I can see how you get 9 bullets (0.35 seconds reload time x3) is close to 1 second, so your conclusion is 3 clips per second and a total of 9 bullets per seconds. But the speed of firing depends on the rate of fire per second, The higher the rate, the faster the firing. I don't see the 20 in the calculation?
It's not 9 it's 6. WT already liked my post where I pointed it out. 20 in the calculation works out to 1 round/bullet/projectile every .05 seconds
Engage target. .05 seconds elapse fire one round, another .05 seconds elapse fire second round, .05 seconds elaspe fire third round. .35 seconds of reload, .05 seconds elapse fire fourth round, .05 seconds elapse fire fifth round, .05 seconds elaspe fire sixth round. .35 seconds of reload. And your 1 second is done. 6 rounds fired which works out to exactly 5694 DPS based on WT's DPR on Operators.
Daisy's! I'm pushing up Daisy's! Cause everyone loves Daisy's! Everything is perfect in this game and I love Daisy's
Maybe the techs should not be rushed out the door so fast then.... We spend alot of time & resources upgrading and equipping these.
Two things to this: first, we already are doing better about this IMO. Secondly, I do have the personal intention of ensuring your tech has value. When content slows down a bit (which, again, is planned for the not-too-distant future), we'll be looking at some of the older SF tech and making sure it delivers a value. I still think there are places where bandolier has value (and it has a different trade-off, which can make it more valuable in some situations).
I can see how you get 9 bullets (0.35 seconds reload time x3) is close to 1 second, so your conclusion is 3 clips per second and a total of 9 bullets per seconds. But the speed of firing depends on the rate of fire per second, The higher the rate, the faster the firing. I don't see the 20 in the calculation?
It's not 9 it's 6. WT already liked my post where I pointed it out. 20 in the calculation works out to 1 round/bullet/projectile every .05 seconds
Engage target. .05 seconds elapse fire one round, another .05 seconds elapse fire second round, .05 seconds elaspe fire third round. .35 seconds of reload, .05 seconds elapse fire fourth round, .05 seconds elapse fire fifth round, .05 seconds elaspe fire sixth round. .35 seconds of reload. And your 1 second is done. 6 rounds fired which works out to exactly 5694 DPS based on WT's DPR on Operators.
Yeah, for what it's worth, DPS can actually be slightly misleading. For example, let's say I told you two units fired at each other simultaneously and both had a DPS of 100 and health of 1000. You might assume that they would take each other out at the same exact moment. However, if the first unit fired 1 bullet that dealt 1000 damage every 10 seconds and the other fired 1 bullet that did 100 damage every second, the second unit would lose every time, despite having the same DPS.
Another thing to consider is to that the first projectile is technically fired at time-0. So, in the above example, the first bullet would be fired at 0, the second would be fired at 0.05, and the third at 0.10. Then reload, which brings us to 0.45, at which time the next bullet would be fired. Then another at 0.5 and another at 0.55. Then again we have a 0.35 second delay which brings us to 0.9. At 0.9 the first bullet is fired of the third clip, with the final bullet fired at exactly 1 second. So, because of "firing at 0" the first second has slightly higher damage than the subsequent seconds (and 9 bullets are fired over the first second).
Maybe the techs should not be rushed out the door so fast then.... We spend alot of time & resources upgrading and equipping these.
Two things to this: first, we already are doing better about this IMO. Secondly, I do have the personal intention of ensuring your tech has value. When content slows down a bit (which, again, is planned for the not-too-distant future), we'll be looking at some of the older SF tech and making sure it delivers a value. I still think there are places where bandolier has value (and it has a different trade-off, which can make it more valuable in some situations).
I can see how you get 9 bullets (0.35 seconds reload time x3) is close to 1 second, so your conclusion is 3 clips per second and a total of 9 bullets per seconds. But the speed of firing depends on the rate of fire per second, The higher the rate, the faster the firing. I don't see the 20 in the calculation?
It's not 9 it's 6. WT already liked my post where I pointed it out. 20 in the calculation works out to 1 round/bullet/projectile every .05 seconds
Engage target. .05 seconds elapse fire one round, another .05 seconds elapse fire second round, .05 seconds elaspe fire third round. .35 seconds of reload, .05 seconds elapse fire fourth round, .05 seconds elapse fire fifth round, .05 seconds elaspe fire sixth round. .35 seconds of reload. And your 1 second is done. 6 rounds fired which works out to exactly 5694 DPS based on WT's DPR on Operators.
