The cap out on the new Raid coming up...

  • Jefe Loco
    Jefe Loco
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 279

    IM a mid level player that tried to do B set and could barely do it once with serious help on 44 & 45 targets. Now it sounds like I will not be allowed to get anywhere close to what i earned in last two raids because of this horrible cap idea. If the problem is that high level players are grinding C targets, then put a player level cap on C targets preventing this from happening. Do NOT punish lower & Mid level players because of what lazy high level players are doing! Guess I will be sitting this raid out and spending my money somewhere else....

    Hulls won: Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, Destroyer X, Battlebarge A, Leviathan A, Light Cruisers, Battle Cruiser, BCX, Scorpion A, Hammer Head A/B, Rampart, Mako, Mercury, Hurricane, Goliath, Dreadnought, Barracuda, Spectre, Vindicator, Beserker
  • SirDrake Junior
    SirDrake Junior
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 25

    This level cap... 

    All these restrictions, caps, it's only aimed at people to coin more. I for one refuse to coin because of that. I would be more than happy to coin a little bit here and there if I felt it would push me just that bit extra towards good prizes and fun stuff. Instead now I get the feeling Kix is trying to force me to pay - and then I refuse.
    Immediately after last raid I planned this month out - what to research and upgrade to get optimal result in the next raid. If I then needed to speed up the last two days to finish stuff, I'd happily coined that. Now theres no need because I'm not speeding up three different researches a full week...

    There probably will be a shortage on 25's and maybe 41s or 42s. No way everybody's going to hunt 21s for their points. What point is there to stay in the tier structure once the bonus is removed. Everybody will look for the most profitable points/low repair time target.
    Last raid spawn rate of c tier was way to low (even after the said increased spawn rate), this doesnt change it, it'll only make certain targets even more scarce.

    Not happy...

    Shakespeare: to be or not to be
    Sartre: to be is to do
    Sinatra: do be do be do
  • Odins_Slayer
    Odins_Slayer
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2012 Posts: 758

    The raids have been so ridiculously easy for a while I am glad they capped it to then 10x through. I am tired of seeing level 60s doing the c level anyways. There should be a level cap as well. Kixeye been handing out hulls to lower levels, 3 of them every week in weeklies. Anyone could do a little work and get free hulls. When I started, hulls were not given so freely and with ease. 


    So you do like to slam out a grand deal of cash do you? i just turn 60 , so you sauy i should slam away at the Aset? And the hulls you say get handed out in FM oh do they NO THEY DONT!  I LIKE TO HAVE AN OPTIN ON MY PLAY STYLE IN RAID IF YOU DONT I DONT CARE AS THE 2 LAST RAID BEEN FAIR AND THE BEST SINCE BASE INVADERS  RAIDS !

    Have A Nice Day!
    Odins-Slayer!

  • makowere
    makowere
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 429
    Sammy_H14 said:

    Wow...Players will complain about anything, if it is not going their way.  Okay so they put a cap on it...no big deal.  First, if you are a lower level and you  believe you should have Tier 5 hulls, think again.  Your not even close to have them.  Second, so if I complete 10 B targets that means I get somewhere around 10 mil points.  Okay that gives me the points I need for 3 of the things I need and points left over.  So if I decide if I need the hull then I need to hit B set around 24 more times.  I am good with that.  Players have to remember there is always a reason for what they do.  

    Players have been complaining about not enough c targets cause upper level players are farming them from the lower levels.  So Maybe that is the reason.

    Maybe the reason is to start getting players to learn tactics, strategy, and fleet control.  If you are in the mid to upper level and can't hit B targets from the raids then you might want to look at how you build fleets. The game is going to evolve, if you are stuck in you rather have the game how it was two years ago, then maybe the game is not for you.

    They have told us a week in advance that there will be a new enforcer and some of its abilities.  So be prepare and adapt to it.

    If you think you deserve the same ability as a coiner, then start coining.  Remember they make the game free to you.  

    So, It is OK in your mind for you to grind out on a set for what you need to get top tier (sorry if you can only do B tier you are not ready for Top prizes), but it is not OK in your mind that a lower level player that has the time to put in, and probably the coin to do the same?


    What is the magical level at which someone is ready for the top tier prizes? If I can put in 20 hours a day over the 4 days or week, should I not be worthy of taking the top prize? 


    I do like the idea of a cap, it means that I can play the game the 13th for about 2 hours and be done for the rest of the weekend. As I will not continue to play if I feel I am forced to play a certain way.

    Sharing Love and Joy since November 2013
  • TheBearMay
    TheBearMay
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 57
    edited 8 Feb 2014, 3:33PM

    Plain and simple, Kix missed the boat on this.  The reason the Cs are farmed is that unless you happened to guess right in building your fleets 3 months ago, the Bs will take more than one fleet to complete (3-4 is what I've been seeing on average when watching).  So, if you don't want the Cs to be farmed, make the Bs more reasonable.

  • Kaloz the Inebriated
    Kaloz the Inebriated
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 267
    Maybe we should think of this as a mini-raid, or a larger weekly mission.  Can quickly do the sets, either C or B or Both, depending on ability and friends, won't have to spend long on the raid and can pick out a prize or two instead of just a random like the weekly.  Then the extra time can be spent spoiling your significant other so you don't have to complain about having to choose between spending lots of time on the raid or the important person.....

  • imoffski
    imoffski
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 19

    My understanding of the meaning of "cap" in this context, is that the bonus will increase every time you complete a set until the bonus reaches the cap, for every set you complete after that you will get the highest (cap) bonus for that tier of targets...  C = 75k,  this is exactly the same as the last raid.

    For me these raids are a chance to improve my base defense with things like HALO and JAVs, hulls are a secondary consideration as like a lot of people I still have a lot to build.

  • WEREMONKEY
    WEREMONKEY
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 64

    The raids have been so ridiculously easy for a while I am glad they capped it to then 10x through. I am tired of seeing level 60s doing the c level anyways. There should be a level cap as well. Kixeye been handing out hulls to lower levels, 3 of them every week in weeklies. Anyone could do a little work and get free hulls. When I started, hulls were not given so freely and with ease. 


