Damage Protection Rule Changes

  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Myko wrote: »
    Sounds to me like, if they keep the buddy bubble..but allow where there is a pause in-between use, then that would work better. Like If I bubble my friend for 2 days, when it pops..he has to wait 2 days to get another. Problem solved!! As far as the crap talking in chat, when they start the alliances, they can have alliance only chat (button) and a world Chat (button)..but in this game almost everyone talks crap..even if they were destroyed or not..lol but if all these rules and new features are going to be added..then Multi accounts should be banned, especially if they start alliances..there will be no difference than a person staying under a bubble..than having there multi account protecting each of their account 24-7

    Would still be abused and we both know this. In between 2 day bubbles all the person has to do is get someone to do damage to his base that amounts to 25% or more. Easy to stay in a bubble.

    Their proposal is actually the better solution as it forces the player to make a choice. Heal or help. One offers protection, the other opens the person up to reprisal. Play smart and ANY player can do both.
    Rumseeker
    Lvl 34
    Sector 361
    ID 1122925
    Browser: Firefox
    OS: WIndows 7

    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Tag32
    Tag32
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 1,714
    Anyone with any time-length of bubble would be popped if you initiate combat against a rival player fleet or base.

    Why did you indicate "any time-length of bubble", instead of "Anyone with a bubble"?
    Is a coined bubble classified as a "time-length" bubble?
    If your not paying for what you use, your not the customer.... your the product.
  • Myko
    Myko
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 755
    Rumseeker wrote: »
    Would still be abused and we both know this. In between 2 day bubbles all the person has to do is get someone to do damage to his base that amounts to 25% or more. Easy to stay in a bubble.

    Their proposal is actually the better solution as it forces the player to make a choice. Heal or help. One offers protection, the other opens the person up to reprisal. Play smart and ANY player can do both.


    but my point is, if they start alliances..multi accounts will take the place as bubbles, to get rid of 1 you have to get rid of both..then it would be a level playing field...also I dont agree if I get flattened and I try and help defend a friend that is getting attacked, I take a chance of losing my bubble/that part alone will cause people to not play anymore..
    Level: WTF


    Bend over, here comes the NUKE


    (ALL ABOARD) The short bus will be leaving soon..you know you want to lick the windows
  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Tag32 wrote: »
    Why did you indicate "any time-length of bubble", instead of "Anyone with a bubble"?
    Is a coined bubble classified as a "time-length" bubble?

    Yes because a bought bubble is either 24, 168 or 672 hours.
    Rumseeker
    Lvl 34
    Sector 361
    ID 1122925
    Browser: Firefox
    OS: WIndows 7

    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Myko wrote: »
    but my point is, if they start alliances..multi accounts will take the place as bubbles, to get rid of 1 you have to get rid of both..then it would be a level playing field...also I dont agree if I get flattened and I try and help defend a friend that is getting attacked, I take a chance of losing my bubble/that part alone will cause people to not play anymore..

    Sorry but people cannot simply have their cake and eat it without some downside.

    It would be like you getting into a fight with my friend Jacob. I come along and expect that I can kick you in the balls, and not get my own beating.
    Rumseeker
    Lvl 34
    Sector 361
    ID 1122925
    Browser: Firefox
    OS: WIndows 7

    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Roland Bullock
    Roland Bullock
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 931
    Rumseeker wrote: »
    Sorry but people cannot simply have their cake and eat it without some downside.

    It would be like you getting into a fight with my friend Jacob. I come along and expect that I can kick you in the balls, and not get my own beating.

    lol perfect analogy
    Desert_Warfare
    Level 67 Originated in 142
    Currently in 191
  • Burke
    Burke
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 1,005
    It may be helpful to put the existing rules next to the proposed rules for comparison (below). This highlights the general reduction in the length of a bubble a player receives for a given amount of damage. With that reduction, it does not seem appropriate to also increase the 25% threshold, as some of these comments suggest.

    The people complaining (like here: http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=255384&p=2264764&viewfull=1#post2264764) that removing 10-hit buddy bubbles will drive mid-level players from the game because they need their buddy bubbles or they won't be able to play: (1) you are missing the point that removing the 10 hit bubble is necessary to prevent higher level players from crushing mid-level players and then hiding in their own buddy bubble and (2) the majority of the long-term players do not seem to have had any problem sticking with the game without the need to live in a permanent buddy bubble.

