market feedback and suggestion.

R4b1dG04t
R4b1dG04t
Minor Nuisance
Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 282

This is a little of both, features and feedback...

First the feedback.
There has been a lot of backlash about the black market lately, and rightly so. It is disgusting, our time spent logging in to the game is worth very little. 100 BA = 60 coins now... 5 days for a mid-high lvl player of grinding mission is equivalent to some kid spending $0.60 american... it's insulting. I'm not going to comment on the gamble as that has already been addressed by @CM LXC.
The feedback I am trying to give is that the coin rates in the black market makes players feel unappreciated unless we spend money. This reflects our initial concern of kixeye being pay to win. I know that isn't the intention, but I must convey my thoughts as a player.

Suggestions.
I would like to see some things in the BM that reward our time. Offer older event hulls, for BA.
For example, offer a zeal battleship for 150-200 BA. Not the blueprint, just 1 empty hull. This is a commensurate reward our hard work. 10 days of work a single ship is fair. This may take some effort to implement, but the added work is worth the reward of increased player loyalty and a willingness to coin more to support a fair game. Loyal players will coin to support a game if they believe the coins are a reward to the devs, not a requirement to be successful.

Tl:dr, the bm as it is now is bad mmmkay

  • Xcallibre
    Xcallibre
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2015 Posts: 18
    I completely agree Rabid , I don't think the BM has ever been as bad unless there trying to phase it out now that there is crafting. Your suggestions are indeed sound. Would be nice if Kixeye could do something to vamp it up sort of speak.
  • FusionInferno1
    FusionInferno1
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,729
    i recall a teaser specifically stating larus would sell "out of circulation" tech (aka event tech) in his market while algol sells materials (in a better way than larus of course)... that teaser was deleted... even though that wouldve been the BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO THE BLACK MARKET

    just existing at this point

  • R4b1dG04t
    R4b1dG04t
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 282

    @spring nightmare said:
    i recall a teaser specifically stating larus would sell "out of circulation" tech (aka event tech) in his market while algol sells materials (in a better way than larus of course)... that teaser was deleted... even though that wouldve been the BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO THE BLACK MARKET

    I remember that too. Where oh where did that go?

  • Lorantil
    Lorantil
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 388

    I thing is the proportion of BA to coins. Another thing is that it is much easier to get T3/T4 core box than to do the missions for BA.


    What's the point of doing missions now?


  • Vanguard00
    Vanguard00
    Greenhorn
    Joined Oct 2015 Posts: 12
    I agree the BM is not serving its purpose lately. Its become a joke.  I've not bought a thing from it the last two times it was around.  Researchable items in the BM seem a waste to me.   Also drop boxes are waste of space there.  They should  offer a specific pattern or core, right now you can spend 50 BA for a box and end up with a T1 core that you can easily get in a few seconds of your time.

    Event items would be nice, I'd like to see Blueprint pieces added even if its 150 BA for 1 BP piece.   And there should be a lot more items available.  Why limit it to a dozen or so?  Put in 100 items or at least 50, that will give more choices to people.

  • R4b1dG04t
    R4b1dG04t
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 282
    @CM LXC I summon thee.

    I would like to get your opinion on this. not an official word from kixeye if you cant give that, but your opinion would be greatly appreciated.
  • LXC
    LXC
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 2,241
    Hulls in the BM is something I've personally wanted to do for while. I'm not sold on your specific example though. Event tech for 200 BA is ridiculously cheap, if you do that you're massively devaluing the time and money players have spent when doing the event, then building the ship.

    I would be more OK with something like blueprint hulls (e.g. apocs) in the black market (although you do realise we'd likely offer ships for coins alongside the ships for BA), because that is more inline with the black markets original purpose. This is a nicer compromise, because the hull is still obtainable by other means, you're just using Blood amber as a shortcut. This would also take the sting out of people who are screwed by the RNG, when bp hunting, since as long as you're doing missions when BP hunting, you'll still get access to the tech (however limited in scope).

    Fun story time: A while ago, an idea for "hiring" ships for a limited time from the black market was floating around. You would spend your blood amber, and get access to limited (yes that means event) tech for a short amount of time (roughly 24 hours). I can try and resurrect that conversation, if you'd like.
  • FusionInferno1
    FusionInferno1
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,729

    @CM LXC said:
    Hulls in the BM is something I've personally wanted to do for while. I'm not sold on your specific example though. Event tech for 200 BA is ridiculously cheap, if you do that you're massively devaluing the time and money players have spent when doing the event, then building the ship.

