New Level Structure (Part 2)

  • Burke
    Burke
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 1,005
    jrscdelsol wrote: »
    If you bot learn to read and look at the first post



    Look at the 2 bits in red where swag says 40+ is a free for all but lvl's 40-44 can still attack/be attacked by Levels 35-39

    Just keep digging. Swag does not say "40-44 can still attack/be attacked by Levels 35-39".

    Swag said:

    (1) "Attack range remains at +/- 5 Levels up to Level 39." Note that it is silent as to whether or not level 40 may attack bases +/- 5 levels from level 40 and above that he says specifically "The +/- 5 Level range is remaining, but would no longer apply to players level 40 and above (currently level 29)." So he directly contradicted your statement that level 44s can attack 5 levels down.

    (2) "Levels 40-44 can still attack/be attacked by Levels 35-39 due to the +/- 5 rule still in effect for those lower Levels." So levels 39 can attack 5 levels up.

    Seriously, you make me want to sell you some collateralized debt obligations.

    [This has since been cleared up. I will say I was confused. See here: http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=251468&p=2230887&viewfull=1#post2230887]
  • Paul Preece
    Paul Preece
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 540
    wayne28 wrote: »
    My only question would be, are you going to increase map speeds of ships? The idea that I can go +/- 2 sectors is awesome, just the time to get that far can be a bit ridiculous with the fleets required to kill a good base.

    We have already discussed ways of decreasing travel time between sectors. We have some cool ideas and will share in F3 when they're ready.
    Paul Preece
    KIXEYE co-founder / Battle Pirates creator / tear drinker
    Please KIXEYE you must hurry, I can see it now, wives and girlfriends around the world are planning "dates" and "snuggle" time. Please save us from our significant others.
  • Delta_PRIC
    Delta_PRIC
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 154
    This is horrible.

    I am level 29 and your telling me that ive been farmed like crazy and now i cant hit anyone except higher than me. I can still get rimmed and not hit them.

    THIS ISNT FAIR.

    why shouldnt i be able to hit someone 5 levels lower, after all its part of the learning process. undert this a level 29 wouldnt have to do anything for defense until they hit over the 40 threshold.

    How am i supposed to level up when i cant hit anyone (Because i have had to focus on defense for so long, i havent built a good base fleet which is needed for a level 31+).

    I am against this completly why not keep the plus 5 - 5, and then after 31 is fair game upwards and only hit those 3 levels lower until 31

    I.e level 31 hit lowest 28 and any up
    level 32 hit lowest 29 and any up
    level 33 hit lowest 30 and any up etc

    I dont think i am going to continue to play if this level 29 upwards is introduced.
    I, for one, do not hit bases for resources. Resources are laughably easy to get once you have even predator subs. Many others think the same way.

    Also, I prefer not to hit a person's dock if I can help it. Unless I think they're a douchebag.
    dsnutz wrote: »
    The ones I have come across, the dock is in a corner, guess the thinking is you will spare the dock. Better think again!!!:D
  • Paul Preece
    Paul Preece
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 540
    For clarification: Level 35-39 can still attack +5 levels, Level 40-44 can still attack -5 levels.
    Paul Preece
    KIXEYE co-founder / Battle Pirates creator / tear drinker
    Please KIXEYE you must hurry, I can see it now, wives and girlfriends around the world are planning "dates" and "snuggle" time. Please save us from our significant others.
  • dennis houtman
    dennis houtman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 60
    I did pay attention :)
    note the text in red
    re-read and tell me where was i wrong

    re-read the line under that line and u know where u are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • GigaPirate
    GigaPirate
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 5,046
    I'm pretty sure that players in the 23 - 28 level range would disagree with you.