    Finally, I am not in love with the idea that attacking a player's fleet will cause you to lose a bubble. However, I can not say at the moment that I strongly dislike it, either.
    [Proposed System August 24, 2013]
    Proposed New Damage Protection Rules
    Under the new system, there will be four different instances (two different situations) in which a player’s base would receive Damage Protection:
    • When a base has suffered 25% - 49% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 12 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has suffered 50% - 74% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 24 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has suffered 75% - 100% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 36 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has been attacked 8 times in four hours (but suffered less than 25% damage), the base will receive 1 hour of Damage Protection.
    For the last rule of Damage Protection, we feel it’s still necessary to allow players the one-hour of protection for those that are repeatedly getting their docks hit with rockets and/or snipers (SFB3). Also, if you attack another player’s fleets or base, the number of attacks made against you within the past four hours will be reset to zero and remove the bubble from your base (if already under Damage Protection).

    [Existing System, April 15, 2011]
    A base will enter Damage Protection if any of the following occurs:
    • A base is new and is less than level 3.
    • A base is less than 7 days old.
    • A base gets 10 attacks in 24 hours, 2 days Damage Protection is activated.
    • A base is damaged to less than 50% health [>50% damage], 36 hour Damage Protection is activated.
    • A base is damaged to less than 75% health [25-50% damage], 18 hour Damage Protection is activated.
    • A base gets 4 attacks by the same user in one hour, 1 hour Damage Protection is activated.
  • robert_c
    robert_c
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 41
    BRAVO I say this has been too long coming.
  • sandhill
    sandhill
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 1,700
    I think it's been needed for a long time....But just so everyone knows I also feel that it is just kixeye policy "Make spend more money"....Kixeye doesn't care one way or another about BP it is just chump change to them right now, they are working up to the big bucks.
    player ID 56643, start date 28 march 2011.....Lvl 103.... BLACK PIRATES FOREVER
  • PapaDeath
    PapaDeath
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 127
    NOTE: Make sure you've read the rules for posting in this forum: http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=185189 . Also be sure to read this post in it's entirety before you reply. Any posts that do not comply with the forum rules, will be promptly removed.

    Greeting Captains, we’ve received substantial feedback from the Community that the current Damage Protection rules foster an environment that encourages “Buddy Bubbling.” We gone back to the drawing table and developed a new Damage Protection System that we hope balances the game for everyone. Read the details below and we look forward to reading your thoughts.

    Why change the Damage Protection rules?
    With the current set of rules, players are able to indefinitely hide behind the damage protection bubble by using the “Buddy Bubble” exploit. Obviously, this is not the desired game experience, and a tweak to the rules can prevent it.

    Proposed New Damage Protection Rules
    Under the new system, there will be four different instances (two different situations) in which a player’s base would receive Damage Protection:
    • When a base has suffered 25% - 49% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 12 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has suffered 50% - 74% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 24 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has suffered 75% - 100% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 36 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has been attacked 8 times in four hours (but suffered less than 25% damage), the base will receive 1 hour of Damage Protection.
    For the last rule of Damage Protection, we feel it’s still necessary to allow players the one-hour of protection for those that are repeatedly getting their docks hit with rockets and/or snipers (SFB3). Also, if you attack another player’s fleets or base, the number of attacks made against you within the past four hours will be reset to zero and remove the bubble from your base (if already under Damage Protection).

    Q: I need to buddy bubble so I can build/upgrade my buildings; how will I make any progress?
    A: There’s no challenge in a game where players are immune to penalties. Suffering delays to build times is part of the game; however, there are things that you can do such as relocating to a sector that does not have as much base hitting, or join an alliance where other players will take you under their wing.

    Q: Will you be changing how long it takes for certain buildings to repair like the Dock or the Launchpad?
    A: Currently there are no plans to change the repair times for any buildings; however, after the new Damage Protection System goes live, we will closely monitor the situation and see if any changes need to be made.

    Q: My Dock is going to get pummeled all the time; how will I be able to launch my fleets?
    A: If players are plotting against you, recruit some allies or join an existing group. Players will be much less likely to continuously attack your dock if they know that your allies will retaliate against them. There’s strength in numbers.

    These rules need tweaked as far as i am concerned

    1st Rule needs tweaked. There are people out there that only get on for a short time a day. So if they have DU4 platforms that takes 7h to repair that means you have to log on with in 5hrs of being hit and most of us sleep for more than that a day. That will leave Bases vulnerable if all they do is prep you for lets say 40% hitting like 50 or 60% of the a bases defenses. To fix this you should just keep the 18h bubble. I seen no problem with it.
    2nd and 3rd rules are ok
    4th rule is useless
    1) 1h bubble is not long enough to repair the lvl 9 or 10 docks
    2) if your getting hit 8 times in 4hours just to get your dock hit then the one hitting you is stupid if you have a lvl 8+ docks. Lvl 8 Dock takes 1h to repair so you should only attack 1 time an hour. so only 4 hits in 4hs is needed not goin stop the dock hitting. Lvl 9 Dock takes 2hs, and 4hs for lvl 10 dock. A med bunker buster does just about destroyes a lvl 8 Dock. A Large Bunker buster just about destroys a lvl 10 Dock with no fortifications. With this we know that even at full fortifications lvl 9 and 10 docks when hit by a Large Bunker buster will only need 5hits in 4hs.

