Base Is Unable To Defend vs 3 Types Of Fleets

rexerxxx
rexerxxx
Greenhorn
Joined Oct 2018 Posts: 2
Just wondering if its just me or is the Base unable to defend properly vs 3 fleet ranges, example you peek a players base , see what turrets are in place, then re-enter base with the stronger fleet that can take out that players base setup. The base now has no way to set up in response to the players fleet preference in time to protect it self. Im not sure how to fix this as the base defender has his hers hands tied as there is no way to defend against 3 fleet choices that the attacker has. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated, cheers
  • June Jones
    June Jones
    Greenhorn
    Joined Nov 2017 Posts: 5
    base defense is yet...another KIX facade...they dont want u defending ...they want u attacking. Working on ur base is a waste of time...we ALL see it....
  • bigbawg
    bigbawg
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 250
    been saying this for years

  • bigbawg
    bigbawg
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 250
    is this in any way fair even though i won but this is just stupid
  • MillionDlrBil
    MillionDlrBil
    Moderator
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 2,674
    The idea is that you should be able to defend most attacks if you put the effort in, but you should NOT be able to stop them all. So being able to defend 2 of 3 combos is actually good going. 
    It really depends on who you ask as to where the needle is, but regardless, the needle is always shifting and as tech drops it will swing one way or another and affect everyone. We've just been given word that a new defensive item is being dropped, so who knows, it might be the crux that shifts the needle again toward defense. Keep an eye out on what happens once the store opens and watch how players use the items in their base as things drop. Learning from others mistakes means less effort for you in the long run. 

    The battle just above this comment. . . that's a poor example of anything. You've hit a farm base with no fleet and no new weapons that could outrange your fleet. I promise that is NOT an example of base defense in todays game lol. 
    Support || Forum Rules || Discord <<< Click me

    Don't forget to join us on Discord. Click the link above for your invitation to the server where you can see the new forums and features. 
  • MillionDlrBil
    MillionDlrBil
    Moderator
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 2,674
    edited 13 Jul 2022, 2:47AM
    bigbawg said:

    The battle just above this comment. . . that's a poor example of anything. You've hit a farm base with no fleet and no new weapons that could outrange your fleet. I promise that is NOT an example of base defense in todays game lol. 
    when the last time a farm gave up 20 medals.
    When the person hitting them had less than them, when someone else dumped on the base, when the player is a hitter with no intention of defending their base. 
    There's a multitude of reasons and you can clearly see within that battle log you've hit a farm base with what looks like a free kix given fleet as you were able to 100% it with 0 damage,. 

    Once again, I assure you this is NOT the state of PvP in todays game. 
    Support || Forum Rules || Discord <<< Click me

    Don't forget to join us on Discord. Click the link above for your invitation to the server where you can see the new forums and features. 
  • bigbawg
    bigbawg
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 250
    bigbawg said:

    The battle just above this comment. . . that's a poor example of anything. You've hit a farm base with no fleet and no new weapons that could outrange your fleet. I promise that is NOT an example of base defense in todays game lol. 
    when the last time a farm gave up 20 medals.
    When the person hitting them had less than them, when someone else dumped on the base, when the player is a hitter with no intention of defending their base. 
    There's a multitude of reasons and you can clearly see within that battle log you've hit a farm base with what looks like a free kix given fleet as you were able to 100% it with 0 damage,. 

    Once again, I assure you this is NOT the state of PvP in todays game. 
    that combo seems to work pretty good i just took what kix did and tried something this isnt the only base that it has walked through unscaved oh  i got the hot fleet at the monent too
  • bigbawg
    bigbawg
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 250
    and this refit to test on attackers may work or may not but we gonna see.
  • MillionDlrBil
    MillionDlrBil
    Moderator
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 2,674
    bigbawg said:
    bigbawg said:

    The battle just above this comment. . . that's a poor example of anything. You've hit a farm base with no fleet and no new weapons that could outrange your fleet. I promise that is NOT an example of base defense in todays game lol. 
    when the last time a farm gave up 20 medals.
    When the person hitting them had less than them, when someone else dumped on the base, when the player is a hitter with no intention of defending their base. 
    There's a multitude of reasons and you can clearly see within that battle log you've hit a farm base with what looks like a free kix given fleet as you were able to 100% it with 0 damage,. 