Yeah, for what it's worth, DPS can actually be slightly misleading. For example, let's say I told you two units fired at each other simultaneously and both had a DPS of 100 and health of 1000. You might assume that they would take each other out at the same exact moment. However, if the first unit fired 1 bullet that dealt 1000 damage every 10 seconds and the other fired 1 bullet that did 100 damage every second, the second unit would lose every time, despite having the same DPS.
Another thing to consider is to that the first projectile is technically fired at time-0. So, in the above example, the first bullet would be fired at 0, the second would be fired at 0.05, and the third at 0.10. Then reload, which brings us to 0.45, at which time the next bullet would be fired. Then another at 0.5 and another at 0.55. Then again we have a 0.35 second delay which brings us to 0.9. At 0.9 the first bullet is fired of the third clip, with the final bullet fired at exactly 1 second. So, because of "firing at 0" the first second has slightly higher damage than the subsequent seconds (and 9 bullets are fired over the first second).
Sorry WT thinker but your math doesn't add up then. If an operator gets off 9 bullets per second and the DPR is 949 why isn't the DPS on operators 8541? The listed max DPS for Operators is 5694 which is equal to 6x949.
My example works within the confines of the numbers you've given us. Yours doesn't. So what's wrong on Operators? DPR or DPS if they are truly getting 9 shots off per second?
Daisy's! I'm pushing up Daisy's! Cause everyone loves Daisy's! Everything is perfect in this game and I love Daisy's
To clarify, if you look at a DPS over something like 10,000 seconds, everything averages out properly (and, as far as I can tell, equals your math). However, because units fire as soon as something is in range, the first second kind of breaks the curve a bit.
For example, if the warhorse fires 1 round per second and each round does 1000 damage, you'd think that it does 1000 damage in it's first second. However, it fires at 0 seconds AND at 1 second, so, technically, it does 2000 damage in it's first second. That's one of the reasons that this additional information is (hopefully) so useful, it helps you account for things like this.
To clarify, if you look at a DPS over something like 10,000 seconds, everything averages out properly (and, as far as I can tell, equals your math). However, because units fire as soon as something is in range, the first second kind of breaks the curve a bit.
For example, if the warhorse fires 1 round per second and each round does 1000 damage, you'd think that it does 1000 damage in it's first second. However, it fires at 0 seconds AND at 1 second, so, technically, it does 2000 damage in it's first second. That's one of the reasons that this additional information is (hopefully) so useful, it helps you account for things like this.
if i put Go Commando ( Increased movement speed) on lead SF or in my case i put preserver in front of the lead, will it affect all the SF on his team or will he be walking much faster than his whole team?
my head hurts......... i remember the good old days when i didnt have to be a mathematician to play a war game, it used to be so simple..... tank kills rifleman.... air kills tank.... AA kills air..... real war strategy..... and yeah, before someone says "ah but ballistics", i know 7.62mm does more damage than 5.56mm which does more damage than 9mm, etc etc. But now seemingly, i have to be able to think about several things at once, use a calculator, press buttons, deal with a 5 sec lag anytime i try to do anything, and still try to keep my spirits up? Well, my spirits are steadily dwindling......
Why would anyone try to figure out Kixeye Math? We have been trying for years to figure it out. It never adds up. There are hidden parts of the formula!!!!!!!!
So this is some great ****. Now how about throwing in the PH/PK factors for each unit, by range too please. Oh and also, how about adjusting the priority of fire. It pisses me off when I see the banshees firing at the cryo turret and the aa plasma turret is engaging it. So if the anti-air is engaging the air, why doesn't the air engage those first instead of the Mega Tanks. Just an observation.
To clarify, if you look at a DPS over something like 10,000 seconds, everything averages out properly (and, as far as I can tell, equals your math). However, because units fire as soon as something is in range, the first second kind of breaks the curve a bit.
For example, if the warhorse fires 1 round per second and each round does 1000 damage, you'd think that it does 1000 damage in it's first second. However, it fires at 0 seconds AND at 1 second, so, technically, it does 2000 damage in it's first second. That's one of the reasons that this additional information is (hopefully) so useful, it helps you account for things like this.