    Check - the players who rose to level 28 in half the time it used to take because they didn't have to fight for their resources and who have never even attacked a base are now realizing they didn't learn how to play the game along the way are sad that their over-inflated level status has made them a prime target for people who had to claw their way to level 32 because back in the day you actually had to play the game for yourself.
    "we have never banned on IP address, we ban cheaters. If you cheat you will be banned." CM QRich
  • RainMakerX
    RainMakerX
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 800
    Could we get some more bookmarks for the new expanded territory? By the time I bookmark my alliance, that I need to help defend I don't have many to mark enemies.

  • Xx_JR_THEBOSS_TATxX
    Xx_JR_THEBOSS_TATxX
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 102
    Great idea thanks nice 1
  • jrscdelsol
    jrscdelsol
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 7
    Burke wrote: »
    Just keep digging. Swag does not say "40-44 can still attack/be attacked by Levels 35-39".

    Swag said:

    (1) "Attack range remains at +/- 5 Levels up to Level 39." Note that it is silent as to whether or not level 40 may attack bases +/- 5 levels from level 40 and above that he says specifically "The +/- 5 Level range is remaining, but would no longer apply to players level 40 and above (currently level 29)." So he directly contradicted your statement that level 44s can attack 5 levels down.

    (2) "Levels 40-44 can still attack/be attacked by Levels 35-39 due to the +/- 5 rule still in effect for those lower Levels." So levels 39 can attack 5 levels up.

    Seriously, you make me want to sell you some collateralized debt obligations.

    Re-read what you wrote at point 2 and you will see it says that lvls 40-44 can hit 5 lower
  • Vancouver Jimmy
    Vancouver Jimmy
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 1,553
    Honestly I think Kixeye is missing a great opportunity by changing the leveling system to a modified leveling system. The first one didn't work at high levels and the only reason a modified system will work is because base defenses become maxed out around lvl 32 currently.

    To be honest I would suggest Kixeye have a system to evaluate a base that is not based on 'experience'. How much resources you have collected really has little to do with base strength when trying to 'level' the playing field for attacks. Here is my alternate base attack system.
    - Your base 'strength' is determined by defense points. You get different amounts of points for different tower levels and tower gun levels and base defending fleet variables. Layout of base gives no points.
    - ANYONE can attack your base!!! Yes! HOWEVER, the fleet strength attacking you is limited to 'a few' levels above your 'base defense level'. This allows high level players to hit anyone...if they design a fleet with a limited strength. Kixeye already measures fleet levels so it's easy to just measure base strength levels and find a 'fair' limit to the strength allowed to attack. Reality is that fleet levels would have to be calculated much more carefully and take into account guns and specials used.
    - Your experience in the game increases the 'minimum' base defense level you can have. Basically to stop players from having zero towers and only letting very new players attack them. The minimum level would be enough to force people to build towers and use a base defense fleet or get farmed easily.

    The advantage of allowing anyone to attack anyone is very powerful. It gives everyone more to do! It gives high level players MORE to do but limits there advantage against players with less. Lower level players would not be farmed...because the strength of any attacking fleet would be controlled by kixeye. Lower level players can attack higher levels as well! They can't get in...but they could do rim jobs and dock nuking. There would be issues with lower levels having less land and high level players with long range advanced technology...and other issues I'm sure. Play testing needed extensively. There shouldn't be one 'farm level' for players....because everyone can attack everyone (with a fair level fleet).

    If Kix's is going to change the attack level system I say change it to one that open attacking up between all players. It would break down the current barriers between different level players and make the game much more interactive.
    The uncensored Battle Pirates Forum...

    http://tinyurl.com/d5bhmhs
  • Shiba
    Shiba
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 3,575
    I really like the 30+ can attack anyone, because to be honest besides the fleets, a lvl 30s base should be very close to a lvl 35s base tech wise.


    Concerning the +/- 2 sectors range now..


