II)
    Then there's raiding. That's obviously where, at a pinch, the HW would come in. But the FM is meant to be more important that raiding.

    & agreed, L59 is small. Folks see a tagged L59 & they start drooling. The main used to hold a tickle over 400 medals in high 70s-low 80s, & mostly from base defense. (I gave away over 100 in my 9 month break, logging in just to give some away) So I can't be too crappy a pirate. Considering that the budget was 100 coin a week, sometimes not even that, in the 70s. (& pretty much nothing prior to then) & quite often I'd not even use that 100c/week.

    The thing is, 2 months to build a decent enough FM fleet. 1 IB might be able to auto smaller targets.. A full fleet will take damage doing any target that's meaningful. No coin means it's down for however long. I really cba to do all of that. Not when it seems like the game is on it's knees. If the game was going forward in a good way, & I didn't have the main, sure, I'd work at it. 

    I think you're kind of making a good point. If you can't put in the effort to even build a fleet, you're not going to get far.

    My whole account is coin free.

    I've also started multiple alts over the years, and caught up easily. Coin free.

    You have to put in a little effort though. Expecting to catch up by doing nothing is a bit ridiculous dont you think?

    That said, i suspect they will make the lower targets a little easier, but i have not commented on them nor tested them in any way. THe top target is perfectly fine though.
  • bort
    bort
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 8,257
    edited 4 Nov 2017, 9:25PM
    bort said:
    FishBite said:
    bort said:
    Zork13266 said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    beel78 said:
    bort said:
    Altonator said:
    14 Targets  is unacceptable  to win what previously took 7 Targets  !
    you realise once you've got all the fm prizes for the month it drops to half for the following FMs right?
    which is kind of a moot point when the targets require a lot more seat time and the rewards are a lot less.
    my ibs do the 115 targets quicker than my zelos mono fleet did the 113s.

    i suspect my total seat time is marginally different.

    more enjoyable though, as i prefer driving my speedy ibs compared with mono/zelos.
    Great for you Bort...After all this is all about you isn't it.

    What about people who dont' have IB's...Now go pull  your head out!
    they follow one of the vids that uses zelos?

    they do the pretty simple tlcs to pick up IBs and IB tokens?

    OK. I tried the TLC you mentioned. A Zelos & 2 Citadels. Fine, I got PP1 & 2 done from both of those TLCs. PP3 with that tech is impossible however. & that's where the goodies like rank tokens & a bunch more stuff is.
    My L59 alt has tried. A brand new Zelos (complete with Tridents) & some Novastorms. Isn't happening. That account has never coined, & never will. In essence, that account is screwed now, it never raided (time & tech considerations) it WAS getting Tier 4 in the FM in the last few weeks (after a very long break, just as the main has had a very long break) & now it can't FM without grinding. So that account it pretty much screwed-like many other smaller accounts in the game.
    Why should people coin those TLCs (if they don't have the good hulls in the 1st place) on what is now a very much dying game.?

    Kix ruined the FM. & in the process, has ruined the game for many.
    you get 8 days of build tokens in PP1 & PP2.

    they have run that tlc quite a number of times. and each time you do it you'd have better stuff.

    novastorms are junk. zelos alone will do 115s even. and the lower levels at instant repair once built up a bit.

    you have to put in at least a tiny bit of effort to catch up if you're behind. they're handing out stuff like those tokens left and right to push people up. 
    TLCs are not designed as a catch-up mission... They are designed to grab extra coin from players who don't have the best of everything and want to be able to enjoy the game more by making a task easier...

    Yes there are plenty of tokens available if you have the right fleet(s) to do them...
    Players at the top-end of the Tech Curve have no trouble getting them...

    Everyone else comes up against a significant barrier somewhere around the last or 2nd last Prize Pack where most of the tokens are...
    Most of the final ones need Charged Armors and a full fleet to be successful due to the damage in them... Not everyone has enough Armors or has a good enough Raid fleet to have got them from there...

    Then you also have to factor in the one thing those tokens don't address... Repair time...
    Doing TLCs with a sub-optimal fleet as a "lower tech"ed player really cranks up the damage... Add to that repairs from all the other chore targets ( U, Parts, Ti and FM ) and Repair Time becomes as important as the Build Time... Personally, For my Chore Fleets my Dock has looked like it's after a VXP weekend every week for the last couple of months...

    The updated FM effectively means forget TLCs or forget FM you won't be able to keep everything you need for both of them  repaired...
    that example of a TLC there is literally 8 days of tokens you could pick up with low tech.

    those lower levels of the TLCs are 100% a catch up for lower players. I had 80 spare tokens for IBs .... giving me another 8 doesnt make any difference at all.
    Not true at all.  Without charged armor there is no way IB can do a 115.  That is not low level tech
    Put in a small amount of effort.

    2 charged armor in the entire fleet is enough to do a 115 at the moment. The toughest possible FM target. And I suspect people will figure out how to do it with even less.

    But then again if you're determined to fail, you are going to be spectacularly successful at failing.

    If you're determined to succeed in the game, the tools are there, the information is there. You just need to put in the effort.

    Yes, a lot of people like taking the failure route. Same as life in general really.
    lol, he said without charged. that means none. Then you reply to him and say 2 charged. 2 charged isn't none is it????

    Determined to fail and not following bad decisions and swallowing s*** are two very different things.