This is a nice thing to know.
This is a great example of why things don't always add up at first glance. And alos are not always easy to test yourself. Observation can only tell us so much which is why I'm always cautioning player that there are often hidden factors that can effect your results.
If you don't know the exact manner in which something was programmed then you have to do a lot of separate tests with each one changing a different variable in order to get an accurate picture of what is happening. And you need to understand that before so you know exactly what your results mean.
Unfortunately you can always know what the variables are which makes testing even harder. If you miss a variable then your not seeing a complete result which can lead you to wrongly conclude that you understand what the software is doing.
I've been doing land mine damage testing on vXP Units and so far have discovered that
Shape Charge's have a baseline damage of 40% of the units Full Health at their current Rank.
Bouncing Betty's have a baseline damage of 30% of the units Full Health
Claymore's have a baseline damage of 20% of the units Full Health
Flatiron's have a baseline damage of 10% of the units Full Health
IED's - I didn't test these but if I had to guess I would say 5%.
These are baseline numbers meaning some units may have Resistance ( Flat or Percentage ) or Vulnerability to Land Mines which will effect these percentages.
Nightmares & Warhorses have a 60% Resistance to Land Mines so they only sustain damage in the amount of 16% of their Full Health from Shape Charges and so forth down the line adjusting for each baseline.
Preservers have a 100 Flat Armor Resistance to Land Mines so they damage equaling 40% of their Full Health minus 100.
.HOWEVER, I can't say that these baselines are true for every Unit because I can only test vXP units and clearly there are variables that effect these results otherwise EVERY unit would require 3 Shape charges to be destroyed and we all know this is NOT true.
I however can only speculate at what these variables may be
Do different units like Rifleman and Mega Tanks simply have different Baselines than the vXP units ?
Do they have the same Baseline but different Resistances or Vulnerabilities - Why does a Rifleman die from 1 Shape Charge and a BFG survive more than 3. No mention of the BFG being resistant to Land Mines has ever been stated as far as I know.
Is there a Minimum & Maximum damage from each mine level? - So if the units health is lower than the minimum damage of a Shape Charge like 1,280 for a Rifleman then the mine does 100% damage. Or if the health of the unit is high enough that 40% damage is to high then it caps it?
This does not appear to be the case on the high end for the vXP units because the I tested a Rank 14 Lead Heavy Operatorwhich has greater health than the max level BFG and the damage was not capped. The LHO sustained damage equal to 40% of its 353,000 health ( 141,200 Damage ) from 1 shape charge. The a level 16 BFG ( since it was "fixed" ) does not receive 134,400 damage ( 40% of 336,000 ) from one SC.
So for Land Mines at least I'm stuck because I can't even do accurate tests on most units to even try and discover what the variables even are.
MY LONG WINDED POINT
Before you complain about something be sure you understand what is actually happening because A LOT of times the one complaining is ranting about what they think they see happening when in reality it's just a misconception from anecdotal observations that makes them complain.
PS - WrongThinker, since I brought it up could you help clarify the way the software handles Land Mine damage?
Plus if it would be cool with you to help out with the wiki maybe we could communicate on Skype for technical questions. I do this with CM Sulaco but I have a feeling for some questions he would have pass them along to you or your team anyways. If this is something that works for you then you can get my info from Kevin.
As many of you know, our current unit information screen really isn't adequate. You asked for some of that hidden info to be revealed to help you make the best decisions, both for components and general strategy. Hopefully we'll get some bandwidth to improve that screen in the future, but until then, here is some of the critical unit data you've been missing. For the time being, I'm keeping this info to Core Units at level 20, because to do it for all units at all levels in the game would take me until 2018.
HEAVY OPERATOR
Damage Per Projectile: 720
Clip Size: 6
Fire Rate: 40 / Second
Reload: 0.35 Seconds
LEAD HEAVY OPERATOR
Damage Per Projectile: 1440
Clip Size: 6
Fire Rate: 40 / Second
Reload: 0.35 Seconds
These guys are caring a Fraking Gatling Gun Clip size is too small and the fire rate in totally wrong.
Ok the clip size for these weapon systems are belt feed which means it is a hell of a lot higher than 6. You might to need increase the clip size by 10,000.