    IS there going to be anything done with the time it takes to travel this distances. I know that some of my longer revenge hits have been over a 30 minute sail time, and that was within the 850 units. If you are opening this up like this, maybe a rather large map speed increase should be considered. I enjoy base hits, but loathe the time to get there..
  • Damnation-n-Hellfire
    Damnation-n-Hellfire
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 890
    You know Ive been pretty hard on Kixeye at time and at times rightly so but after seeing all these posts abt what levels can hit what levels when its spelled out pure and simple in the OP maybe just maybe I can understand how frustrated they get sometimes
  • Paul Preece
    Paul Preece
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 540
    Hank Stu wrote: »
    Well kixeye anyway you look at it ... going through with this change will still be effectively removing any player lvl 35 or higher from the game... The claim that increasing the distance a player can travel will fix the lack of attackable bases is silly... the way it reads to me is this ... Instead of having you attack bases and enjoy the game we have created for you the player we want you to set sail in the morning so that by the time you get home from work your fleet will be at the target you intend to hit. Thank you for enjoying our game for 10 minutes a day. I'm an in sector attacker and proud to be one i prefer to play this game not spend my time watching my pixels move across a rendering of the ocean.... In my opinion you have fixed nothing and improved nothing all you have done is added more wait time to an already tedious waiting game.

    The only thing this changes for you, if you are a high level player, is hitting bases so low that you have no business hitting them. What's the phrase... try picking on someone your own size?
    Paul Preece
    KIXEYE co-founder / Battle Pirates creator / tear drinker
    Please KIXEYE you must hurry, I can see it now, wives and girlfriends around the world are planning "dates" and "snuggle" time. Please save us from our significant others.
  • Carlos Spicyweiner
    Carlos Spicyweiner
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2011 Posts: 231
    I'm pretty sure that players in the 23 - 28 level range would disagree with you.

    All of the current level 30+ lived thru it, only difference is we didn't cry about getting hit. Your supposed to get hit, it's the only way you will learn how to build a base. Now all these players will think there base is solid until they hit level 40 and then they will get leveled again and cry some more. Does this mean we should expect another re-leveling in a few months to coddle them a second time?
  • dennis houtman
    dennis houtman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 60
    NOTE: Make sure you've read the rules for posting in this forum: http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=185189 . Also be sure to read this post in it's entirety before you reply. Any posts that do not comply with the forum rules, will be promptly removed.

    Greetings Captains! We received lots of good feedback for the proposed new level system and attack ranges post. Again, the goal of updating the player level system is to provide a more accurate representation of each player's experience and power. It's great to see so many players giving constructive feedback on the game. We've taken your feedback into account and now have a new and updated system for attack rules in conjunction with the new player level system.

    Attack Distance Modification
    A lot of you were concerned over the number of attackable targets within your Level range. This is a valid concern and when we broke this down further we found that a related area of the game, attack distance, also played a key role in providing good targets. So we've decided to scrap the 850 max distance attack rule and replace it with a +/- 2 Sector rule. The 850 attack distance penalized players who were at the top or bottom edge of a Sector and also stopped a full Sector from participating in Sector wars. The new +/- 2 Sector attack rule means that all players in a Sector will be able to attack up to 2 Sectors up in either direction. This increases the number of valid targets and sets the stage for even larger Sector vs Sector wars.

    TL;DR:
    • The 850 max distance for attacking rule is being removed
    • A new +/- 2 Sector attack rule is being added

    Updated Attack Ranges
    Along with the new distance rules described above, we're updating the attack range rules to further increase the number of valid targets, especially for high level players. The +/- 5 Level range is remaining, but would no longer apply to players level 40 and above (currently level 29).

    Attack Range Summary (note all Levels are the new Levels):
    • Attack range remains at +/- 5 Levels up to Level 39.
    • Players Level 40 and above can be attacked by any player Level 40 and above.
    • Note, Levels 40-44 can still attack/be attacked by Levels 35-39 due to the +/- 5 rule still in effect for those lower Levels.
    • FYI, Current Level 30 will be Level 40 in the new system

      For clarification: Level 35-39 can still attack +5 levels, Level 40-44 can still attack -5 levels.

