IN REGARDS TO LIAM"S STATEMENTS.......

  • wardco
    wardco
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 683

    sard... i know you and liam have been hitting it out for years now,,, but i really think his (and the BV team's) points are correct.... the above 2 posts are correct... you cant for thought random chaos.

    the random chaos is what is leading me to beleive there is no long term plan for the game... i dont think kix even thought the game would last this long.  

  • wardco
    wardco
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 683

    i also see that this thread has caused some concern in the kixeyes offices...

    for some reason .. they have told the mods to keep this thread off page one... as it no longer rises to the top when a responce is typed in.

    they are trying to bury the thread 

  • sardonique
    sardonique
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 66
    A G O N Y said:


    The only real thing that I got out of the show was that Liam was whining about not having the forethought and forward thinking that it takes to build fleets to remain competitive.  It's really not that hard to notice and follow trends in this game and adjust accordingly.  So, you got rid of all the bombard and flak in your base after the SCx, HS, and NC came out and now your base is getting prepped to **** by Atlas????  I feel bad for ya son.....got 99 problems, but a **** ain't one.

    This game is cyclical.  Damage types and defenses come in waves.  Rather than whine on a show about the changes, maybe invest more time to forward thinking and relay THAT to the community.  NOW THAT would be worth watching.

    That is the dumbest thing Ive heard all night.  You dont "forethough" ****.  You get what is thrown at you and unless you want to have a **** base for the next month ya need to spend money on refits etc....  This isnt usually a problem for most people at the higher lvls but the amount of **** being thrown is forcing too much time refitting and changing base around.  Yes this is a choice but who wants to log on to 20 hour base guard repair because you didnt buy the counter to hellstrikes 2 days after they were released or the dam guard is just outranged by nukes.  Now I agree with the points made above and I have almost had enough.  I know Im not the only one out there it is all over comms etc..  Now like others they are expressing their concerns because they are sick of the ****.  Say nothing and you wont be heard.

    You are right....my bad...I don't know what the hell I was thinking.  It's always much better to just whine about ****......

    PNLS

  • sardonique
    sardonique
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 66
    wardco said:

    sard... i know you and liam have been hitting it out for years now,,, but i really think his (and the BV team's) points are correct.... the above 2 posts are correct... you cant for thought random chaos.

    the random chaos is what is leading me to beleive there is no long term plan for the game... i dont think kix even thought the game would last this long.  

    It's actually not random chaos.  For people that took out anti's from their base or guard fleet because DNx or MCx became outdated, they made a mistake.  For people who never had evade on their guard in the first place, they also made a mistake.  Forward thinking is how you stay competitive and NOT by having a kneejerk reaction to every little thing that comes out in game......

    PNLS

  • A G O N Y
    A G O N Y
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 797
    A G O N Y said:


    The only real thing that I got out of the show was that Liam was whining about not having the forethought and forward thinking that it takes to build fleets to remain competitive.  It's really not that hard to notice and follow trends in this game and adjust accordingly.  So, you got rid of all the bombard and flak in your base after the SCx, HS, and NC came out and now your base is getting prepped to **** by Atlas????  I feel bad for ya son.....got 99 problems, but a **** ain't one.

    This game is cyclical.  Damage types and defenses come in waves.  Rather than whine on a show about the changes, maybe invest more time to forward thinking and relay THAT to the community.  NOW THAT would be worth watching.

    That is the dumbest thing Ive heard all night.  You dont "forethough" ****.  You get what is thrown at you and unless you want to have a **** base for the next month ya need to spend money on refits etc....  This isnt usually a problem for most people at the higher lvls but the amount of **** being thrown is forcing too much time refitting and changing base around.  Yes this is a choice but who wants to log on to 20 hour base guard repair because you didnt buy the counter to hellstrikes 2 days after they were released or the dam guard is just outranged by nukes.  Now I agree with the points made above and I have almost had enough.  I know Im not the only one out there it is all over comms etc..  Now like others they are expressing their concerns because they are sick of the ****.  Say nothing and you wont be heard.

    You are right....my bad...I don't know what the hell I was thinking.  It's always much better to just whine about ****......

    Not whining just merely expressing my concerns.  Are you telling me you and everyone in your alliance is really happy with the game and the direction is headed?  **** quitting would save me a shitload of money but if there are enough people that get to this point what do you think will happen to the game?  Can you "forethought" that one?

