Do u know how much mass will be added at each mk lvl?
Does that mean that 624 x 4 = 2496. (1782-1158) Will increase at mk6?
1428 at mk3? Etc
Other factors come into play i.e anything that adds ship mass like thrusters in the calculations. I already have made the changes on shipcalc but I am waiting to hear from Chris on if armoured thrusters are being altered aswell since this will also affect demon corp ships. Once I know i will make the changes on my testing server and upload the new version after the downtime update on the 2nd, or maybe the night before if i have all the info
The problem with this game is the power curves. Just look at the graphs I made. Said no vega conflict player ever
This is a game alteration AND NOT A "BUG" and you know it. Make the punisher weaker and then release the new cruiser, which will be bigger and better. But only the mega coiners will benefit. You want us to trust you but time and time again you screw us over.
If this was a bug that the dev team knew about, why didn't kixeye say something a month ago. Don't answer that, because you was busy collecting our money from the punisher builds we was doing.
Trust broken, again. This company is so GREEDY and full of ****.
I agree. Based on game mechanics Many players decided to build only punishers because they were so good and those players now don't have other Xeno ships since until now punishers were good enough. Now those players are permanently screwed and probably asking themselves why to continue to play a game full of significant bugs. Vega is not game of tactic and planning, it is game of luck and pay to win.
this is gonna be a serious kick in the balls. thank you once again kix for wasting my time building and getting my punishers all to elite 6. how convienent, months and months to get enough parts to fully mark them up, and now you go and change them. sadly i am used to your bullshit so cant even be pissed off about it. this is just normal operating procedures for you guys
Well, many people will very pissed that their Punishers with XF DC will get a mass boost.
Agreed, and the game team is hyper aware of this. However, if there's a bug then we need to fix it. Hopefully the substantial refit discount period combined with getting free refits automatically for any ships that go overweight helps everyone get themselves sorted out.
How come every time something works in the players favor it's "A bug that needs to be fixed" But when it's something that parts them from their money it's "Working as the game intended"?
Death flies on the wings of the Blackbird of Hell.
Players plan builds on ships ahead of time. They might not have all the things equipped on a ship now to complete a build at mk5, but the planned build will no longer be viable and they would not qualify for a free refit. This seems unfair to everyone. Also it is entirely possible for ships to be undermass but over the mass levels for all ships to now fit into a fleet and require refitting due to this "bug".
Now going on the topic of bug. Armoured thrusters for Demon Corp also benefit for a armour mass reduction so does Xeno Armoured Thrusters. The former has been in the game for a long time will these be being "fixed"
It looks less like a bug fix and more like a game alteration.
Finally, Xeno pve fleets were balanced with punishers as they are now. Does this mean they will be rebalanced to make them easier in line with the alterations to the punisher cruiser
The Refit discount period has been extended to 48 hours and bumped to a 50% discount for players who need additional refits but don't qualify for the free one by being overweight.
My understanding is that only Armor and Armored Hold is eligible for the -% mass discount. Anything else that is currently giving the discount will not anymore. I've reached out to get additional clarification, though.
PvE fleet difficulty - as always - will be balanced in accordance with the data that we see from combat. If adjustments need to be made they will be.
Right...the first players to fight with these new rule sin place will again be your guinea pigs and will suffer excessive repairs - because of what? Ah, right, because it is their own fault that... Oh, wait... I got it wrong.... They are going to take a hit because YOU made a mistake and conveniently ignored it for half a year.
I don't know how it is handled on your planet, but as an IT professional with more than twenty years of experience I can tell you: fixing a bug which was in place for such a long time that your customers are now relying on it forcibly requires aligning with the customers. And in case you did not know: we, the playerbase, are your customers.
Are they required to strictly follow some fundamental "laws of game mechanics"?
Armor is armor... Right?, why can't this just be left alone??
U cannot make exceptions to armored thrusters just cuz.....
The "it's not a bug, it's a feature!" joke in game development holds water in some cases, but in most situations building off a broken system only comes back to haunt you later. If there's a bug, usually good to do your best to fix it.
In the Xeno season, there was a fairly legitimate argument to be made that the Punisher was equally good at accomplishing everything the specialized ships set out to do better. Cruisers are meant to be good general ships, but they're not meant to be so good that they're on the same level at the specific thing specialized attack ships are meant to be great at.
We had chalked it up to an unfortunate misstep when we first made the Punisher but it turns out a big part of the situation had to do with how powerful you could make the Punisher due to this bug. I could list lots of reasons as to why it took so long for that bug to make it onto our radar - but they'd all sound like excuses. Suffice to say - it just did.