The weapon that I think you are modeling for the Heavy Operator is the XM214 Microgun fire rate is between 400 to 10,000 rounds per min. So a little math on the low end per barrel 6.7rps (rounds per second) on the high end 168rps the high end. I think 50 to 60 rps.
Now to the Lead Heavy Operator the weapon I think you are modeling after is the M134 Minigun Low end per barrel 33.3rps High end per barrel 100rps This one again I would say 50 to 60 rps is correct.
When it comes to weapons of any kind I can find and smoke you out on it Wrong.
when I finnaly got the Archangel to level 10 and customized it before I produced it , when I tried to produce it at the airfield i got this mesasge, and I am angry as hell
if i put Go Commando ( Increased movement speed) on lead SF or in my case i put preserver in front of the lead, will it affect all the SF on his team or will he be walking much faster than his whole team?
Actually, I think this is a great question. The way movement speed works in a SF Team is that it averages the speed of each unit in the squad and then all move at that speed. So, if you put Go Commander on one unit (regardless of whether they're the Lead or a Member), they'll all benefit a little, but you'll see a much better result if you put it on all of them.
The reason we did it this way is it helps keep your Team grouped up. If everyone was moving at different speeds the Squads would spread out and we wanted you to be able to mix and match.
Why would anyone try to figure out Kixeye Math? We have been trying for years to figure it out. It never adds up. There are hidden parts of the formula!!!!!!!!
That's what I am trying to fix. The whole point of exposing information like this is so that there is less hidden math!
So this is some great ****. Now how about throwing in the PH/PK factors for each unit, by range too please. Oh and also, how about adjusting the priority of fire. It pisses me off when I see the banshees firing at the cryo turret and the aa plasma turret is engaging it. So if the anti-air is engaging the air, why doesn't the air engage those first instead of the Mega Tanks. Just an observation.
Glad you like! If you'll forgive me a derp moment, can you clarify "PH/PK"?
As to the prioritizing, I agree with you completely, but our AI is handled in such a way that may not be as easy a fix. It's a good point, though, this has been a pain for me as well.
These guys are caring a Fraking Gatling Gun Clip size is too small and the fire rate in totally wrong.
Ok the clip size for these weapon systems are belt feed which means it is a hell of a lot higher than 6. You might to need increase the clip size by 10,000.
The weapon that I think you are modeling for the Heavy Operator is the XM214 Microgun fire rate is between 400 to 10,000 rounds per min. So a little math on the low end per barrel 6.7rps (rounds per second) on the high end 168rps the high end. I think 50 to 60 rps.
Now to the Lead Heavy Operator the weapon I think you are modeling after is the M134 Minigun Low end per barrel 33.3rps High end per barrel 100rps This one again I would say 50 to 60 rps is correct.
When it comes to weapons of any kind I can find and smoke you out on it Wrong.
I have 0 doubts that you're correct about this. It definitely seems weird that this is how these units currently fire. I know when these were released, burst-fire was the new hotness and was thrown on many units (regardless of whether or not it was appropriate). We may update these units in the future to be a little more authentic, there certainly would be advantages to it.
if i put Go Commando ( Increased movement speed) on lead SF or in my case i put preserver in front of the lead, will it affect all the SF on his team or will he be walking much faster than his whole team?
Actually, I think this is a great question. The way movement speed works in a SF Team is that it averages the speed of each unit in the squad and then all move at that speed. So, if you put Go Commander on one unit (regardless of whether they're the Lead or a Member), they'll all benefit a little, but you'll see a much better result if you put it on all of them.
The reason we did it this way is it helps keep your Team grouped up. If everyone was moving at different speeds the Squads would spread out and we wanted you to be able to mix and match.
Why would anyone try to figure out Kixeye Math? We have been trying for years to figure it out. It never adds up. There are hidden parts of the formula!!!!!!!!
That's what I am trying to fix. The whole point of exposing information like this is so that there is less hidden math!
So this is some great ****. Now how about throwing in the PH/PK factors for each unit, by range too please. Oh and also, how about adjusting the priority of fire. It pisses me off when I see the banshees firing at the cryo turret and the aa plasma turret is engaging it. So if the anti-air is engaging the air, why doesn't the air engage those first instead of the Mega Tanks. Just an observation.
Glad you like! If you'll forgive me a derp moment, can you clarify "PH/PK"?