    We were lied to, then screwed over leaving only the top few chair warriors like yourself to make smug condescending comments on a forum.

    The real question is here, why should we be building or refitting anything? We were told our raid fleets were good for a year. I don't wanna add a load of charged and waste yard time on an old fleet. 

    Really it's not about rising to the challenge, or being determined. It's like I said. It's about whether you are willing to swallow Kixeye's "length" whenever they feel like jabbing it at you. you clearly are, many aren't such push-overs.
    i also said people will figure it out without charged ....

    many players also have the ability to have picked up at least one or two charged armor. that is quite different from a fleet full.

    the game is always changing. it always has. you prepare for those potential changes. if you don't your strategy is poor.

    you dont think the tons of mono / ib /zelos tokens that have been given out over the last few months was an indicator that something might change?

    for those prepared, this change is zero cost. zero. nada. zilch. sure it took all of a day to figure out a new approach. oh man. a whole day. that's excessive!!! i can't believe kix would make a change that would take a day to figure out. Wow! they're really bending us over!!! hmm actually .. less than a day. but still. they're bending us over. big bad kixeye, making a challenge that took under a day to figure out.

    yes, they said it would last a year. although they did try to change it early on (when they should have). but if you can't handle change, perhaps you need something simpler? THis is why we dont have wip anymore though. 'kixeye lied' ... easy solution - dont tell us anything. i am disappointed you have made that happen too
  • smellsfishy
    smellsfishy
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 611
    edited 4 Nov 2017, 9:21PM
    bort said:
    bort said:
    you get 8 days of build tokens in PP1 & PP2.

    they have run that tlc quite a number of times. and each time you do it you'd have better stuff.

    novastorms are junk. zelos alone will do 115s even. and the lower levels at instant repair once built up a bit.

    you have to put in at least a tiny bit of effort to catch up if you're behind. they're handing out stuff like those tokens left and right to push people up. 
        Sorry, but that account has always run coin free. It's never going to load a single coin. Those "junk" Novastorms (Chaos & Pandamonium morts, 50-60% rank) were doing 88s fine with the Pun lead. No, PPs 1 & 2 are out of range for that account. With 6 hours to run PP1, yes, I could use the repair tokens on hand due to this FM debacle to get through PP1, but what about PP2, with a 3 hour time limit? 
        Those "junk" Novastorms were able to take chunks out of the old 109s to get to tier 4 in the weekly in the previous format. In fact, they didn't do too badly at that task. Others in sector were generous in cleaning up the "mess" I made with them, as they saw that account was trying to get ahead with crap. I actually found the Novas to be quite decent for a low level, (much better than the Dreadnaughts used previously) & yes, there are Zerk & Citadel blueprints available, but let's face it, they're a bit "junky" at this stage of the game too.
    8 days of tokens? That's so generous. That's 2/3 of a completed Icebreaker. (based on the tech that account has, or "could have" if that TLC was completed) It would then take, based upon a 4-hull fleet on that build, due to dock weight limits (I'm going to now magically make it a better dock, to make it a 5 hull fleet here-so 57 days) of 53-54 minus the tokens so now 46 or so days to make an Icebreaker fleet to do the FM, not forgetting the ranking. (as well as getting the res in-for the 5 hull fleet, that's over 2 billion res in total.) Just to be generous, let's assume that the TLC is run once a month after, so we'll shave off another 16 days. That's still over a month for a "decent" FM fleet. 
        The tech for that account is a tad limited compared to what many others have. There is no serious tech available to build an OFFENSIVE Zelos excepting with the following: Squall launchers (or even worse, D91-U) (no boosting tech for those) Crossbows (ridiculous reload time) & PACs (limited punch unless the PAC effect takes place) & that's a darn sight more than what a player that level would have working by themselves, with no help whatsoever. I very much doubt that Blades would be of any use in the 115s except vs the fleets in them (Yes, that account has the Blade missile.)
        Quite simply, do you believe that any low level has to A: Coin rebuild his or her FM fleet to suit, or B: make do with what they have hitting the lower targets whilst doing A on the cheap.? Why should someone hit low-end targets over & over (like in the old days on the 22-27s, which could be auto'd with even battle barges) & spend their life doing such a task? How mind-numbing.
    There are better games out there.

    Yes, they're "handing out tokens" but you still have to coin in order to get somewhere in those TLCs unless you have a decent fleet to do it with. That's what this game is becoming, a money scam. & many are getting tired of it. I do understand the concept of grinding. My main has ground on B sets in raids in the past, keeping costs way down, & has exceeded 100 mil last year twice doing so in hull store raids. How many B-sets does it take to make 100 million points? F'ing heaps lol.

    I feel very bad for any brand new player here. What are they to hit low end targets with? Lev-As? Hammerheads? At what level? Assuming that they're not getting any help at all, or don't wish to have the help. Are they able to access much better hulls via the Foundry hitting the FM targets, like they could last year? (sorry, a little out of date on this question)

    This game was enjoyable once. Now.. It's becoming Chore Pirates. Screw that.
    Junk is a relative term.

    Everything in the game becomes junk over time. FF was once king of the seas.

    You now pick up the citadel print at level 30 which takes one week of play after opening a new account. THerefore largely everything weaker than a citadel is junk in the current game.