    . Thanks.

    now u can see
  • wesker
    wesker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 5,473
    sounds a hell of a lot better then the last one but still a little confused
    Decimate the Weak

    Ships Won: who cares you will see them :D 
    BP-ID: 1824740....lvl 72

  • Stuart Millington
    Stuart Millington
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 9
    For clarification: Level 35-39 can still attack +5 levels, Level 40-44 can still attack -5 levels.

    Thank you :-)
  • Damnation-n-Hellfire
    Damnation-n-Hellfire
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 890
    Hank Stu wrote: »
    Well kixeye anyway you look at it ... going through with this change will still be effectively removing any player lvl 35 or higher from the game... The claim that increasing the distance a player can travel will fix the lack of attackable bases is silly... the way it reads to me is this ... Instead of having you attack bases and enjoy the game we have created for you the player we want you to set sail in the morning so that by the time you get home from work your fleet will be at the target you intend to hit. Thank you for enjoying our game for 10 minutes a day. I'm an in sector attacker and proud to be one i prefer to play this game not spend my time watching my pixels move across a rendering of the ocean.... In my opinion you have fixed nothing and improved nothing all you have done is added more wait time to an already tedious waiting game.

    I really dont understand your post at all if you are currently lvl 35 in this system you will still be able to attack those who are lvl 30s and up in the current system. What changes?
  • Burke
    Burke
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 1,005
    jrscdelsol wrote: »
    Re-read what you wrote at point 2 and you will see it says that lvls 40-44 can hit 5 lower

    Hmmm. Well, the quotes from point (1) do say that the +/- 5 level range doesn't apply to players level 40 and above, which seems to contradict the quote from point (2). In any event Paul did confirm that the +/- 5 level range does apply up to level 44, which should avoid a problem with some players being able to attack others who could not respond. Thanks for clearing it up, Paul (see here http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=251468&p=2230810&viewfull=1#post2230810).

    I still sort of want to unload some collateralized debt obligations.


    [And quoting the newly edited version of the original post does not mean the earlier version was clear on this point. The clarification is not present in the following quote of an earlier version (note the timestamps, revised less than an hour ago) of the original post: http://forums.kixeye.com/showthread.php?t=251468&p=2230593&viewfull=1#post2230593]

    [This has since been cleared up. I will, however, say I was confused.]
  • n0s_speed
    n0s_speed
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 3,636
    Well, this is certainly much better! Instead of a bandaid the level disparity problem gets a field splint. Should hold up for the most part.

    I understand that Kixeye probably doesn't want to take a more technical approach to setting levels as a direct function of power as relates to player assets. Whatever. This system is better than what we have and therefore a step forward.

    An open bracket after level 30 means that level 34s like me see effectively no change. Especially since anything under level 31 is likely a farm anyway.

    One thing i would ask for the sake of constructive input: would you guys be open to establishing some sort of reward system for leveling up? Currently (and especially the lower levels) leveling up just means you can get your hat fed to you by an entirely higher class of player. (congratulations on hitting lvl30! says the 35...coords pls?).

    Some games give players little incentives at level milestones (to be fair BP does do this to a limited degree by giving higher level players a larger looking base at certain level milestones which is a "prestige" type reward).

    It can be as modest as you like, or as significant as you like, or even random. Just something to make a player salivate a little when he's about to ding over to a new level.

    something like every 10 levels you get:
    -free res
    -a couple measly gold
    -a modestly equipped level appropriate forsaken hull
    -an officer
    -a picture of swag giving you a thumbs up

    thoughts?

    i totally agree with the reward system.....although it might be easier with just the GOLDS. let's say 100-250 golds each time you level up. simple enough to implement.

