A Concerned Message to Kixeye

Tony Mai
Tony Mai
Potential Threat
Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 95
edited 29 Aug 2017, 12:58AM

Edited & Retyped this for a concerned member of the community, so before anyone goes “déjà vu” it should no longer be violating any forum rules I am aware of at this stage

Dear Kixeye,

I am the community, I wanted to write a few words for you guys if you don’t mind.

This was my first online game I ever played, I have been active daily since November 2013, but I started to slow down around May 2017, why?  VEGA has become a farming game, where you should farm 90% of the time playing and spend the last 10% doing some FvF or FvB.  In addition, in order to keep up with others and have fun as you did 2 – 3 years ago, you now need to coin at least $200 a month (Editor’s Note:  Actually around $900, see here:  https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/697787/p1)

Another 2 Important things?

1.       Construction times & refit times are insane, it takes more than 20+ days for one ship with alien (Xeno) technology or even Heavy Weapons.

2.      Repair Times have gotten far too high, especially with AXIS.  Now one fleet can be one to three days of repair, one ship around seven hours, this is honestly a joke.

Let’s be serious, the game now is for coiners only, poor average coiners, or non-coiners, have no power to keep up, as they have no possibility of competing anymore.

You are forcing us players to buy more and more coins, at some point, players are going to drop out because it’s taking them too much time and money. 

 

Also, to repeat a point I made earlier in April:

There are still way too many events in one month, too many alien events, too many civil wars, we finish one event and then another immediately starts.  We barely have the time to repair between the two, and we don’t have the time or patience anymore to be online the whole day to just farm and barely fight.

The community is not satisfied with what the game has become, we cannot be online all day to farm and be able to keep up.  It has come to the point where it’s too much for us, we don’t have the time to build a new ship with new tech before another one gets released as soon as we finish refitting.  For example, I can do a 10 day refit, and then after I’m finished a new tech will be released and I’ll have to refit it again (for yet another 10 days), just to be able to compete.

We are humans who have real lives to take care of, we have a limited amount of time to play per day, and that little time we have we would like to spend in the game to release the stress of real life fighting other players, not being stressed to farm everyday just to keep up and farm some more.

This game is great, but we want it to be better, we want to be able to keep having fun playing it without farming too much, or spending 2 – 3 weeks to build or refit just one ship.

I was the leader of the alliance GOAT (Killer Goat Brigade) until recently stepping down from leadership.  It was my hope that following my post in April that changes would be made to correct the game, but nothing has happened.  Players, in general, are beginning to leave as this game becomes too expensive and too unsatisfying compared to previous experiences.

The community wants things to slow down and go back to how it was before, while keeping the same main principles intact.  We don’t even have a proper week to fight anymore without having an event stop us from fighting as there will be so many AI Fleets in sector I can barely even see my team mates.

What I would like to see is:  1 Main Event.  1 Alien Event.  1 Riot (Now Planet Strike / Sector strike), and 1 Civil War is enough every month.  We’d regain the time to build, refit, and fight at the same time.  This would make us, the community, very happy to keep playing, and very satisfied to put our money into the game.  Reducing the refit time of the new alien techs, or any tech in general, would be beneficial to everyone.

We would love to speak more about details we would like changed if Kixeye is open to it.

One last thing, leaders should have an online streaming meeting with the Community Managers of VEGA if it’s possible like we’ve had previously, if they are interested to discuss more options with the community.

The community really hopes things will change soon in a good way, please understand that we love this game and want to make it the best.

PS:  Whomever comments below, please be respectful & constructive.


Cordially,

[GOAT] Oussama MBJ

BAAAAAAH !!!!



To clarify, not my post, literally just retyped & edited as the last one was removed.
The owner of it is @Goat 4 Life or [GOAT] Oussama MBJ as it signs off with.  Just a messenger today :)

Founder of the Arcadia Federation (AF)
Current Supreme Leader of AF; Alliance Leader of AF2
image
  • Junren-JS
    Junren-JS
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2013 Posts: 1,591
    Thank you, Tony. 
    Burning all your bridges means that sooner or later you're alone on an island, bereft of allies or means to get anywhere.  Seek to build bridges in all things, treat even your opponents with respect.  Crush them only when there is no other recourse and they hinder your movement forward. 
  • AirChronic
    AirChronic
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2016 Posts: 324
    I would love to attend a streaming developer to community relationship repair session.  