    You can't live in the past. You need to look on how to improve from where you're at and what is currently available

    Level 59 could be achieved in 2 months. That is a low level to me still. If you concentrated on that account you'd be able to find a path forward. If you have any skill. If you get a hand from other players, that path forward would be even easier.
    Yes, the game most progress, but this power jump in the FM was just way 2 big.  That is the issue.    It should go up gradually.  If I did FM with 15 min damage last week, it should not be 8 hours for less points now.

    If they tone it down, like just remove the Rhinos, we will all be happy.
  • beel78
    beel78
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 8,189
    bort said:
    bort said:
    beel78 said:
    I would like to start of by saying thank you for the repair tokens for fleets that are doing the weekly mission this is where the positives end 

    I am a lvl 121 player who has been playing the game for 4 years now i would consider my self a big coiner the reason for me coining is i really enjoyed your game the excitement of logging in to see if my base had been hit and if so after i repair getting revenge by hitting them back maybe even someone from the alliance i am in could help me do this the interaction with other players not just in my alliance but in sector comms over the past year the content overload has gotten to an unbelievable stage that when i log in i dont even care if my base has been hit the 1st thing i look at is do i need URANIUM , do i need TITANIUM , do i need BASE PARTS do i need to do the WEEKLY FORSAKEN MISSION , do i need RES , do i need to do the DAILY CAMPAIGN , do i need to do any TIME LIMITED CAMPAIGNS , these 7 things that i HATE to do have become the game i now play there is no time to hit bases to have FUN it takes so dam long to do all the CHORES that are now in the game , yes i could auto them but the cost of this is also unreal i have never minded paying for repairs but its got to be reasonable to what you are getting in return and its just NOT !!! 

    Now with what you have done to the weekly targets this is just the most ridiculous single update you have ever done in the game its not only the INCREASED  insane damage that the 115 represents its the fact that you are willing to do this to your player base and this brings me on to a more worrying fact IF you are willing to do this to the FM the most important aspect in the game bar none then you could do it to any aspect of the game  i build a fleet to do the FM and i fully expected it to do the FM till June/July not Nov like it is now so as an end result you have now lost credibility as a company i have 0 faith in you now and without faith in you as a company and with the enjoyment factor being at an all time low there is no reason to coin 

    I URGE YOU yes YOU KIXEYE to look at what you have done in the FM the changes YOU MADE and the consequences they have in the game and not even just the impact it has had to players who are now suffering in the FM other wise YOUR GAME will end without players there is NO game maybe you will change it back to the old targets maybe you wont maybe you will make drastic changes to the 2 new targets maybe you wont but its in your hands and i implore you i urge you other wise the days of battle pirates are numbered  
    LOL you got to be kidding me as a matter of fact all you guys and gals are what word should i say well anyways stop posting the same crap and leave already or play the game but the FM is what it is build a fleet for it or move to the next part you think you can do but stop all the ###### about the new targets they are not that bad with the right build !! 
    Nope not kidding i can do the 115 for 1 hour 20 mins repair with icebreakers in 1 hit but if you cant see how this change is bad for the game then i not sure what to say ......... you say for players to leave the game if enough do this then there will not be a game , what kixeye have done is they wanted the target changed with 0 thought given to the players and the effect it will have them on the short term or long term is the most worrying thing 
    not arguing but using IB/VIB fleet as well and only do it in one hit, would like to see a video on a how to with that repair time.  I am down to three hours per 115 but, I would love some advice or tips on how to get it down to 80 min.
    george's vid is 1h30m with him putting in very little effort to drive with any caution.

    i suspect we'll easily see under 1 hour with an IB fleet. i'm confident mine will do it after my next refit, but i have a fang in my shipyard at the moment, and obviously i'm saving all my tokens and chests coming into the raid, just like everyone else, so cant speed it up.
    This is a big issue though. We were all told our fleets from the garrison raid would be good for a year.

    This being the case, many didn't build IB's or even monos in some cases. They didn't need to. They built what they were TOLD they needed and it worked. Emp/zel fleets could walk the raids and the old FM for example.
    Due to this many didn't bother struggling through all the garrison TLC reruns either, because AGAIN, they were TOLD they didn't need to. It was optional. Also, in order to get a full fleet of IB's built instantly and not interfere with more pressing builds, you needed to fully run the IB TLC repeatedly and there are no rank tokens offered for them either.

    Basically, if you were able to do the FM last week, you now might not be able to do this at all, or at least will be taking unreasonable damage. Meaning you now have to build another fleet! And you even said yourself, our yards are still busy with current raid fleets!

    The only option to finish this FM in any time close to the original time is with IB's. Not everyone has them and it's unreasonable to expect people to build them now with another garrison raid being just around the corner and current fleets building. And after Kix said there would be no change!

