5x D51-A (90% Accuracy & 3 reload time)
Thoughts? Obviously the key here is the first 2-4 shots. With the high accuracy and low reload time you best bet is try try and rush them before they turn and kite like weiners.
BTW, kiting is not for weiners. It is intelligent gameplay. Unfortunately the current weapon mechanics make Thud HB3 very overpowered at the moment.
> Bloodshed on my arms warm as the feeling <
> Fresh killings never cold but felt so appealin <
> Death in ones eyes illuminates in moon lights <
> I stand here a monster and it all feels so right!
Even if you have a weapon that does 1000x the damage, it is useless if it never gets fired...
Thud HB3 is overpowered because there is NOTHING that effectively hits it except itself. A skilled micro will decimate any fleet before taking damage.
Getting a little concerned now, especially after building several of these, what did you mean by "at the moment" ???
You're wrong. As I've said previously It's all about the speed variations between ships. A LA/engined fortress/levi fleet will hunt down any standard wolf fleet and there is no micro in the world that can save you once you get herded into the edge of the map. You can either use drac missiles to reduce the range difference to only 7 yards which is nigh on impossible to kite with at those speeds or you can go for all out speed with the siege cannon boost and literally squash any thud fleet before it even has time to turn.
In short, please desist giving out these outdated and inaccurate statements when you not only lack the experience with up to date game tech but clearly don't understand the mechanics involved with the recent game additions. It's exactly this type of whiney scrub syndrome that often gets things changed before they've had chance to balance themselves out.
The Almighty Spack
Spack is actually my Tyler Durden.
The game is always evolving...
Everyone knows how to stop an SW with Thud HB3. The problem is, very few people have the tech to pull it off.
Spack. I'll say this clearly and audibly for you. You are a freakin dunce. Yes you are. Here is your stupidity on a platter:
LA 2 requires Adv Lab 8 or 9, LA 3 requires Adv Lab 10.
Engines 2 requires Adv Lab 8 or 9, Engines 3 requires Adv Lab 10.
Drac weapons of any kind (but particularly the higher level stuff) is harder to get your hands on than any forsaken tech. That goes for both the Drac Missiles and the Drac Seige Cannon.
HB 2 requires Adv Lab 9. HB 3 requires Adv Lab 10.
So, tell me, which of your brilliant ideas is even possible for anyone short of Adv Lab 8? NONE. Every single small timer or even mid level players stands no chance whatsoever because all the counters require high level tech. In fact, I haven't even mentioned the hulls. Sea Wolv requires Naval Lab 9 and FF requires Naval Lab 10. How in hell are players supposed to use either of those to compete with the SWs? At best you can use Levis, but then you need Naval Lab 8,9 or 10 for DU 2,3 or 4 so that you can armor up as well as them.
So as you CLEARLY continue to miss. You are required to have MULTIPLE buildings to a minimum level of 8/9 just to be able to piece together something that will hurt an SW. Everyone that fails these standards has only one option: Turn and run like ****.
anything else you may as well invest in oil because oil makes things slippery
TOME: -Harbinger Pampei- Coming Soon.
No, this would be bad. The mid level players who don't have access to high level tech are at a severe disadvantage. Creating more advanced tech to 'solve' the problem only solves it for the higher level players. And as it stands there are already high level alternatives. What we need is alternatives for people with low level tech. A weapon whose base range matches the Thud HB3. Easy way is to just limit the HB3 to the same as Cut range.
Dunce? Why the hell should players 3 months behind me in terms of forsaken tech be able to compete with me? They have no right even trying to battle my advanced fleets. **** right they should turn and run. In the mean time they should prioritize their base to stop my main fleets getting in (which is more than possible with the two extra turrets). After that they should rush to get the required tech. As for as your assumption about drac tech being too hard to get. I know people with the 20 pattern achievement who hadn't even bothered upgrading their Intelligence lab. During the event it was ridiculously easy to get patterns for anyone with half a brain. My intel lab is 2 days off level 10 and I still don't have the 20 drac pattern achievement despite mashing more salvage than the rest of my sector combined. It is pure RNG and favours the little guy as much as the big fish.
