Seige mort B only giving 7% ballistic resistance

Douglas Thor
Douglas Thor
Skilled Warrior
Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 327
I put compoun +33 on a triton. Now i have 33% ballistic resistance. So i added seige mort B which is supossed to have 10% ballistic resist. But now my total is only up to 40%.

What gives?
  • sinista
    sinista
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 1,752
    the bonus is multiplied not added
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  • Max Last
    Max Last
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 3,254
    second sticky from the top in the players guide section.


    Also, probably the most Frequently Asked Question to ever FAQ.
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  • DrJordano
    DrJordano
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 1,604
    sinista said:
    the bonus is multiplied not added
    Don't you hate that lol 
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  • Blazing_Darkness
    Blazing_Darkness
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 8,162
    It is multiplicative.

    It'll reduce the remain damage by 10%.
    So when compound reduces it by 33%, only 67% damage is dealt.
    Siege B will then reduce that by a further 10% (10% of 67% is 6.7%) leaving only 60.3% damage being dealt. In other words a combined total reduction of 40%.
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  • Halvar
    Halvar
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 1,101
    edited 20 Aug 2013, 11:21PM
    working as it should then. it's not additive. the 10% from the mortar is from what's left, if that makes sense. 33% already reduced means there's 67% going through, 10% of that is 6,7% and that is, after roundings, what is added to the 33% you already have. if you were to add another 10% from another source that would give you a total of 46% (33% + 10% of 67 + 10% of 60) and so on. you can never become totally immune unless kixeye destroys the game by handing out a special that gives exactly that, 100% resistance in one go. 

    edit: here's a useful link to a sticky in the player guides.
    http://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/244556
  • Douglas Thor
    Douglas Thor
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 327
    thank you all
  • Delta88
    Delta88
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 422
    It shouldn't be that way though. Because, for one thing, there is zero base ballistic resistance on the Triton. The ballistic resistances are from outside sources. I.E. D4-C, Compound specials, Layered specials, and weapons that add ballistic resistances. So it should not be multiplicative. But hey, it's Kixeye math. Who really cares if its right or wrong in their eyes??
  • Twainguy
    Twainguy
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 145
    Delta88 said:
    It shouldn't be that way though. Because, for one thing, there is zero base ballistic resistance on the Triton. The ballistic resistances are from outside sources. I.E. D4-C, Compound specials, Layered specials, and weapons that add ballistic resistances. So it should not be multiplicative. But hey, it's Kixeye math. Who really cares if its right or wrong in their eyes??
    This is exactly how it should work.  If it worked differently it would enable 100% or greater resistance.  A single dread with layered armor and 4 siege mortar Bs would have 106% ballistic defense.  Obviously gaining health from ballistic damage would be a bad thing.
  • Delta88
    Delta88
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 422
    Twainguy said:
    Delta88 said:
    It shouldn't be that way though. Because, for one thing, there is zero base ballistic resistance on the Triton. The ballistic resistances are from outside sources. I.E. D4-C, Compound specials, Layered specials, and weapons that add ballistic resistances. So it should not be multiplicative. But hey, it's Kixeye math. Who really cares if its right or wrong in their eyes??
    This is exactly how it should work.  If it worked differently it would enable 100% or greater resistance.  A single dread with layered armor and 4 siege mortar Bs would have 106% ballistic defense.  Obviously gaining health from ballistic damage would be a bad thing.
    Well then it needs to be worded differently. Thats where people get confused. It's all about how its worded in the lab.

  • Twainguy
    Twainguy
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 145
    Delta88 said:
    Twainguy said:
    Delta88 said:
    It shouldn't be that way though. Because, for one thing, there is zero base ballistic resistance on the Triton. The ballistic resistances are from outside sources. I.E. D4-C, Compound specials, Layered specials, and weapons that add ballistic resistances. So it should not be multiplicative. But hey, it's Kixeye math. Who really cares if its right or wrong in their eyes??
    This is exactly how it should work.  If it worked differently it would enable 100% or greater resistance.  A single dread with layered armor and 4 siege mortar Bs would have 106% ballistic defense.  Obviously gaining health from ballistic damage would be a bad thing.
    Well then it needs to be worded differently. Thats where people get confused. It's all about how its worded in the lab.