    Kixeye are making this game more and more about the top 10%, because they have an unscrupulous and very poor business model. That's all there is to it. 
    you know this is a strategy game right?
    ffs, tactical. there is nothing strategic here.

    read your gd sun tzu and tacitus. jesus.
    well, there is a bit of strategy.  It lies in trying to out think, Kixeye and taking into account the randomness in attaining a never ending goal.  Mechanics wise, this is more of a tactical game.
    https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://d2r5da613aq50s.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/317225.image0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dummies.com/business/business-strategy/strategic-planning-strategy-vs-tactics/&h=361&w=535&tbnid=KBjZQn6N7mxguM:&tbnh=142&tbnw=211&usg=__PI0o935ffEA3kR_p1J-EX5TPrAs=&vet=1&docid=pyGUrJkQLdeGSM&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwio19_966XXAhVE-GMKHZHrCaoQ9QEILDAA
    http://www.strategyskills.com/difference-strategy-tactics/

  • TheDragonbane
    TheDragonbane
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 99
    So now we have mini raids all the time.  I hope the coining goes way down as that is the only way kix will respond.
    Having fun smushing bases and getting smushed
  • GordM1
    GordM1
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 154
    bort said:
    bort said:
    beel78 said:
    I would like to start of by saying thank you for the repair tokens for fleets that are doing the weekly mission this is where the positives end 

    I am a lvl 121 player who has been playing the game for 4 years now i would consider my self a big coiner the reason for me coining is i really enjoyed your game the excitement of logging in to see if my base had been hit and if so after i repair getting revenge by hitting them back maybe even someone from the alliance i am in could help me do this the interaction with other players not just in my alliance but in sector comms over the past year the content overload has gotten to an unbelievable stage that when i log in i dont even care if my base has been hit the 1st thing i look at is do i need URANIUM , do i need TITANIUM , do i need BASE PARTS do i need to do the WEEKLY FORSAKEN MISSION , do i need RES , do i need to do the DAILY CAMPAIGN , do i need to do any TIME LIMITED CAMPAIGNS , these 7 things that i HATE to do have become the game i now play there is no time to hit bases to have FUN it takes so dam long to do all the CHORES that are now in the game , yes i could auto them but the cost of this is also unreal i have never minded paying for repairs but its got to be reasonable to what you are getting in return and its just NOT !!! 

    Now with what you have done to the weekly targets this is just the most ridiculous single update you have ever done in the game its not only the INCREASED  insane damage that the 115 represents its the fact that you are willing to do this to your player base and this brings me on to a more worrying fact IF you are willing to do this to the FM the most important aspect in the game bar none then you could do it to any aspect of the game  i build a fleet to do the FM and i fully expected it to do the FM till June/July not Nov like it is now so as an end result you have now lost credibility as a company i have 0 faith in you now and without faith in you as a company and with the enjoyment factor being at an all time low there is no reason to coin 

    I URGE YOU yes YOU KIXEYE to look at what you have done in the FM the changes YOU MADE and the consequences they have in the game and not even just the impact it has had to players who are now suffering in the FM other wise YOUR GAME will end without players there is NO game maybe you will change it back to the old targets maybe you wont maybe you will make drastic changes to the 2 new targets maybe you wont but its in your hands and i implore you i urge you other wise the days of battle pirates are numbered  
    LOL you got to be kidding me as a matter of fact all you guys and gals are what word should i say well anyways stop posting the same crap and leave already or play the game but the FM is what it is build a fleet for it or move to the next part you think you can do but stop all the ###### about the new targets they are not that bad with the right build !! 
    Nope not kidding i can do the 115 for 1 hour 20 mins repair with icebreakers in 1 hit but if you cant see how this change is bad for the game then i not sure what to say ......... you say for players to leave the game if enough do this then there will not be a game , what kixeye have done is they wanted the target changed with 0 thought given to the players and the effect it will have them on the short term or long term is the most worrying thing 
    not arguing but using IB/VIB fleet as well and only do it in one hit, would like to see a video on a how to with that repair time.  I am down to three hours per 115 but, I would love some advice or tips on how to get it down to 80 min.
    george's vid is 1h30m with him putting in very little effort to drive with any caution.

    i suspect we'll easily see under 1 hour with an IB fleet. i'm confident mine will do it after my next refit, but i have a fang in my shipyard at the moment, and obviously i'm saving all my tokens and chests coming into the raid, just like everyone else, so cant speed it up.
    This is a big issue though. We were all told our fleets from the garrison raid would be good for a year.

    This being the case, many didn't build IB's or even monos in some cases. They didn't need to. They built what they were TOLD they needed and it worked. Emp/zel fleets could walk the raids and the old FM for example.
    Due to this many didn't bother struggling through all the garrison TLC reruns either, because AGAIN, they were TOLD they didn't need to. It was optional. Also, in order to get a full fleet of IB's built instantly and not interfere with more pressing builds, you needed to fully run the IB TLC repeatedly and there are no rank tokens offered for them either.

    Basically, if you were able to do the FM last week, you now might not be able to do this at all, or at least will be taking unreasonable damage. Meaning you now have to build another fleet! And you even said yourself, our yards are still busy with current raid fleets!

    The only option to finish this FM in any time close to the original time is with IB's. Not everyone has them and it's unreasonable to expect people to build them now with another garrison raid being just around the corner and current fleets building. And after Kix said there would be no change!

    Kixeye are making this game more and more about the top 10%, because they have an unscrupulous and very poor business model. That's all there is to it. 
    you know this is a strategy game right?

    Getting tokens gives you options to ensure you're not getting caught with your pants down. Resting on having one fleet that currently does the job is asking to get caught with your pants down.

    A year is a long time. A lot changes. We've had close to 1,000 days of build tokens given out since that last garrison raid. I dont recall them announcing they were going to give away 1,000 days of build tokens either, but they have. 

    Also, if there is another garrison raid around the corner, won't many players pick up better ships then anyways?
    You seem good at figures bort ;)

    1. How many new ships have come out in that year?

    2. How many days to build those ships?

    3. How many days to have to refit those ships?

    4. how long a life for some ships?

