to WrongThinker: Jerichos tactic seems bugged also

AdS_Heisenberg
AdS_Heisenberg
Incursion Leader
Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 1,117
edited 24 Feb 2016, 11:53AM
hi ho WT,

I build Jericho and upgraded his tactic "rapid fire" to level 3 and equipped him with that.

the tactic doesnt seem to work. subjectively he isnt firing any faster, but should have the 500% reload speed increase.

now, I dont have the stats for jericho (maybe you can provide them here).

so I calculated a bit with the hellhound stats (assuming he will be pretty much the same).

for a hellhound the following is true:

clipsize: 3
firerate: 2,667 "projectiles" per sec
reloadtime: 3 secs

so his firing time (to empty the clip) is 1,12 secs.

a firecycle is 4,12 secs (emptying clip + reload).

increasing the reload by 500%, means the new reload would be 0,5 secs instead of 3 secs.

so a firecycle would be 1,62 secs instead of 4,12 secs.

if the numbers for jericho are like the ones from hellhound, he should be shooting 2.5 the number of rockets with "rapid fire" active.

rapid fire holds 7 secs. so that would be 4.3 firecycles or 12,96 projectiles/missiles in 7 secs.

visually it looks like he is firing way less in the time "rapid fire" is active.

could you a) provide the numbers for jericho? and b) check if all works fine with "rapid fire" - it seems to not deliver what it promisses.

thx in advance.

a few more numbers for everyone who might be interested.

"rapid fire" means 150% bonus damage for 7 secs which can be sustained to max 21 secs (3 times "rapid fire" activation" - that equals to about 2.8 mio damage from a promoted jericho alone.

normal hellhounds in range receive the same damage increase. so if you use 8 HH and jericho in a toon you get another bonus of about 4.2 mio damage (if your HH are promoted).

together thats 7 mio bonus damage in 21 secs. which equals to a toon of 14 additional HH. so basically if you use that tactic and if it works properly you will be attacking with a toon thats worth 22 HH and 1 jericho (damage wise, of course you dont have the health of 22 HH, only that of 8).

alltogether (if no HH or jericho dies during those 21 secs) you will be doing about 13 mio damage (modified by damage filters of course, if they still exist). thats a DPS of about 620K or the firepower of 6 sandstorms.
  • MX36
    MX36
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,191
    Interesting Info & research! thank you for sharing that, Heisenberg! :smile: 
    I am still waiting for mine to be built in order to start testing the Fury tactic and reporting back with my opinion. but I was really impressed by this unit's durability compared to the regular HHs and its damage during RL95-Inferno attacks.

    And I expected his powers to go off the charts (theoretically) with his new tactic, but when I read your assessment I started to have doubts and it reminded me of an issue sometimes HHs suffer form. where they don't shoot as smooth as you expect them to do. as if their rockets are stuck when you fire at a target from a certain angle or a certain range which results in a one rocket being fired at a time ( I don't know if this has anything to do with what they've changed in the overkill code back in the hellstorm days or not!).

    I have two questions:
    - Did you take into account his Bloodlust effects on the reload & damage?
    - Did you find the 7 seconds duration sufficient for successfully starting the Fury mode them reselecting the group of HHs and commanding them to march or attack their target?
    P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • covehomer
    covehomer
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 3,268
    Thanks for posting.  It's always best to do a video to illustrate your point.  Sometimes descriptions are not enough and videos will accelerate the evidence needed for Kix to address.
    For those who are curious, Covehomer, refers to the act of a San Francisco Giant hitting a home run over the right field fence and into the SF Bay called McCovey Cove.  
  • AdS_Heisenberg
    AdS_Heisenberg
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 1,117
    edited 24 Feb 2016, 4:44PM
    MX36 said:
    Interesting Info & research! thank you for sharing that, Heisenberg! :smile: 
    I am still waiting for mine to be built in order to start testing the Fury tactic and reporting back with my opinion. but I was really impressed by this unit's durability compared to the regular HHs and its damage during RL95-Inferno attacks.

