What can make our bases better ?

BPSmokey
BPSmokey
Minor Nuisance
Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 201
If we keep these answers reasonable and not try to re-invent the wheel but state simple items, such as those noted, Kix might let this post stay up a bit to see what folks are looking for in help.

Here are a few items I see that can help us protect our bases.

What can make our bases better ? 57 votes

Get rid of Rockets
1% 1 vote
Allow ALL defenders to move, we have a patrol range, let us use it if we want to keep them still (this can be done easily but just changing the CS of defender ships)
7% 4 votes
Omega Weapon...everyone has them, but the damage is very low and reload is very long, give us something to hurt.
14% 8 votes
HT Weapons, give us something that can fire 360.
77% 44 votes
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Master Tactician
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 2,163
    I'm thinking a defender that has an insanely high range, has priority targeting, does enough damage to break deflections, has a slow field that you can't resist in any way or pinch, millions of armor points, AND makes all your Piranhas twice as strong

    Oh wait...
    When I am not helping people on forums, and I'm not banned, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • AgentEJ
    AgentEJ
    Potential Threat
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 95
    what do you want? an invincible base? the new defender isn't enough for you ?? 
  • Grapeshot
    Grapeshot
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 48
    Add specials to ALL buildings, position oil rigs etc with fire / defence support in good position to keep those turrets firing. Upgrade whenever possible. use base parts if available for instant results. Oh remember....more armour = longer repair = less play time.  Oh another from the old days. use a defender fleet AND a guard....  (but if you lose that's another fleet to repair).  OR.... don't bother if you dont have to. that way less repair time & more surfing th high seas!.  Have a think about how and why you play BP, Maybe change your direction of game play style. We can't be the best at everything in BP, but we can be very good at some of the aspects. Remember 1 great base cannot defend against ALL fleet variants. 
  • MillionDlrBil
    MillionDlrBil
    Moderator
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 547
    While this may not be a popular opinion, my honest to RNGesus player opinion is Effort. Effort is what can make bases better right now and if you've got current and recent tech then you're on the right path. 

    We have had the tools to defend our base from most attacks long before the Overlord Carrier come out, and now with it in our hands a decently setup base is "almost" invincible. I'm not denying that some things would be nice to have, I'd like to see some more Omega weapons grace our stores but the truth of it is that we have the tools to defend right now. 

    Take a look at what is hitting you mostly and work toward stopping that fleet, that will give you the biggest gratification. There's unlimited base parts out there so there's no reason you can't change turrets every 5 minutes if you wish while you work out the best tactics. 
    Take a look at some of the more popular base designs and use them as inspiration. There's no need to reinvent the wheel and if you're already struggling to defend then use something that you know is working and just tweak it to suit yourself. Once you understand what works and how, then you can start designing your own. 

    The one thing I've found that's been working great for my base is being on the edge of defeat for most (if not all) fleet combinations. If something beats you then change something, but don't go overboard in making changes. Plug a hole or fit something more designed for that ship or fleet and see what happens. Once you find you're stopping most you can start working toward the niche build and expert drivers. 
    There's no change too small, really important to understand that even the smallest of changes, that little bit of extra deflection from a piece of armour or special on a portal for instance, or the priority targeting on a turret or two to help target specific ships, even the specific position of a turret or building, they all matter and can all make a difference. Try your hardest to not overlook anything when designing your base as it is all important. 
    Don't expect to sit on a base for too long, sure the majority of it can stay the same but PvP is "constantly" evolving and if you don't follow the trend with your defenses then you'll start getting stomped again. Treat it as if it's always a work in progress and expect to get beat, otherwise you're just setting yourself up for failure. 

    This thread will be watched and I hope that it is kept civil as there's lots of information that can be shared to help players, but I really don't think a poll on what kix can do for you is the answer you need. Look at what you have and what is out there, we have the tools already!
  • jon pirate
    jon pirate
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2016 Posts: 861
    edited 18 Sep 2020, 11:31AM
    More land, bigger foot print.
    I agree we need more to work with  all ship's have more range since the last time we got land 
    Make BP Great Again
  • MillionDlrBil
    MillionDlrBil
    Moderator
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 547
    @FFRODO

    Without the OC I was using a couple of Gatekeepers, a couple of CM Gorgons with a Polonium thrower each and a Piranha, before the Piranha I had an EMP built HG Warden or Siren in there (tried them both and both were successful but for different purposes). These along with some strategically placed turrets and a channel that forces people either into them or to stop in places for extended periods had my base performing reasonably well. 

    Now with the OC in there it saves me using the EMP ship or Gorgons which is great as I could put another GK in there to heal my frontline turrets. If you have any of the above ships built then they might be worth playing around with while you await your OC, but unless you've got hull specific build tokens for them I wouldn't waste too much shipyard time for anything more than a slight refit as the OC or current tech should be your main priority. 