As to the prioritizing, I agree with you completely, but our AI is handled in such a way that may not be as easy a fix. It's a good point, though, this has been a pain for me as well.
These guys are caring a Fraking Gatling Gun Clip size is too small and the fire rate in totally wrong.
Ok the clip size for these weapon systems are belt feed which means it is a hell of a lot higher than 6. You might to need increase the clip size by 10,000.
The weapon that I think you are modeling for the Heavy Operator is the XM214 Microgun fire rate is between 400 to 10,000 rounds per min. So a little math on the low end per barrel 6.7rps (rounds per second) on the high end 168rps the high end. I think 50 to 60 rps.
Now to the Lead Heavy Operator the weapon I think you are modeling after is the M134 Minigun Low end per barrel 33.3rps High end per barrel 100rps This one again I would say 50 to 60 rps is correct.
When it comes to weapons of any kind I can find and smoke you out on it Wrong.
I have 0 doubts that you're correct about this. It definitely seems weird that this is how these units currently fire. I know when these were released, burst-fire was the new hotness and was thrown on many units (regardless of whether or not it was appropriate). We may update these units in the future to be a little more authentic, there certainly would be advantages to it.
Please be careful about that WT if you increase the ROF to those levels you would need to decrease the DPP (DPR) to a level where they would no longer damage Preservers.
It may be too late to change dynamics such as this. Unless you change the 'skin' on Heavy Ops and then reuse the skin on a new unit reflective of these new stats suggested I think you will do more harm than good.
Daisy's! I'm pushing up Daisy's! Cause everyone loves Daisy's! Everything is perfect in this game and I love Daisy's
if i put Go Commando ( Increased movement speed) on lead SF or in my case i put preserver in front of the lead, will it affect all the SF on his team or will he be walking much faster than his whole team?
Actually, I think this is a great question. The way movement speed works in a SF Team is that it averages the speed of each unit in the squad and then all move at that speed. So, if you put Go Commander on one unit (regardless of whether they're the Lead or a Member), they'll all benefit a little, but you'll see a much better result if you put it on all of them.
The reason we did it this way is it helps keep your Team grouped up. If everyone was moving at different speeds the Squads would spread out and we wanted you to be able to mix and match.
This kind of info makes me giddy, lol.
I will add this to the Fireteam page if I ever get around to making it ...
if i put Go Commando ( Increased movement speed) on lead SF or in my case i put preserver in front of the lead, will it affect all the SF on his team or will he be walking much faster than his whole team?
Actually, I think this is a great question. The way movement speed works in a SF Team is that it averages the speed of each unit in the squad and then all move at that speed. So, if you put Go Commander on one unit (regardless of whether they're the Lead or a Member), they'll all benefit a little, but you'll see a much better result if you put it on all of them.
The reason we did it this way is it helps keep your Team grouped up. If everyone was moving at different speeds the Squads would spread out and we wanted you to be able to mix and match.
This kind of info makes me giddy, lol.
I will add this to the Fireteam page if I ever get around to making it ...
I would not add anything until they fix the crap that is broken right now
if i put Go Commando ( Increased movement speed) on lead SF or in my case i put preserver in front of the lead, will it affect all the SF on his team or will he be walking much faster than his whole team?
Actually, I think this is a great question. The way movement speed works in a SF Team is that it averages the speed of each unit in the squad and then all move at that speed. So, if you put Go Commander on one unit (regardless of whether they're the Lead or a Member), they'll all benefit a little, but you'll see a much better result if you put it on all of them.
The reason we did it this way is it helps keep your Team grouped up. If everyone was moving at different speeds the Squads would spread out and we wanted you to be able to mix and match.
This kind of info makes me giddy, lol.
I will add this to the Fireteam page if I ever get around to making it ...
I would not add anything until they fix the crap that is broken right now
Don't see the connection. Are you saying I should hold the info hostage? Fix the game or the info will never see the light of day!
I don't care on the wiki about bugs or problems in the game ( I do as a player but that's not the same ) I just document things. Its just a aggregation of information.
aggregation of information ... funny .... I'm in a strange mood today.. I think I need more sleep..
UPDATE #3 Changed Damage Per Projectile (DPP) to Damage Per Round (DPR), because everyone liked that more. Added information on Sheila's and Kara's hero effects.
if i put Go Commando ( Increased movement speed) on lead SF or in my case i put preserver in front of the lead, will it affect all the SF on his team or will he be walking much faster than his whole team?