Now as far as the advanced lab goes. I have a friend who at level 26 had an advanced lab of level 9. Now at 27 he is well on his way to HB3 thud wolves and yes his base has sent4/howie4 and is nigh on impossible for me to break into despite only having **** platforms. So someone I am months and months ahead of can effectively lock a level 32 out simply by prioritizing the correct tech. He doesn't even have a fortress yet and can happily keep his warehouses maxed just farming salvage. Now please tell me some more how the current drac and forsaken tech situation gives an advantage to higher levels. It clearly gives an advantage to smarter players that plan properly. Welcome to strategy games you clueless chump!
The Almighty Spack
Spack is actually my Tyler Durden.
Then make it a lower level research so the small guys can get it. You could also do that as well, for some reason having a canon that shoots further than a missile baffles me.
Are you not listening? I'm not saying a mid-level player should be able to sink the HB3. I'm saying that being unable to cause an ounce of damage is the problem. Pit a micro pro with a massive Cut fleet against any non-HB3 fleet and they will win. But with the right opponent they will also take damage. That is how it SHOULD be. But with HB3 this comparison cannot be made. With all mid-level tech players there is NO WAY AT ALL to cause return damage on a skilled HB3 user.
As per Drac weapons... seriously. What about people who weren't around for the event? What about people (like me) who worked 8 hrs on the day of the event? What about people who can't be online all the time or work so much they can't do loads of salvage runs? By even arguing the case of Drac weapons you are arguing the case of player activity. That should never be a prerequisite for being able to stop an overpowered weapon. No useful member of society has the time to invest for this...
"Welcome to strategy games you clueless chump!" - You clearly need to learn the definition of the words "higher levels". Level 25 is a higher level. But besides that, Adv Lab 9 is a higher level as well. If you manage to obtain Adv Lab 9 early, then you've reached higher level status even if you aren't as high of a level as the common person who has Adv Lab 9. So it is your turn to get a clue pal. And at Adv Lab 9 he can only get Eng2 and HB2. So he's still a long shot from HB3. It takes weeks without coins to upgrade and research HB3. So for the time it takes him to get there he's still gotta run like hell from all the arses with overpowered Thuds. So even at level 25 and smart strategy we've still got a guy that needs to turn tail and bolt when Thud HB3 enters the arena. Aren't you a dumbass... you've just proven that fighting Thud HB3 before level 25 is impossible. Way to have your arguments work against you.
That's not a problem in the slightest. Fleet I churneded out in the first few weeks of playing should get whooped.
Really, you think it was balanced that a fleet I made in my first day or so of playing was able to defeat the mightiest fleet around? That is not the way it SHOULD be it's the way it WAS. It was completely imbalanced and stupid. You're living in the past. Catch up and shut up. Please stop calling for the days of old when they were clearly unfair to everyone.
You had a good month's notice to make time at a weekend and the event went on over two days. On top of that you hadn't even bothered farming salvage before the event and now you're whining the blueprint system is unfair? Perhaps if you'd taken part in the salvage farm at any point to a significant degree you'd be in a position to comment. You didn't therefore your opinion's on the subject are irrelevant because the simple fact you haven't put in the effort required and now you're acting **** hurt because you've fallen behind. It's just another case of whiner jealousy. Catch up already!
How? A level 25 has less than 10% of my experience. You can get level 25 within a couple of weeks of playing. How is it fair a level 25 should be able to even get a look in with my fleets? The simple fact is, it isn't and as you've just stated a level 10 with cut mars can punish my base killing fleet if they catch it.
The Almighty Spack
Spack is actually my Tyler Durden.
I'd go with HB over eng or layered armor. If you are faster with eng 3, but dont have the range... then pointless. If you have layered armor, but dont have the range or speed, you will be kited and killed. HB3 is best option... as they can't kite your maras if you have the same range as they do.
