FM / Update Discussion 11/1

  • kalle.tap
    kalle.tap
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 92
    ruzstik said:
    C'mon Kixeye, if you wanna turn the FM into a raid, lets have some fun while killing this game. 

    I want to see video of an Kixeye employee doing 115 with the state-of-the-art grid mono fleet, ya need to 1-hit the 115 using existing tech. 


    Show me this, so at least I can have a laugh too, like I am sure you got of us now. :D


    Your dreaming. Last time Kix showed an employee doing anything related to the game, it blew up in their faces. The guy had top tech and fleet and an unlimited coin to boot. 
    On a side comment I was able to do one base however it was a level 40.  It was the only one I found in my sector thus it had to be a fluke. What a wonderful Fm.
    Since i was able to do 113 before with damage and lvl 88 with under 5min damage, and reach the top tier to collect decent prize ,I would like to see Kixeye do the same with my technology without playing all day and not having to spend a week in repairs afterwards.
     Too much greed here....
    Until I get charged armor on all fleets to do these new targets, will NOT spend any coin on the game!
  • nick58211
    nick58211
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 937

    Were you at full token capacity?

  • Kalidor55
    Kalidor55
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 2,260
    I've been able to scale my damage down a bit by retreating with my Garrison fleet and entering my Phoenix (Assault Fleet) to kill the ships.  You have to retreat 3 times and re-enter 4 total times to complete this.

    Although this works, it takes a long to complete a 115 and is honestly not worth the time required.  We should never have to use an Assault Felet on a Garrison target.

    #ROLLBACKFM




    Yesssss, its so nice to see all those exposed fleets on the map waiting outside while you hit with the other one  !   mouhahahahahahahaha
  • steshot
    steshot
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 570
    Hi,
    Simple qu for mods etc - In the T5/Pool5 FM chest, is it 1 single token that is a 3 day or 4day or 5 day etc...??? This is kinda important, cos i don't want to suddenly find out i don't have room to hold them? and what are the limits we can hold of these?
  • Proteus-606
    Proteus-606
    Master Tactician
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 2,195
    Capt.Bly said:
    OK, I have a legitimate question here.................... If we figure out how to do these 115's for free, will there be ANOTHER rebalance of targets?
    This is the 3rd change since the FM targets changed (107 to 109 and then 109 to 113 and now 113 to 115).
    I'm not actually sure this is accurate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but 107's and even 109's were actually pre-garrison change targets. They were old FM targets and were phased out gradually when the the Garrison raid was run? We were hitting 109's with tideseekers, puns and cits!

    So actually this is the only change since the new garrison cycle was in full swing. We were promised that the FM would be the same and our fleets would work until the next cycle, which isn't at all true.
    Coming Soon in Kixeye land means "When Satan need to put the heating on"
  • John1975
    John1975
    Master Tactician
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 2,318
    john1975, kix told ya they wouldnt change the current fm for a year, they changed it 5 months early, so they lied, why did they change it, bacause they weren't getting any money from fleets being repaired, because everyone learned how to do them. kix changes the rules when ever they dont hold the upper hand, and unless they do have a game deathwish, they will continue to screw the players, until their bottom line is effected.  we need kix to stay true to their word, the only acceptable change here is that they put fm back to the way it was, honestly goes alot futher then lying
    I dont want it how it was the Prize claiming was garbage. Before it was "random" drop that was junk. They changed it to prizes were awarded via a path so you got them in a order. That was even worse than the random.  I for sure want the store to stay so you pick what you want.  That is a great thing and how it should have been all along.  The pick as many as you can is a great thing.  They can not just roll it back and keep the new prize structure and 113 paid 110 million. 