    I think the relationship could use a bit of "therapy" as it seems a bit one-sided to me and many of my colleagues.  

    well-written post, O.P. I agree with everything you said. 
    image
  • Uchiha__Itachi
    Uchiha__Itachi
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 32
    yeah nice post, but kix do not give a **** of what players think or do, they will squeeze as much money as they can from this game before it goes down.
    pain in the ****
  • geotku
    geotku
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2015 Posts: 193
    edited 29 Aug 2017, 1:26AM
    Happy Trails Oussama ...
  • TheDude84
    TheDude84
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 183
    Yeah Tony well said. it's hard not to get frustrated with the game and come on here in a fit of rage venting all our anger in a non productive way. It's hard to argue about the mood of the community if you spend more than 5 minutes in the forums reading posts. More dialog with the community and taking our concerns for this game seriously would be a huge step towards rebuilding the player base and bringing some of the "retired" players back. 

    Even just bringing back the strategy/skill component to the game could have a huge impact. I don't see why it has to be one or the other either, we just need targets that can be skillfully piloted and reward us with lower repair time. Keep the gearing fleets also for those who just like to smash fleets and only play for 20min a day. Little things could be done to drastically change the mood of the community and even stop the outflow of players and maybe even bring a few back.
    The problem with this game is the power curves. Just look at the graphs I made. Said no vega conflict player ever
  • Junren-JS
    Junren-JS
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2013 Posts: 1,591
    TheDude84 said:
    Yeah Tony well said. --snip--
    Just to be clear, this is essentially oussamma's original post that was removed.  The offending line that violated the forum rules was removed in this posting. 
    Burning all your bridges means that sooner or later you're alone on an island, bereft of allies or means to get anywhere.  Seek to build bridges in all things, treat even your opponents with respect.  Crush them only when there is no other recourse and they hinder your movement forward. 
  • jaredfiori
    jaredfiori
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2017 Posts: 170
    Junren-JS said:
    TheDude84 said:
    Yeah Tony well said. --snip--
    Just to be clear, this is essentially oussamma's original post that was removed.  The offending line that violated the forum rules was removed in this posting. 
    Can you loosely hint at what the line said? 
    PEW PEW
  • abyss22
    abyss22
    Greenhorn
    Joined Dec 2015 Posts: 8
    Salute to MBJ and Tony. I certainly hope Kixeye will take this seriously and lend an ear. The game is moving too fast and the builds are way too long. I see long time players leaving regularly. Very concerning.
  • ChuckBukkit
    ChuckBukkit
    Potential Threat
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 39
    Can you loosely hint at what the line said? 
    Dude - give ya a hint... it starts with "Q" and rhymes with "****"...
  • jaredfiori
    jaredfiori
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2017 Posts: 170
    Can you loosely hint at what the line said? 
    Dude - give ya a hint... it starts with "Q" and rhymes with "****"...
    That makes sense, I thought it would refer to a boycott.
    PEW PEW
  • Daniel.A
    Daniel.A
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2015 Posts: 108
    Goodbye Oussama!
  • fades13
    fades13
    Greenhorn
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 5

    Some of the truest **** ever said. I know of at least 9 old alliances mates that have 'retired' because of what's going on, and most of them played well over 2-4 hours a day... hell even I used to play vega for that long... this game used to be something I couldn't wait to play while I'd be at an event, or at work, but now it's just not fun anymore.

  • CM Chris
    CM Chris
    KIXEYE Community Manager
    Joined Mar 2014 Posts: 3,741
    I think something that's not always visible to the community is that the way VC formerly was (slower cadence, less power progression, extremely low time/res costs) is something we have a lot of qualitative and quantitative data on. We ran VC that way for several years and pumped thousands upon thousands of players into the game via marketing efforts. We know exactly how that version of VC performs with both small and large audiences, on every platform, and the incontrovertible truth is that if the game was still the way it was - it would be offline currently.

    Probably long ago, in fact.

    It was 100% unsustainable and its flaws were glaringly obvious once we had a large scale player base. As such, when anyone asks us to make the game more like what it used to be, you're asking us to essentially kill the game, and we're not going to do that. You're asking us to weigh a few players trickling out against all players not having VC anymore. It's an easy choice.

    -----
    A brief history. Since shortly before the original grand rebalance in 2016, we set out to strengthen VC as a game so that we could right the ship. The Xeno season was the first season that saw the results of those cumulative efforts, and we finally started getting engagement metrics that we should have been getting years ago. That's not solely a monetary thing, by the way, one of the main issues we originally had was that we churned out end-game players at an immensely high rate due to a lack of new and engaging endgame content. We fixed that and retention of end-game players has strengthened immensely. I've discussed all of this before.