    The FvF hits making you lose Damage Protection I see bad results of this
    1) If your base just got a major hit that means you CAN'T help others defend their base from being lvled or someone else will just come take another 500% of your resorces unless you dont have any res.
    2) This will leave you open to being hit by the enemy and you CAN'T hit back cause that will lose your Damage Protection so if you want to be a bully all you have to do is lvl the base and sit right out side their base and hit every fleet coming out and you know you will not be hit back.

    My Ideas to solve the problems in this proposal;

    1) 1st rule change it to 18h of damage protection
    2) make the repair times to the Dock at 10m for all lvls. This way the ones that just want to be bullies will have to hit them every 5m and 8 hits later they will have an 1h bubble. This will also keep the strategy of hitting the dock to keep them from changing guard fleets or spamming instant repair ships to keep you from getting in when they are on line.

    With these 2 tweaks i think most if not all peeps will like it.
    Lvl 53, Sector 172
    Missing BPs: Compound Panel 3, 4, 5, Cluster warhead 3, and Blitz Drone Module 1
  • Doombunny
    Doombunny
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 1,332
    Swag,

    If this is the case, then the alliance mechanics and revised level system need to go in BEFORE you make any changes to damage protection. While I understand that kixeye is losing money under the current DP scheme, allowing these changes to go through will likely have a chilling effect on mid to low-high level play and may result in decreased player activity. After all, there are only so many salvs you can hit before you get bored with it and if you cant engage in FvF combat without losing your bubble, you aren't getting damaged and not being tempted to coin your repairs.

    With the removal of the attack button, it has become harder to discourage (not defend, discourage) people from attacking your mates or your alliance. These new bubble changes will make it easier to prep bases and lock people down with greifing tactics, some of which have been described in this thread.

    As an interim solution, I suggest removing the 10-hit/48 hour DP bubble while leaving everything else as is until you bring alliance mechanics and the new leveling system online.

    Side suggestion - would it be possible to color-code the DP bubbles to indicate how you got them? whether by percentage of damage, number of hits, or coined? Might be interesting to see from the player's perspective.
  • Capt Scrubsy
    Capt Scrubsy
    Greenhorn
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 20
    I don't see how this would change anything? If I wanted a bubble under this new proposed rule then I would simply set out a bunch of worthless buildings so that I get a bubble off of a simple rim job. Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see how it would change anything.

    There is one part that I could see having a negative effect on game play and that is the part about a person losing damage protection for attacking another player's fleet. Just seems like this proposed rule would tie the hands of the player under damage protection. This would likely send the person away from the game during the duration of the bubble of whence that person may just find another game to play. At least under current rules the person under damage protection can at least still have FVF to entertain them while their base is being repaired.

    What if a player under damage protection sent a fleet to mine a resource and let's say another player attacked his mining fleet. Would this player then lose the damage protection on their base because another player attacked his mining fleet?
  • Roland Bullock
    Roland Bullock
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 931
    I don't see how this would change anything? If I wanted a bubble under this new proposed rule then I would simply set out a bunch of worthless buildings so that I get a bubble off of a simple rim job. Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see how it would change anything.

    There is one part that I could see having a negative effect on game play and that is the part about a person losing damage protection for attacking another player's fleet. Just seems like this proposed rule would tie the hands of the player under damage protection. This would likely send the person away from the game during the duration of the bubble of whence that person may just find another game to play. At least under current rules the person under damage protection can at least still have FVF to entertain them while their base is being repaired.

    What if a player under damage protection sent a fleet to mine a resource and let's say another player attacked his mining fleet. Would this player then lose the damage protection on their base because another player attacked his mining fleet?