    And I expected his powers to go off the charts (theoretically) with his new tactic, but when I read your assessment I started to have doubts and it reminded me of an issue sometimes HHs suffer form. where they don't shoot as smooth as you expect them to do. as if their rockets are stuck when you fire at a target from a certain angle or a certain range which results in a one rocket being fired at a time ( I don't know if this has anything to do with what they've changed in the overkill code back in the hellstorm days or not!).

    I have two questions:
    - Did you take into account his Bloodlust effects on the reload & damage?
    - Did you find the 7 seconds duration sufficient for successfully starting the Fury mode them reselecting the group of HHs and commanding them to march or attack their target?
    Nope, didnt account his bloodlust effect.

    WrongThinker, can you supply us with info about jerichos bloodlust effect also?

    you need to decide about targets and get in range before starting the tactic or you will lose precious time on the duration. I would like to see the tactics at longer duration (like 15-20 secs) - in the end they need quite a long time to refill. and 7 secs in an attack is nothing. you **** up targeting or get shot at unexpectedly and your tactics looses a lot of its effect.

    7 secs is a bit to short in my opinion.

    covehomer said:
    Thanks for posting.  It's always best to do a video to illustrate your point.  Sometimes descriptions are not enough and videos will accelerate the evidence needed for Kix to address.
    yeah would have done a video, but have jericho on promotion now - so cant do the video right now. I might coin the promotion partly to be able to make a video and actually count the rockets he fires in a given time frame, to get from an subjective view to an objective view with numbers to compare. will be a day or two though.
  • MX36
    MX36
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,191
     would like to see the tactics at longer duration (like 15-20 secs) - in the end they need quite a long time to refill. and 7 secs in an attack is nothing. you **** up targeting or get shot at unexpectedly and your tactics looses a lot of its effect.

    7 secs is a bit to short in my opinion.
    That's what I thought, too!  10-15 seconds would be better considering the wasted time. or they could give us the ability to activate his tactic while he's selected with his HHs group instead of clicking on him alone. what do you think?
    P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • WrongThinker
    WrongThinker
    BP Game Team
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,651
    While the duration is short, the effect should be pretty **** huge and noticeable.  I would definitely love to see a video, this thing was crazy in our internal testing (but super-satisfying, especially at max level).

    To your question: Jericho's Bloodlust works exactly like the standard HH Bloodlust, in that he gets additional Reload Speed for everything he kills up to a cap.
    Lead Designer - Battle Pirates
    KIXEYE
  • MX36
    MX36
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,191
    To your question: Jericho's Bloodlust works exactly like the standard HH Bloodlust, in that he gets additional Reload Speed for everything he kills up to a cap.
    While HHs Bloodlust is even more noticeable than Kara's, their cap & reload speed boost per kill are still a mystery. 
    P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • WrongThinker
    WrongThinker
    BP Game Team
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,651
    MX36 said:
    To your question: Jericho's Bloodlust works exactly like the standard HH Bloodlust, in that he gets additional Reload Speed for everything he kills up to a cap.
    While HHs Bloodlust is even more noticeable than Kara's, their cap & reload speed boost per kill are still a mystery. 
    It grants a 10% increase in Reload Speed per kill, up to a max of 10 stacks.  :)
    Lead Designer - Battle Pirates
    KIXEYE
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 8,259
    MX36 said:
    To your question: Jericho's Bloodlust works exactly like the standard HH Bloodlust, in that he gets additional Reload Speed for everything he kills up to a cap.
    While HHs Bloodlust is even more noticeable than Kara's, their cap & reload speed boost per kill are still a mystery. 
    It grants a 10% increase in Reload Speed per kill, up to a max of 10 stacks.  :)
    Just to confirm them, so at max level the Hellhound reload speed is effectively halved right?
    So if it took 2 seconds to reload before, it would take 1 second afterwards, correct?
    Me on my day's off...
    Thane_Mantis
  • James Griffy
    James Griffy
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2010 Posts: 465
    covehomer said:
    Thanks for posting.  It's always best to do a video to illustrate your point.  Sometimes descriptions are not enough and videos will accelerate the evidence needed for Kix to address.
    yup u have to lead them to water and show them how to drink it as well  