    Now that we're back on track, we're looking to the future. There's still plenty of depth and re-tuning of early/mid-game that we'd still like to look at, and even more endgame features (not just content) in the pipeline. It's a process but we're moving in the right direction, and the company currently sees VEGA Conflict as a success story for that reason. We took a game that was - by all industry standards - dead in the water and gave it life once again. And there's still so much more to come!

    I understand that those who played the old VC are going to look at that time through rose-tinted glasses and perhaps not see a lot they recognize in VC currently. I get that. It was an easy game, and more casual to play. It's more difficult now, and requires regular attention. But that's the way it should have been from the start, that's the way it is now, and that's the way it will be moving forward. Most have adapted, but we understand not everyone will and we may lose folks along the way. That's unfortunate, there are players I will certainly miss (ones that I already do) and I won't argue with those who choose a different path. But our rate of churn is around normal-to-low by industry standards. As such, we don't see too many things in that arena that alarm us, and hopefully we can start putting new players in the game soon to make the population a little more bustling once again. We'll see - it's certainly a decision that's very much above my head. But I'm looking forward to that day - so is the rest of the team.

    In short, it's time to stop looking back. Look forward. Try to remember and understand that there are reasons for why we do things. Longing for this game to be something it likely will never be again will only lead to frustration and ignores the immense vista of possibility that's in front of us. We've got a lot of places still to go - and we're hoping you all choose to come along.
    KIXEYE Director of Marketing
    Community Rules: CLICK HERE
    Submit a Support Ticket: CLICK HERE
  • suurkupel2
    suurkupel2
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2017 Posts: 133

    I do not buy coins and still play the game my base! 66 and playing puns mk3 all and thats it only puns rest ships refit is just pointless if can fit 2 ships per month and to chris you story is BS

  • Andrea Nard1
    Andrea Nard1
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 2,654
    edited 29 Aug 2017, 4:17AM
    I think the post of Chris is pretty clear, Kixeye is happy with how the things are going, and no matter how much players whine or complain will not change their path. 
    Adapt or quit!
    image
  • Spask Crondusk
    Spask Crondusk
    Master Tactician
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 2,287
    edited 29 Aug 2017, 4:46AM
    CM Chris said:
    I think something that's not always visible to the community is that the way VC formerly was (slower cadence, less power progression, extremely low time/res costs) is something we have a lot of qualitative and quantitative data on. We ran VC that way for several years and pumped thousands upon thousands of players into the game via marketing efforts. We know exactly how that version of VC performs with both small and large audiences, on every platform, and the incontrovertible truth is that if the game was still the way it was - it would be offline currently.

    Probably long ago, in fact.

    It was 100% unsustainable and its flaws were glaringly obvious once we had a large scale player base. As such, when anyone asks us to make the game more like what it used to be, you're asking us to essentially kill the game, and we're not going to do that. You're asking us to weigh a few players trickling out against all players not having VC anymore. It's an easy choice.

    -----
    A brief history. Since shortly before the original grand rebalance in 2016, we set out to strengthen VC as a game so that we could right the ship. The Xeno season was the first season that saw the results of those cumulative efforts, and we finally started getting engagement metrics that we should have been getting years ago. That's not solely a monetary thing, by the way, one of the main issues we originally had was that we churned out end-game players at an immensely high rate due to a lack of new and engaging endgame content. We fixed that and retention of end-game players has strengthened immensely. I've discussed all of this before.

    Now that we're back on track, we're looking to the future. There's still plenty of depth and re-tuning of early/mid-game that we'd still like to look at, and even more endgame features (not just content) in the pipeline. It's a process but we're moving in the right direction, and the company currently sees VEGA Conflict as a success story for that reason. We took a game that was - by all industry standards - dead in the water and gave it life once again. And there's still so much more to come!

    I understand that those who played the old VC are going to look at that time through rose-tinted glasses and perhaps not see a lot they recognize in VC currently. I get that. It was an easy game, and more casual to play. It's more difficult now, and requires regular attention. But that's the way it should have been from the start, that's the way it is now, and that's the way it will be moving forward. Most have adapted, but we understand not everyone will and we may lose folks along the way. That's unfortunate, there are players I will certainly miss (ones that I already do) and I won't argue with those who choose a different path. But our rate of churn is around normal-to-low by industry standards. As such, we don't see too many things in that arena that alarm us, and hopefully we can start putting new players in the game soon to make the population a little more bustling once again. We'll see - it's certainly a decision that's very much above my head. But I'm looking forward to that day - so is the rest of the team.