    U1 Warhounds are a little bit of a mixed bag. The extra armour slot is great actually and allows to extend upon the build, but the extra arc on the built in rockets can be quite painful in "some" cases when up against an EMP built defender. It's important that you're careful when trying to navigate around them and avoid accidentally getting stopped mid channel. Making sure they're always aiming at something else is the key but it's very difficult and requires some micro managing fleet control (I actually find this a little easier with the larger arc as there's a larger target range to work with, but others have a different experience and it depends on the base layout so it's individual based).
    The extra armour is a pretty big leg up though with the correct build and made enough of a difference for me to be happy with them. That is of course just personal opinion and I would recommend chatting with others too and finding out their experiences. 

    The reason why I emphasized the "almost" is because bases are NOT invincible. The team works hard to balance out the game and strives to have no base unbreakable and no fleet unstoppable. It's a tough balance though as you can imagine but that is the end goal. It's helpful to have all the tech though so you can play with all the toys as there's many bases designed to stop 2 of 3 fleets and a few that are really good at stopping nearly all combinations you can think of. It just takes a LOT of effort to get a base working that well. 
  • FFRODO
    FFRODO
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2017 Posts: 175
    @MillionDlrBil

    Thanks for the reply and i mean no offence when i say i think you misunderstood my post. You responded from the perspective of somone who has both new items. I have neither. I would suspect that the OP also doesnt have an OC otherwise why make the post?  

    It seems that the expectation is everyone will have U1 Warhounds and the counter to that is the OC so therefore there is balance. Clearly not everyone has an OC and if you dont you are basically at the mercy of U1 Warhounds. That is not balance. Thats an either/or situation whereas a couple of weeks ago i do feel there was some balance. I dont move around much so tend to get hit by the same sets of players. I wont name names, The better hitters would beat my base regardless of my setup. The not so good hitters would be sent to the bottom. 2 weeks later and those players are now getting through, driving the same way with U1 Warhounds. 

    U1 WH Attacker peaks, does the base have an OC? Y players choice, hit at your peril but you`ll probably lose
    U1 WH Attacker peaks, does the base have an OC? N walk the base with impunity

    Defender, do you have an OC Y you`ll probably win most battles
    Defender, do you have an OC N you`ll probably lose most battles

    Those are very black and white options and not balance imo. I understand keeping the balance isnt easy but I can also understand why players without certain pieces of tech are asking for some other options. Take the OC out of your base for a week and see how may hits from U1 Warhounds you can withstand. I daresay you will win some but it will be less than you would a couple of weeks back and thats with the maximum effort you put into your base.
  • MillionDlrBil
    MillionDlrBil
    Moderator
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 547
    I feel you've skipped over the parts where I describe what I was using before I had my OC in. I've tried to be as informative as I could without sharing exact builds and layouts, and explain that I in fact was defending these fleets, U1 Warhounds included without the need for the OC (I had to built it too yeah). 

    Does the OC make it easier? Ofcourse. . . Is it the only solution? Absolutely not. There are still many players out there without an OC in their bases that are successfully defending, they've just put in the effort. Having an OC also doesn't just make a base work, you need to have a decent base and place it well as it's not a Kill Everything solution, it's a piece of the puzzle. 

    I genuinely don't feel that more tech is the solution if players don't have current tech, doesn't that sound counter-productive? Work toward getting the OC and completing current tech, check out what the most common turrets are in base defense and strive to collect and use them. Trying to defend top fleets without current tech is like trying to win a war with a spoon. 
  • ZoneTan
    ZoneTan
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2018 Posts: 180
    I'm thinking a defender that has an insanely high range, has priority targeting, does enough damage to break deflections, has a slow field that you can't resist in any way or pinch, millions of armor points, AND makes all your Piranhas twice as strong

    Oh wait...
    No one likes a smart arse luv. Either pick an option from the pole and if you cant or wont pick an option constructive feed back is more than welcomed as to what else would work.
    image
  • ZoneTan
    ZoneTan
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2018 Posts: 180
    FFRODO said:
    @MillionDlrBil

    Thanks for the reply and i mean no offence when i say i think you misunderstood my post. You responded from the perspective of somone who has both new items. I have neither. I would suspect that the OP also doesnt have an OC otherwise why make the post?  

    It seems that the expectation is everyone will have U1 Warhounds and the counter to that is the OC so therefore there is balance. Clearly not everyone has an OC and if you dont you are basically at the mercy of U1 Warhounds. That is not balance. Thats an either/or situation whereas a couple of weeks ago i do feel there was some balance. I dont move around much so tend to get hit by the same sets of players. I wont name names, The better hitters would beat my base regardless of my setup. The not so good hitters would be sent to the bottom. 2 weeks later and those players are now getting through, driving the same way with U1 Warhounds. 