Actually, I think this is a great question. The way movement speed works in a SF Team is that it averages the speed of each unit in the squad and then all move at that speed. So, if you put Go Commander on one unit (regardless of whether they're the Lead or a Member), they'll all benefit a little, but you'll see a much better result if you put it on all of them.
The reason we did it this way is it helps keep your Team grouped up. If everyone was moving at different speeds the Squads would spread out and we wanted you to be able to mix and match.
This kind of info makes me giddy, lol.
I will add this to the Fireteam page if I ever get around to making it ...
I would not add anything until they fix the crap that is broken right now
Don't see the connection. Are you saying I should hold the info hostage? Fix the game or the info will never see the light of day!
I don't care on the wiki about bugs or problems in the game ( I do as a player but that's not the same ) I just document things. Its just a aggregation of information.
aggregation of information ... funny .... I'm in a strange mood today.. I think I need more sleep..
What I'm saying is wait until everything is fixed what we have said to WrongThinker and such. But if you do release it make a caveat in saying it is not fully complete yet.
Wrongthinker, can you please add the new Jackal unit stats.
This is great info!
Tech Components:
Compressed Mag: is great for units that have long reload times, but that 10% extra damage drawback really sucks. I was thinking of equipping my Hellhounds with this tech as they have a 3 second reload time, but they are already such fragile units.{EDIT I forgot about the HH's having bloodlust that reduces reload time, can you please explain how much?} Any plans to release some kind of light armor for the hellhounds and Jackal? (with mine proof tires!!!) That might help. Or any chance the 10% damage drawback will be removed?
Explosive Ordnance: Another cool tech, but 5% range decrease kills it. This drops your 500 ranged units down to 475....
Does the new Grenade launcher component have a drawback?
Wrongthinker, can you please add the new Jackal unit stats.
This is great info!
Tech Components:
Compressed Mag: is great for units that have long reload times, but that 10% extra damage drawback really sucks. I was thinking of equipping my Hellhounds with this tech as they have a 3 second reload time, but they are already such fragile units.{EDIT I forgot about the HH's having bloodlust that reduces reload time, can you please explain how much?} Any plans to release some kind of light armor for the hellhounds and Jackal? (with mine proof tires!!!) That might help. Or any chance the 10% damage drawback will be removed?
Explosive Ordnance: Another cool tech, but 5% range decrease kills it. This drops your 500 ranged units down to 475....
Does the new Grenade launcher component have a drawback?
1.) I will add the Jackal stats next week at some point. 2.) I'm sorry, but for the time being, there is no plan to change Compressed Mag's trade-off. 3.) Same for Explosive Ord. I know the 5% range is pretty rough (though far less relevant on some units than others). 4.) I will investigate the Hellhound's BL next week. I admit that I am currently not sure if it is the same value's as Kara's or if it is entirely different. 5.) The M4GX has no trade-offs, but is restricted to infantry units (it is a Utility - Gear component). The thing is pretty beastly.
So I thought spending a week or so upgrading tech to Lvl 6 was kind of long, now it costs 60 million to upgrade SF tech? I cant even hold 20 million Thor yet, and wow thats alot of Thor!!!
Its currently 4-8-12-16-20 million thor per lvl, I think it should be half that.
5 Second upgrades are nice, but this is just CRAZY...
So I thought spending a week or so upgrading tech to Lvl 6 was kind of long, now it costs 60 million to upgrade SF tech? I cant even hold 20 million Thor yet, and wow thats alot of Thor!!!
Its currently 4-8-12-16-20 million thor per lvl, I think it should be half that.
5 Second upgrades are nice, but this is just CRAZY...
We'll definitely be watching these numbers. Do you mind if I ask how much Thorium you can currently store?
@Wrongthinker I have experienced some problems about the understanding of Bloodlust. I think that this must be clarified, because this affects the reload speed, and thus, the damage output
YOU WILL NEVER GET ME!
What makes you doubt life comes when you feel you will never doubt your life again.
Engage target. .05 seconds elapse fire one round, another .05 seconds elapse fire second round, .05 seconds elaspe fire third round. .35 seconds of reload, .05 seconds elapse fire fourth round, .05 seconds elapse fire fifth round, .05 seconds elaspe fire sixth round. .35 seconds of reload. And your 1 second is done. 6 rounds fired which works out to exactly 5694 DPS based on WT's DPR on Operators.