So while the Xeno season was going, players had a bit of an edge. Build other ships if you want but primarily just focus on the one. That's not what we intended. So the bug needs to get fixed, first and foremost to not build off a broken system, secondly to draw the lines more clearly between the generalist and the specialized attack ships back to how they were always intended to be.
I know it's a painful change. The game team knows it too. Hopefully the free refits and the extended refit discount period minimizes the disruption as much as possible.
So you intentionally lead people into building ships with the wrong mass. Now - conveniently after half a year, and a week before new season start - you decided to "rip off the band-aid" (your words), no matter what. And, again conveniently, this "ripping off band-aid" is only painful to your customers, not to you. And please, please, pretty please, don't repeat the statement about "generous" offer of a two-days 50% refit discount. Considering the insane refit times, this is hardly enough to refit ONE ship, let alone multiple fleets. A much more fair solution would be to offer a one-time free refit for every Punisher.
As always - you guys are monetizing everything, even your own mistakes. And then you wonder why we don't trust you. Go figure!
Well, many people will very pissed that their Punishers with XF DC will get a mass boost.
Agreed, and the game team is hyper aware of this. However, if there's a bug then we need to fix it. Hopefully the substantial refit discount period combined with getting free refits automatically for any ships that go overweight helps everyone get themselves sorted out.
Why does Kixeye feel the constant need to do things that piss people off instead of doing things that people like? I spent months building and tuning my punisher fleet and now I get the middle finger. Will I get that lost time back that was spent adding armour when I could have been building something else? No, oh, another middle finger...will I get res refunded? No, yet another finger. Kix is an eight armed monster with lots if middle fingers for their paying customers. They really do deserve to go out of business.
The simplest solution is to remove the armor bonus from the Xeno disintegrator cannon and reduce the mass proportionally. There is limited benefit to the armor bonus if it doesn't have the mass reduction. We could then equip extra armor in armor slots that would benefit from the discount. Since the disintegrator cannon is ONLY usable on the Punisher, it is nearly the exclusive weapon used on the Punisher and definitely the major one that has an armor benefit. If Kixeye is sincere about fixing this "bug" that is the solution that should be applied. Making the weapon keep the less effective armor is actually hurting the effectiveness of the weapon, so if this is Kixeye's intent, then they are accomplishing their goal. So what is it Chris?
The mass values are: (with the current bug)
XDC I
MK 1: 1386
MK 2: 1247.4 (90%)
MK 3: 1108.8 (80%)
MK 4: 970.19 (70%)
MK 5: 900.9 (655)
XDC II
MK 1: 1782
MK 2: 1603.8 (90%)
MK 3: 1425.6 (80%)
MK 4: 1247.4 (70%)
MK 5: 1158.3 (65%)
this makes the xdc 2 have a mass to dps ratio of 4.2 at mk 5 ( the best of any xeno weapon on the punisher).
Fixing this will return it to 7.2 on all mk's which brings it back inline with other xeno weapons. They could change the mass to bring it on 6.3 which is the dps to mass ratio of cluster and rupture beam and keep some of the mass benefit but they are not doing so. It will just mean there are other choices now on weapons for punishers. The build times of the xdc is still making it the most viable choice
The mass to DPS ratio is NOT the problem. The problem is that the armor mass associated with the XDC does not have any resistances. Right now the XDC can be equipped with 3 EXAL 2 armors and get the benefit of the resistances and the full firepower. This will no longer be possible with the changes. For the XDC2 x4 with its 891 x4 health that means an extra 1,274 tons will be associated with equipping them at Mk5. That is almost exactly the same as the cost of a EXAL 2's weight cost of 1,301 tons. That means the loss of 4,555 health for the same weight! And that health will NOT have the resistances of the EXAL, ENAL, of PRAL armor. If I am misinterpreting this, I would like to know how. (see edit below)
If I am correct, this means the loss of over 27,000 health points on a Mk5 Punisher x6 fleet and substantial damage reductions from resistances. Many people didn't get any or enough XDC 1's, so making a good fit weight wise will be much more difficult without that option. So removing the armor bonus from the XDC is the only reasonable way to keep things from having drastic consequences.
EDIT: I see now that the 35% mass reduction was applied to the entire mass of the XDCs, not just their armor values. So my previous suggestion of lowering the mass of the XDC and removing the armor would be helpful, but not a panacea. And as you so accurately state, they are not doing it anyway since the planned update is in the can so to speak. My suggestion then is to refit your Pun's that are too low to qualify for the free refit with Sweep Launcher 5, in the second special slot which is not used in many Pun builds. The refit is only 90 minutes and adds 20% to weapon mass pretty much guaranteeing an overmass situation that qualifies for the free refit. Of course the special is completely useless, but the free refit will more than make up for the 1.5 hours of refit time per ship.