    Once again, I assure you this is NOT the state of PvP in todays game. 
    that combo seems to work pretty good i just took what kix did and tried something this isnt the only base that it has walked through unscaved oh  i got the hot fleet at the monent too
    That's literally the hot fleet for easier bases. 
    Support || Forum Rules || Discord <<< Click me

    Don't forget to join us on Discord. Click the link above for your invitation to the server where you can see the new forums and features. 
  • Blackbeard III
    Blackbeard III
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 4,570
    At the moment I find PvP quite balanced. If your base isn't up to spec, you're going to hurt.

    If your base is good, well-thought out, tweaked when there are losses, you'll win more than you lose.
  • Blackbeard III
    Blackbeard III
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 4,570
    base defense is yet...another KIX facade...they dont want u defending ...they want u attacking. Working on ur base is a waste of time...we ALL see it....
    Wrong. There are plenty of weapons for turrets in tier 3 of the FM. The Rumbler messes up Winterfangs very well, Splinter launchers work well with Proximity Targeting, then there's the Rockslide UAV. The Pang is a moderately ok guard hull, good rocket magnet (meaning they're not rocketing something else critical to base) with good damage output.

    Bounty bubbles are now 12h, that's AMPLE time to grind out points for other defensive items.
  • michaelg21
    michaelg21
    Master Tactician
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 2,196
    It's a game of skill and learning. On both ends. All that needs to be said. They correctly pointed out that no base can stop EVERYONE-and I agree it shouldn't. However, there have been times when Kixeye has tilted the pendulum a bit too far and made defense essentially impossible for a short period of time. Such is the life of coiners. They are rewarded for coining the best and newest for a short while until they bring out the counter. Always been this way except that the VERY BEGINNING of the game when everyone was equal other then time on game.
  • Blackbeard III
    Blackbeard III
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 4,570
    It's a game of skill and learning. On both ends. All that needs to be said. They correctly pointed out that no base can stop EVERYONE-and I agree it shouldn't. However, there have been times when Kixeye has tilted the pendulum a bit too far and made defense essentially impossible for a short period of time. Such is the life of coiners. They are rewarded for coining the best and newest for a short while until they bring out the counter. Always been this way except that the VERY BEGINNING of the game when everyone was equal other then time on game.
    Be nice to have a side-server where we could only play with research tech, & OP level adjusted accordingly.

    & of course, sniping fleets on the high seas with Preds/Stalkers (that IS the other research sub, right? I forget) 

    Just a wish-list that'll never come true.
  • Bindewe
    Bindewe
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 596
    The idea is that you should be able to defend most attacks if you put the effort in, but you should NOT be able to stop them all. So being able to defend 2 of 3 combos is actually good going. 
    It really depends on who you ask as to where the needle is, but regardless, the needle is always shifting and as tech drops it will swing one way or another and affect everyone. We've just been given word that a new defensive item is being dropped, so who knows, it might be the crux that shifts the needle again toward defense. Keep an eye out on what happens once the store opens and watch how players use the items in their base as things drop. Learning from others mistakes means less effort for you in the long run. 