Yeah, for what it's worth, DPS can actually be slightly misleading. For example, let's say I told you two units fired at each other simultaneously and both had a DPS of 100 and health of 1000. You might assume that they would take each other out at the same exact moment. However, if the first unit fired 1 bullet that dealt 1000 damage every 10 seconds and the other fired 1 bullet that did 100 damage every second, the second unit would lose every time, despite having the same DPS.
Another thing to consider is to that the first projectile is technically fired at time-0. So, in the above example, the first bullet would be fired at 0, the second would be fired at 0.05, and the third at 0.10. Then reload, which brings us to 0.45, at which time the next bullet would be fired. Then another at 0.5 and another at 0.55. Then again we have a 0.35 second delay which brings us to 0.9. At 0.9 the first bullet is fired of the third clip, with the final bullet fired at exactly 1 second. So, because of "firing at 0" the first second has slightly higher damage than the subsequent seconds (and 9 bullets are fired over the first second).
My example works within the confines of the numbers you've given us. Yours doesn't. So what's wrong on Operators? DPR or DPS if they are truly getting 9 shots off per second?
For example, if the warhorse fires 1 round per second and each round does 1000 damage, you'd think that it does 1000 damage in it's first second. However, it fires at 0 seconds AND at 1 second, so, technically, it does 2000 damage in it's first second. That's one of the reasons that this additional information is (hopefully) so useful, it helps you account for things like this.
these info Really help us very well ,
if i put Go Commando ( Increased movement speed) on lead SF or in my case i put preserver in front of the lead, will it affect all the SF on his team or will he be walking much faster than his whole team?
and yeah, before someone says "ah but ballistics", i know 7.62mm does more damage than 5.56mm which does more damage than 9mm, etc etc.
But now seemingly, i have to be able to think about several things at once, use a calculator, press buttons, deal with a 5 sec lag anytime i try to do anything, and still try to keep my spirits up?
Well, my spirits are steadily dwindling......
We have been trying for years to figure it out.
It never adds up.
There are hidden parts of the formula!!!!!!!!
This is a great example of why things don't always add up at first glance. And alos are not always easy to test yourself. Observation can only tell us so much which is why I'm always cautioning player that there are often hidden factors that can effect your results.
If you don't know the exact manner in which something was programmed then you have to do a lot of separate tests with each one changing a different variable in order to get an accurate picture of what is happening. And you need to understand that before so you know exactly what your results mean.
Unfortunately you can always know what the variables are which makes testing even harder. If you miss a variable then your not seeing a complete result which can lead you to wrongly conclude that you understand what the software is doing.
FOR INSTANCE...
Land Mine Damage ( wiki page is coming soon )
- These are baseline numbers meaning some units may have Resistance ( Flat or Percentage ) or Vulnerability to Land Mines which will effect these percentages.
- Nightmares & Warhorses have a 60% Resistance to Land Mines so they only sustain damage in the amount of 16% of their Full Health from Shape Charges and so forth down the line adjusting for each baseline.
- Preservers have a 100 Flat Armor Resistance to Land Mines so they damage equaling 40% of their Full Health minus 100.
.HOWEVER, I can't say that these baselines are true for every Unit because I can only test vXP units and clearly there are variables that effect these results otherwise EVERY unit would require 3 Shape charges to be destroyed and we all know this is NOT true.I however can only speculate at what these variables may be
- Is there a Minimum & Maximum damage from each mine level? - So if the units health is lower than the minimum damage of a Shape Charge like 1,280 for a Rifleman then the mine does 100% damage. Or if the health of the unit is high enough that 40% damage is to high then it caps it?
- This does not appear to be the case on the high end for the vXP units because the I tested a Rank 14 Lead Heavy Operator which has greater health than the max level BFG and the damage was not capped. The LHO sustained damage equal to 40% of its 353,000 health ( 141,200 Damage ) from 1 shape charge. The a level 16 BFG ( since it was "fixed" ) does not receive 134,400 damage ( 40% of 336,000 ) from one SC.