    Yeah, you're clearly a troll.  Probably a hacker who got his account reset considering your join date and number of posts.  And not everyone gets the chance to get a hull every week as it's random, you dumb ****.  What a crock this guy is...

  • Cashizzell
    Cashizzell
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 95

    WHaT's the fookin point of even having a completion bonus if ya gonna limit players getting it? best to just nix it completely and really **** the players over!!

    Battle Pirates name:Cashizzell   
    Home Sector: 302
    Visited Sectors: 34,74,213
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  • makowere
    makowere
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 429

    My understanding of the meaning of "cap" in this context, is that the bonus will increase every time you complete a set until the bonus reaches the cap, for every set you complete after that you will get the highest (cap) bonus for that tier of targets...  C = 75k,  this is exactly the same as the last raid.

    For me these raids are a chance to improve my base defense with things like HALO and JAVs, hulls are a secondary consideration as like a lot of people I still have a lot to build.

    No, that is not what is meant, It is capped out at 10 times for completions. It has been stated by CM Robot that the bonus for completing the tiers will end after the 10th completion as well.


    You would need 12 million points for the Jav and Halo, if the points are correct anyway from what I have seen. That is all of B tier 10 times through, and another 250K coming from something else. Or 230 completions of C tier, if it was like last raid where a guy was able to spend 1 coin for 250K pts (which is quite good I think) would not work this time around due to the bonus points being taken away.


    That 250K pts was compelting C tier twice through, which to get the same points this time (after 10th compeletion) would require 2.5 times around. Meaning the person that was spending 1 coin, would be spending 2 coins at least or having to wait for ships to repair a bit more than before.

    Sharing Love and Joy since November 2013
  • TheGrimReapers
    TheGrimReapers
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jun 2012 Posts: 67

    When almost 1/5 of your players have left in last year Kixeye is again screwing the rest of us to try to maintain a large profit margine on this game , sad, really sad !

  • thesmoker420
    thesmoker420
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 25

    we not aloud to compete for top prizes yet we get farmed by them 

    SMOKE WEED EVERYDAY image
  • Acid__BuRn
    Acid__BuRn
    Greenhorn
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 19

    So I guess the real question is what's the Massive payout going to be, And that will determine if most and not if all players will actually even play this raid, Since with this new capping out... 

  • Jefe Loco
    Jefe Loco
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 279

    Plain and simple, Kix missed the boat on this.  The reason the Cs are farmed is that unless you happened to guess right in building your fleets 3 months ago, the Bs will take more than one fleet to complete (3-4 is what I've been seeing on average when watching).  So, if you don't want the Cs to be farmed, make the Bs more reasonable.

    This!!!

    Hulls won: Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, Destroyer X, Battlebarge A, Leviathan A, Light Cruisers, Battle Cruiser, BCX, Scorpion A, Hammer Head A/B, Rampart, Mako, Mercury, Hurricane, Goliath, Dreadnought, Barracuda, Spectre, Vindicator, Beserker
  • Raymond mcvay
    Raymond mcvay
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 1,670
    Sammy_H14 said:
    Sammy_H14 said:

    Wow...Players will complain about anything, if it is not going their way.  Okay so they put a cap on it...no big deal.  First, if you are a lower level and you  believe you should have Tier 5 hulls, think again.  Your not even close to have them.  Second, so if I complete 10 B targets that means I get somewhere around 10 mil points.  Okay that gives me the points I need for 3 of the things I need and points left over.  So if I decide if I need the hull then I need to hit B set around 24 more times.  I am good with that.  Players have to remember there is always a reason for what they do.  

    Players have been complaining about not enough c targets cause upper level players are farming them from the lower levels.  So Maybe that is the reason.

    Maybe the reason is to start getting players to learn tactics, strategy, and fleet control.  If you are in the mid to upper level and can't hit B targets from the raids then you might want to look at how you build fleets. The game is going to evolve, if you are stuck in you rather have the game how it was two years ago, then maybe the game is not for you.

    They have told us a week in advance that there will be a new enforcer and some of its abilities.  So be prepare and adapt to it.

    If you think you deserve the same ability as a coiner, then start coining.  Remember they make the game free to you.  

    Yes, it is a big deal.

    What I (and others) are complaining about is the fact that Kix won't let us play and keep earning points at a reasonable level.

    This is exactly the same farce as the "declining bonus points" (the longer you play, the less points you will get for performing the same action) and everybody saw and knows just how well that worked. So Kix tries to repackage the same crap and sell it to us as something new and we get upset.

    I do lightly coin, I do build fleets, I do refit fleets, etc., etc. This isn't right. If I have the fleets to get every prize and I want to keep going until I get all of the prizes that are available to me, I should be able to without being penalized for continuing to play after I have cleared a tier 10 times.

    Starting a target with Reavers already shooting at you isn't a "strategy". "Here, take damage in the first SECOND of battle...", What kind of "strategy" is that? I have never begrudged Kixeye making money (past posts can confirm that), but there is a limit and plenty of players are now telling Kixeye that they have (yet again) crossed that limit/threshold.

    I use to get frustrated with this game, even had some of the same thoughts as others.  Then I started to read a little more to understand the game.  Improve my strategy.  I adapt to what they do, but I also don't go for all the high price toys all the time.   I always look at what they have coming and then make a decision do I need it now or can it wait.  My first priority is always get all the items I need to make my currents fleets and base better for my level.  It has been a long process for me and it has paid off, I took it in stages.  If they put a cap on, for me instead of complain about it, I make a plan on what I have to do to get what I need and make it work for me.  

    We have always had targets that started giving us damage as we entered the battle, go back to the old style military fleets.  Some of those as soon as you enter 3 ships land right on top of you and start pounding on you.  So we have seen it before.

    This game is going to keep evolving so we has players need to evolve with it or it will really get boring.  