There goes the neighborhood. I'm like many other, mid level players, are stuck with only one hull bp at this time so far that's the only one i was able to get was the anni hull BP complete in 2 months kixeye. I won't even get the chance to even use the tech before new "****" aka re-skinned hulls "Axis" comes out lol.didn't even get chance to even build one ship to test little alone, a fleet of Xeno cuz there costly as hell and just to get enough intel for one hull bp took me that much time over a month to 2 months just to get enough help by others and strong enough fleets, of grind that's a lot for my average playing perspective. I figured by the time some of us would get the tech I heard a rumors last month about the new releases coming out a long time ago. I learned this years ago before the first re-balance 5 years ago to this date, things always change. I seen this **** coming a long time ago. This over-balancing the under-balancing happens every time a new factor comes out. I figured I had time to build and try the xeno tech, but guess i was wrong like many others that will be let down by these posts and bad news.
Well, many people will very pissed that their Punishers with XF DC will get a mass boost.
Agreed, and the game team is hyper aware of this. However, if there's a bug then we need to fix it. Hopefully the substantial refit discount period combined with getting free refits automatically for any ships that go overweight helps everyone get themselves sorted out.
Why does Kixeye feel the constant need to do things that piss people off instead of doing things that people like? I spent months building and tuning my punisher fleet and now I get the middle finger. Will I get that lost time back that was spent adding armour when I could have been building something else? No, oh, another middle finger...will I get res refunded? No, yet another finger. Kix is an eight armed monster with lots if middle fingers for their paying customers. They really do deserve to go out of business.
Before I forget - if customers spent money to buy time to complete a build which you now invalidate, will they be refunded that amount for whatever they now have to remove from their punisher(e.g. Refund me 1 day per armour fitted that now has to come off)? After all, you are 'stealing' either time or coins back off us - coins should be refunded either as coins or time credits. Free ref it's only apply to remove stuff, so that is not a refund.
I hope when you mean free refit you will honor it, so all those reusable items with two days refit wont apply, we all know how sneaky you are Kixeye.. will this free refit also mean no additional Resource's required, it had better.
But of course most will be removing stuff and loosing days of refit time, the 50% does not benefit what we have done in the past just all those blank hulls we have stocked piled... so will you be honoring this as free refit tokens so we are NOT punished for your mistake and time that we have spent and loads of Coin.
I have two fleets of Punishers all at maximum weight with a few spares, so I'm going to be Royally screwed over. Not too mention my Exterminators and Anni's are on max weight..
I also forgot, what about all of us that have calculated the fleets to be right on the nose for weight. This free refit wont allow us to keep coming back to that hull and tweaking it so we have the perfect weight to usability. Will the free refit apply to the same hull for the whole 48 period allowing us to get our ship and fleet just right, like what we have already done and spent time and coin getting just right.. have you even though about this and how some people are going to be really punished by YOUR mistake.
Why not give some additional weight bonus to the MK6 and make them worth while getting. Only cargo increase will not make people waste there time on to get.
And if you are releasing a new Hull Teir.. very stupid mistake, the Xeon class will take at least 1.5 yrs for a normal coiner to have.. you have forgotten about all these stupid refit times that you have applied on kit you have won which should include a free fit.
What about people that only got Xeon Disintergrator 2's because they would fit there calculated build.. but now do not have any Xeon Diintergrator 1's to fit and help with the refit, will you be giving people free Xeon Disintergrator 1's if they are swapping out there Xeon Disintergrator 2's as they dont have any.. and if you know go.. frack.. I did not think of that.. will we be loosing our Xeon Disintergrator 2's for this swap or will you just give as a sorry for the mistake. hmmmmmm.. I know not every one got all those Xeon Disnitergrators and even more thought they where a waste of time as you could max out with Xeon Disintergrator 2's will loads of space.
Also, what about people that have calculated weight and got Explosive or Projectile resistors, I know Im now going to have to sacrafice these for the weight but I don't have any of the MK1 or MK2 in some cases, so if I don't have these as credits I wont be able to fit.. so I am going to get punished for making my fleets to exact weight. So will the free refit mean that everything will be free, even resistor credits.. I bet this is another thing you have not thought off. I know I'm going to loose loads that I have worked hard on with getting BA and also some I had to purchase with coin.
Clearly kixeye has not sat down and thought about all the things people could be loosing or not have during these refits.
Wow kix u are seriously screwing us over by greatly increasing the mass of all punisher weapons. All of our punishers will be worthless now. You cant just decide to change how mass of weapons is distributed this late in the game. We have been building punishers for months. We will require lenghty refits that cant be accomplished in 48 hrs. Also you have buffed the event fleets so much that any reduction in armor will make punishers nearly worthless. They wont be able to withstand multiple hits.