    This system will actually be good for players they just went way too far in left field on the roll out of the damage output and points pay out. 
    BadMoFo RYFG TTMX Level 97
  • Chuck Sloan
    Chuck Sloan
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 30
    Capt.Bly said:
    OK, I have a legitimate question here.................... If we figure out how to do these 115's for free, will there be ANOTHER rebalance of targets?
    This is the 3rd change since the FM targets changed (107 to 109 and then 109 to 113 and now 113 to 115).
    AFTER we were told that FM wouldn't be changed!
    exactly  the point. Wonder where THAT post went of the MOD saying..FM will NOT change......
  • Albert.E.Roberts
    Albert.E.Roberts
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 666
    And big change in82
  • GrumpyReign
    GrumpyReign
    Master Tactician
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 2,360
    john1975, kix told ya they wouldnt change the current fm for a year, they changed it 5 months early, so they lied, why did they change it, bacause they weren't getting any money from fleets being repaired, because everyone learned how to do them. kix changes the rules when ever they dont hold the upper hand, and unless they do have a game deathwish, they will continue to screw the players, until their bottom line is effected.  we need kix to stay true to their word, the only acceptable change here is that they put fm back to the way it was, honestly goes alot futher then lying
    it's still the legion/draconian setup, which is the "for a year" thing.

    there's plenty of perfectly legitimate stuff to hold against kix. inventing more things doesn't make them more guilty and brings us down to their level.
    I can feel you judging me. That's palpable. But, hey, I never said I was the hero of this story.
  • GIANNIDAL
    GIANNIDAL
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2015 Posts: 2
    U are just small brained ..... raid, bounty, camp, fm, uri, titan, base parts ...... this is no more a play ... is a job.
    I coined a lot in the past ... but now .... this game becoming a stress .. a never ending story .... as u coin something ... 2 weeks later are all unusefull and u need to start again and again ...... this push ppl not to coin anymore ... and new fm ... well ..... just because is impossible to reach in a reasonable time fm prizes .... for the same reason i will not coin for unusefull things that i will never be able to use ..... u are loosing lot of money Kix guys .... players are quitting .... coiners are quitting .... and ... by my side i will play a bit just to say hello to friends and use fleets that i have ..... not bothering anymore to do camp or buy fleets or coin repair or coin a new hull ..... time to time ...... we will see
  • CaptJackXXX
    CaptJackXXX
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 202
    and so far the only response from Kixeye is Ice Breaker deals....

  • War_Child71
    War_Child71
    Potential Threat
    Joined Apr 2014 Posts: 27
    does not make it go away. I refer you to the 55+ pages of update discussion 11/1
  • Jane Sparrow
    Jane Sparrow
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 180
    Capt.Bly said:
    OK, I have a legitimate question here.................... If we figure out how to do these 115's for free, will there be ANOTHER rebalance of targets?
    This is the 3rd change since the FM targets changed (107 to 109 and then 109 to 113 and now 113 to 115).
    AFTER we were told that FM wouldn't be changed!
    exactly  the point. Wonder where THAT post went of the MOD saying..FM will NOT change......
    Not a mod, likely Doom but IF it was a MOD, they can only relay what they are told. They are just players as well and you couldn't pay me to do what they do for a company that lacks even basic communication with-in. They sure can't relay information to the MODS or the community when they can't get it to the other side of the office.

    Don't blame the MODS.
  • Proteus-606
    Proteus-606
    Master Tactician
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 2,195
    John1975 said:
    john1975, kix told ya they wouldnt change the current fm for a year, they changed it 5 months early, so they lied, why did they change it, bacause they weren't getting any money from fleets being repaired, because everyone learned how to do them. kix changes the rules when ever they dont hold the upper hand, and unless they do have a game deathwish, they will continue to screw the players, until their bottom line is effected.  we need kix to stay true to their word, the only acceptable change here is that they put fm back to the way it was, honestly goes alot futher then lying
    I dont want it how it was the Prize claiming was garbage. Before it was "random" drop that was junk. They changed it to prizes were awarded via a path so you got them in a order. That was even worse than the random.  I for sure want the store to stay so you pick what you want.  That is a great thing and how it should have been all along.  The pick as many as you can is a great thing.  They can not just roll it back and keep the new prize structure and 113 paid 110 million. 

    This system will actually be good for players they just went way too far in left field on the roll out of the damage output and points pay out. 
    I agree the structure isn't the problem. The setup actually could be very beneficial to the players, and therein lies the problem. They have tried to make something beneficial and realised that beneficial doesn't rake in gold, so they have upped the damage and time requirement to a level that nobody wants to play! This setup will never work in balance to both players and Kixeye.