    You are not getting it. I do improve my strategy, I do adapt, I don't always go for every prize available. But Kix purposely limiting me if I decide to try for more prizes is crap. Period. That is why so many players are complaining.

    Yes, we have had targets that automatically give us damage before, and again I will ask "What kind of "strategy" is that?". Just because they have done it before doesn't make it acceptable now, nor does it count as some sort of strategy to automatically guarantee damage to players fleets.

    I do not have a problem with the game evolving either. Telling the player base that you can only play so much then you will get diminishing returns for continuing to play is not an evolution of the game, it is illogical at best.


    Imagine what would happen if they did this in the FM? "We are tired of players auto-hitting 27's (or 34's) so... from now on, after your tenth time hitting a level 27 (or 34) Outpost it will only give you half the points and half the resources." I have my fleets set up a certain way to auto those targets and as I get better fleets, I will refit/swap out/scrap the lesser ones as needed. I can finish the Fm in under two hours with a little coin. Or if I am a little short on resources and have the time, I can auto for two days to finish. My Choice. If Kix suddenly decides that... yes, we give you three days to do the FM but we are tired of you autoing fleets so we are going to make to where A. You have to coin to do it in two hours or B. It will take you twice as long because we are "capping" the points and res... You could bet your next months salary a LOT of players (myself included) would be VERY angry.

    What if they did this with cargo fleets? After your tenth level 51 (or 65, or 71, depends on your level) cargo fleet you will no longer receive the "bonus" rep or alli points? You don't think players would get mad?

    I don't mind evolution of the game to keep it from stagnating, but I will not let them tell me how to play the game as well. Why? Because our two viewpoints on how to play the game differ greatly. They would rather I don't actually play long hours, they would rather that every player find ONE part of a BP then coin to finish it. They would prefer that I coin ALL of my fleets (builds and refits), they would rather that I just blindly throw my fleets at a target (damage be dammed) until I kill it... because after all, they sell resources and speed-ups for repairs.

    "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, 
    but because he loves what is behind him" 

  • Jefe Loco
    Jefe Loco
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 279
    GuapoLoco said:

    IM a mid level player that tried to do B set and could barely do it once with serious help on 44 & 45 targets. Now it sounds like I will not be allowed to get anywhere close to what i earned in last two raids because of this horrible cap idea. If the problem is that high level players are grinding C targets, then put a player level cap on C targets preventing this from happening. Do NOT punish lower & Mid level players because of what lazy high level players are doing! Guess I will be sitting this raid out and spending my money somewhere else....

    Just curious as to why someone would DISLIKE my comment? lol

    Hulls won: Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, Destroyer X, Battlebarge A, Leviathan A, Light Cruisers, Battle Cruiser, BCX, Scorpion A, Hammer Head A/B, Rampart, Mako, Mercury, Hurricane, Goliath, Dreadnought, Barracuda, Spectre, Vindicator, Beserker
  • Raymond mcvay
    Raymond mcvay
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 1,670

    My understanding of the meaning of "cap" in this context, is that the bonus will increase every time you complete a set until the bonus reaches the cap, for every set you complete after that you will get the highest (cap) bonus for that tier of targets...  C = 75k,  this is exactly the same as the last raid.

    For me these raids are a chance to improve my base defense with things like HALO and JAVs, hulls are a secondary consideration as like a lot of people I still have a lot to build.

    You are wrong. It is NOT exactly the same as last raid. The bonus goes away. After the tenth time, you will only get individual points for individual targets.

    "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, 
    but because he loves what is behind him" 

  • Sammy_H14
    Sammy_H14
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 1,214
    Sammy_H14 said:
    Sammy_H14 said:

    Wow...Players will complain about anything, if it is not going their way.  Okay so they put a cap on it...no big deal.  First, if you are a lower level and you  believe you should have Tier 5 hulls, think again.  Your not even close to have them.  Second, so if I complete 10 B targets that means I get somewhere around 10 mil points.  Okay that gives me the points I need for 3 of the things I need and points left over.  So if I decide if I need the hull then I need to hit B set around 24 more times.  I am good with that.  Players have to remember there is always a reason for what they do.  

    Players have been complaining about not enough c targets cause upper level players are farming them from the lower levels.  So Maybe that is the reason.

    Maybe the reason is to start getting players to learn tactics, strategy, and fleet control.  If you are in the mid to upper level and can't hit B targets from the raids then you might want to look at how you build fleets. The game is going to evolve, if you are stuck in you rather have the game how it was two years ago, then maybe the game is not for you.

    They have told us a week in advance that there will be a new enforcer and some of its abilities.  So be prepare and adapt to it.

    If you think you deserve the same ability as a coiner, then start coining.  Remember they make the game free to you.  

    Yes, it is a big deal.

    What I (and others) are complaining about is the fact that Kix won't let us play and keep earning points at a reasonable level.

    This is exactly the same farce as the "declining bonus points" (the longer you play, the less points you will get for performing the same action) and everybody saw and knows just how well that worked. So Kix tries to repackage the same crap and sell it to us as something new and we get upset.

    I do lightly coin, I do build fleets, I do refit fleets, etc., etc. This isn't right. If I have the fleets to get every prize and I want to keep going until I get all of the prizes that are available to me, I should be able to without being penalized for continuing to play after I have cleared a tier 10 times.

    Starting a target with Reavers already shooting at you isn't a "strategy". "Here, take damage in the first SECOND of battle...", What kind of "strategy" is that? I have never begrudged Kixeye making money (past posts can confirm that), but there is a limit and plenty of players are now telling Kixeye that they have (yet again) crossed that limit/threshold.

    I use to get frustrated with this game, even had some of the same thoughts as others.  Then I started to read a little more to understand the game.  Improve my strategy.  I adapt to what they do, but I also don't go for all the high price toys all the time.   I always look at what they have coming and then make a decision do I need it now or can it wait.  My first priority is always get all the items I need to make my currents fleets and base better for my level.  It has been a long process for me and it has paid off, I took it in stages.  If they put a cap on, for me instead of complain about it, I make a plan on what I have to do to get what I need and make it work for me.  