    And think about those that could not get those tokens, the FM fiasco and all the other chores will kill this game, people want to have battles and have some fun not farm targets for different stuff all the time.
  • Ser_Gregor_Clegane
    Ser_Gregor_Clegane
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 2,926
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    you get 8 days of build tokens in PP1 & PP2.

    they have run that tlc quite a number of times. and each time you do it you'd have better stuff.

    novastorms are junk. zelos alone will do 115s even. and the lower levels at instant repair once built up a bit.

    you have to put in at least a tiny bit of effort to catch up if you're behind. they're handing out stuff like those tokens left and right to push people up. 
        Sorry, but that account has always run coin free. It's never going to load a single coin. Those "junk" Novastorms (Chaos & Pandamonium morts, 50-60% rank) were doing 88s fine with the Pun lead. No, PPs 1 & 2 are out of range for that account. With 6 hours to run PP1, yes, I could use the repair tokens on hand due to this FM debacle to get through PP1, but what about PP2, with a 3 hour time limit? 
        Those "junk" Novastorms were able to take chunks out of the old 109s to get to tier 4 in the weekly in the previous format. In fact, they didn't do too badly at that task. Others in sector were generous in cleaning up the "mess" I made with them, as they saw that account was trying to get ahead with crap. I actually found the Novas to be quite decent for a low level, (much better than the Dreadnaughts used previously) & yes, there are Zerk & Citadel blueprints available, but let's face it, they're a bit "junky" at this stage of the game too.
    8 days of tokens? That's so generous. That's 2/3 of a completed Icebreaker. (based on the tech that account has, or "could have" if that TLC was completed) It would then take, based upon a 4-hull fleet on that build, due to dock weight limits (I'm going to now magically make it a better dock, to make it a 5 hull fleet here-so 57 days) of 53-54 minus the tokens so now 46 or so days to make an Icebreaker fleet to do the FM, not forgetting the ranking. (as well as getting the res in-for the 5 hull fleet, that's over 2 billion res in total.) Just to be generous, let's assume that the TLC is run once a month after, so we'll shave off another 16 days. That's still over a month for a "decent" FM fleet. 
        The tech for that account is a tad limited compared to what many others have. There is no serious tech available to build an OFFENSIVE Zelos excepting with the following: Squall launchers (or even worse, D91-U) (no boosting tech for those) Crossbows (ridiculous reload time) & PACs (limited punch unless the PAC effect takes place) & that's a darn sight more than what a player that level would have working by themselves, with no help whatsoever. I very much doubt that Blades would be of any use in the 115s except vs the fleets in them (Yes, that account has the Blade missile.)
        Quite simply, do you believe that any low level has to A: Coin rebuild his or her FM fleet to suit, or B: make do with what they have hitting the lower targets whilst doing A on the cheap.? Why should someone hit low-end targets over & over (like in the old days on the 22-27s, which could be auto'd with even battle barges) & spend their life doing such a task? How mind-numbing.
    There are better games out there.

    Yes, they're "handing out tokens" but you still have to coin in order to get somewhere in those TLCs unless you have a decent fleet to do it with. That's what this game is becoming, a money scam. & many are getting tired of it. I do understand the concept of grinding. My main has ground on B sets in raids in the past, keeping costs way down, & has exceeded 100 mil last year twice doing so in hull store raids. How many B-sets does it take to make 100 million points? F'ing heaps lol.

    I feel very bad for any brand new player here. What are they to hit low end targets with? Lev-As? Hammerheads? At what level? Assuming that they're not getting any help at all, or don't wish to have the help. Are they able to access much better hulls via the Foundry hitting the FM targets, like they could last year? (sorry, a little out of date on this question)

    This game was enjoyable once. Now.. It's becoming Chore Pirates. Screw that.
    Junk is a relative term.

    Everything in the game becomes junk over time. FF was once king of the seas.

    You now pick up the citadel print at level 30 which takes one week of play after opening a new account. THerefore largely everything weaker than a citadel is junk in the current game.

    You can't live in the past. You need to look on how to improve from where you're at and what is currently available

    Level 59 could be achieved in 2 months. That is a low level to me still. If you concentrated on that account you'd be able to find a path forward. If you have any skill. If you get a hand from other players, that path forward would be even easier.
    As it's an alt account, I've not really concentrated too much on it, it's more of a muck around account to see what can be done WITHOUT help. I must have some skill to be able, last year, to work the Dreads into Novas, get the Zerk bp (not that I took the time to make them as I left for 9 months do to crap CS lying to me over a 2d token, & the Jan raid BS) & I got the Cit via the FM recently. That account was getting Tier 4 in last years FM at, oh, L53 or so. My main account was getting Tier 4 in the older format (with the L65s as the top target) at level 45. Coin free, I might add, by hitting 65s. (I had Frosty, 4 V2hs, Harrier) Turret tech is either research or campaign/FM stuff (Sent-V, Harpoon/Javelin). Now, I've seen L90 bases with that tech.. Poor buggers. That tech might keep out a research pirate, but someone who has done Snowfall a couple of times & has a decent enough tank will walk that base.
    In order to make the baby get somewhere now, I have to take a considerable amount of time to make a brand new fleet (& rank the **** thing) along with getting in the res. The guard was 3 Goliaths, a rather crappy trident Rhino & a Firebat II Arbiter. Then there's U gathering (it now has the HW care of the Foundry, but there's even more SY time to be used there for a fleet. I believe the best torp that account has is the Charon, although the other sub tech avail is pretty good, SAS-IV, SS-V, & I believe even Mag-II)
    Then there's raiding. That's obviously where, at a pinch, the HW would come in. But the FM is meant to be more important that raiding.