    The battle just above this comment. . . that's a poor example of anything. You've hit a farm base with no fleet and no new weapons that could outrange your fleet. I promise that is NOT an example of base defense in todays game lol. 
    and i would be good with that if one of the 4 combos could not point and click your base. a good base has to be built perfectly to be effective.   ohhh new prize, if it works we will get 4 new point and click conq fleets.  Like bases, on the other side, everything is tuned for perfection. even the first cycle of the raids are tuned for X1 fully built all limited special and weapon fleets. I know, I know tokens, tokens and more good tokens.  
  • DarkHeart666
    DarkHeart666
    Greenhorn
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 13
    rexerxxx said:
    Just wondering if its just me or is the Base unable to defend properly vs 3 fleet ranges, example you peek a players base , see what turrets are in place, then re-enter base with the stronger fleet that can take out that players base setup. The base now has no way to set up in response to the players fleet preference in time to protect it self. Im not sure how to fix this as the base defender has his hers hands tied as there is no way to defend against 3 fleet choices that the attacker has. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated, cheers
    You can't defend with 3 fleet, they say you can but they are full of it. you build a base to defend for longshot, and they bring in heliso and infiltrator. if you mix the base to defend for those two. they bring in winterfan with helios. the base can't keep them out. and now the game is dieing i have redone my base so many time i just stop doing it. pulled my fleets and just let them hit it.  THANKS FOR NOTHING KIX...
  • Bindewe
    Bindewe
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 596
    it's sad really
  • BadVenomHurricane
    BadVenomHurricane
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2016 Posts: 926
    bigbawg said:
    is this in any way fair even though i won but this is just stupid
    wheres ya base so i can see how yours does :D 
  • rexerxxx
    rexerxxx
    Greenhorn
    Joined Oct 2018 Posts: 2
    Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated cheers. It looks like we finally have a bit of a chance now defending our base thanks to all the base upgrades lets see where it takes us, happy building cheers.
  • SimonGrayson
    SimonGrayson
    Greenhorn
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 2
    What I want to know is how you stop a U1 longshot from taking out buildings from the perimeter edge that has a distance of 5 water tiles and 1land tile overall range approximately 145, yet the range on a longshot is 80-125. Now how can that be fair, you put effort into your base by working out the distance range of weapons but still manage to kill from outside the perimeter that is ranged 145 approx.
  • tonymncs59
    tonymncs59
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 83
    rexerxxx said:
    Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated cheers. It looks like we finally have a bit of a chance now defending our base thanks to all the base upgrades lets see where it takes us, happy building cheers.
    This is just another swing of the pendulum, I'm sure the coiners are not happy with base defense today.
    There is something coming for base hitting and the never ending pendulum will swing again  B)
    Warriors
  • GrimmReaper
    GrimmReaper
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2015 Posts: 57
    bigbawg said:
    is this in any way fair even though i won but this is just stupid
    wheres ya base so i can see how yours does :D 
    One thing I always see in the forums are high level players posting all their glorious winnings and all their conquests like this Jack__s bragging about all his medals! Whoopie you probably farmed a level 80+ to get all those medals! Why don't you give some help to players trying to get ahead in this game? Why not offer some suggestions to aid players to improve their bases or how to play in PVP? Keep your baloney conquests to yourself as nobody cares. Yea we know all the level 140+ who have all the tinker toys, we know you can call us farms, but keep this in mind mate; keep smashing all the little guys and this game will come to an end because players are tired of being farms and it is obvious that KIX don't really care either!
  • Templar614
    Templar614
    Moderator
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 15,850
    What I want to know is how you stop a U1 longshot from taking out buildings from the perimeter edge that has a distance of 5 water tiles and 1land tile overall range approximately 145, yet the range on a longshot is 80-125. Now how can that be fair, you put effort into your base by working out the distance range of weapons but still manage to kill from outside the perimeter that is ranged 145 approx.
    The pierce range is 165. Pierce weapons require something to be within their firing range, in this case the 80-125 range band. Once the projectile is fired it will continue to travel in a straight path damaging everything it touches out to the pierce range, in this case 165.