    Ultimately this makes the old "one at a time and tokens at the end" better overall. People don't want a third raid a month!
    Coming Soon in Kixeye land means "When Satan need to put the heating on"
  • DukeNukem01
    DukeNukem01
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2015 Posts: 244
    Ok so everyone else has really already chimed in but here's my take.  The new FM is a very bad implementation but not based on format.  I really like the new format, kudos there.  The new targets, 89 and 115 specifically are very poorly designed.  Previously, if you could drive you could use the "skill" fleets to beat the top targets with minimal damage.  This did require very good driving and SKILL.  Now at least half of the damage is unavoidable in the 115.  By the time you hit 3 of the Rhinos running in at you, your tank is nearly dead, never mind the unavoidable new coldsnaps that very quickly overwhelm your defenses and more than just your tank gets nailed.  So essentially the new target requires 2 fleets that previously could do the whole FM, just to finish 1 target.  I suppose I wouldn't mind if it took all of 1 fleet if the point value was high enough. 

    However, the new damage dealt is greatly out of whack with the rewards.  It takes 6 top targets just to complete the P5 sprint prize and new chest, 5 for the new armor special.  That's at least 16 115s x2 fleets each.  My FM fleet is roughly a 12 repair (24 coins).  24 coins x 32 repairs is 768 coins, with GOOD DRIVING.  I'm sure with proper repair planning and better driving that would come down, maybe even halved.  That still doesn't make the new 115s or the FM even worth doing.  The alternative is doing 89s or 103s.  The points values for those targets is also so diminished you are hitting 67 103s or 134 89s.  Both of those targets have unavoidable damage and will not be free either.  Essentially Kixeye has removed the SKILL reward element from the FM and reintroduced a very very heavy burden of GRIND/CHORE back into the FM for those that have finally built the right fleet to get through in a week's time.  Do you really think even coiners like me (moderate) are going to be willing to spending 300-700 coins a weeks just to reach Pool 5?  Nevermind spending anymore time to get items in Pool 4.  

    My two cents, the targets need to worth hitting, the damage to point values don't make sense and should be re-evaluated.
    I also think SKILL should be rewarded or at least not penalized like it seems to be now.  Seeing as this is now an essential part of the game to build fleets and stay on top or just collect tech and grow as a lower player, making this part of the game void of a reason to try will kill a large, very large part of the player base.  It's your business and you can run it as you please but if you played like the rest of us, you'd probably have seen some of these issues before implementation and known this was not going to be popular with anyone and push your player base away.  Just food for thought.
  • GrumpyReign
    GrumpyReign
    Master Tactician
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 2,360
    John1975 said:
    john1975, kix told ya they wouldnt change the current fm for a year, they changed it 5 months early, so they lied, why did they change it, bacause they weren't getting any money from fleets being repaired, because everyone learned how to do them. kix changes the rules when ever they dont hold the upper hand, and unless they do have a game deathwish, they will continue to screw the players, until their bottom line is effected.  we need kix to stay true to their word, the only acceptable change here is that they put fm back to the way it was, honestly goes alot futher then lying
    I dont want it how it was the Prize claiming was garbage. Before it was "random" drop that was junk. They changed it to prizes were awarded via a path so you got them in a order. That was even worse than the random.  I for sure want the store to stay so you pick what you want.  That is a great thing and how it should have been all along.  The pick as many as you can is a great thing.  They can not just roll it back and keep the new prize structure and 113 paid 110 million. 

    This system will actually be good for players they just went way too far in left field on the roll out of the damage output and points pay out. 
    I agree the structure isn't the problem. The setup actually could be very beneficial to the players, and therein lies the problem. They have tried to make something beneficial and realised that beneficial doesn't rake in gold, so they have upped the damage and time requirement to a level that nobody wants to play! This setup will never work in balance to both players and Kixeye.