So for Land Mines at least I'm stuck because I can't even do accurate tests on most units to even try and discover what the variables even are.MY LONG WINDED POINT
Before you complain about something be sure you understand what is actually happening because A LOT of times the one complaining is ranting about what they think they see happening when in reality it's just a misconception from anecdotal observations that makes them complain.
PS - WrongThinker, since I brought it up could you help clarify the way the software handles Land Mine damage?
Plus if it would be cool with you to help out with the wiki maybe we could communicate on Skype for technical questions. I do this with CM Sulaco but I have a feeling for some questions he would have pass them along to you or your team anyways. If this is something that works for you then you can get my info from Kevin.
WAR COMMANDER WIKIA
Lead AdministratorOk the clip size for these weapon systems are belt feed which means it is a hell of a lot higher than 6. You might to need increase the clip size by 10,000.
The weapon that I think you are modeling for the Heavy Operator is the XM214 Microgun fire rate is between 400 to 10,000 rounds per min. So a little math on the low end per barrel 6.7rps (rounds per second) on the high end 168rps the high end. I think 50 to 60 rps.
Now to the Lead Heavy Operator
the weapon I think you are modeling after is the M134 Minigun
Low end per barrel 33.3rps
High end per barrel 100rps
This one again I would say 50 to 60 rps is correct.
When it comes to weapons of any kind I can find and smoke you out on it Wrong.
The reason we did it this way is it helps keep your Team grouped up. If everyone was moving at different speeds the Squads would spread out and we wanted you to be able to mix and match.
That's what I am trying to fix. The whole point of exposing information like this is so that there is less hidden math!
Glad you like! If you'll forgive me a derp moment, can you clarify "PH/PK"?
As to the prioritizing, I agree with you completely, but our AI is handled in such a way that may not be as easy a fix. It's a good point, though, this has been a pain for me as well.
I have 0 doubts that you're correct about this. It definitely seems weird that this is how these units currently fire. I know when these were released, burst-fire was the new hotness and was thrown on many units (regardless of whether or not it was appropriate). We may update these units in the future to be a little more authentic, there certainly would be advantages to it.
It may be too late to change dynamics such as this. Unless you change the 'skin' on Heavy Ops and then reuse the skin on a new unit reflective of these new stats suggested I think you will do more harm than good.
I will add this to the Fireteam page if I ever get around to making it ...
WAR COMMANDER WIKIA
Lead AdministratorI don't care on the wiki about bugs or problems in the game ( I do as a player but that's not the same ) I just document things. Its just a aggregation of information.
aggregation of information ... funny .... I'm in a strange mood today.. I think I need more sleep..
WAR COMMANDER WIKIA
Lead AdministratorChanged Damage Per Projectile (DPP) to Damage Per Round (DPR), because everyone liked that more. Added information on Sheila's and Kara's hero effects.
This is great info!
Tech Components:
Compressed Mag: is great for units that have long reload times, but that 10% extra damage drawback really sucks. I was thinking of equipping my Hellhounds with this tech as they have a 3 second reload time, but they are already such fragile units.{EDIT I forgot about the HH's having bloodlust that reduces reload time, can you please explain how much?} Any plans to release some kind of light armor for the hellhounds and Jackal? (with mine proof tires!!!) That might help. Or any chance the 10% damage drawback will be removed?
Explosive Ordnance: Another cool tech, but 5% range decrease kills it. This drops your 500 ranged units down to 475....
Does the new Grenade launcher component have a drawback?
2.) I'm sorry, but for the time being, there is no plan to change Compressed Mag's trade-off.
3.) Same for Explosive Ord. I know the 5% range is pretty rough (though far less relevant on some units than others).
4.) I will investigate the Hellhound's BL next week. I admit that I am currently not sure if it is the same value's as Kara's or if it is entirely different.
5.) The M4GX has no trade-offs, but is restricted to infantry units (it is a Utility - Gear component). The thing is pretty beastly.
So I thought spending a week or so upgrading tech to Lvl 6 was kind of long, now it costs 60 million to upgrade SF tech? I cant even hold 20 million Thor yet, and wow thats alot of Thor!!!
Its currently 4-8-12-16-20 million thor per lvl, I think it should be half that.
5 Second upgrades are nice, but this is just CRAZY...
I have experienced some problems about the understanding of Bloodlust. I think that this must be clarified, because this affects the reload speed, and thus, the damage output
What makes you doubt life comes when you feel you will never doubt your life again.