    The way you stop it from hitting that far is by not giving it a target as it cannot directly target something at the 165 range.
    It is also blocked by mountains.
  • nomaduz
    nomaduz
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 303
    In my opinion, there is too much focus on base defense nowadays. People are so afraid of being hit or their ego is so big that they literally steal base layouts that are really strong because they are afraid of their precious pixels being destroyed that they've thrown their creativity right out the window. With that being said, pay attention to how your base gets hit and learn the different stats and benefits of base defense items available to you and how they work in different combinations. It also depends on what matters to you. If medals matter to you (I don't see why they would), try to build a base that has a 50-70% success rate when it comes to defense and focus on base hitting. Then you can go hit bases, grab like a hundred medals then maybe lose 10 on average if you get hit. Or if you only hit bases because you want alliance points, go get your five bases, then sit back and do maintenance. If you're like me and you hit bases just for fun, pay attention to how different players have their bases set up and how things like their DP's, warehouses and research buildings are set up. Hitting bases will help you build a stronger base than getting hit. I've learned a lot from hitting bases. And if you're ever confused as to how certain specials work, jump on here an ask the admins. They've always been more than willing to answer my questions when I get stumped.  :) 
    "We cannot expand our abilities without challenges that test their limits."
  • XVIII-Luna
    XVIII-Luna
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Sep 2018 Posts: 614
    edited 30 Sep 2022, 4:18AM
    nomaduz said:
    In my opinion, there is too much focus on base defense nowadays. People are so afraid of being hit or their ego is so big that they literally steal base layouts that are really strong because they are afraid of their precious pixels being destroyed that they've thrown their creativity right out the window.
    Attackers aren't creative either, we're all running around with the same ships using the same exact builds. Bases being copied is not a matter of ego, it's a result of every attacking fleet being the exact same. You've been hit by one fleet, you've been hit by them all. So why wouldn't you just take a base design that beats the one fleet? You shouldn't expect to always win, but you should still play to win and that's exactly what the move is.
    This entire problem stems from the fact that PvP is using very restrictive ship setups ever since Tier 9. You get 3 weapon slots on a ship and only 1 weapon that goes in that slot. This current tier having a very small armor slot count also chokes ship creativity and the viability of turrets. I just get my massive deflections built in for free, so who cares about concussive or penetrative turrets? I'm just going to use the 2 armors that counter the only turrets people are using because they are the only turrets that can damage my ships. These factors together make my choice of specials very obvious on these ships as well.

    There's also much harsher time investment/loss on base defense. It's much faster to spit out a fleet of five ships than it is to get your vital structures up to speed. On top of this, if I hit a base and lose, who cares? It's going back to base with a very fast repair time in its own repair queue so nothing really happens to me. If I lose in a base defense while upgrading a structure? Oh well, 12h+ added to your upgrade time, suck it. Not to mention you basically get kicked out of the game for a few hours unless you want to coin your dock back to life, and if you don't, those hours are also added to whatever fleet you are repairing since the dock is down. Again, why would you not copy a winning design in this scenario when the risk/reward/effort is greatly against you?

    For the record, I don't have or intend to use one of these copied designs. I just won't fault people for doing it given the circumstances of how garbage the PvP experience is.
    Started in 2011, sector 19.
  • Bin_Chicken
    Bin_Chicken
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2015 Posts: 277
    "If I lose in a base defense while upgrading a structure? Oh well, 12h+ added to your upgrade time, suck it. Not to mention you basically get kicked out of the game for a few hours unless you want to coin your dock back to life, and if you don't, those hours are also added to whatever fleet you are repairing since the dock is down."

    Think kix would benefit from from reducing dock repairs even lower or instant repairs, taking the dock only feeds the malcontent/simps and keeps the player away from the game unnecessarily, a player away from the game for 4hr's 12hr's 2 days months years forever wont keep the game alive is it worth it? I guess you have the data right.
  • nomaduz
    nomaduz
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 303
    nomaduz said:
    In my opinion, there is too much focus on base defense nowadays. People are so afraid of being hit or their ego is so big that they literally steal base layouts that are really strong because they are afraid of their precious pixels being destroyed that they've thrown their creativity right out the window.
    Attackers aren't creative either, we're all running around with the same ships using the same exact builds. Bases being copied is not a matter of ego, it's a result of every attacking fleet being the exact same. You've been hit by one fleet, you've been hit by them all. So why wouldn't you just take a base design that beats the one fleet? You shouldn't expect to always win, but you should still play to win and that's exactly what the move is.
    This entire problem stems from the fact that PvP is using very restrictive ship setups ever since Tier 9. You get 3 weapon slots on a ship and only 1 weapon that goes in that slot. This current tier having a very small armor slot count also chokes ship creativity and the viability of turrets. I just get my massive deflections built in for free, so who cares about concussive or penetrative turrets? I'm just going to use the 2 armors that counter the only turrets people are using because they are the only turrets that can damage my ships. These factors together make my choice of specials very obvious on these ships as well.