If you read the release notes, if your Punisher did end up becoming overweight due to the new rules of the XF DC, you'll be given a free refit. That means no time will be wasted redoing the Punisher. Who knows, maybe you can take advantage of this and swap out the XF DC with another XF weapon or add more/better armor.
A free refit in no way whatsoever is just compensation for those players that spent hundreds of dollars on coins to build and fit them in the first place. You're saving us some time, that's awesome, but how about compensating us the only thing that really matters in this game; the coins.
We're already facing fleets where pilot skill doesn't mean a **** thing. It doesn't matter how good of a pilot you are, you're going to take forced damage from alien event fleets and outposts. Which means that you either hit that repair button and come back later, or coin it. We all know that the intention behind such a drastic change is to coerce the spending player base into spending more on significantly increased damage from this nerf.
The simplest solution is to remove the armor bonus from the Xeno disintegrator cannon and reduce the mass proportionally. There is limited benefit to the armor bonus if it doesn't have the mass reduction. We could then equip extra armor in armor slots that would benefit from the discount. Since the disintegrator cannon is ONLY usable on the Punisher, it is nearly the exclusive weapon used on the Punisher and definitely the major one that has an armor benefit. If Kixeye is sincere about fixing this "bug" that is the solution that should be applied. Making the weapon keep the less effective armor is actually hurting the effectiveness of the weapon, so if this is Kixeye's intent, then they are accomplishing their goal. So what is it Chris?
The mass values are: (with the current bug)
XDC I
MK 1: 1386
MK 2: 1247.4 (90%)
MK 3: 1108.8 (80%)
MK 4: 970.19 (70%)
MK 5: 900.9 (655)
XDC II
MK 1: 1782
MK 2: 1603.8 (90%)
MK 3: 1425.6 (80%)
MK 4: 1247.4 (70%)
MK 5: 1158.3 (65%)
this makes the xdc 2 have a mass to dps ratio of 4.2 at mk 5 ( the best of any xeno weapon on the punisher).
Fixing this will return it to 7.2 on all mk's which brings it back inline with other xeno weapons. They could change the mass to bring it on 6.3 which is the dps to mass ratio of cluster and rupture beam and keep some of the mass benefit but they are not doing so. It will just mean there are other choices now on weapons for punishers. The build times of the xdc is still making it the most viable choice
Are you sure of this? I've just tryied to remove XD from puni mk3 and get about 1710 extra mass. It looks like mass reduction bonus is appplied only to armour part if XD. If so it isn't so bad as it looks. In my case xeno armoured thrusters solves the issue (if I'm not missing sth.).
@CM Chris in the "minor fixes" part of this update, will there be a fix for the suppressor not targeting a squadron whenever a ship comes into range? Meaning making it possible for the suppressor to target 1 ship and 1 squadron at the same time? One can be hopeful
Not that I'm aware of - but that is a functionality change the design team is pushing for. Priority targets get a little weird when you add Targeting Computer into the mix and the end intention is to have Suppressor able to target 1 ship and 1 squadron or maybe even only target squadrons even if another ship is in range.
How about xenoshater driver? Will it be fixed in this release?
lol, that effectively means that if someone decides to ruin your event by attacking with the new marauder class ships and weps , you are not even able to defend yourself...ha...what are you actually trying to fix kix apart from revenue levels?
@Brahemian said:
The simplest solution is to remove the armor bonus from the Xeno disintegrator cannon and reduce the mass proportionally. There is limited benefit to the armor bonus if it doesn't have the mass reduction. We could then equip extra armor in armor slots that would benefit from the discount. Since the disintegrator cannon is ONLY usable on the Punisher, it is nearly the exclusive weapon used on the Punisher and definitely the major one that has an armor benefit. If Kixeye is sincere about fixing this "bug" that is the solution that should be applied. Making the weapon keep the less effective armor is actually hurting the effectiveness of the weapon, so if this is Kixeye's intent, then they are accomplishing their goal. So what is it Chris?
@cm chris I realize you are the messenger... that said...you are not advocating at all for this community in this situation...^^This is a viable solution to the "bug" or "misake"... You want to "rip the bandaid off" do it the right way. Your analogy doesn't work BTW...why is the bandaid for Kix'so mistake our painful experience. It is unethical! What you are stating is a bug is actually a massive change that will affect most players negatively, and it is over a technicality. The argument that it is not right so it needs to be fixed is so ridiculous as to be completely laughable...what about EVERY single other thing that is not right that does not get fixed????