    In short, it's time to stop looking back. Look forward. Try to remember and understand that there are reasons for why we do things. Longing for this game to be something it likely will never be again will only lead to frustration and ignores the immense vista of possibility that's in front of us. We've got a lot of places still to go - and we're hoping you all choose to come along.
    i understand that we need new players to build up the popularity of the game to be more alive again but there are some that already started the game and feel like its taking forever for them to be where we are now so would'nt there be some kind support from the axis season to help new players out to by giving 10 or more missions for players to do and as a reward would be for coins or reusable items that players can earn for completing the mission.

     you can set it as a daily mission like blood amber mission or set the timer up as one hour to complete the mission and onces the timer is up it will restart the timer as it regenerate a new mission then the previous one.

    this is just an idea @CM Chris but the Devs can modified it and make it better but this is something new players need to be engage with a reward then just grinding fleets for res to repair ships or build them.

    Please have the axis season give low and high levels more mission then just getting blood ambers, i like to get different rewards as well, as a  mercenary pirate, i need to Bounty jobs that is worth hunting for accomplishing the mission so i can feel rewarded to come back in game often and this idea can attract more attention for lower levels as well, just make a level system where bounty hunters can pick a mission that is right for them to hunt, that is pretty much it.

    this is just a request, not a demand.

  • Spask Crondusk
    Spask Crondusk
    Master Tactician
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 2,287
    I think the post of Chris is pretty clear, Kixeye is happy with how the things are going, and no matter how much players whine or complain will not change their path. 
    Adapt or quit!
    The problem is... The players can not adapt so fast.... because all takes forever to build and refit... they are going out fast... (see my stat)


    lol thats where i agree on that statement ;P

  • Spask Crondusk
    Spask Crondusk
    Master Tactician
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 2,287
    I think the post of Chris is pretty clear, Kixeye is happy with how the things are going, and no matter how much players whine or complain will not change their path. 
    Adapt or quit!
    That's where your wrong kiddo!

  • Andrea Nard1
    Andrea Nard1
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 2,654
    I think the post of Chris is pretty clear, Kixeye is happy with how the things are going, and no matter how much players whine or complain will not change their path. 
    Adapt or quit!
    That's where your wrong kiddo!
    I was summarizing... 

    Anyway...I think you might be right, soo many things have changed because of the players complaining on the forums...let me list them:
    ....
    ....
    ....
    ....
    Of course there is a 3rd way keep complaining and you might get some added to the list
    image
  • Andrea Nard1
    Andrea Nard1
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 2,654
    I think the post of Chris is pretty clear, Kixeye is happy with how the things are going, and no matter how much players whine or complain will not change their path. 
    Adapt or quit!
    The problem is... The players can not adapt so fast.... because all takes forever to build and refit... they are going out fast... (see my stat)


    I do agree on what you say, however CM clearly stated that their churm rate is normal or below market standards, hence is either your stats wrong or he is lying. 
    Is up to you to what to believe, but considering that Kixeye bankruptcy will result in CM losing his job, I am inclined to believe him.

    He said an important thing that many missed, they do not want 50% of the players to be end gamers, they want only a small percentage to be at the top... that explains everything, but there is no more deaf than  the one that does not want to listen
    image
  • Spask Crondusk
    Spask Crondusk
    Master Tactician
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 2,287
    @CM Chris is the messanger that can hear what we have to say by request then demanding, if you have an idea to help both sides of low and end game players please speak up and suggest it as a request so @CM Chris can send the word to the devs and see if they can keep the idea or modified it to make it better but fair for low and high levels.

  • shakenb
    shakenb
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2016 Posts: 81
    simple they money hungry more than ever ..  they proving they want to kill this game.. when you losing more than you gaining then numbers dont add up to what you are saying.. I refuse to coin anymore on my main acct.. I have be hanging on barely over 6 months now you really starting to push us out the door. Other games out there better than KIX and less greedy and this is a war game not farmville.. Nor is it really pay to play game but you have made sure you only suppose coiners and you lost a huge coiner cause of it you will feel his departure soon enough more big coiners will leave now thanks to Goat leader leaving. So how are you making game better then??
  • EliteRanger
    EliteRanger
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2015 Posts: 976

    @Andrea Nard1 said:
    I think the post of Chris is pretty clear, Kixeye is happy with how the things are going, and no matter how much players whine or complain will not change their path. 
    Adapt or quit!