     
    It has worked this way since they first added specials.  There is a sticky in the player guides section created by Swag way back to clarify how it worked.  The 2nd response in this thread included the link to it.
  • Delta88
    Delta88
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 422
    I understand that. But when it says +66% for the armor special and +10% for added armor bonuses in the lab, one would think it stacks. But like I said, its some form of outerplanetary math they use for it. It should be made clear in the lab of how it works. Not just in the guide.
  • CurlyPubes
    CurlyPubes
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 823
    I guess the OP's never built a ship before if he doesn't understand how resistance stacks.
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  • 00zau
    00zau
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 6,403
    edited 21 Aug 2013, 3:31AM

    Delta88 said:
    I understand that. But when it says +66% for the armor special and +10% for added armor bonuses in the lab, one would think it stacks. But like I said, its some form of outerplanetary math they use for it. It should be made clear in the lab of how it works. Not just in the guide.
    It's not new math. And in fact, it works exactly how it is stated. It reduces damage by 10%, but they reduce in sequence. If I have two 10% resists, and take a packet of 100 damage, the first works as stated, reducing the 100 to 90, then the second works as stated, reducing 90 to 81. If bonuses simply added together, the second bonus would be giving an ~11% boost to defense instead, and each subsequent bonus would provide a larger effective reduction. And you'd be able to get over 100% defenses. This build (Link) would have over 100% defenses against both missiles and ballistic, and 75% explosive defense. It would essentially immune to any weapon but mortars in a base attack. And you could simply make a second fleet with a near identical build with 100% explosive defense instead of one of the others. This second build (Link) can have 100% defenses against two types, and 93% against the third (it would have 93% defenses after all D95-D weapons, Comp-X, and one armor panel of each type. the immunities are based on what you put in the two open slots), allowing it to simply crawl through any base with basically no damage taken (it can absorb 230,000 damage of the type it isn't immune to, probably missile). And last, but by no means least, would be the ultimate base defender. Take the new guardian, put comp-X and nine D95-Ds on it, and one of each defense armor. You're now immune to all non-concussive damage (45% defense from the Ds, 20% or more from inbuilt resists, 33% from Comp-X and 10% from the armors adds up to 108%). Of course, the attacker can have 100% explosive resist and ignore you completely, so they can still walk into the center of your base and take out all your buildings.

    So yeah, there's a very good reason that math works the way it does.
  • Mika Soutukorva
    Mika Soutukorva
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 340
    woudnt it be awesome that they would just add bonuses straight up could build ships that gain hp back from weapons with +100% defence
    lvl. 61 
  • beel78
    beel78
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 8,187
    woudnt it be awesome that they would just add bonuses straight up could build ships that gain hp back from weapons with +100% defence
    not really then there would be no challenge and no skill and almost anyone with multiple armor slots on a drac hull with compound armor or alloys and siege weapons that gave resistance buffs could walk into ANY base.  Make it immune to missile and ballistic and put a crap load of hails (if the base has morrts).... no point in playing
  • Hitman007
    Hitman007
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 8,990
    This is how it is meant to work, please read this thread here http://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/244556/p1

    "Greetings Captains,

    There’s been some confusion as to how stacking bonuses works in Battle Pirates, so let’s clear that up.

    First, there are two types of bonus systems: additive and multiplicative. Most (though not all!) bonuses in Battle Pirates are multiplicative. Here's how a multiplicative system works:

    Imagine that I have a Battle Barge, which has 2 slots for special items.

    Let’s say my Battle Barge fights an enemy with an explosive attack that deals 100 damage per hit. With no resistances, my ship would take 100 damage for every successful attack. Not awesome.

    To make my ship tougher I put Ablative Armor I on my Battle Barge, which provides 33% Explosive Defense. Now every successful attack from this explosive weapon only deals 67 damage. This is because 33% of the 100 damage is mitigated by the Ablative Armor I. Awesome.

    I decide to put Zynthonite Armor DI-X on my Battle Barge for another 10% Explosive Defense, in order to make it even more resistant to explosive weapons. I expect that each attack from this explosive weapon is now going to only deal a measly 57 damage, but instead each successful attack is dealing 60.3 damage!

    What gives?

    Remember what I said about bonuses using a multiplicative system? The bonuses aren’t applied all at once. Instead, imagine them being applied one at a time.

    First the attack deals 100 damage…
    BUT WAIT! There’s an Ablative Armor I here. Remove 33% of that damage.
    Ok, then the attack deals 67 damage….
    BUT WAIT! There’s a Zynthonite Armor DI-X here. Remove 10% of THAT damage.
    Ok, then the attack deals 60.3 damage.
    Fine, 60.3 damage it is.

    Hope that helps - you'll have to experiment to find out which systems are additive and which are multiplicative."
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  • Mika Soutukorva
    Mika Soutukorva
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 340
    vink! vink! dont scrap the mcx fleets guess that everyone is going to full on dnx protection in their bases now 
    lvl. 61 
  • Major Kessler
    Major Kessler
    Master Tactician
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 2,124
    vink! vink! dont scrap the mcx fleets guess that everyone is going to full on dnx protection in their bases now 

    Yup - and just when everyone has completed their uber-mortar fleets for attack and defence we get a new missile package for attack and defence - time to start building vanilla MCX hulls with thud 1....


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