How much of this decision is based on the timing of the new event fleets possibly not being quite OP enough for these new event fleets? You are covering up that the Punisher will impact your financial goals for the new tier...completely unacceptable.
It's good to have the free refit, and a 50% refit discount is just awesome, thanks!
New changes are nice, but we need more specific descriptions about Marauder faction and VIP system.
In the Xeno season, there was a fairly legitimate argument to be made that the Punisher was equally good at accomplishing everything the specialized ships set out to do better. Cruisers are meant to be good general ships, but they're not meant to be so good that they're on the same level at the specific thing specialized attack ships are meant to be great at.
We had chalked it up to an unfortunate misstep when we first made the Punisher but it turns out a big part of the situation had to do with how powerful you could make the Punisher due to this bug. I could list lots of reasons as to why it took so long for that bug to make it onto our radar - but they'd all sound like excuses. Suffice to say - it just did.
So while the Xeno season was going, players had a bit of an edge. Build other ships if you want but primarily just focus on the one. That's not what we intended. So the bug needs to get fixed, first and foremost to not build off a broken system, secondly to draw the lines more clearly between the generalist and the specialized attack ships back to how they were always intended to be.
What I find the most appalling by this entire post, is the fact that the Punisher Cruiser was designed to be this way and you're now chocking it's superiority up to a "bug", that it wasn't supposed to be as powerful as it is.
“Built to be the front line hull of the Xeno Division, the Punisher Cruiser is capable of withstanding a tremendous amount of enemy fire…”
Specifically built, as referenced by Kixeyes very own description, to be a beast. To sit on the front lines as the most important ship, right up close to the enemy and "withstand a tremendous amount of enemy fire.."
Oddly enough, as powerful as Punishers are, we've all seen full fleets of Elites get destroyed by well piloted battleships with Net Torps, (hell even "obsolete" Hellfires) or one or two of the new Suppressors. As "overpowered" as they are, they still get their **** kicked against the right opponent and even pvp fleets and you want to diminish their effectiveness? Bad form.
Another concern about the upcoming "Punisher penalty" . As has happened before, it will be likely that the Punishers themselves will NOT go overweight earning the free refit credit, but the fleet will be overweight and will have to be refitted AT THE PLAYERS expense. The 50% refit will in no way make up for that time lost. Sure, it may be as simple as just removing a piece of armor, but why should the player have to compromise to correct for this? In my case my Elite Pun's all have about 13,5k mass and the fleet checks in at less than 100 tons from fleet max. Each ship has over 2000 tons to spare, so none will go over and earn the refit, but the fleet will be too heavy to fly. Long timers will remember this same problem from a while back.
Wow kix u are seriously screwing us over by greatly increasing the mass of all punisher weapons. All of our punishers will be worthless now. You cant just decide to change how mass of weapons is distributed this late in the game. We have been building punishers for months. We will require lenghty refits that cant be accomplished in 48 hrs. Also you have buffed the event fleets so much that any reduction in armor will make punishers nearly worthless. They wont be able to withstand multiple hits.
If you read the release notes, if your Punisher did end up becoming overweight due to the new rules of the XF DC, you'll be given a free refit. That means no time will be wasted redoing the Punisher. Who knows, maybe you can take advantage of this and swap out the XF DC with another XF weapon or add more/better armor.
Oh yes I can refit them into ships with far less armor that will die very quickly on all the overbuffed event fleets. But hey kix has to make us want their new stuff by nerfing our old stuff.
Now you understand why the great Nerf of 2016 was so important. They will bait ans switch until the money stops rolling in. Most of us are left with little as KIx won't have easy res 40-50 lvl hives. Not specialized PVP ships??? After wasting time on Xeno. Good bet is player who wants the pvp ships will have to jump thru lots of hoops!
Soo if i get thise right.punishers ar geting nerfd and repers,barages,bases,harvesters ar geting buffed and points pay out from flets is lowerd ewry event.soo hou ar we sopostu farm alien flets now?
FIXED: Punisher Cruisers were incorrectly applying their -% Armor
Mass bonus to weapons and specials that are not considered Armor, even
though they provide health. This Armor Mass bonus should only apply to
items in an Armor Slot and the Armored Hold special, nothing else. This
has been fixed, and will likely result in a weight increase for most
upgraded Punisher Cruisers. If your ship becomes overweight, it will
automatically trigger a free refit. We have also increased the upcoming
refit discount period to a 50% discount instead of the usual 20%, and
this discount will run for 48 hours starting July 4th at 3PM PDT.