    You know, every time I see your name pop up I know it's going to be pro kixeye. You are either an employee or an idiot. Or both. MORE PEOPLE ARE QUITING THEN ADAPTING. The leader of GOAT has thrown in the towel. I've seen a few more beta, mega coiners leave recently. I was in an alliance that had seven beta players. Five of them quit. And the other two are rarely play. Maybe once or twice a month. So please, don't give that advice anymore.

  • dmanRUSH
    dmanRUSH
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2014 Posts: 358
    honestly if kix was in financial distress and they posted something to that end how many people would knowingly buy coins, how many would actually stay. and honestly the model now is unavoidable unresistable insane damage even for lower targets... stats of players dropping like flies .. do you even need them just play and youll see .. and honestly i dont look so much back i want this game to be amazing but i do not see that happening. they fail at so much of their attempts and honestly i dont believe a word of any kix's lackeys even if paul came on the forums. their ideas are like cursed genie wishes ... you want a million dollars ... then you get robbed or get audited ... you want a can of pepsi ... it was the 1st one and is all blah.. their actions show little regard for us players, and i dont see new players stay long. you know what would boost player engagement ... AVOIDABLE DAMAGE for one... that would make you need more skill ... which in turn makes the game more enjoyable... and the reason the game doesnt turn away players is because this game has so much potential and your wasting it ... you are like a child prodigy that gets addicted to crack ... all of it just went to waste.... but im sure imnot the only one that feels this way
  • Lee Van Cleef
    Lee Van Cleef
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2016 Posts: 263
    Is up to you to what to believe, but considering that Kixeye bankruptcy will result in CM losing his job, I am inclined to believe him.
    CM, you should start to look around for a new job then^^

    I am trying to recruit in my clan.. and the new players that i am getting... go out of game on average in 7 days.... No new players + old/mid players very fast quit -> bankruptcy
  • Hyperbob
    Hyperbob
    Greenhorn
    Joined Oct 2015 Posts: 10
    @CM Chris, keep drinking Kixeye's Kool-Aid and repeat after me everyone. "Everything is working as expected."

    So basically in a nut shell what you are saying is after your influx of potential customers due to extensive marketing it was determined that Kixeye's hardware could no longer support the volume of people playing at any given time or platform. So Kixeye's solution was to up the repair time, up the build time, and up the refit time to keep players busy with building and repairs and to keep as many of them offline at any given time because in your words it was "100% unsustainable and its flaws were glaringly obvious once we had a large scale player base". Also if you could explain this to me "We took a game that was - by all industry standards - dead in the water and gave it life once again." ??? To me this sounds like the game was not profitable and you needed new ways to generate income by increasing all 3 (build, refit, repairs). I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say build times have remained the same and have not increased drastically like (refits and repairs). At what point was Vega Conflict dead in the water and needed life? Was it the end of T5 Demon Core season because that was probably the season I enjoyed the most before all this gear related strategy and mindless over powered alien stuff. The problem with the concept of T6 and T6.5 is that the appropriate gear was not properly introduced. You needed the gear from the first month to fight what was thrown at us that month, and then same with 2nd, 3rd, etc months. Take into the fact that it takes forever to build and refit the ships by the time you have a fleet the seasons over and everything is obsolete. Then to top it off you nerfed the one ship everyone probably had a strong fleet of 6 (punishers) to help with T6.5 and nerfed them. Essentially blasting everyone back to the stone age to make the medium target hard, and the end game targets impossible through out the T6.5 season. You would continuously be so far behind anyone that wants to blindly throw away $1,000 of dollars to coin fleet builds and then already be behind for T7. All while continuing to inflate (increase) the prize values and decrease the intel earned to obtain the prizes. Looking at the lower level fleets what it the point of even hitting something that only gives 1,000 intel when the prizes range anywhere from 300,000 to 2,000,0000. Bottom line you can spin it however you want Chris/Kixeye, but your post does nothing more than turn people off if you're not ever going to fix repair/build/refit times because your hardware can't handle large volumes of players at any one given time. I guess you should of thought of that before marketing your product and couldn't fulfill your players expectations.  I could point out some other flaws in your data analysis, but not worth my time. The way I see it is your whales will get bored because no one is flying around because their ships are too busy being built, refitted, or repaired. In the meantime they will have nice coined fleets only useful for 6 months against PvE because most of us aren't online to play this game for more than 5 or 10 minutes a day. If they are lucky they may catch us and prevent us from being online for another 12-20 hours, but trust me they will get bored too.



Sign In or Register to comment.