    I would be more OK with something like blueprint hulls (e.g. apocs) in the black market (although you do realise we'd likely offer ships for coins alongside the ships for BA), because that is more inline with the black markets original purpose. This is a nicer compromise, because the hull is still obtainable by other means, you're just using Blood amber as a shortcut. This would also take the sting out of people who are screwed by the RNG, when bp hunting, since as long as you're doing missions when BP hunting, you'll still get access to the tech (however limited in scope).

    Fun story time: A while ago, an idea for "hiring" ships for a limited time from the black market was floating around. You would spend your blood amber, and get access to limited (yes that means event) tech for a short amount of time (roughly 24 hours). I can try and resurrect that conversation, if you'd like.

    how bout this :p all ship bps are 8 pieces from regular tiers why not do the same for event tech and make each of the 8 pieces worth 200 ba... thatll get us working and also put multiple choices in each... forcing us to make a decision on what event ship we want to start earning bp pieces for :p... hows that sound LXC? besides who the **** knows what will come to this game a year to 2 years from now so when u get your event ship it might just be time for something that beats it is released

    just existing at this point

  • R4b1dG04t
    R4b1dG04t
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 282
    CM LXC said:
    Hulls in the BM is something I've personally wanted to do for while. I'm not sold on your specific example though. Event tech for 200 BA is ridiculously cheap, if you do that you're massively devaluing the time and money players have spent when doing the event, then building the ship.

    I would be more OK with something like blueprint hulls (e.g. apocs) in the black market (although you do realise we'd likely offer ships for coins alongside the ships for BA), because that is more inline with the black markets original purpose. This is a nicer compromise, because the hull is still obtainable by other means, you're just using Blood amber as a shortcut. This would also take the sting out of people who are screwed by the RNG, when bp hunting, since as long as you're doing missions when BP hunting, you'll still get access to the tech (however limited in scope).

    Fun story time: A while ago, an idea for "hiring" ships for a limited time from the black market was floating around. You would spend your blood amber, and get access to limited (yes that means event) tech for a short amount of time (roughly 24 hours). I can try and resurrect that conversation, if you'd like.
    I agree with you about the devaluation of our time and money, however, exactly how much effort does an end game player put into events nowadays? 3 hours for the revenge event seems like much less than saving up BA for 10 days. I was only working within the current constraints though.
     Specifically I think an increase to the BA cap would alleviate the devaluation of players work and money. so for example, if the BA cap was 500, a zeal might not be out of the question. almost a month of work for one single ship seems more than fair. I think this would increase the depth of the game also. I don't think these ships should be coinable though, that devalues the almost full month spent playing.

    Regarding the devaluation of players time though, the prices for BA and Coins aren't equitable. (please forgive me rebels) but the coin cost is too low. if players want to coin, fine, but our time should be valued more. a decrease for BA cost for boxes needs to be brought up if the coin cost isnt addressed.

    I like the idea of renting hulls and if what I suggested isnt possible it could be a fair substitute. speculatively though, how do you feel about buying one ship for 500 BA?
  • LXC
    LXC
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 2,241
    R4b1dG04t said:

    Regarding the devaluation of players time though, the prices for BA and Coins aren't equitable. (please forgive me rebels) but the coin cost is too low. if players want to coin, fine, but our time should be valued more. a decrease for BA cost for boxes needs to be brought up if the coin cost isnt addressed.

    I like the idea of renting hulls and if what I suggested isnt possible it could be a fair substitute. speculatively though, how do you feel about buying one ship for 500 BA?
    I agree with the lowering of the BA costs for boxes.

    Buying one ship for 500 BA isn't bad, but it's predicated on increasing the BA cap, which I don't see happening.
  • FusionInferno1
    FusionInferno1
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,729
    CM LXC said:
    R4b1dG04t said:

    Regarding the devaluation of players time though, the prices for BA and Coins aren't equitable. (please forgive me rebels) but the coin cost is too low. if players want to coin, fine, but our time should be valued more. a decrease for BA cost for boxes needs to be brought up if the coin cost isnt addressed.

    I like the idea of renting hulls and if what I suggested isnt possible it could be a fair substitute. speculatively though, how do you feel about buying one ship for 500 BA?
    I agree with the lowering of the BA costs for boxes.

    Buying one ship for 500 BA isn't bad, but it's predicated on increasing the BA cap, which I don't see happening.
    lower the ba cost yes... increase the coin cost? your fcking bat **** insane dude... at the current amount it costs a pretty good amount of money already if u buy it with coin :p the coin cost is fine (stupid and **** up idea though... i recall the bm was not suppose to have such a thing)... and LXC u didnt reply to my suggestion about the event ships (or event tech in general) :p i for one think my idea for it would work fine for how powerful that **** is

    just existing at this point

  • shadow228
    shadow228
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 887
    CM LXC said:
    R4b1dG04t said:

    Regarding the devaluation of players time though, the prices for BA and Coins aren't equitable. (please forgive me rebels) but the coin cost is too low. if players want to coin, fine, but our time should be valued more. a decrease for BA cost for boxes needs to be brought up if the coin cost isnt addressed.