Incorrectly applying?? That became Punishers feature what they reduce mass of disintegrator cannons! How long it existet.. half of year? And now you noticed it? Lets be honest, punishers with disintegrators very popular, you jast make them all useless. What point in free refit of useless ship? There was so much punisher-coin offers, every month! And now just after event related to punisher craftind you nerf it so hard! Do not move this post to Downtime & Release discussion.
This is a game alteration AND NOT A "BUG" and you know it. Make the punisher weaker and then release the new cruiser, which will be bigger and better. But only the mega coiners will benefit. You want us to trust you but time and time again you screw us over.
If this was a bug that the dev team knew about, why didn't kixeye say something a month ago. Don't answer that, because you was busy collecting our money from the punisher builds we was doing.
Trust broken, again. This company is so GREEDY and full of ****.
I agree. Based on game mechanics Many players decided to build only punishers because they were so good and those players now don't have other Xeno ships since until now punishers were good enough. Now those players are permanently screwed and probably asking themselves why to continue to play a game full of significant bugs. Vega is not game of tactic and planning, it is game of luck and pay to win.
Then that was a gamble by those people. Kixeye communicated their intention with season 6 multiple times during the season. Including with the release of each hull. The punisher was never intended to be the master key to all encounters in this season. If someone seriously thought kixeye would repeatedly say one thing then do another to the players benefit, then even the worst conspiracy theorists among us cant have seriously believed that was anything else than an unintended side effect of a bug. There is another name for relying on an unintended fault or weakness in a game release. Thats exploiting.
So if someone exploited this bug to avoid building the required hulls for the encounters this season then there is no sympathy to be had for them. They gambled on something that was even from the beginning extremely unlikely and thus only have themselves to blaim. Yes it was a way for non coiners to "keep up" or "go from rags to riches" to do the most difficult content but that was never intended for them to do. AXIS season cements this even more by removing other shortcuts in the events.
Thats just the facts. What we think about this is up to us personally and if we dont like it we can always find another game to play. But nobody can accuse kixeye of wrongdoing when they have been upfront with us about their intention all along.
I don't think reducing armor (by increasing mass) is gonna make the pun any less versatile/effective and have a significant impact in a short period in July?
Please see if this change can happen in the next down time.
It's already baked in to the release - we're ripping the bandaid off now. Better to get it out of the way and move forward rather than let this hang over the game for a month.
That is such utter bs chris. There is no reason but greed for kix to nerf punishers. If there was a mistake it was kix's. Why are we punished for your mistake? Clearly the way punishers are now is not game breaking as we have gone a full season with them like this. We have spent months building punishers. Many have spent hundreds of dollars building them. Then you do bait and switch nerf right before next tier is released. Shame on you chris and shame on kix. Dont you pretend that this punisher nerf was necessary and that you are doing us a favor by shafting all of the players. Why should anyone give kix one more penny? What incentive do we have when you time and time again do bait and switch on your customers? You dont even apologize for nerfing our ships with little warning, little recompense and even less reason.
How are you so certain that they knew about this "bug" for months now? It was only recently that the XD getting the mass reduction was even mentioned on the forums. Players loved that about it, and thought it was a feature, so they didn't complain about it.
@CM Chris I, for one, would actually love to know the reasons for it taking this long to find it. I think part of the reason is that nobody actually paid attention to how much mass the cannons were adding in testing.
For xdc2^
previously when free refits where giving or discounts, your factory had to be open. im sure this will be the case again
Actually no, during the grand rebalance if your ship became overmassed, you didn't need the fleet bay open to refit.
Other factors come into play i.e anything that adds ship mass like thrusters in the calculations. I already have made the changes on shipcalc but I am waiting to hear from Chris on if armoured thrusters are being altered aswell since this will also affect demon corp ships. Once I know i will make the changes on my testing server and upload the new version after the downtime update on the 2nd, or maybe the night before if i have all the info
I agree. Based on game mechanics Many players decided to build only punishers because they were so good and those players now don't have other Xeno ships since until now punishers were good enough. Now those players are permanently screwed and probably asking themselves why to continue to play a game full of significant bugs. Vega is not game of tactic and planning, it is game of luck and pay to win.
How come every time something works in the players favor it's "A bug that needs to be fixed" But when it's something that parts them from their money it's "Working as the game intended"?
Right...the first players to fight with these new rule sin place will again be your guinea pigs and will suffer excessive repairs - because of what? Ah, right, because it is their own fault that... Oh, wait... I got it wrong.... They are going to take a hit because YOU made a mistake and conveniently ignored it for half a year.
I don't know how it is handled on your planet, but as an IT professional with more than twenty years of experience I can tell you: fixing a bug which was in place for such a long time that your customers are now relying on it forcibly requires aligning with the customers. And in case you did not know: we, the playerbase, are your customers.