    -resources are too easy to get these days.
    -officers - not everyone needed another
    -forsaken hull - might get too completed, not everyone will like the free hull design.
    -picture of swag giving the thumbs up, people might print that and sit on his face
    In Game Name: n0s_speed
    Alliance: DOA
    Level: 66

  • FADM_Longshaft
    FADM_Longshaft
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 104
    This makes better sense. Although the travel times are longer (removal of 850) - can run an errand or two then come back! ha.
    Alliance: Independent
    ID: 354352
    Currently: Your Mom's House
    Visits: 1,2,7,9,10,19,34,37,53,55, 60,66,74,115, 116,118, 134,168,187,190,199,203,257,269,339,342,343,367,380,438,458,460,475,487,495
  • captainbrian
    captainbrian
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 14
    The only thing this changes for you, if you are a high level player, is hitting bases so low that you have no business hitting them. What's the phrase... try picking on someone your own size?
    Technically at his lvl (35) the only change will be ONE MORE lvl to attack (29's). not sure why anyone 34+ would complain as this does not even effect them other then the number they see on their base.
  • urnightmare
    urnightmare
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 172
    + 1...............
    Katja Lov wrote: »
    I just read the original post for the 3rd time and I still dont get it ( and I am fairly inteligent person). Sure I will play along. I will be level 48 by this new rule and if I did understand correctly: lvl 40 will be able to attack me but I wont be able to attack them, and then the level 10 is something and I had apple pie for dinner.

    I dont understand why are you complicating this so much that you are gonna come up with a formula to calculate gravity of a black hole. You made this mash instead of reducing the gap from +/-5 to +/-3, open up so that you can travel to more sectors and be done with it. +/-3 levels makes so much more sense and you will have less pissed off people and people quiting playing. You seriously think that people will travel for an hour to get to a target, battle for 5 minutes, turn around travel an hour to go back home.

    Please stop complicating things when you can fix this with so much less hassle. +/-3 instead of this. Simple.
    BP was a much better game back in the day of black water and FF ruled the high seas...just saying....
  • Tiny Teets
    Tiny Teets
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 623
    I started playing during BI4. I am currenty level 29 and 1.5 mil away from level 30.

    I am use to players 5 levels above hitting my base. I understand any base can be smashed. I can usually hold my own against players below level 34, usually. If I'm online and can watch the attack I learn from it and can make adjustments. With players level 30,31, 32, and 33 I can usually deal enough damage that even if the smash my base they generally don't come back. It cost them to much.

    Most level 34 players can walk into my base and smash it at will. I've learned to keep my WHs low to discourage their attacks but theres really not a lot I can do to defend myself from them. It's OK, it's part of the game.

    I dont worry about building killer fleets right now except for my newly won Battleship which I intend to use for base defense. My base defense come first at this stage of the game for me.

    My current base;
    OP=5
    All Turrets= 3
    Advance Lab= 10
    Hull Lab= 10
    Weapons Lab= 8 [Currently Upgrading To 9]
    Intell Lab= 3 [Base defense Comes First]
    War Acadamy= 6 [Base defense Comes First]
    Dock= 8 [Base defense Comes First]
    Shipyard= 1

    I have DU4 and have upgraded my walls to level 4, [no builder needed]. I intend to upgrade all my turrets to level 4 as soon as my Weapons Lab level 9 upgrade is finished.
    Right now I live off my Subs and SeaWolfs. I have two levi fleets I use for base attacks.

    Now in 1.5 mil I will be level 30 and all higher players can attack me. If this is the stage of the game where I return to FARM status then so be it. bring it on, I will grind through it like I did when I hit level 19 until I got OP5.

    I understand that the line must be drawn somewhere. If it was level 31 then all the 31s would probably not be to happy.

    But in kixeye's opinion, and in all the players who read this, is a fresh level 30 equiped and ready to take on the level 35s and above? If so then i must be doing something wrong. i must have stumbled gravely during my advancement.