    I like the idea of renting hulls and if what I suggested isnt possible it could be a fair substitute. speculatively though, how do you feel about buying one ship for 500 BA?
    I agree with the lowering of the BA costs for boxes.

    Buying one ship for 500 BA isn't bad, but it's predicated on increasing the BA cap, which I don't see happening.
    Does the cap really need to be raised though? Wasn't this what strongboxes were originally going to be for when the black market was first announced? If a 200 BA strongbox had a 40% chance of dropping a ship, then the ship would effectively cost 500 BA on average.
  • LXC
    LXC
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 2,241
    spring nightmare said:
    lower the ba cost yes... increase the coin cost? your fcking bat **** insane dude... at the current amount it costs a pretty good amount of money already if u buy it with coin :p the coin cost is fine (stupid and **** up idea though... i recall the bm was not suppose to have such a thing)... and LXC u didnt reply to my suggestion about the event ships (or event tech in general) :p i for one think my idea for it would work fine for how powerful that **** is
    I'm not going to lie, I'm having a pretty hard time reading your suggestion. If I'm reading this right, you want to separate each hull into 8 pieces, and sell them for 200 (or so) BA each?

    I honestly can't see that idea being very popular. While it would serve our needs pretty well, I think the players might revolt.
  • R4b1dG04t
    R4b1dG04t
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 282
    CM LXC said:
    R4b1dG04t said:

    -snip-
    speculatively though, how do you feel about buying one ship for 500 BA?
    I agree with the lowering of the BA costs for boxes.

    Buying one ship for 500 BA isn't bad, but it's predicated on increasing the BA cap, which I don't see happening.
    I dont either, but it's nice to dream :p

    Any hope of sending this combo idea up the chain? it adds many more possibilities for the creative team to play with too. More, longer reaching

    missions, amber storage units, whatever haha.

    CM LXC said:
    R4b1dG04t said:-snip-
    lower the ba cost yes... increase the coin cost? your fcking bat **** insane dude... at the current amount it costs a pretty good amount of money already if u buy it with coin :p the coin cost is fine (stupid and **** up idea though... i recall the bm was not suppose to have such a thing)... and LXC u didnt reply to my suggestion about the event ships (or event tech in general) :p i for one think my idea for it would work fine for how powerful that **** is

    I recall that too. I'm trying to compromise with what we have though. but as it is now, yeah I think the coin cost compared to the BA is way too low. yes I know what I'm saying, no I havent missed my medication.
  • FusionInferno1
    FusionInferno1
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,729
    CM LXC said:
    spring nightmare said:
    lower the ba cost yes... increase the coin cost? your fcking bat **** insane dude... at the current amount it costs a pretty good amount of money already if u buy it with coin :p the coin cost is fine (stupid and **** up idea though... i recall the bm was not suppose to have such a thing)... and LXC u didnt reply to my suggestion about the event ships (or event tech in general) :p i for one think my idea for it would work fine for how powerful that **** is
    I'm not going to lie, I'm having a pretty hard time reading your suggestion. If I'm reading this right, you want to separate each hull into 8 pieces, and sell them for 200 (or so) BA each?

    I honestly can't see that idea being very popular. While it would serve our needs pretty well, I think the players might revolt.
    not the hull the blueprint :p u manage to get all 8 pieces u own the bp u seem to think 200 ba for an event hull is way to low for how good they are... 200 ba per piece which equals up to 1600 ba and once u get that last piece the bp is yours :p u seemed to have missed the fact that i said all ship bps take 8 pieces to unlock... keyword being bp

    just existing at this point

  • FusionInferno1
    FusionInferno1
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,729
    S9K1 said:
    CM LXC said:
    R4b1dG04t said:

    Regarding the devaluation of players time though, the prices for BA and Coins aren't equitable. (please forgive me rebels) but the coin cost is too low. if players want to coin, fine, but our time should be valued more. a decrease for BA cost for boxes needs to be brought up if the coin cost isnt addressed.

    I like the idea of renting hulls and if what I suggested isnt possible it could be a fair substitute. speculatively though, how do you feel about buying one ship for 500 BA?
    I agree with the lowering of the BA costs for boxes.