So you intentionally lead people into building ships with the wrong mass. Now - conveniently after half a year, and a week before new season start - you decided to "rip off the band-aid" (your words), no matter what. And, again conveniently, this "ripping off band-aid" is only painful to your customers, not to you.
And please, please, pretty please, don't repeat the statement about "generous" offer of a two-days 50% refit discount. Considering the insane refit times, this is hardly enough to refit ONE ship, let alone multiple fleets. A much more fair solution would be to offer a one-time free refit for every Punisher.
As always - you guys are monetizing everything, even your own mistakes. And then you wonder why we don't trust you. Go figure!
Why does Kixeye feel the constant need to do things that piss people off instead of doing things that people like? I spent months building and tuning my punisher fleet and now I get the middle finger. Will I get that lost time back that was spent adding armour when I could have been building something else? No, oh, another middle finger...will I get res refunded? No, yet another finger. Kix is an eight armed monster with lots if middle fingers for their paying customers. They really do deserve to go out of business.
The mass to DPS ratio is NOT the problem. The problem is that the armor mass associated with the XDC does not have any resistances. Right now the XDC can be equipped with 3 EXAL 2 armors and get the benefit of the resistances and the full firepower. This will no longer be possible with the changes. For the XDC2 x4 with its 891 x4 health that means an extra 1,274 tons will be associated with equipping them at Mk5. That is almost exactly the same as the cost of a EXAL 2's weight cost of 1,301 tons. That means the loss of 4,555 health for the same weight! And that health will NOT have the resistances of the EXAL, ENAL, of PRAL armor. If I am misinterpreting this, I would like to know how. (see edit below)
If I am correct, this means the loss of over 27,000 health points on a Mk5 Punisher x6 fleet and substantial damage reductions from resistances. Many people didn't get any or enough XDC 1's, so making a good fit weight wise will be much more difficult without that option. So removing the armor bonus from the XDC is the only reasonable way to keep things from having drastic consequences.
EDIT: I see now that the 35% mass reduction was applied to the entire mass of the XDCs, not just their armor values. So my previous suggestion of lowering the mass of the XDC and removing the armor would be helpful, but not a panacea. And as you so accurately state, they are not doing it anyway since the planned update is in the can so to speak. My suggestion then is to refit your Pun's that are too low to qualify for the free refit with Sweep Launcher 5, in the second special slot which is not used in many Pun builds. The refit is only 90 minutes and adds 20% to weapon mass pretty much guaranteeing an overmass situation that qualifies for the free refit. Of course the special is completely useless, but the free refit will more than make up for the 1.5 hours of refit time per ship.
Before I forget - if customers spent money to buy time to complete a build which you now invalidate, will they be refunded that amount for whatever they now have to remove from their punisher(e.g. Refund me 1 day per armour fitted that now has to come off)? After all, you are 'stealing' either time or coins back off us - coins should be refunded either as coins or time credits. Free ref it's only apply to remove stuff, so that is not a refund.
But of course most will be removing stuff and loosing days of refit time, the 50% does not benefit what we have done in the past just all those blank hulls we have stocked piled... so will you be honoring this as free refit tokens so we are NOT punished for your mistake and time that we have spent and loads of Coin.
I have two fleets of Punishers all at maximum weight with a few spares, so I'm going to be Royally screwed over. Not too mention my Exterminators and Anni's are on max weight..
I also forgot, what about all of us that have calculated the fleets to be right on the nose for weight. This free refit wont allow us to keep coming back to that hull and tweaking it so we have the perfect weight to usability. Will the free refit apply to the same hull for the whole 48 period allowing us to get our ship and fleet just right, like what we have already done and spent time and coin getting just right.. have you even though about this and how some people are going to be really punished by YOUR mistake.
Why not give some additional weight bonus to the MK6 and make them worth while getting. Only cargo increase will not make people waste there time on to get.
And if you are releasing a new Hull Teir.. very stupid mistake, the Xeon class will take at least 1.5 yrs for a normal coiner to have.. you have forgotten about all these stupid refit times that you have applied on kit you have won which should include a free fit.
Also, what about people that have calculated weight and got Explosive or Projectile resistors, I know Im now going to have to sacrafice these for the weight but I don't have any of the MK1 or MK2 in some cases, so if I don't have these as credits I wont be able to fit.. so I am going to get punished for making my fleets to exact weight. So will the free refit mean that everything will be free, even resistor credits.. I bet this is another thing you have not thought off. I know I'm going to loose loads that I have worked hard on with getting BA and also some I had to purchase with coin.
Clearly kixeye has not sat down and thought about all the things people could be loosing or not have during these refits.