(1) Even 3rd world countries have the ability to purchase the high tech that is available in 1st world countries. They might have a harder time getting their hands on it, but they sure as heck can match our tech through money or theft. Just because they are not as far along as we are does not mean they can't hurt us. Consider how many fighter pilots have gone down over the middle east. They don't have anywhere near the capabilities of the American air force but somehow they are inflicting casualties. So don't give me this "Homos Neanderthralis couldn't lay a finger and us" bullcrap. Regardless of how far back an enemy is, they can still at least wound us. There should be no weapon in the game that is so overpowered it cannot be beat by any means whatsoever other than those equal to it.
(2) What fleet are you talking about? Making Cut LBs and killing Hydras FFs? Your comparison is bullcrap. A smart shipbuilder does not make FFs that are defeated by LBs. We're not talking about tech from different eras like the 1600's battleship vs the USS Kickass. All ships researched in this game are same era. They just have different sized weapon slots and weights. So an LB SHOULD be able to harm an FF. Naturally with the severe weapon and armor disparity the FF will win. If the FF is suited improperly then it might not. But ultimately everyone has a chance to engage skill. With HB3 there is no skill. A pro micro could suit up any kind of fleet he wants, but without HB3 equivalent tech he won't even scratch the hulls of his opponents regardless of ship type.
To use your own example: What if someone used coins to buy HB3 when they just unlocked Marauders? Throw 3xThud4, HB3 and who cares about the armor. Nothing will touch this badass little ship. Worse yet, this sick thing is instant repairable! Then some other sad sap with no access to a credit card has to play for 6 months to unlock a few things that might give him a fighting chance...
(3) Are you freaking serious? You think that having a week's notice means that I can suddenly take a day off work? Why would I be so stupid. I can easily make over $100 in that shift alone. If I'm going to toss such a thing to the wind I'd rather buy FB creds with it and target my spending rather than HOPE that I get good blueprints. You've got some very poor logic.
That aside, you are forgetting that there are tons of players who have jobs. Should we all take time off work so that we can play this game better? Go home. You've been schooled and you know it. i'm not jealous of people with blueprints. I could care less. I've been behind for months, always catching up. If it ain't one thing it's another. So regardless of what I have to somehow acquire, I'm always working towards something. And that is how the game ought to be. How boring it will be when I have nothing left to work towards. I'm not jealous, I'm happy. Something challenging that will take forever to do. My argument against blueprints is that because they are so hard to get they should not enter into conversation regarding counters to HB3. They just aren't readily available enough to consider them. They are an outlier.
(4) You are still making the incorrect assumption that levels are reflective of age. They are not. They are reflective of how much you've done. Someone pro could easily drop their account and make a new one, have tons more experience than you but be playing some small little level 20 account. Still think they shouldn't have an edge against you? They have more experience. There are a number of strong people who got bored and made multis for the hell of enjoying the beginning stages of the game again. They know micro, base building, ship building, etc. They should not be completely disabled from hitting another fleet because they haven't done enough tech research. And the same should hold true for all the people who are playing that this is their first account. Maybe we got a wise guy that checked the forums and read up on how to play the game. Checked out all the threads and put it to use before doing the typical newbie thing.
Have you played any other games? Just because a unit is smaller and weaker does not mean it won't do anything to a bigger ship. In WC there are wee little units that might die in a moment's notice against tanks but they still do a bit of damage. In ByM you can store any non-flying monster in the bunkers and they'll hurt attacking monsters. A Pokey can hurt a DAVE (not much but it can).
What HB3 has effectively done is introduce a situation whereby you can purchase (or build) units that can't be hit, like flying monsters. So that you just sit around and look helpless and wait for the battle to end so you can begin repairing it. That is basically what is going on here. We may as well have subs that can only be hit by a certain kind of weapon. Ah heck, let's have the aircraft carriers after all...
It's time for you to face someone who knows how to use it. I don't care how many noobies you've sunk. A micro like me would never be caught in your cross-hairs. Whether you use Cuts or mortars or something shorter range, you'll need the Engines to catch up. I have Eng2 atm so you are already at a disadvantage. Cuts are about 9 range behind on HB3 so you'd never hit me. And I don't care what kind of armor you have, you'd have to try something ridiculous like FFs with DU4 x 3 just to live long enough to take any real shots at me. And tell me something: Is it really worth the repairs? Building ships specifically to die to SW Thud HB3s that take 5-9hrs to repair? Most SWs, even with DU4 aren't going to take more than an hour to repair the whole fleet. Then they are back out there.