    But please consider raising the points required to level from 29 to 30. At the point where all high level players can attack you you should have sufficient time to build and reseach to have a fighting chance to survive. That's all i'm asking for, a fighting chance.
    ROBNTHROB wrote: »
    First off I was talking about what I said..
  • faceplant007
    faceplant007
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2012 Posts: 182
    Our goal is always to improve your gaming experience, so we welcome all feedback, including criticism as long as it is constructive and respectful. Thanks.

    lmao you may accept it but then you do nothing about it after you are told something su**s
  • fireship4
    fireship4
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 91
    I thank with this new system you will see more insector hitting due to travel time
    fireship4
  • Hank Stu
    Hank Stu
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 29
    Ok i must have misread the post... still not convinced this system will be an improvement but at least the revision is better then the previous idea.
  • n0s_speed
    n0s_speed
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 3,636
    Tiny **** wrote: »
    I started playing during BI4. I am currenty level 29 and 1.5 mil away from level 30.

    I am use to players 5 levels above hitting my base. I understand any base can be smashed. I can usually hold my own against players below level 34, usually. If I'm online and can watch the attack I learn from it and can make adjustments. With players level 30,31, 32, and 33 I can usually deal enough damage that even if the smash my base they generally don't come back. It cost them to much.

    Most level 34 players can walk into my base and smash it at will. I've learned to keep my WHs low to discourage their attacks but theres really not a lot I can do to defend myself from them. It's OK, it's part of the game.

    I dont worry about building killer fleets right now except for my newly won Battleship which I intend to use for base defense. My base defense come first at this stage of the game for me.

    My current base;
    OP=5
    All Turrets= 3
    Advance Lab= 10
    Hull Lab= 10
    Weapons Lab= 8 [Currently Upgrading To 9]
    Intell Lab= 3 [Base defense Comes First]
    War Acadamy= 6 [Base defense Comes First]
    Dock= 8 [Base defense Comes First]
    Shipyard= 1

    I have DU4 and have upgraded my walls to level 4, [no builder needed]. I intend to upgrade all my turrets to level 4 as soon as my Weapons Lab level 9 upgrade is finished.
    Right now I live off my Subs and SeaWolfs. I have two levi fleets I use for base attacks.

    Now in 1.5 mil I will be level 30 and all higher players can attack me. If this is the stage of the game where I return to FARM status then so be it. bring it on, I will grind through it like I did when I hit level 19 until I got OP5.

    I understand that the line must be drawn somewhere. If it was level 31 then all the 31s would probably not be to happy.

    But in kixeye's opinion, and in all the players who read this, is a fresh level 30 equiped and ready to take on the level 35s and above? If so then i must be doing something wrong. i must have stumbled gravely during my advancement.

    But please consider raising the points required to level from 29 to 30. At the point where all high level players can attack you you should have sufficient time to build and reseach to have a fighting chance to survive. That's all i'm asking for, a fighting chance.

    at level 28-29, you should've had all plat4 towers. i'm not sure which route you took, but certainly not the same as everybody else.

    now, with the quota BI events, people under level 30 were able to get prized hulls.

    in which a level 30, should have an even playing field as a level 35.
    In Game Name: n0s_speed
    Alliance: DOA
    Level: 66

  • Viper Six
    Viper Six
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 210
    I said this before if this is put into effect the higher level player will stop playing due to the lack of targets then lack of interest kixeye is caving to low level players who don't want to spend money on the game and in the process pushing the players who do out the door! Everyone is saying yea I like it now but they haven't changed anything they just worded it differently. As a level 36 right now I would only be able to hit a level 35 that's about half way to level 36 and hit level 36s as long as there not close to leveling up to 37 so that allows me to only hit about 30 to 40 people and that's if we all move to the same sector.
    ID#488526 Level 126
  • laxrules25
    laxrules25
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 11
    The less travel time is SUCH a good idea cause when i get my full hh fleet and wanna hit bases i dont want to be able to go watch a movie while my fleet is traveling.
This discussion has been closed.