    We have always had targets that started giving us damage as we entered the battle, go back to the old style military fleets.  Some of those as soon as you enter 3 ships land right on top of you and start pounding on you.  So we have seen it before.

    This game is going to keep evolving so we has players need to evolve with it or it will really get boring.  

    You are not getting it. I do improve my strategy, I do adapt, I don't always go for every prize available. But Kix purposely limiting me if I decide to try for more prizes is crap. Period. That is why so many players are complaining.

    Yes, we have had targets that automatically give us damage before, and again I will ask "What kind of "strategy" is that?". Just because they have done it before doesn't make it acceptable now, nor does it count as some sort of strategy to automatically guarantee damage to players fleets.

    I do not have a problem with the game evolving either. Telling the player base that you can only play so much then you will get diminishing returns for continuing to play is not an evolution of the game, it is illogical at best.


    Imagine what would happen if they did this in the FM? "We are tired of players auto-hitting 27's (or 34's) so... from now on, after your tenth time hitting a level 27 (or 34) Outpost it will only give you half the points and half the resources." I have my fleets set up a certain way to auto those targets and as I get better fleets, I will refit/swap out/scrap the lesser ones as needed. I can finish the Fm in under two hours with a little coin. Or if I am a little short on resources and have the time, I can auto for two days to finish. My Choice. If Kix suddenly decides that... yes, we give you three days to do the FM but we are tired of you autoing fleets so we are going to make to where A. You have to coin to do it in two hours or B. It will take you twice as long because we are "capping" the points and res... You could bet your next months salary a LOT of players (myself included) would be VERY angry.

    What if they did this with cargo fleets? After your tenth level 51 (or 65, or 71, depends on your level) cargo fleet you will no longer receive the "bonus" rep or alli points? You don't think players would get mad?

    I don't mind evolution of the game to keep it from stagnating, but I will not let them tell me how to play the game as well. Why? Because our two viewpoints on how to play the game differ greatly. They would rather I don't actually play long hours, they would rather that every player find ONE part of a BP then coin to finish it. They would prefer that I coin ALL of my fleets (builds and refits), they would rather that I just blindly throw my fleets at a target (damage be dammed) until I kill it... because after all, they sell resources and speed-ups for repairs.

    For previous raids if I remember correctly we never got bonus for completing a set.  So, I take it has they gave us this option to be able to get use to the new style of raid and difficulty.  Again, 2 raids now, they gave us time to adapt.  They are still giving us a bonus, just limiting the bonus.  They are not telling you that you can't continue to hit the targets.  No one is telling anyone that once you complete 10 sets of C you have to hit B's.

    I do get it very much....You are not getting a diminishing return on your targets you will still get the amount for each target you hit.  They never had to give us a bonus in the first place.  All this means for me is that instead of 25 sets of B targets, I will have to hit 35 sets if I want the new hull plus everything else.  I have no problem with that.  

    What will make it even worse is that within 5 minutes of the raid starting the forum will blow up on how hard everything is and they increased the level of difficulty.  

  • Raymond mcvay
    Raymond mcvay
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 1,670
    GuapoLoco said:
    GuapoLoco said:

    IM a mid level player that tried to do B set and could barely do it once with serious help on 44 & 45 targets. Now it sounds like I will not be allowed to get anywhere close to what i earned in last two raids because of this horrible cap idea. If the problem is that high level players are grinding C targets, then put a player level cap on C targets preventing this from happening. Do NOT punish lower & Mid level players because of what lazy high level players are doing! Guess I will be sitting this raid out and spending my money somewhere else....

    Just curious as to why someone would DISLIKE my comment? lol

    Why? Because... if the problem is not enough "C" targets, you choose to wish to make the game harder on somebody else by limiting what they can hit. The more logical thing would be to wish that more "C" targets would spawn so there were enough for everybody. 

    Kinda funny when you are mad about Kix limiting players, then you ask for players to be limited.

    "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, 
    but because he loves what is behind him" 

  • Jefe Loco
    Jefe Loco
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 279
    GuapoLoco said:
    GuapoLoco said:

    IM a mid level player that tried to do B set and could barely do it once with serious help on 44 & 45 targets. Now it sounds like I will not be allowed to get anywhere close to what i earned in last two raids because of this horrible cap idea. If the problem is that high level players are grinding C targets, then put a player level cap on C targets preventing this from happening. Do NOT punish lower & Mid level players because of what lazy high level players are doing! Guess I will be sitting this raid out and spending my money somewhere else....

    Just curious as to why someone would DISLIKE my comment? lol

    Why? Because... if the problem is not enough "C" targets, you choose to wish to make the game harder on somebody else by limiting what they can hit. The more logical thing would be to wish that more "C" targets would spawn so there were enough for everybody. 

    Kinda funny when you are mad about Kix limiting players, then you ask for players to be limited.

    I meant they should not allow higher level players to hit C targets, instead of putting a cap that affects all levels like you and me who need to hit C's to get prizes we want. Maybe I worded it wrong. Anyways, not trying to argue, just wanted to clarify. Honestly, Ive been reading your comments in this thread and I pretty much agree with you 100% btw

    Hulls won: Corvette, Frigate, Destroyer, Destroyer X, Battlebarge A, Leviathan A, Light Cruisers, Battle Cruiser, BCX, Scorpion A, Hammer Head A/B, Rampart, Mako, Mercury, Hurricane, Goliath, Dreadnought, Barracuda, Spectre, Vindicator, Beserker
  • Jeff_D6751
    Jeff_D6751
    Greenhorn
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 7

    If they're going to cap mid level players from top prizes, the least they could do is cap top players from leveling my base repeatedly with their new fleets. Their stupid cap will prevent me from getting the prizes I need to even mount a mediocre defense.