  • Angus Walker
    Angus Walker
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 233

    Having watched the "Power Creep" video, I think the issue with BP is subtly different. They have given some thought to the issues laid out in that video and have emphatically embraced the "incomparables" approach. Looking at it objectively there are now a mesmerisingly complex range of strategies available in the game, with no single approach being overpowered. It is now absolutely possible, for instance, to skip a raid and still be at the cutting edge of competitiveness by using a different approach (didn't get D92Us? Well now there's hornets instead. Or maybe torrents for a different approach. Or retrofit mcxs and siege missiles to the max... etc.)

    No, the issue with BP is all about pace. I have long been of the belief that the secret to success in BP is patience. This is why mega-coiners DON'T rule the waves despite all the money they spend, because they so often rush into builds that are actually crap and don't take the time to learn how to drive them properly. The whole satisfaction with playing BP well is that you have to plan and execute a strategy over a loooooong time, juggling builds and refits in a constant state of never quite being where you want to be, whilst retaining a clear sense of where you are headed. The problem now is twofold:

    1) It's about time creep not power creep. Inevitably, as tech gets more powerful, refit and repair times get longer, so more and more patience is required. However, it is the length of time everything takes that in a sense puts a premium on patience. Some people want it all NOW, but the successful players know how to wait it out and win through in the end. So despite all the whines, this would NOT be the central issue were it not for 2).

    2) The BP designers are working on a different timescale to the rest of us. For the players the game may seem to be all about patience, but not for the designers. They simply cannot wait to get their new tech into the game. No doubt they can play with it on test servers where builds and refits happen instantaneously, so they simply don't understand the length of the timescale on which real players play the game. For them, it seems, the month between raids seems like an eternity, to the extent that they never even wait a full month before rushing out some new incomparable. Which leads to despair amongst the long-gamers who see their patient strategies overwhelmed in avalanche of new concepts.

    So my message to Kixeye is very simple. I think you are going in the right directions and really like the complexity of the web of incomparables you are creating, but just SLOW DOWN for f*ck's sake. Would it really have been so bad if UAVs got introduced in April instead of March? Sure, have a March raid if you need it for the cashflow, but make it a component store, with uranium wins at tier 5. Or something. Or rogue crews as prizes. People will still play just as much, because the raids have a rhythm and BP players are inherently competitive. But by feeling you have to introduce some new incomparable EVERY SINGLE RAID you are working against the long, slow gameplay pace the rest of us work to.

  • Ray_P
    Ray_P
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 2,526
    wardco said:

    i also see that this thread has caused some concern in the kixeyes offices...

    for some reason .. they have told the mods to keep this thread off page one... as it no longer rises to the top when a responce is typed in.

    they are trying to bury the thread 

    I thought it was strange that the thread is on page 2 also

    Ray_P   


    Winner of Hellhound, Grimshine, Nighthawk,  V2 C/H, JuggX, Mastedon, Interceptor, Atlas, Viper, Enforcer, Nash, Reaper, Spectre, Hellstrike, Vindicator, Triton, Stingray, Interdictor, Hurricane, MCX, Goliath, Barracuda, Strike Cruiser, Mercury, Mauler, Super Fortress, Battleship, Battle Cruiser,  HHA,  HHB 

    Remember at the end of the day it's a game,  it's not your life. 

    Sectors 138,  316,  248,  177,   315
  • Jim Baker
    Jim Baker
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 112

    Well I have to admit one thing. I am a HUGE coiner. I started coining the day I started playing because I have a very good income and very low expenses. I don't gamble on slots or online gambling or take many risks and have made myself a good sum and BP was my only distraction and I didn't mind investing in it....but lately and not so lately...certainly the last 6-12 months.....its becoming totally stupid to me to invest more money in a game that is nothing but a slot machine in real terms. Kix controls what wins and what loses now....and because its out of my hands and skill....then its just another slot machine.....I don't play slot machines!!!!


  • CaptJackXXX
    CaptJackXXX
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 202

    I have to agree, but like others said I don't think Kixeye will understand or worse care as long as revenue is good. They fail to realize that a big time coiner will still coin no matter what and will get bored and move on. The non to med coiners stay the longest.

  • Barabbas
    Barabbas
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Mar 2011 Posts: 841
    wardco said:

    sard... i know you and liam have been hitting it out for years now,,, but i really think his (and the BV team's) points are correct.... the above 2 posts are correct... you cant for thought random chaos.

    the random chaos is what is leading me to beleive there is no long term plan for the game... i dont think kix even thought the game would last this long.  

    It's actually not random chaos.  For people that took out anti's from their base or guard fleet because DNx or MCx became outdated, they made a mistake.  For people who never had evade on their guard in the first place, they also made a mistake.  Forward thinking is how you stay competitive and NOT by having a kneejerk reaction to every little thing that comes out in game......