    & agreed, L59 is small. Folks see a tagged L59 & they start drooling. The main used to hold a tickle over 400 medals in high 70s-low 80s, & mostly from base defense. (I gave away over 100 in my 9 month break, logging in just to give some away) So I can't be too crappy a pirate. Considering that the budget was 100 coin a week, sometimes not even that, in the 70s. (& pretty much nothing prior to then) & quite often I'd not even use that 100c/week.

    The thing is, 2 months to build a decent enough FM fleet. 1 IB might be able to auto smaller targets.. A full fleet will take damage doing any target that's meaningful. No coin means it's down for however long. I really cba to do all of that. Not when it seems like the game is on it's knees. If the game was going forward in a good way, & I didn't have the main, sure, I'd work at it. 

    I think you're kind of making a good point. If you can't put in the effort to even build a fleet, you're not going to get far.

    My whole account is coin free.

    I've also started multiple alts over the years, and caught up easily. Coin free.

    You have to put in a little effort though. Expecting to catch up by doing nothing is a bit ridiculous dont you think?

    That said, i suspect they will make the lower targets a little easier, but i have not commented on them nor tested them in any way. THe top target is perfectly fine though.
    To be honest, Bort, I can't really be arsed to make a "good" fleet. If you'd read my other comments, you'd see how I'm thinking. I'm going to stab at the raid a little, but honestly, this FM change has pretty much ruined the game for me, as it has for others. My main has also to build a new FM fleet, what, IBs as well? Along with raid fleets, AND probably a new Siege fleet (likely to be Zelos with Quakes, but that's probably going to be 2nd rate for the new Siege targets)
    That's 2 fleets in 2 months. That's not happening for this pirate. 
    You may like to spend all your life on this game. I can't be arsed putting in the time I used to because the BS that Kix is pulling is disheartening. They lie to us constantly, bring about 1 good change for 5 bad changes, I've been outright lied to by CS, &.. WhyTF should I spend any fvcking coin on the game to make 2 fleets AND rank them in VXP in 2 months? That's just for the FM, future raid, not counting I'm trying to make some Fangs for the Xmas raid. What about basers that I'll likely get tech along those lines in Xmas, what about my guard, which is woefully out of date? You'd say "Get the Huggys yard made for the latter 2" but that's 18 days just to get OP10 done for starters. & apart from normal res, does the new "Huggys" SY need any other res (T)? If so, that's not happening either. Outright. Unless I make a fleet of Apollos & plink 45s with them.
    I'm going to see what I can do, but at the end of the day, my time here is done. A month at the most. If Kix significantly changes the FM for the better, great, I'll keep my hand in, but I really doubt that they will, because with close on 100 pages on this thread, & basically only one Mod is saying anything, CM MR is hiding under a rock, none of the Devs have logged in (sure, it's the weekend, but have they not heard of overtime for something as pressing as this?) in to say diddly-squat & all Kix can do is throw a rice paper bandaid at us.. A few 12h repair tokens, a few 3h repair tokens, & some alteration of targets no-one wants to hit.

    That alone is so telling. 

    I can play other games for $10 a month for a premium account, have fun sinking folks with well-placed salvos, or burning them up from afar & dodging the incoming with ease, getting PMs in port to say "Well played" & guess what? No fvcking subs on that game. I can buy a premium hull that has a life of.. Well, my Kutuzov is still going strong 7 months after I bought it. It's AP might be marginal, but at 7-8km range, I citadel ships my own level if they're silly, & burn folks at any other range.. & it's AA rating is the highest for an CL of it's tier. So why should I plss about making fleet after fleet after fleet after fleet on this BS game when they're crap before we know it?
    I specialize in wife removal, crushing heads & just violence in general.
    I fear nothing, your pixels are nothing compared to my physical might (8'0", 420lb)
  • IxDEADxMANxI
    IxDEADxMANxI
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 37
    Having played a bit of the new FM my results are these:  On previous FM i could get 66,5K of Uranium for sure from tiers 1-4. On the new FM I will be lucky if I get half of it on nthe same tiers. Aslo, On old FM i would get at least one new tech (reaching tier 4) and all the tokens from all the tiers 1-4. I am going only up to tier 4 because to get anywhere near Tier5 I would have to play all day long, and a man has to work for a living. 

    What they did? Is to devide everything. Now, to get ONE prize - whether it is uranium or a tech, you gonna need to put twice the effort you were gving before OR... you can coin some MORE....  

    I cannot hit bases, because my fleets are obsolete. I cannot play in raids, because my fleets are obsolete. I am maybe the only mazohistic player that is high level (enough to be a farm for every top coiner outhere) that still played this game, because in my hopeless mind, there was an idea that I might pull this off and have some fun in this game.

    My situtation just got from ok--ish to sh it--ish. 