    Ultimately this makes the old "one at a time and tokens at the end" better overall. People don't want a third raid a month!
    why now, though? the fm has been around since early '13.. has it ever actually been a revenue stream?
    I can feel you judging me. That's palpable. But, hey, I never said I was the hero of this story.
  • John1975
    John1975
    Master Tactician
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 2,318
    For how I came to I think 750K is magic number for 115 pay out. It basically cost full fleet to kill a 115 12-14 hrs repair.  Kill 1 x115 repair for the 14 hrs come back day 2 kill a 2nd one first print claimed. Repair for 14 hrs come back kill another one half way to tokens.  Now for non spender they would still have to be grinding on some little ones during this time to get chest before its locked.  Spender would still need to spend.   This is only to claim 1 print and the chest for tier 5.  It comes out to even more to claim chest/prints in other tiers.   750K is where I think it needs to be in the end.   This week we if its staying need to get on making adjustments to the targets  500K is good start point.  Business side you can always increase it cant take it back once you do a increase so I understand got to raise it slow till you get to correct spot. 
    BadMoFo RYFG TTMX Level 97
  • DRIVE_BLIND
    DRIVE_BLIND
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 255
    R O L L    B A C K    T H E    F M
  • ThePANDO
    ThePANDO
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 72
    I think that it's great that there are people that can do the 115's for little damage using Non-Garrison fleets. More power to them. I think it's wonderful that there are a few that are feeding the  monster by doing refit after refit to simply accomplish a target that should have never been changed in the first place.  Not everyone has these luxuries at their disposal. Nor does everyone have the "Luxury item" known as charged armor. But they sure did make sure to gear the targets in a way that the "Luxury item" became a mandatory. And regardless of what they say, yes.. they did change other targets for the FM.

    The company is data driven in their decision making. When their data shows that they are either making more money , or that there is no or very little decline in the number of players doing the FM, then they will conclude that the targets are sufficient and will leave them as they currently are. I, for one, hope that their data is all kinds of fekd up and shows a huge decline in participation, and that their financial side took a huge plummet since yesterday.  The time and/or money needed to invest in the game to keep current has spun out of control. Hopefully their numbers are truly showing it. I'd like to get back to PvP at some point, but now essentially doing 5 raids a month I fear that is just a pipe dream for many now. 

    (3 6 day FM's of grinding, Bounty, and the monthly Raid = a month of continuous raiding = zero fun for players)

  • Dazandren
    Dazandren
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,455
    Well, yesterday at this time things looked pretty bleak for me with regards to the fm.

    What a difference a day makes.

    After doing some research and watching some videos, I am pleased to report that I can indeed do the new fm without refitting either of my zelos/mono or icebreaker fleets.  Armed with my new knowledge, I successfully took out a 115.  It is taking a lot longer and with a bit more damage,  however.  I finished with roughly 2.5 hrs damage to my zelos/mono fleet, and roughly 1.5 hrs damage to my icebreakers.

    As many are discovering and others have reported on in this thread, the key to success in the 115 is indeed the 2 fleet approach.  I go in with zelos/mono fleet first, and start around the same way I did the 113.  After I kill the first turret cluster, the rhinos begin to move.  I run to the far right, then turn straight up at the edge of the screen until I can see the second group of rhinos approaching from the nw.  Then I sit and wait for the retreat button to finish lighting up and press it.

    Then I enter with my icebreakers.  The attacking fleets have repositioned themselves, so I stack my ibs and just do a bull rush on them and easily destroy them.

    Rinse and repeat your way around the rest of the target.  With the exception of a few extra coldsnaps and halo missiles, the target remains the same as the 113.  And as I stated previously, the best part is I don't need any refits.

    I know the extra time involved is a pain, but the new target is very doable, just takes longer.

    Hope this helps someone as others have helped me.   B)
    image
  • miles_t3hr4t
    miles_t3hr4t
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 348
    Pre-update

    88 target - doable with 10-12 minutes damage per hit

    Post update 

    89 - Impossible, Killed Monolith fleet in under 1 minute, finished by zelos & cits, for a total of more than 24 hours of damage total, for ONE TARGET.
  • CaptColdSavage
    CaptColdSavage
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 74
    To bad that the idiots won't care to listen to it's members there are over 6K less players on today then yesterday and yet all the MODS do is delete the threads concerning the FM I'll not be surprised if this one is killed off also.  Today I only logged in to hit repair button only cheaper and better to just play a different game to pass the time, good job BP you've royally screwed the pooch listen to your players.
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