  • Cashizzell
    Cashizzell
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 95
    edited 8 Feb 2014, 5:25PM

    The only thing i can see about this bonus point cap is that they want to make you have to play longer so your fleets are more damaged so you coin the repairs so you can continue working towards whichever prize goals you set for yourself...in an attempt to prevent peeps grinding the C tier targets it now is going to make peeps grind 2 or 3 times as much and longer just to reach what would have taken far less time to reach with no cap on the bonus points.  so again i reiterate why the **** even have the bonus at all if that's the goal?? go back to the earlier raids with no bonus at all and thus was a herculean struggle just to get to say tier 2 or something...

    Battle Pirates name:Cashizzell   
    Home Sector: 302
    Visited Sectors: 34,74,213
    Level 62                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        
  • Raymond mcvay
    Raymond mcvay
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 1,670
    Sammy_H14 said:
    Sammy_H14 said:
    Sammy_H14 said:

    Wow...Players will complain about anything, if it is not going their way.  Okay so they put a cap on it...no big deal.  First, if you are a lower level and you  believe you should have Tier 5 hulls, think again.  Your not even close to have them.  Second, so if I complete 10 B targets that means I get somewhere around 10 mil points.  Okay that gives me the points I need for 3 of the things I need and points left over.  So if I decide if I need the hull then I need to hit B set around 24 more times.  I am good with that.  Players have to remember there is always a reason for what they do.  

    Players have been complaining about not enough c targets cause upper level players are farming them from the lower levels.  So Maybe that is the reason.

    Maybe the reason is to start getting players to learn tactics, strategy, and fleet control.  If you are in the mid to upper level and can't hit B targets from the raids then you might want to look at how you build fleets. The game is going to evolve, if you are stuck in you rather have the game how it was two years ago, then maybe the game is not for you.

    They have told us a week in advance that there will be a new enforcer and some of its abilities.  So be prepare and adapt to it.

    If you think you deserve the same ability as a coiner, then start coining.  Remember they make the game free to you.  

    Yes, it is a big deal.

    What I (and others) are complaining about is the fact that Kix won't let us play and keep earning points at a reasonable level.

    This is exactly the same farce as the "declining bonus points" (the longer you play, the less points you will get for performing the same action) and everybody saw and knows just how well that worked. So Kix tries to repackage the same crap and sell it to us as something new and we get upset.

    I do lightly coin, I do build fleets, I do refit fleets, etc., etc. This isn't right. If I have the fleets to get every prize and I want to keep going until I get all of the prizes that are available to me, I should be able to without being penalized for continuing to play after I have cleared a tier 10 times.

    Starting a target with Reavers already shooting at you isn't a "strategy". "Here, take damage in the first SECOND of battle...", What kind of "strategy" is that? I have never begrudged Kixeye making money (past posts can confirm that), but there is a limit and plenty of players are now telling Kixeye that they have (yet again) crossed that limit/threshold.

    I use to get frustrated with this game, even had some of the same thoughts as others.  Then I started to read a little more to understand the game.  Improve my strategy.  I adapt to what they do, but I also don't go for all the high price toys all the time.   I always look at what they have coming and then make a decision do I need it now or can it wait.  My first priority is always get all the items I need to make my currents fleets and base better for my level.  It has been a long process for me and it has paid off, I took it in stages.  If they put a cap on, for me instead of complain about it, I make a plan on what I have to do to get what I need and make it work for me.  

    We have always had targets that started giving us damage as we entered the battle, go back to the old style military fleets.  Some of those as soon as you enter 3 ships land right on top of you and start pounding on you.  So we have seen it before.

    This game is going to keep evolving so we has players need to evolve with it or it will really get boring.  

    You are not getting it. I do improve my strategy, I do adapt, I don't always go for every prize available. But Kix purposely limiting me if I decide to try for more prizes is crap. Period. That is why so many players are complaining.

    Yes, we have had targets that automatically give us damage before, and again I will ask "What kind of "strategy" is that?". Just because they have done it before doesn't make it acceptable now, nor does it count as some sort of strategy to automatically guarantee damage to players fleets.

    I do not have a problem with the game evolving either. Telling the player base that you can only play so much then you will get diminishing returns for continuing to play is not an evolution of the game, it is illogical at best.


    Imagine what would happen if they did this in the FM? "We are tired of players auto-hitting 27's (or 34's) so... from now on, after your tenth time hitting a level 27 (or 34) Outpost it will only give you half the points and half the resources." I have my fleets set up a certain way to auto those targets and as I get better fleets, I will refit/swap out/scrap the lesser ones as needed. I can finish the Fm in under two hours with a little coin. Or if I am a little short on resources and have the time, I can auto for two days to finish. My Choice. If Kix suddenly decides that... yes, we give you three days to do the FM but we are tired of you autoing fleets so we are going to make to where A. You have to coin to do it in two hours or B. It will take you twice as long because we are "capping" the points and res... You could bet your next months salary a LOT of players (myself included) would be VERY angry.

    What if they did this with cargo fleets? After your tenth level 51 (or 65, or 71, depends on your level) cargo fleet you will no longer receive the "bonus" rep or alli points? You don't think players would get mad?

    I don't mind evolution of the game to keep it from stagnating, but I will not let them tell me how to play the game as well. Why? Because our two viewpoints on how to play the game differ greatly. They would rather I don't actually play long hours, they would rather that every player find ONE part of a BP then coin to finish it. They would prefer that I coin ALL of my fleets (builds and refits), they would rather that I just blindly throw my fleets at a target (damage be dammed) until I kill it... because after all, they sell resources and speed-ups for repairs.

    For previous raids if I remember correctly we never got bonus for completing a set.  So, I take it has they gave us this option to be able to get use to the new style of raid and difficulty.  Again, 2 raids now, they gave us time to adapt.  They are still giving us a bonus, just limiting the bonus.  They are not telling you that you can't continue to hit the targets.  No one is telling anyone that once you complete 10 sets of C you have to hit B's.