    Estimated time of upgrading OP9 to OP10 with previous FM, aproxim 5 weeks.
    Estimated time of upgrading OP9 to OP10 with current FM, about 1000 years (given the changes that will happen over the next months)

    Also, what I have learned in these 6 years of playing this game (took a break for about 3 years, hence the mazohism mentioned above), IS that when Kix gives stuff for free (through FM for example like the hulls of IB and Monos) that means that those hulls will become obsolete too real fast. Maybe a new hull to balance the mingun turret on OP10's maybe... i could be worng though.
    I AM JUST A LONELY LONELY PIRATE HAVING FUN. 
  • Ser_Gregor_Clegane
    Ser_Gregor_Clegane
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 2,926
    Nik said:

    Also, what I have learned in these 6 years of playing this game (took a break for about 3 years, hence the mazohism mentioned above), IS that when Kix gives stuff for free (through FM for example like the hulls of IB and Monos) that means that those hulls will become obsolete too real fast. Maybe a new hull to balance the mingun turret on OP10's maybe... i could be worng though.
    Plus that "free" fleet it's kinda expected that you coin the reps on the **** thing :wink:
    I specialize in wife removal, crushing heads & just violence in general.
    I fear nothing, your pixels are nothing compared to my physical might (8'0", 420lb)
  • scorpioustwo
    scorpioustwo
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 116
    What happened to the FM,s? They changed it?
  • smellsfishy
    smellsfishy
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 611
    edited 4 Nov 2017, 10:32PM
    bort said:
    bort said:
    bort said:
    you get 8 days of build tokens in PP1 & PP2.

    they have run that tlc quite a number of times. and each time you do it you'd have better stuff.

    novastorms are junk. zelos alone will do 115s even. and the lower levels at instant repair once built up a bit.

    you have to put in at least a tiny bit of effort to catch up if you're behind. they're handing out stuff like those tokens left and right to push people up. 
        Sorry, but that account has always run coin free. It's never going to load a single coin. Those "junk" Novastorms (Chaos & Pandamonium morts, 50-60% rank) were doing 88s fine with the Pun lead. No, PPs 1 & 2 are out of range for that account. With 6 hours to run PP1, yes, I could use the repair tokens on hand due to this FM debacle to get through PP1, but what about PP2, with a 3 hour time limit? 
        Those "junk" Novastorms were able to take chunks out of the old 109s to get to tier 4 in the weekly in the previous format. In fact, they didn't do too badly at that task. Others in sector were generous in cleaning up the "mess" I made with them, as they saw that account was trying to get ahead with crap. I actually found the Novas to be quite decent for a low level, (much better than the Dreadnaughts used previously) & yes, there are Zerk & Citadel blueprints available, but let's face it, they're a bit "junky" at this stage of the game too.
    8 days of tokens? That's so generous. That's 2/3 of a completed Icebreaker. (based on the tech that account has, or "could have" if that TLC was completed) It would then take, based upon a 4-hull fleet on that build, due to dock weight limits (I'm going to now magically make it a better dock, to make it a 5 hull fleet here-so 57 days) of 53-54 minus the tokens so now 46 or so days to make an Icebreaker fleet to do the FM, not forgetting the ranking. (as well as getting the res in-for the 5 hull fleet, that's over 2 billion res in total.) Just to be generous, let's assume that the TLC is run once a month after, so we'll shave off another 16 days. That's still over a month for a "decent" FM fleet. 
        The tech for that account is a tad limited compared to what many others have. There is no serious tech available to build an OFFENSIVE Zelos excepting with the following: Squall launchers (or even worse, D91-U) (no boosting tech for those) Crossbows (ridiculous reload time) & PACs (limited punch unless the PAC effect takes place) & that's a darn sight more than what a player that level would have working by themselves, with no help whatsoever. I very much doubt that Blades would be of any use in the 115s except vs the fleets in them (Yes, that account has the Blade missile.)
        Quite simply, do you believe that any low level has to A: Coin rebuild his or her FM fleet to suit, or B: make do with what they have hitting the lower targets whilst doing A on the cheap.? Why should someone hit low-end targets over & over (like in the old days on the 22-27s, which could be auto'd with even battle barges) & spend their life doing such a task? How mind-numbing.
    There are better games out there.

    Yes, they're "handing out tokens" but you still have to coin in order to get somewhere in those TLCs unless you have a decent fleet to do it with. That's what this game is becoming, a money scam. & many are getting tired of it. I do understand the concept of grinding. My main has ground on B sets in raids in the past, keeping costs way down, & has exceeded 100 mil last year twice doing so in hull store raids. How many B-sets does it take to make 100 million points? F'ing heaps lol.

    I feel very bad for any brand new player here. What are they to hit low end targets with? Lev-As? Hammerheads? At what level? Assuming that they're not getting any help at all, or don't wish to have the help. Are they able to access much better hulls via the Foundry hitting the FM targets, like they could last year? (sorry, a little out of date on this question)

    This game was enjoyable once. Now.. It's becoming Chore Pirates. Screw that.
    Junk is a relative term.

    Everything in the game becomes junk over time. FF was once king of the seas.

    You now pick up the citadel print at level 30 which takes one week of play after opening a new account. THerefore largely everything weaker than a citadel is junk in the current game.