    There is a difference between forward thinking and having a crystal ball.

    99% of players did not have the amount of evade needed on their guard fleet to stop NC's.

    Armor panels take forever to re-fit, and this follows the previous re-fits on guards to keep out hells.

    Kix are throwing **** at us every month in the hope we will keep on coining to stop our virtual world from being flattened.


    I refuse to coin re-fits anymore, at the end of the day the player who does will eventually be the loser....not the guy whose base he can roll over.

    Barabbas 
    48159
  • yorkshire bhoy
    yorkshire bhoy
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 53

    I to have hardly been on last 3 weeks,, i have spent loads on this, and basicly carnt be arssed anymore, feels that even with coining i am not makeing progress, so whats the point,,, i will just log in and repair, check builds, and talk to friends.

    LEVEL81    HULLS  all the good one's
  • kaine189
    kaine189
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 204
    I think Kixeye has lost sight of its main player base and simply focuses on how quickly the top percent get through new content. They then make more content to keep this top percent paying and again they just steam through it. I'm sure new tech is tested to some degree but when its done instantaneously on test severs the one thing they aren't and cannot test is how it will effect game balance on a time scale for the majority of their players. 
    Without enough players the people who kixeye rely on to pay their bills will also leave. Its a tough balancing act to keep enough hope and a feeling of accomplishment for your average player and enough new stuff or content to keep the money coming in. One i think kixeye have badly mismanaged with a far to great a focus on money which short term is great but you will lose your game and i may be wrong here but kixeye don't have anything that can replace bp and i don't think they are capable of coming up with something that can compete 

    Be whatever you want to be in life... unless you can be a pirate in which case BE A PIRATE ARRRRRR


  • Jim Baker
    Jim Baker
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 112

    If it costs 40 hours of repairs to hit 1 base, ypu are doing it wrong.


    You are playing in the Majors when you need to be in Little League.

    And you sir are one of the biggest Kixeye trolls on this forum. 5k+ posts?

    Do you actually play the game or just sit here and talk **** to the people who do?

    Do you desire to be a mod that much that you actually completely ignore what the players are saying?.....well it seems so.

    Why don't you just shut up and listen to what people are trying to get across......we can't ALL be wrong and you so correct...EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!!



  • crazyjr
    crazyjr
    Master Tactician
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 2,245

    I guess kixeye is the ultimate troll, they are trying to kill the opposition

  • Admiral-Mike
    Admiral-Mike
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 99

    I really wish Kixeye would listen...Sadly I dont think they will.

  • SunGod1
    SunGod1
    Master Tactician
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 2,103

    YES it is all about luck or lucky timing, that is not how an RTS game should be run.  I have long said there is NO strategy left in this game and it requires no skill what so ever.  I guess in a way I do have a strategy but it is passive not active .. I simply wait ...  

    "The contents of this post are working as intended."
  • crazyjr
    crazyjr
    Master Tactician
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 2,245

    At least they read it if they are truly worried, to the point of burying it. Guess they'll stick their heads in the sand next

  • Toruk
    Toruk
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 2,824

    I to have been loging in more infrequently of late. I just log into check my builds, auto kill some salvage, start the next refit/build and then log out again the fun is just not there right now it seems kixeye needs to make a major shift in their thinking before they lose more of their business. honestly i am giving much more of my time these days to other games mostly on that involves tanks....

  • Sea Surpent
    Sea Surpent
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 753

    I agree with Liam , new content at such short time is to over whelming, I also believe a new Hull introduced every month, with the build times being so long ( without coining 2-3 hulls) is way out of hand.

    I like the raid being every month, but it should introduce previous offered Hulls/tech  to let People catch up, before adding a new Hull , maybe every 3rd month add a New Hull/weapon, giving players a chance to build Hulls they have already won.

    I for one am still building Reapers/sting rays/Vindicators, from previous raids, and have no way of competing correctly, & will not coin entire fleets, to find out I have to refit them for changing targets.

    I still believe the game is fun, but believe Money is getting to be more of a factor then just being a fun game to play.

    but in the end, Kixeye is the owner, it is up to them how long the game lasts, People seem to quit every day !

  • wolfpack349
    wolfpack349
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 166
    Yeah, actually I won't.  I pay to play for FUN.  I love having an advantage as a coiner, but it's gotten ridiculous.  I really enjoy the social aspect, and getting on with a group of people having fun working on a strategy for taking a hard base, the FVF involved in doing so, and everyone being able to afford to play makes it fun.   When build and repair times become un-affordable, most players will move on to a different game, and this one simply won't be fun anymore.  