    I do get it very much....You are not getting a diminishing return on your targets you will still get the amount for each target you hit.  They never had to give us a bonus in the first place.  All this means for me is that instead of 25 sets of B targets, I will have to hit 35 sets if I want the new hull plus everything else.  I have no problem with that.  

    What will make it even worse is that within 5 minutes of the raid starting the forum will blow up on how hard everything is and they increased the level of difficulty.  

    "For previous raids if I remember correctly we never got bonus for completing a set." - They didn't have to, they tried to give an appropriate amount of points per target. It wasn't until they LOWERED the points for the target then gave the points back, calling it a BONUS, that all of this started.

    "Again, 2 raids now, they gave us time to adapt." - That is a load of crap. TWO raids... less than 60 days... that is not enough time to build "fleets" and refit "fleets" to "prepare" for this style of raid. If you coin heavily, maybe you could have one fleet and a couple of ship refits done. Besides, if you refit a fleet based on the first raid of this style, it would be almost useless now.

    "They are still giving us a bonus, just limiting the bonus.  They are not telling you that you can't continue to hit the targets.  No one is telling anyone that once you complete 10 sets of C you have to hit B's." - And THAT is the point. They are telling players how to play, and punishing players that would have normally kept playing. This is the "diminishing returns" thing all over again, just repackaged for this raid. What do you not get about this? I hit a target ten times, and the eleventh time I hit it... it is worth, at a minimum, HALF of what it was worth. That is crap, no matter how you try to spin it. I NEVER stated that anybody wouldn't let you keep hitting targets of your choosing, just that they would be worth less and that is counter-productive to getting players to want to keep hitting targets and playing the game.

    "I do get it very much....You are not getting a diminishing return on your targets you will still get the amount for each target you hit." - No, apparently you don't. It is NOT worth the same amount, the bonus goes away, less points is diminishing returns, the set is worth less.

    "They never had to give us a bonus in the first place." - This argument is almost laughable. Yes, once they reduced the points a player got per target, they had to start giving the "bonus" just to equal the previous point totals. 10 targets ='s a 1,000,000 points vs 10 targets ='s 500,000 points with a 500,000 "bonus" (it still totals 1 mill for ten targets).

    This new format? Do the 10 targets the first time, get 500,000 points + 500,000 "Bonus"... do the 10 targets a second time, get 500,000 total. Twice the work for half the points ='s crap. Period.

    "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, 
    but because he loves what is behind him" 

  • Sammy_H14
    Sammy_H14
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 1,214
    makowere said:
    Sammy_H14 said:

    Wow...Players will complain about anything, if it is not going their way.  Okay so they put a cap on it...no big deal.  First, if you are a lower level and you  believe you should have Tier 5 hulls, think again.  Your not even close to have them.  Second, so if I complete 10 B targets that means I get somewhere around 10 mil points.  Okay that gives me the points I need for 3 of the things I need and points left over.  So if I decide if I need the hull then I need to hit B set around 24 more times.  I am good with that.  Players have to remember there is always a reason for what they do.  

    Players have been complaining about not enough c targets cause upper level players are farming them from the lower levels.  So Maybe that is the reason.

    Maybe the reason is to start getting players to learn tactics, strategy, and fleet control.  If you are in the mid to upper level and can't hit B targets from the raids then you might want to look at how you build fleets. The game is going to evolve, if you are stuck in you rather have the game how it was two years ago, then maybe the game is not for you.

    They have told us a week in advance that there will be a new enforcer and some of its abilities.  So be prepare and adapt to it.

    If you think you deserve the same ability as a coiner, then start coining.  Remember they make the game free to you.  

    So, It is OK in your mind for you to grind out on a set for what you need to get top tier (sorry if you can only do B tier you are not ready for Top prizes), but it is not OK in your mind that a lower level player that has the time to put in, and probably the coin to do the same?

    First, I don't go after Top prize all the time.  My goal is always to improve the current fleets I have in my dock so that I can move up the ladder.  I am currently working on my fleets so that I can do the A targets, I am hoping with in the next 3 raids I will be able to.  Before I was able to do the harder stuff, I never asked higher level players to do any of them for me.  If I could not do it then I didn't need the prize.  And, yes if you put in the time and get points, why spend it on the top hull when you could use it to get the specials, weapons, or armor that you need to make your fleets better.  So that way when you have the right stuff you can build a good fleet and not build crappy ones.   I have watched players that I know spend the time and go after the top prize, thinking they will finally have the hull to improve their game.  But, they forgot the one thing, they need armor, weapon, and specials for it.  So when they build it and it is crap, they get pissed off and blame Kixeye for making everything so hard.  

    What is the magical level at which someone is ready for the top tier prizes? If I can put in 20 hours a day over the 4 days or week, should I not be worthy of taking the top prize?   There is never a magical level...it is about how you do your game and how you build your fleets.  There are to many copy cat players, they don't think for themselves.  I don't have a backlog of fleets builds cause I don't take every hull in the game.  I get the ones that are needed for my game and I make them work for me.  My DNX (which I got in the December raid) is my baser, Mercs (which are building) will be my prep and some FVF, and Rays (which I got in the Dec raid) will be built after the mercs.  Each of these 3 hulls gets me what I need.  Now once I have the rays done, then I will work on another baser fleet to have too.  It is all about selection.



  • Toruk
    Toruk
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 2,824
    edited 8 Feb 2014, 5:47PM

    CM Robot can verify this, but I think you all might be missing a point here.  after the cap  you do not receive the BONUS POINTS.  but you can still grind the C and B tiers for the normal points.  Doing B tier the 41 thru 45's on their own give out about 500K point total, with out the 500k - 750K completion bonus.   So you can still grind for the regular points,  you just will not get the completion bonus after completing sets after your 10th set is done.  I think the C tiers give out about 50K points by doing all 5 fleets.

    **** that giving me a set bonus for 10 times but the 11th taking it away means I get half of what I got before and I pay the same amount for repairs **** that ****. this is as studpid as when they had the bonus start high and go low not interested in getting shafted because i want to play/pay their raid longer and get more prizes.