    It says right in the original post you have to attack another players fleet to lose your bubble.
    Desert_Warfare
    Level 67 Originated in 142
    Currently in 191
  • Lt_Caine
    Lt_Caine
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 331
    Nicely done...Now people can't bubble up and go killing miners and guards without opening their base to attack.
  • Wulfson
    Wulfson
    Greenhorn
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 10
    So, 25% of damage to the base itself, including walls? Hmm. So if someone sends in a missile that hits most of the walls, and they all get damaged, will that cause 25% damage to the base, and then give them a bubble for 12 hours?
  • Axton_Tully
    Axton_Tully
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 6
    Well, it looks like "Comaraderie is dead in this game. There is no Valor in Bullying. and the Integrity is gone too. From the looks of the new rules ...it is going to suck for the people trying to grow. You get bubbled and can't retaliate.....If you're bubbled, you can't help your mates... It's just not right. I have read most of the forum pages. The ones that are for this, are level 31+ (and most are 34)
    It seems to me, when you play a game, there are rules. You get used to the rules.You stick to the rules. People have been playing with these rules for over 2 years. Now, the Whining Bullies have all pieces needed, they want rules changed (in Their Favor)...This is not a game I want to play. The game is changing for the Bigs, Bullies & Coiners (BBC)...and once again GREED wins. A leve
    l 34 grew while playing by present rules. Why change now to make it easier for them to attack.
    If this rule is implemented...I will give up my base and find something else to do.
    . Yes, I have grown. By the present rules,..( really doesn't effect me much ) Yet,it seems inevitable, my level 31 base is going to be a low level now. Many 30 and under bases are just going to give up and not play by idiotic rules... It will extend the time to build (and reduce time of playing). Also, your base is going to be "repeatedly" pummeled.
    If this is implemented...they had better implement:
    1. No HIDING under Drac Bases or make Drac Bases smaller with a limit of the number of fleets inside....
    2. Once fleet engages (Fires upon base, not just entering) base the RETREAT Button disappears...
    3. Option to tag (attack in open water) moving fleets (within a time limit of attack "maybe 30 sec to 1 minute" ).
    If they want war... let's make it war...Hitting and destroying but, can't hit back...seriously. Fair is Fair.
    Enjoy your coin KIXEYE...I may be done with you.
    If I decide to stay...it looks like it'll take me a year to build base hitters....
    So, I won't be able to play anyway. Good Luck Mates.
    and let the "BBC" know: Good Luck Hitting all the empty bases.
    "Friendly Bubbles" were the only defensive option for lower base levels
    Let's promote BULLYING....just what are you teaching kids today anyway.
    END OF RANT
    Be good....or be good at it...........
  • Myko
    Myko
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 755
    Well I think im right as far as what I have posted, so we will see in the end how this works out. I believe that for 1 with the already allowed Buddy Bubble being tooken away will decrease game play, and cause a negative affect on new players..especially when all the old players were allowed to use it..for 2 no-one is going to help anyone in the game, if they have been flattened, causing more players to quit..because the flattened party is not going to want to un-bubble to help...for 3 if alliances are added b4 or after the bubble change, its going to cause more problems..as people will then use their alts to protect themselves..causing more whining in the forums, also causing less players and even more alts
    Level: WTF


    Bend over, here comes the NUKE


    (ALL ABOARD) The short bus will be leaving soon..you know you want to lick the windows
  • Roland Bullock
    Roland Bullock
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 931
    Myko wrote: »
    Well I think im right as far as what I have posted, so we will see in the end how this works out. I believe that for 1 with the already allowed Buddy Bubble being tooken away will decrease game play, and cause a negative affect on new players..especially when all the old players were allowed to use it..for 2 no-one is going to help anyone in the game, if they have been flattened, causing more players to quit..because the flattened party is not going to want to un-bubble to help...for 3 if alliances are added b4 or after the bubble change, its going to cause more problems..as people will then use their alts to protect themselves..causing more whining in the forums, also causing less players and even more alts

    Good riddance to the players who don't want to be hit. And what are you going on about alts? There are people using alts to do the same thing now, atleast under the new rules they will have to live in their bubble and not bother other players.
    Desert_Warfare
    Level 67 Originated in 142
    Currently in 191
  • Jacko122
    Jacko122
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 150
    YAY! Thankyou kixeye.
    **** is not retaliation.


    Im on top of the world at 20,17 <- Come at me Bro! :cool:
  • Gary_M
    Gary_M
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 362
    It's really simple. Get rid of the 48 hr bubble for ten and make it so actual damage to turrets and other structure have to occur to get a bubble.

    And crippling players that just got their base damaged from retaliating against their attacker is another idea that makes me scratch my head and wonder if the idea people at Kix even play the game. What if I have a base fleet killer and have the opportunity to kill the player that just took out my base, or enough of my turrets to require down time to repair? I just have to sit there impotently as he sails away or risk having my base taken out again while it's fatally weakened?