    I have to agree, but like others said I don't think Kixeye will understand or worse care as long as revenue is good. They fail to realize that a big time coiner will still coin no matter what and will get bored and move on. The non to med coiners stay the longest.


  • MMT335
    MMT335
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 44
    crazyjr said:

    At least they read it if they are truly worried, to the point of burying it. Guess they'll stick their heads in the sand next


  • Sure Eye
    Sure Eye
    Potential Threat
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 30
    Battle pirates like any other game has lost its fire due to an attempt to keep the game exciting to everyone, but as many know, and have learned, you cant rush everything out at once, you make more money by throwing a few bones out there, and let people enjoy them, play with them, and work on different strategy techniques, this is where i believe that you can help yourself, allow players to refit there weapons of same tier type weapons for free after there built the first time around, and a reduced time and cost for upgrading them to a newer weapon, or higher tier ( you still get your coins ). After spending many hours, and much coin on winning new fleets in a raid, or mission, don't allow them to be coined instant the day you get the print, make it a standard time, and than a reduced build time after 5 have been built the old fashion way, this will add a level ground for all players for at least 30 days, and give people a chance to to build the things they have won, and no new ships should ever excede 7 days per build in my opinion. Again, you still get your coin on those wanting to spend to ensure they get the new hull or weapon.( and for haters, the concept is easy, I build boats for a living, and the first 5 ships always takes more time to build, work out the bugs, than production increases by 50% after that ) to help with ship repairs, allow us to repair all fleets, as long as we have the res in our whs at the time of the repairs, that way we can repair several fleets while at work, or at sleep, and have the ability to have a great night smashing bases, fleets, etc, and having the knowledge that when we get back on, we can still play, and not hit repair on another fleet, and chat with a few friends, and than log off again until the next morning.. and this can give you coin as well, buy res if you don't currently have enough res to repair all fleets. Do something with medals, make them useful for something, cash them in for increased build time, researches, something, currently they serve no purpose, just meaningless to most people, make them fun, and useful for earning them, or rewards for those that build good bases, and stop the fleets that are giving them away. find a way to increase build times on ships, turrets, and researches, use medals, extra resources, etc, build a fleet planner like the base planner, anything that speeds up the fleets will keep people excited to play the game, you can still have people coin fleets, but give them an option, 50% faster with coin, or like 25% with other means. lets bring the fvf, give people something for these battles, as i think fvf is one of the best parts to BP, but what do you get it from it, nothing but more repair times, how about hask marks that can be traded in for things like 1% accuracy for 100 hash points, etc with a max of like 10% total, or something, just a thought, you may get more people coining there repairs for fvf. and my final notes, raids need to be every 3 months, and research times need to be brought back to normal time, or reward those off us that spent 10-17 days researching what the new players are now doing in 2- 4 days. I completely agree with all the others that kixeye, you need to take a hard look at where this game is going, many are leaving, and most of us are only here to chat with friends these days, and these items listed above are just my own thoughts, and know many will disagree with me, and thats ok too, we each have a right to our own thoughts

    Agree with all that has been said here, no one expects Kixeye not to move the game on but been some dramatic changes not saying all bad but a lot to quick, subtle changes would work better both for Kixeye and players. Yes lot of players now only just popping on and a lot more disillusioned with the game. Kixeye needs has to make the first move to bring back rational thinking as they control the game but at moment live in hope they will listen to what players want and not try and do to many changes to quick in the future  

  • jonny cabbage
    jonny cabbage
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,345

    well the main thing i have changed in my game play is (apart from not hitting player bases anymore) is parking base guard in dock rather than in my channel, no refits or repairs to worry about now lol, it's fucing boring just playing against the ai on weeklies n raids though so my time logged on has dropped off a hell of a lot.. 

     
  • blasterdan
    blasterdan
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 146

    I agree, game's getting stupid when coiners seem to be the only one's Kix cares about and many of us long time players feel cheated after putting in so much time on gaurds/fleets and base design to have a 15 mil id player come into my base with the new NC's(i'm a 73, 2.7 mil id) and level it easily when i've stopped DNX's, MCX's Threshers and even Hells on a fairly regular basis. How much time has he invested? Very little i'm afraid. Well, this now non-coining player is just waiting for another game to hit the waves, heard there might be one soon and i'll be happy to sacrifice all i've put into this game and move on fairly easily. Kix, i blame your greedyness on ruining a fun game and am looking forward to another Warship game, hope it comes soon? They already have tanks and airplanes, i hear very few complaints from those players, so when Warships is released, i think it's "hey hey goodbye" Kixeye                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Lvl 73-id 2.7 mil: winner of almost every hull, except Jug X(crap) 