  • Sammy_H14
    Sammy_H14
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 1,214
    Sammy_H14 said:
    Sammy_H14 said:
    Sammy_H14 said:

    Wow...Players will complain about anything, if it is not going their way.  Okay so they put a cap on it...no big deal.  First, if you are a lower level and you  believe you should have Tier 5 hulls, think again.  Your not even close to have them.  Second, so if I complete 10 B targets that means I get somewhere around 10 mil points.  Okay that gives me the points I need for 3 of the things I need and points left over.  So if I decide if I need the hull then I need to hit B set around 24 more times.  I am good with that.  Players have to remember there is always a reason for what they do.  

    Players have been complaining about not enough c targets cause upper level players are farming them from the lower levels.  So Maybe that is the reason.

    Maybe the reason is to start getting players to learn tactics, strategy, and fleet control.  If you are in the mid to upper level and can't hit B targets from the raids then you might want to look at how you build fleets. The game is going to evolve, if you are stuck in you rather have the game how it was two years ago, then maybe the game is not for you.

    They have told us a week in advance that there will be a new enforcer and some of its abilities.  So be prepare and adapt to it.

    If you think you deserve the same ability as a coiner, then start coining.  Remember they make the game free to you.  

    Yes, it is a big deal.

    What I (and others) are complaining about is the fact that Kix won't let us play and keep earning points at a reasonable level.

    This is exactly the same farce as the "declining bonus points" (the longer you play, the less points you will get for performing the same action) and everybody saw and knows just how well that worked. So Kix tries to repackage the same crap and sell it to us as something new and we get upset.

    I do lightly coin, I do build fleets, I do refit fleets, etc., etc. This isn't right. If I have the fleets to get every prize and I want to keep going until I get all of the prizes that are available to me, I should be able to without being penalized for continuing to play after I have cleared a tier 10 times.

    Starting a target with Reavers already shooting at you isn't a "strategy". "Here, take damage in the first SECOND of battle...", What kind of "strategy" is that? I have never begrudged Kixeye making money (past posts can confirm that), but there is a limit and plenty of players are now telling Kixeye that they have (yet again) crossed that limit/threshold.

    I use to get frustrated with this game, even had some of the same thoughts as others.  Then I started to read a little more to understand the game.  Improve my strategy.  I adapt to what they do, but I also don't go for all the high price toys all the time.   I always look at what they have coming and then make a decision do I need it now or can it wait.  My first priority is always get all the items I need to make my currents fleets and base better for my level.  It has been a long process for me and it has paid off, I took it in stages.  If they put a cap on, for me instead of complain about it, I make a plan on what I have to do to get what I need and make it work for me.  

    We have always had targets that started giving us damage as we entered the battle, go back to the old style military fleets.  Some of those as soon as you enter 3 ships land right on top of you and start pounding on you.  So we have seen it before.

    This game is going to keep evolving so we has players need to evolve with it or it will really get boring.  

    You are not getting it. I do improve my strategy, I do adapt, I don't always go for every prize available. But Kix purposely limiting me if I decide to try for more prizes is crap. Period. That is why so many players are complaining.

    Yes, we have had targets that automatically give us damage before, and again I will ask "What kind of "strategy" is that?". Just because they have done it before doesn't make it acceptable now, nor does it count as some sort of strategy to automatically guarantee damage to players fleets.

    I do not have a problem with the game evolving either. Telling the player base that you can only play so much then you will get diminishing returns for continuing to play is not an evolution of the game, it is illogical at best.


    Imagine what would happen if they did this in the FM? "We are tired of players auto-hitting 27's (or 34's) so... from now on, after your tenth time hitting a level 27 (or 34) Outpost it will only give you half the points and half the resources." I have my fleets set up a certain way to auto those targets and as I get better fleets, I will refit/swap out/scrap the lesser ones as needed. I can finish the Fm in under two hours with a little coin. Or if I am a little short on resources and have the time, I can auto for two days to finish. My Choice. If Kix suddenly decides that... yes, we give you three days to do the FM but we are tired of you autoing fleets so we are going to make to where A. You have to coin to do it in two hours or B. It will take you twice as long because we are "capping" the points and res... You could bet your next months salary a LOT of players (myself included) would be VERY angry.

    What if they did this with cargo fleets? After your tenth level 51 (or 65, or 71, depends on your level) cargo fleet you will no longer receive the "bonus" rep or alli points? You don't think players would get mad?

    I don't mind evolution of the game to keep it from stagnating, but I will not let them tell me how to play the game as well. Why? Because our two viewpoints on how to play the game differ greatly. They would rather I don't actually play long hours, they would rather that every player find ONE part of a BP then coin to finish it. They would prefer that I coin ALL of my fleets (builds and refits), they would rather that I just blindly throw my fleets at a target (damage be dammed) until I kill it... because after all, they sell resources and speed-ups for repairs.

    For previous raids if I remember correctly we never got bonus for completing a set.  So, I take it has they gave us this option to be able to get use to the new style of raid and difficulty.  Again, 2 raids now, they gave us time to adapt.  They are still giving us a bonus, just limiting the bonus.  They are not telling you that you can't continue to hit the targets.  No one is telling anyone that once you complete 10 sets of C you have to hit B's.

    I do get it very much....You are not getting a diminishing return on your targets you will still get the amount for each target you hit.  They never had to give us a bonus in the first place.  All this means for me is that instead of 25 sets of B targets, I will have to hit 35 sets if I want the new hull plus everything else.  I have no problem with that.  

    What will make it even worse is that within 5 minutes of the raid starting the forum will blow up on how hard everything is and they increased the level of difficulty.  

    "For previous raids if I remember correctly we never got bonus for completing a set." - They didn't have to, they tried to give an appropriate amount of points per target. It wasn't until they LOWERED the points for the target then gave the points back, calling it a BONUS, that all of this started.

    - Previous raids for me were the military targets.  Didn't get points.  