But of course we're forgetting something: Naval 10 is a pre-requisite for FFs... so that throws that out the window. How many mid-level players have Naval 10? So that throws out the previous conversation. You can't load a Levi with enough armor to last. But let's suppose you can. Naval 8 on that one, and then DU what? DU4 requires Naval 10 and OP5. So that isn't an option. How about DU3? That requires Naval 9, so let's stick with Naval 8 so DU2 is the best. Also Tit3. I seriously doubt you can put on enough armor with that trash to survive SW Thud HB3s.
Now I don't care who has jobs or who couldn't make the revenge event because of whatever reason. I have both a regular job, a family and numerous other distractions. I managed the event just fine because I planned for it and judging by the massive turnout I'll assume the vast majority did the same. As for your dig about me not having played any other games? Let's just say I'm playing flash games because I can do so in a way that doesn't affect my hectic working and social schedule. I've been playing online games most of my adult life and I'll be willing to wager a lot longer than you. I could start flashing around my relative gamer tags going back to the 80's but I think that would just be overkill.
The main point though is that the current game equilibrium is just fine. There exist counters to Thud HB3's for the vast majority of regular players who have planned effectively to do so. You happen not to be one of those people because you deliberately chose to avoid collecting Drac tech. Don't you feel stupid now despite me telling you months ago how easy they were to get and you claiming they were irrelevant or to hard to even bother trying to get? It just seems like you're crying for a nerf like every other inexperienced nitwit now.
I suggest you create a perfect little bubble around you where you used to be reasonably good and stick to playing with those high level 25s of yours *snicker*
The Almighty Spack
Spack is actually my Tyler Durden.
I tried making a post about that and it was shot down. Advanced Thrusters would be amazing for Missiles.
Prior to HB3, every tom **** and harry could build a bb fleet with cutlasses and go out and kite anybody with anything else to the bottom of the sea. The favorite target, was miners who were afk. Such skill they showed!!! If both fleets had cutlass, and both where guiding their fleets, both fleets were pretty much destroyed, and a random miss would be the difference between a win or loss for either fleet. More skill?? When the hb3 was introduced, bb cutlass fleets were everywhere, they required not much resources to build, not much skill to use, (if you did not have the skill, practice on Salvage until you could control them) and not much research to build, they were the most popular simply because they outranged everything except Mortars, and everyone knew you kept moving to stay out of range of the mortars. Simply put like most of the players, they give the most benefit with the least amount of effort in the game, if it takes a little effort whine that its too tuff, and maybe the devs will make it easier.
Thuds are nothing, weak, the only thing that makes them an issue is the hb3, which requires the highest research level in the advanced lab. And why shouldn't most powerful weapon combination not be the one that requires the highest research.
Now its getting to the point that every tom **** and harry, is rolling out cookie cutter seawolf fleets with thud/hb3 combos. the "Micro Pros" (still makes me laugh) are now using them instead of cutlasses and they are doing the same thing as the old bb/cutlass fleets.
The only real difference and cause for all this whining is that for too long, people who though they were skilled and mighty, had it too easy, they could put a little effort, bang out a cheap ship, built with cheap research and cheap weapons and kite afk miners, and any other fleet without cutlasses to the bottom of the sea. It was easy, cheap and gave them something to pat themselves on the back for, and gave them a good solid stroke to the old ego. Taking out a fleet of levi or ff mortar ships, gave them bragging rights for a week, everybody patted them on the head and said what a master player they were.
Truth is, in this game the only skill you have is in designing a fleet that can take on whatever fleet your going against and coming out a winner, your role during the battle is minimal at best. You tell the ship where to go, it does the rest, if you built it best it wins. If you loose to many, time to refit, cause you need to build it different. If you do not have the skill to build a winning fleet, try the forums, someone will post the next great cookie cutter fleet and tell you how to drive it. The real skilled player is the person that designs that cookie cutter fleet and uses it to beat down all comers until they copy it, and then designs the next fleet to beat the one everyone copied.