  • Kriger
    Kriger
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 32
    edited 23 Mar 2014, 4:21PM

    Not that Kixeye will feel any pain from my lack of involvement in the game but, I totally agree about how the game continues to be less fun and more costly. I have coined in the game but, I am not a big coiner. In fact, I fit in the category of logging in to repair, maybe do some refits on hulls (which are outdated by the time the fleet is complete), get some sally's, maybe engage in a couple FvF or give a base hit a whirl but, mostly just to chat with the friends I have made.

    I've never been a powerhouse in this game (which I used to enjoy more than today) and I likely never will be given the current path of business and less game entertainment. As my game time continues to take the downturn I'll hopefully be able to keep in contact with the friends and maybe find another game to join in with them. I'm not fully walking away from the game "yet".  But, in the last two weeks my patience and addiction has dropped to perhaps ten hours. I see that as a good thing with the weather changing and Spring trying to get here. It just means more time this Summer to bbq, chill by the pool, play some volleyball and softball, camp and maybe I'll even take up some more fishing.

    Best of luck to you all in the game...I'll see some of you from time to time, maybe make some new friends. But, I won't be coining to pop that bubble some of ya are sure to give me. So, you'll just have to wait longer to smash my base again. I'll send out some fleets to play with if online but, even those take time to repair.

    .....out here
    Kriger

    \\m// (^.^) \\m//
  • jonny cabbage
    jonny cabbage
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,345

    as a small side note, funny how this thread is STILL not on the first page innit lol

     
  • g0dhand
    g0dhand
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 51

    i rarely post but when i read something like this, it makes me want to actually post something. i have been playing the monthly raid getting the hulls and weapons, spent some money only to find myself not making those new things that i get. now i get the picture that even if i spend money to get the new things i won't be able to make them because the build time is just too much that it's not worth it. if you coin a fleet of new things you only get few minutes of fun with them with absurd amount of repair time if they die. if you want to play again for few minutes you will have to spend alot of money to bring your fleet back to life only to play with them for a very short time. for me that feels like flushing my money down the toilet and it's not right. this is the most expensive flash player game that i know of. i can't believe that there are still players who can tolerate the amount of money kixeye is charging over this game. i find myself repairing my fleet most of the time than actually hitting a base or doing anything productive in the game. when i see most of the players i know quit i will follow suit as well, im only staying because of my friends in it. i have played war commander but quit after they introduced the spectre gunship, i can have those but for me making the game unbalance then next month they're releasing something new that will take it out, it's a never ending boring cycle that is not fun anymore. also putting a timer on the fortress wave is a joke! no actual new content and the cheating is rampant on that game that's why im here in BP right now. i feel like now is the time to listen to the community since it may be the last time you will hear from some of us.

  • sardonique
    sardonique
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 66
    wardco said:

    sard... what you call forward thinking.. might be misconscrewed as "a lucky guess" in some peoples eyes.


    but to say that Liam was just whining, is in bad taste, IMHO

    he had the balls to stand up and speak his feelings... and now we are finding out that his "feelings" are shared by quite a few of us that have been playiing for years

    With all due respect man......

    the forums are not a good representation of the pulse for the majority of the community.  that is apparent during the first couple of hours of the raid each month.  all you see are people whining and rage-quitting over a game that has become too hard.  the "majority" of the community (who do not share these sentiments) have learned their lesson and realized to stay off of the forums.

    I, maybe due to misplaced hope.....continue to log onto the forums in an attempt to try and offer a solid voice from someone who loves to play this game.  I remember when Liam used to help the community.  Now, he just seems to be on an anti-Kix campaign.  His voice is in the minority, when it comes to true pirates who play the game and remain competitive.  

    Case in point, look at the views/responses that a post like the Guru contest receives compared to this one.  Seems to me that a whole LOT of people are entering a contest for a game they are about to ragequit.

    PNLS

  • mike.scott.73307
    mike.scott.73307
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 626

    Just thought I would add my two cents in: the biggest issue to me is time.  Time for builds and repairs and since gold is time is how kixeye makes money its not easy to fix.  Without seeing the details on income that they will (and should) guard carefully its hard to know how things are going in that respect.  I hope they do come up with something that works for them and for us but I think they need to be more open about what they are thinking so we get a chance to help them tune it better and that would maybe also give us a glimmer of hope.

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