    You can't live in the past. You need to look on how to improve from where you're at and what is currently available

    Level 59 could be achieved in 2 months. That is a low level to me still. If you concentrated on that account you'd be able to find a path forward. If you have any skill. If you get a hand from other players, that path forward would be even easier.
    As it's an alt account, I've not really concentrated too much on it, it's more of a muck around account to see what can be done WITHOUT help. I must have some skill to be able, last year, to work the Dreads into Novas, get the Zerk bp (not that I took the time to make them as I left for 9 months do to crap CS lying to me over a 2d token, & the Jan raid BS) & I got the Cit via the FM recently. That account was getting Tier 4 in last years FM at, oh, L53 or so. My main account was getting Tier 4 in the older format (with the L65s as the top target) at level 45. Coin free, I might add, by hitting 65s. (I had Frosty, 4 V2hs, Harrier) Turret tech is either research or campaign/FM stuff (Sent-V, Harpoon/Javelin). Now, I've seen L90 bases with that tech.. Poor buggers. That tech might keep out a research pirate, but someone who has done Snowfall a couple of times & has a decent enough tank will walk that base.
    In order to make the baby get somewhere now, I have to take a considerable amount of time to make a brand new fleet (& rank the **** thing) along with getting in the res. The guard was 3 Goliaths, a rather crappy trident Rhino & a Firebat II Arbiter. Then there's U gathering (it now has the HW care of the Foundry, but there's even more SY time to be used there for a fleet. I believe the best torp that account has is the Charon, although the other sub tech avail is pretty good, SAS-IV, SS-V, & I believe even Mag-II)
    Then there's raiding. That's obviously where, at a pinch, the HW would come in. But the FM is meant to be more important that raiding.

    & agreed, L59 is small. Folks see a tagged L59 & they start drooling. The main used to hold a tickle over 400 medals in high 70s-low 80s, & mostly from base defense. (I gave away over 100 in my 9 month break, logging in just to give some away) So I can't be too crappy a pirate. Considering that the budget was 100 coin a week, sometimes not even that, in the 70s. (& pretty much nothing prior to then) & quite often I'd not even use that 100c/week.

    The thing is, 2 months to build a decent enough FM fleet. 1 IB might be able to auto smaller targets.. A full fleet will take damage doing any target that's meaningful. No coin means it's down for however long. I really cba to do all of that. Not when it seems like the game is on it's knees. If the game was going forward in a good way, & I didn't have the main, sure, I'd work at it. 

    I think you're kind of making a good point. If you can't put in the effort to even build a fleet, you're not going to get far.

    My whole account is coin free.

    I've also started multiple alts over the years, and caught up easily. Coin free.

    You have to put in a little effort though. Expecting to catch up by doing nothing is a bit ridiculous dont you think?

    That said, i suspect they will make the lower targets a little easier, but i have not commented on them nor tested them in any way. THe top target is perfectly fine though.
    To be honest, Bort, I can't really be arsed to make a "good" fleet. If you'd read my other comments, you'd see how I'm thinking. I'm going to stab at the raid a little, but honestly, this FM change has pretty much ruined the game for me, as it has for others. My main has also to build a new FM fleet, what, IBs as well? Along with raid fleets, AND probably a new Siege fleet (likely to be Zelos with Quakes, but that's probably going to be 2nd rate for the new Siege targets)
    That's 2 fleets in 2 months. That's not happening for this pirate. 
    You may like to spend all your life on this game. I can't be arsed putting in the time I used to because the BS that Kix is pulling is disheartening. They lie to us constantly, bring about 1 good change for 5 bad changes, I've been outright lied to by CS, &.. WhyTF should I spend any fvcking coin on the game to make 2 fleets AND rank them in VXP in 2 months? That's just for the FM, future raid, not counting I'm trying to make some Fangs for the Xmas raid. What about basers that I'll likely get tech along those lines in Xmas, what about my guard, which is woefully out of date? You'd say "Get the Huggys yard made for the latter 2" but that's 18 days just to get OP10 done for starters. & apart from normal res, does the new "Huggys" SY need any other res (T)? If so, that's not happening either. Outright. Unless I make a fleet of Apollos & plink 45s with them.
    I'm going to see what I can do, but at the end of the day, my time here is done. A month at the most. If Kix significantly changes the FM for the better, great, I'll keep my hand in, but I really doubt that they will, because with close on 100 pages on this thread, & basically only one Mod is saying anything, CM MR is hiding under a rock, none of the Devs have logged in (sure, it's the weekend, but have they not heard of overtime for something as pressing as this?) in to say diddly-squat & all Kix can do is throw a rice paper bandaid at us.. A few 12h repair tokens, a few 3h repair tokens, & some alteration of targets no-one wants to hit.

    That alone is so telling. 

    I can play other games for $10 a month for a premium account, have fun sinking folks with well-placed salvos, or burning them up from afar & dodging the incoming with ease, getting PMs in port to say "Well played" & guess what? No fvcking subs on that game. I can buy a premium hull that has a life of.. Well, my Kutuzov is still going strong 7 months after I bought it. It's AP might be marginal, but at 7-8km range, I citadel ships my own level if they're silly, & burn folks at any other range.. & it's AA rating is the highest for an CL of it's tier. So why should I plss about making fleet after fleet after fleet after fleet on this BS game when they're crap before we know it?
    Well said Kaptain.  the problem is that we need to build 2-3 fleets/ month to stay up.  
    Most of us are casual players.  I don't mind paying $10/month

    But even that is $120/year.   I can get a really nice xbox or playstation game for $120 so why spend it on a browser based flash game?

    Kix makes it harder to justify each "rebalance"

    Kix is clearly hunting for whales

    When I get home from work I wanna log in and have fun.  I grind enough at work

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