    There's also much harsher time investment/loss on base defense. It's much faster to spit out a fleet of five ships than it is to get your vital structures up to speed. On top of this, if I hit a base and lose, who cares? It's going back to base with a very fast repair time in its own repair queue so nothing really happens to me. If I lose in a base defense while upgrading a structure? Oh well, 12h+ added to your upgrade time, suck it. Not to mention you basically get kicked out of the game for a few hours unless you want to coin your dock back to life, and if you don't, those hours are also added to whatever fleet you are repairing since the dock is down. Again, why would you not copy a winning design in this scenario when the risk/reward/effort is greatly against you?

    For the record, I don't have or intend to use one of these copied designs. I just won't fault people for doing it given the circumstances of how garbage the PvP experience is.
    Comparing ship build options to base build options is like comparing apples to oranges. People aren't as creative with their ship builds for lack of wanting to be. They are limited by Kix as to what they can actually put on specific hull types. Not the same with bases. You have way more options with designing base layouts than you do with ship builds. And I can absolutely tell you for a fact that copying a base layout is almost entirely about ego. Every person that's talked chit to me after failing in their base was using a copied base layout. They didn't do it because of research or dock repairs. Half of those people don't even hit bases. But they have no problems running their mouth when you fail in theirs. So yeah, Ego plays more of a part in copying bases than any other reason hands down. This is also one of the reasons why people get so bored with the game anymore. One of the areas that they have the most control over in terms of not being as limited in their creativity is base design but they choose to just copy someone else's work instead of doing it themselves. 
    "We cannot expand our abilities without challenges that test their limits."
  • jon pirate
    jon pirate
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2016 Posts: 1,158
    nomaduz said:
    nomaduz said:
    In my opinion, there is too much focus on base defense nowadays. People are so afraid of being hit or their ego is so big that they literally steal base layouts that are really strong because they are afraid of their precious pixels being destroyed that they've thrown their creativity right out the window.
    Attackers aren't creative either, we're all running around with the same ships using the same exact builds. Bases being copied is not a matter of ego, it's a result of every attacking fleet being the exact same. You've been hit by one fleet, you've been hit by them all. So why wouldn't you just take a base design that beats the one fleet? You shouldn't expect to always win, but you should still play to win and that's exactly what the move is.
    This entire problem stems from the fact that PvP is using very restrictive ship setups ever since Tier 9. You get 3 weapon slots on a ship and only 1 weapon that goes in that slot. This current tier having a very small armor slot count also chokes ship creativity and the viability of turrets. I just get my massive deflections built in for free, so who cares about concussive or penetrative turrets? I'm just going to use the 2 armors that counter the only turrets people are using because they are the only turrets that can damage my ships. These factors together make my choice of specials very obvious on these ships as well.

    There's also much harsher time investment/loss on base defense. It's much faster to spit out a fleet of five ships than it is to get your vital structures up to speed. On top of this, if I hit a base and lose, who cares? It's going back to base with a very fast repair time in its own repair queue so nothing really happens to me. If I lose in a base defense while upgrading a structure? Oh well, 12h+ added to your upgrade time, suck it. Not to mention you basically get kicked out of the game for a few hours unless you want to coin your dock back to life, and if you don't, those hours are also added to whatever fleet you are repairing since the dock is down. Again, why would you not copy a winning design in this scenario when the risk/reward/effort is greatly against you?

    For the record, I don't have or intend to use one of these copied designs. I just won't fault people for doing it given the circumstances of how garbage the PvP experience is.
    Comparing ship build options to base build options is like comparing apples to oranges. People aren't as creative with their ship builds for lack of wanting to be. They are limited by Kix as to what they can actually put on specific hull types. Not the same with bases. You have way more options with designing base layouts than you do with ship builds. And I can absolutely tell you for a fact that copying a base layout is almost entirely about ego. Every person that's talked chit to me after failing in their base was using a copied base layout. They didn't do it because of research or dock repairs. Half of those people don't even hit bases. But they have no problems running their mouth when you fail in theirs. So yeah, Ego plays more of a part in copying bases than any other reason hands down. This is also one of the reasons why people get so bored with the game anymore. One of the areas that they have the most control over in terms of not being as limited in their creativity is base design but they choose to just copy someone else's work instead of doing it themselves. 
    I agree with most but the creative part I don't kix has made it so only 2 or 3 design work this has been going on since bas ship came out and now long shot if they gave more land think you would see more creative bases come back 
    think you forgot about players first 
Sign In or Register to comment.