A free refit in no way whatsoever is just compensation for those players that spent hundreds of dollars on coins to build and fit them in the first place. You're saving us some time, that's awesome, but how about compensating us the only thing that really matters in this game; the coins.
We're already facing fleets where pilot skill doesn't mean a **** thing. It doesn't matter how good of a pilot you are, you're going to take forced damage from alien event fleets and outposts. Which means that you either hit that repair button and come back later, or coin it. We all know that the intention behind such a drastic change is to coerce the spending player base into spending more on significantly increased damage from this nerf.
Are you sure of this? I've just tryied to remove XD from puni mk3 and get about 1710 extra mass. It looks like mass reduction bonus is appplied only to armour part if XD. If so it isn't so bad as it looks. In my case xeno armoured thrusters solves the issue (if I'm not missing sth.).
How about xenoshater driver? Will it be fixed in this release?
@cm chris I realize you are the messenger... that said...you are not advocating at all for this community in this situation...^^This is a viable solution to the "bug" or "misake"... You want to "rip the bandaid off" do it the right way. Your analogy doesn't work BTW...why is the bandaid for Kix'so mistake our painful experience. It is unethical! What you are stating is a bug is actually a massive change that will affect most players negatively, and it is over a technicality. The argument that it is not right so it needs to be fixed is so ridiculous as to be completely laughable...what about EVERY single other thing that is not right that does not get fixed????
How much of this decision is based on the timing of the new event fleets possibly not being quite OP enough for these new event fleets? You are covering up that the Punisher will impact your financial goals for the new tier...completely unacceptable.
It's good to have the free refit, and a 50% refit discount is just awesome, thanks!
New changes are nice, but we need more specific descriptions about Marauder faction and VIP system.
“Built to be the front line hull of the Xeno Division, the Punisher Cruiser is capable of withstanding a tremendous amount of enemy fire…”
Specifically built, as referenced by Kixeyes very own description, to be a beast. To sit on the front lines as the most important ship, right up close to the enemy and "withstand a tremendous amount of enemy fire.."
Oddly enough, as powerful as Punishers are, we've all seen full fleets of Elites get destroyed by well piloted battleships with Net Torps, (hell even "obsolete" Hellfires) or one or two of the new Suppressors. As "overpowered" as they are, they still get their **** kicked against the right opponent and even pvp fleets and you want to diminish their effectiveness? Bad form.
Now you understand why the great Nerf of 2016 was so important. They will bait ans switch until the money stops rolling in. Most of us are left with little as KIx won't have easy res 40-50 lvl hives. Not specialized PVP ships??? After wasting time on Xeno. Good bet is player who wants the pvp ships will have to jump thru lots of hoops!
Soo if i get thise right.punishers ar geting nerfd and repers,barages,bases,harvesters ar geting buffed and points pay out from flets is lowerd ewry event.soo hou ar we sopostu farm alien flets now?
Incorrectly applying?? That became Punishers feature what they reduce mass of disintegrator cannons! How long it existet.. half of year? And now you noticed it?
Lets be honest, punishers with disintegrators very popular, you jast make them all useless. What point in free refit of useless ship?
There was so much punisher-coin offers, every month!
And now just after event related to punisher craftind you nerf it so hard!
Do not move this post to Downtime & Release discussion.
I 100% leave this game if you do this.
VIP levels are retroactive, its in the AXIS season post.
Then that was a gamble by those people. Kixeye communicated their intention with season 6 multiple times during the season. Including with the release of each hull. The punisher was never intended to be the master key to all encounters in this season. If someone seriously thought kixeye would repeatedly say one thing then do another to the players benefit, then even the worst conspiracy theorists among us cant have seriously believed that was anything else than an unintended side effect of a bug. There is another name for relying on an unintended fault or weakness in a game release. Thats exploiting.
So if someone exploited this bug to avoid building the required hulls for the encounters this season then there is no sympathy to be had for them. They gambled on something that was even from the beginning extremely unlikely and thus only have themselves to blaim. Yes it was a way for non coiners to "keep up" or "go from rags to riches" to do the most difficult content but that was never intended for them to do. AXIS season cements this even more by removing other shortcuts in the events.
Thats just the facts. What we think about this is up to us personally and if we dont like it we can always find another game to play. But nobody can accuse kixeye of wrongdoing when they have been upfront with us about their intention all along.
Will we ever be able to hit those?
How are you so certain that they knew about this "bug" for months now? It was only recently that the XD getting the mass reduction was even mentioned on the forums. Players loved that about it, and thought it was a feature, so they didn't complain about it.
@CM Chris I, for one, would actually love to know the reasons for it taking this long to find it. I think part of the reason is that nobody actually paid attention to how much mass the cannons were adding in testing.