  • WrongThinker
    WrongThinker
    BP Game Team
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,651
    MX36 said:
    To your question: Jericho's Bloodlust works exactly like the standard HH Bloodlust, in that he gets additional Reload Speed for everything he kills up to a cap.
    While HHs Bloodlust is even more noticeable than Kara's, their cap & reload speed boost per kill are still a mystery. 
    It grants a 10% increase in Reload Speed per kill, up to a max of 10 stacks.  :)
    Just to confirm them, so at max level the Hellhound reload speed is effectively halved right?
    So if it took 2 seconds to reload before, it would take 1 second afterwards, correct?
    That is correct.  Twice the reload speed means half the reload time!
    Lead Designer - Battle Pirates
    KIXEYE
  • AdS_Heisenberg
    AdS_Heisenberg
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 1,117
    edited 25 Feb 2016, 12:02PM
    MX36 said:
    To your question: Jericho's Bloodlust works exactly like the standard HH Bloodlust, in that he gets additional Reload Speed for everything he kills up to a cap.
    While HHs Bloodlust is even more noticeable than Kara's, their cap & reload speed boost per kill are still a mystery. 
    It grants a 10% increase in Reload Speed per kill, up to a max of 10 stacks.  :)
    Just to confirm them, so at max level the Hellhound reload speed is effectively halved right?
    So if it took 2 seconds to reload before, it would take 1 second afterwards, correct?
    That is correct.  Twice the reload speed means half the reload time!
    to add a more beefy number to that, it should be around 30% dps increase with maxed bloodlust.

    care to post the Jericho stats here WrongThinker?

    Ill do a video when my Jericho is promoted in about 2 days. but unpromoted at 20 activating the tatctic seemed to do just about nothing. subjectively. have to video it and do a test with and without his tactic. sometimes the eye can be deceived ... in WC though it has mostly been a bug rather than my eyes being deceived though ;-)

    as I am on it:




    in this pic the plattform with the x is being attacked by one preserver and a lead preserver. the preserver has the M4GX launcher. he hits the 5 damaged plattforms with the M4GX.

    can you explain to me why the circled plattform doesnt get splash damage, though all the other do around the attacked plattform do? seems odd doesnt it?


    and another odd splash behaviour:



    the jackal started attacking the plattform with the "0" - all turrets were at 100% health at that point, still he destroyed the plattform behind (!) it (the one with the "x") first. again we can see the upper left plattform in the splash area didnt get any damage, while the one in the upper right corner gets way more damage.

    all plattforms have the same level.

    ummm wow, its getting better the more often I try it ... now look at this:



    all plattforms were at 100% when I started hitting the "0" labeled plattform with the jackal. all surrounded plattforms were destroyed before the one he was actually aiming at ... umm ok, something is really off there ....

    Jackal has: heavy ordnance, corrosive coating, choked barrels - all at 6.

    Is there any chance factors in how damage is applied, WrongThinker? I mean getting different outcomes for the same thing seems really odd now ...

    Ill do a video once my test base is repaired again.
  • MX36
    MX36
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,191
    to add a more beefy number to that, it should be around 30% dps increase with maxed bloodlust.
    Are you sure about the number? mine showed a higher percentage!  :|
    P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • AdS_Heisenberg
    AdS_Heisenberg
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 1,117
    MX36 said:
    to add a more beefy number to that, it should be around 30% dps increase with maxed bloodlust.
    Are you sure about the number? mine showed a higher percentage!  :|
    your right, just devided the 500% number jericho gets by 5 - that was wrong.

    correct number is 57.15% damage increase for full bloodlust (100% reaload speed increase).
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