    Buying one ship for 500 BA isn't bad, but it's predicated on increasing the BA cap, which I don't see happening.
    Does the cap really need to be raised though? Wasn't this what strongboxes were originally going to be for when the black market was first announced? If a 200 BA strongbox had a 40% chance of dropping a ship, then the ship would effectively cost 500 BA on average.
    the original post was u would gamble i believe it said 20 ba and the example had a genesis cruiser... i think a energy special credit and a apoc (as the jackpot prize) so u would gamble 20 ba open the strong box and if you were super lucky u would win a apocrypha cruiser for 20 ba ( a blank hull)

    just existing at this point

  • R4b1dG04t
    R4b1dG04t
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 282

    I don't want to fixate on the hulls too much. I would like to see t1 or 2 or 3 tech in the BM too. Ship metaphase shields, gemini drivers, literallly anything that we can't get by grinding.

    I don't like the idea of blueprints, especially if it's then offered for coins. That would truly make the game pay to win.
    the idea of the BM was to offer past tech, and that idea has been swept under the rug lately.
    If the BM offers past tech and is then coinable, it would be directly making those items coinable, further devaluing the time spent by the players. If I was able to use BA to get a single ship I would be inclined to use it immediately and i would probably coin the refit to use it. Seeing that previously the upgrades were one use only, I don't see 200 BA being unfair to the players who grinded for the event. They can build 100 where as I would only have 1. Please reconsider that tradeoff LXC.

  • aerosse
    aerosse
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 35
    Don't make me buy a strongbox just to 'hope' it is what I am looking for inside of it.  Place a price on the item (i.e. a T3 core) and place it on the market.  Do not make me buy a T3 strongbox gambling that there is that T3 core in it that I am looking for.  
  • R4b1dG04t
    R4b1dG04t
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 282

    @CM LXC said:
    Hulls in the BM is something I've personally wanted to do for while. I'm not sold on your specific example though. Event tech for 200 BA is ridiculously cheap, if you do that you're massively devaluing the time and money players have spent when doing the event, then building the ship.

    So with the new coin deals, how is it that spending coins for a ship isn't devaluing players time spent gathering blueprints, yet buying one hull from the BM is?

  • Khalixxa
    Khalixxa
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2015 Posts: 454
    Even the unique items from the black market current (resistor equipment) are very boring.

    I'm very surprised that implementing the black market in its current form was considered worth any development time at all.
  • R4b1dG04t
    R4b1dG04t
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 282
    Excuse me @CM LXC did you not say that resistor tech would not be available for coins when they first launch? What the literal **** dude. combined with the ridiculous cost of the core boxes, 100 BA or 60 coins? I guess ea bought kixeye during black friday.
    Kixeye, you should be ashamed of yourself.
  • TEROR CZ
    TEROR CZ
    Greenhorn
    Joined Oct 2015 Posts: 1
    I spent a lot of F..... money for your coins and some of that coins I spent for resistance credit, it cost  god damned 100 coins! incredibly!!!! after I used the resistances on the ships, but after I wanted put the resistance on another ship, but it was Fu...d. That s seriously ****, that I can use this expensive **** just one time, Im very pissed, U should think about it.

  • R4b1dG04t
    R4b1dG04t
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 282

    @CM LXC so now that hulls are introduced into the BM, for coin only, it seems pretty obvious that coins are the priority. Is there anything in the pipes to even the field for those that only use BA?
    That currency feels highly devalued nowadays...

  • PhantomRanger
    PhantomRanger
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2015 Posts: 272
    Kixeye. Oh, sorry. Coineye* is the very definition of pay2win
    that is y the market is so expensive
    image
  • revert1
    revert1
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2016 Posts: 234
    R4b1dG04t said:

    @CM LXC so now that hulls are introduced into the BM, for coin only, it seems pretty obvious that coins are the priority. Is there anything in the pipes to even the field for those that only use BA?
    That currency feels highly devalued nowadays...

    it was so from the start as soon as LXCs lie of  "the black market will be for blood amber only" fell apart, little by little they will remove blood amber, heres hat i predict  tinfoil hat, since the aliens arrive they began scavenging all blood amber as it is their fuel, food, resource what have you. then whoever runs the black market [kixeye] will have some in game msg saying blood amber is no longer accepted since the aliens are in possession of it all

    wow seems all to possible doesnt it...
  • xcvxvx
    xcvxvx
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2014 Posts: 1,111
    First all parts need to be in the labs.  The bp ends then the horror of farming for the crafting parts.  We farm for everything. then can't get to the useful top level and now those are specific to model.  The buying from the shop is more of a loan.  Buying a ship is not cost effective if it disappears.
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