    "Again, 2 raids now, they gave us time to adapt." - That is a load of crap. TWO raids... less than 60 days... that is not enough time to build "fleets" and refit "fleets" to "prepare" for this style of raid. If you coin heavily, maybe you could have one fleet and a couple of ship refits done. Besides, if you refit a fleet based on the first raid of this style, it would be almost useless now.

    - I did it and didn't coin one fleet.  I built a DNX fleet as soon as I won it from the Dec raid.  Refitted my ARB to ED3 took eight hours. I refitted my SW's with SBF3.  So it is possible.  My BCX fleet didn't need to be refitted, it worked great the way it was.  Now since the January raid, I did refit it with new alloy armor I got, to make them better for this raid.

    "They are still giving us a bonus, just limiting the bonus.  They are not telling you that you can't continue to hit the targets.  No one is telling anyone that once you complete 10 sets of C you have to hit B's." - And THAT is the point. They are telling players how to play, and punishing players that would have normally kept playing. This is the "diminishing returns" thing all over again, just repackaged for this raid. What do you not get about this? I hit a target ten times, and the eleventh time I hit it... it is worth, at a minimum, HALF of what it was worth. That is crap, no matter how you try to spin it. I NEVER stated that anybody wouldn't let you keep hitting targets of your choosing, just that they would be worth less and that is counter-productive to getting players to want to keep hitting targets and playing the game.

    - They are not telling you how to play at all.  

    "I do get it very much....You are not getting a diminishing return on your targets you will still get the amount for each target you hit." - No, apparently you don't. It is NOT worth the same amount, the bonus goes away, less points is diminishing returns, the set is worth less.

    - Your not getting a Diminishing return.  A bonus is just that a bonus.  If the targets points were lowered each time then that would be a diminishing in return.

    "They never had to give us a bonus in the first place." - This argument is almost laughable. Yes, once they reduced the points a player got per target, they had to start giving the "bonus" just to equal the previous point totals. 10 targets ='s a 1,000,000 points vs 10 targets ='s 500,000 points with a 500,000 "bonus" (it still totals 1 mill for ten targets).

    - When they started this type of raid, they didn't have to include the bonus, you could have been doing the sets and only getting the 500,000.

    This new format? Do the 10 targets the first time, get 500,000 points + 500,000 "Bonus"... do the 10 targets a second time, get 500,000 total. Twice the work for half the points ='s crap. Period.

    - Then don't do it.


  • Topper5
    Topper5
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 1,986

    To be honest, it might be better after the 10th time through C depending on the "Massive Bonus" (one thing I've learned is that the term "Massive" is slightly overused hereabouts). At least you won't have to spend the last couple days trying to find 21s & 22s to finish sets.

    Right now its too soon to panic. Plenty of time to to do that next weekend.  :p

    In kix terms: 'slightly' means 90% less and 'massive' means 5% more.

  • Raymond mcvay
    Raymond mcvay
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 1,670
    edited 9 Feb 2014, 7:08AM
    Sammy_H14 said:

    "edited for length"


    - Previous raids for me were the military targets.  Didn't get points.  - Then you haven't been playing long enough to understand why people are mad? If you don't have any experience/knowledge in that area, why are you trying to argue about something that you don't understand?

    - I did it and didn't coin one fleet.  I built a DNX fleet as soon as I won it from the Dec raid.  Refitted my ARB to ED3 took eight hours. I refitted my SW's with SBF3.  So it is possible.  My BCX fleet didn't need to be refitted, it worked great the way it was.  Now since the January raid, I did refit it with new alloy armor I got, to make them better for this raid. - You did not do all of that in less than 60 days. That was my point to that earlier. If you are trying to say that you built one whole fleet (DNX) and refit two others (SW and BC) and refit an ARB in 60 days without coining, you are a liar.

    - They are not telling you how to play at all.  - You have a play-style, now take that and cut what you earn form that play-style in half or coin. That IS telling a player how to play the game.

    - Your not getting a Diminishing return.  A bonus is just that a bonus.  If the targets points were lowered each time then that would be a diminishing in return. - First of all, it is not even a bonus, it is giving the normal point structure back. If there were no bonus at all, nobody would play the raid. Second, You get a set amount of points for completing a task, next time you complete the exact same task, you get less, that is diminishing returns.

    - Then don't do it. - My point exactly, a lot aren't (or if they do, they will play a hell of a lot less than they would have normally).


    This was/is a discussion about the points cap. And again, no matter how you try to spin it, it is crap.

    "The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, 
    but because he loves what is behind him" 

  • 00zau
    00zau
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 6,403

    B tier averages 1.125 mil per run for the first five runs (500k per run, plus 500-750k completion), and 1.25 mil per run for the next five (750k + 500k). That's just shy of the 12.5 top prizes cost. Add in the 'massive' point payout for the 10th completion (which is likely 2m or so) and you'll be able to get the top prize without doing a single A tier.

    Kixeye doesn't want players just grinding C tier to get the top prize. That's pretty understandable. B tier is still a haven for people who want to get good stuff without coining. It's doable.

    My only issue is that you can pretty much only get the top prize with 10x B tier; you'll have to grind something else to get anything else. It would be nice if the limit was 12 or 15 instead. However, the 10x bonus might give enough points that this isn't an issue.

    (regarding the math. you only need ~600k extra points after 10x through B tier to get the 12.5 mil. Anything less than 750k can't possibly qualify as a 'massive' bonus.)

  • BloodRavenFavian
    BloodRavenFavian
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 8,212

    as a 44, i think this is entirely unfair. its bad enuff grinding hours after hours on C tier to get good stuff. which is doable, sure, but you just made it so i have to sit all day and farm. i havent spend money on this game, and i understand the f2p model, but hell, if this whole in-your-face must coin business is the norm now i'll simply walk away and get back into PC games more. i'll gladly spend money on concrete DLC that will last me a long time and is more fun.

    We are always watching. Quiet ≠ safe.

    image
This discussion has been closed.