    I'm really curious. Does whoever comes up with these ludicrous ideas play BP like us daily players do? I spend 2-3 hours after work in the evenings and several hours each day on the weekends. I'm sure most of the active posters in this thread do as well. Do the members of Kix's "think tank" do as well?
    Grimnir - lvl 56
  • Myko
    Myko
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 755
    Good riddance to the players who don't want to be hit. And what are you going on about alts? There are people using alts to do the same thing now, atleast under the new rules they will have to live in their bubble and not bother other players.


    or the alts can attack each other and keep themselves bubbled, and transfer there resources back and forth..yep that will be really fair, or even attack other players and then bubble each of their alt accounts..wont change much would it, thats why alt accounts should be banned with the bubble system being placed into affect..or leave like it is, and the reason I say this..is do you know how many coiners have alt accounts? there is tons..where they hide all the resources that they receive from attacks and then they bubble the account and attack it only when they need resources..Alt accounts are worse than buddy bubbling if you ask me..not cool attacking someone thats hiding all their resources in another bubbled account
    Level: WTF


    Bend over, here comes the NUKE


    (ALL ABOARD) The short bus will be leaving soon..you know you want to lick the windows
  • GATOR
    GATOR
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 84
    if you doing that one hour for the docks - mine lvl 10 4 hours repair. Mind you I am not whining i could be and have been hit repeatedly on 1hr 1 min window and could down for days with sniping. What are UR plans to counteract that?????????????????????
  • Roland Bullock
    Roland Bullock
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 931
    Myko wrote: »
    or the alts can attack each other and keep themselves bubbled, and transfer there resources back and forth..yep that will be really fair, or even attack other players and then bubble each of their alt accounts..wont change much would it, thats why alt accounts should be banned with the bubble system being placed into affect..or leave like it is, and the reason I say this..is do you know how many coiners have alt accounts? there is tons..where they hide all the resources that they receive from attacks and then they bubble the account and attack it only when they need resources..Alt accounts are worse than buddy bubbling if you ask me..not cool attacking someone thats hiding all their resources in another bubbled account

    I agree with you on alt accounts. What I'm saying is that its going to be more difficult to stay in a bubble with the new system so why leave it the way it is?
    Desert_Warfare
    Level 67 Originated in 142
    Currently in 191
  • GATOR
    GATOR
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 84
    i will go further than last post saying that I'm a lvl 32 and I have in my sector still use the bubble which I have don't for about 6 months. But I would stupid if didn't mention dock snipers. For me if ya want come take my res I don't care but a player with the ability to come snipe my every hour is not making the situation better only worse.
  • Roland Bullock
    Roland Bullock
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 931
    GATOR wrote: »
    i will go further than last post saying that I'm a lvl 32 and I have in my sector still use the bubble which I have don't for about 6 months. But I would stupid if didn't mention dock snipers. For me if ya want come take my res I don't care but a player with the ability to come snipe my every hour is not making the situation better only worse.

    I could easily snipe your dock every hour under this current system for 10 hours if I wanted too. Dont see how this is going to make it easier to snipe your dock.
    Desert_Warfare
    Level 67 Originated in 142
    Currently in 191
  • Myko
    Myko
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 755
    wont help either if your still in repair mode and your bubble already popped, but alot of people arent thinking that far ahead
    Level: WTF


    Bend over, here comes the NUKE


    (ALL ABOARD) The short bus will be leaving soon..you know you want to lick the windows
  • forgedblades
    forgedblades
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 66
    I think this is mostly fine with one clear exception.. "Also, if you attack another player’s fleets or base, the number of attacks made against you within the past four hours will be reset to zero and remove the bubble from your base (if already under Damage Protection)." I think/feel that getting into fleet battles while bubbled should NOT drop your damage protection. Want to go hit a base then yes, but Fleets should still be fair game.
  • Donkey84
    Donkey84
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 131
    get rid of the 4th one about the 8 hits, just remove it that is what they are using to buddybubble each other and 8 hits isnt going to stop this it just needs to be removed.
  • -Khaos-
    -Khaos-
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 122
    This is the BEST IDEA you all have come up with in a long F'ing time! This would solve the BUBBLE B!TCHES problem we have in many sectors! How soon can this be put into place? Only down side would be fleet fighting pops your bubble? That seems a little ridiculous!
    PurePain-Khaos-
    Level - 58
    ID - 1003922
    Alliance - PUREPAIN
    Rank - Council Member / Base Crusher
  • toby1
    toby1
    Greenhorn
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 6
    I got hit 3 times by same person within 15 minutes he couldnt get in so 3rd time OP and Dock sniped....no BBL but a 7hr repair. Yes this if fair. NOT !!!
    BBL should atleast cover repair time and if base leveled the 36-48 hrs.
This discussion has been closed.