    U1 WH Attacker peaks, does the base have an OC? Y players choice, hit at your peril but you`ll probably lose
    U1 WH Attacker peaks, does the base have an OC? N walk the base with impunity

    Defender, do you have an OC Y you`ll probably win most battles
    Defender, do you have an OC N you`ll probably lose most battles

    Those are very black and white options and not balance imo. I understand keeping the balance isnt easy but I can also understand why players without certain pieces of tech are asking for some other options. Take the OC out of your base for a week and see how may hits from U1 Warhounds you can withstand. I daresay you will win some but it will be less than you would a couple of weeks back and thats with the maximum effort you put into your base.
    I deal with U1 warhounds surprisingly well and i only use 1 gate keeper, 2 gorgons with CMs, 1 highguard warden and 1 siren both of wich also use countermeasures and both contain an EMP tac mod on some days i even stop 4-5 hellswarms or the combo fleets of 3-4 hellswarms and a trencher or warhound. the players who seem to know what they are doing dont seem to be that taken aback by my base all the time. other than that my base only has 1 main weakness one of wich i dont particularly care about enough to change anything to counter it in full force.
    image
  • ZoneTan
    ZoneTan
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2018 Posts: 180
    I feel you've skipped over the parts where I describe what I was using before I had my OC in. I've tried to be as informative as I could without sharing exact builds and layouts, and explain that I in fact was defending these fleets, U1 Warhounds included without the need for the OC (I had to built it too yeah). 

    Does the OC make it easier? Ofcourse. . . Is it the only solution? Absolutely not. There are still many players out there without an OC in their bases that are successfully defending, they've just put in the effort. Having an OC also doesn't just make a base work, you need to have a decent base and place it well as it's not a Kill Everything solution, it's a piece of the puzzle. 

    I genuinely don't feel that more tech is the solution if players don't have current tech, doesn't that sound counter-productive? Work toward getting the OC and completing current tech, check out what the most common turrets are in base defense and strive to collect and use them. Trying to defend top fleets without current tech is like trying to win a war with a spoon. 
    I would like much older tech from the "first ones" that isnt given out anymore the scrambler cannon comes to my mind some older specials would also be neat and higher deflection structure armors would also be a big help, i do fairly well against alot of fleets so far and i dont own the overlord carrier yet, my pirana needs work as it is very clunky and doesnt work up to my expectations other than that its decent enough.
    image
  • ZoneTan
    ZoneTan
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2018 Posts: 180
    DPR said:
    While this may not be a popular opinion, my honest to RNGesus player opinion is Effort. Effort is what can make bases better right now and if you've got current and recent tech then you're on the right path. 

    While i would agree a lot of what is needed is effort by players 

    The problem here is its no longer about effort its about coin 

    Players can put the effort in but in reality unless coining by the time time they get enough of the limited shards be it hull/weapon/tech its outdated let alone the time taken to build and rank 

    OC is a prime example yes all the heavy coiners got it during bounty and had it built and rnked in base ASAP for moderate to non coiners it will take months of events to get all the shards, build and rank, and along the way they will be forced to decide OC shards or new tech. Some people will say this is where the strategy part of BP comes in,

    I don't call this strategy its a choice, i was just getting my base and defender fleet to a position where i could hold my own against most fleets now with U1 hounds im back to square 1 

    My conqueror shipyard sits mostly idle these days as i dont have enough BP's to build more hulls let alone upgrade kits and as everything in game becomes more and more limited i feel i will not be the only pirate in this situation.

    NO base should be unbreakable personally like others have mentioned base defence needs a good looking over time to remove the need for HT transformers or firing arcs it seems no matter what i put in base to slow down attackers they still just drive through then kill turrets outwith their firing arcs which is a sensible thing to do 

    For me the main thing is to remember that very few pirates have all the toys and can do all the TLC's and get everything they need from the FM on a weekly basis has it been getting better yes it has IMO 

    I still believe KIX need to be more reactive with pricing structures in events Once tech is no longer the current cycle it should be reduced in terms of cost to be effective for those needing to catch up example the sacred engine is still 45k in FM with a redemption limit of 2 this should be down to 15k or less now and a weekly limit of 5 for it to be effective catch up mechanic 

    Sorry for the long and slighty off topic at times post. im all for improvements in BP 
    items in the FM did devalue over time was was brought down into the lower tiers and also the price was reduced to reflect this, that obviously has not happened for a very long time, even in events items that are so outdated and arent used anymore have inflated prices with items that do get used.
    image
  • DPR
    DPR
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 519
    ZoneTan said:
    items in the FM did devalue over time was was brought down into the lower tiers and also the price was reduced to reflect this, that obviously has not happened for a very long time, even in events items that are so outdated and arent used anymore have inflated prices with items that do get used.
    That is my point in order for them to be useful the FM costs should start devaluing as soon as it's applicable hull is no longer the current raid hull. Not just once a year when its completely obsolete.

    It should change at the same pace its introduced.
  • AgentEJ
    AgentEJ
    Potential Threat
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 95
    More land, bigger foot print.
    naw. just gotta reduce the basks crazy range. 
  • bigbawg
    bigbawg
    Greenhorn
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 18
    While this may not be a popular opinion, my honest to RNGesus player opinion is Effort. Effort is what can make bases better right now and if you've got current and recent tech then you're on the right path. 

    We have had the tools to defend our base from most attacks long before the Overlord Carrier come out, and now with it in our hands a decently setup base is "almost" invincible. I'm not denying that some things would be nice to have, I'd like to see some more Omega weapons grace our stores but the truth of it is that we have the tools to defend right now. 

    Take a look at what is hitting you mostly and work toward stopping that fleet, that will give you the biggest gratification. There's unlimited base parts out there so there's no reason you can't change turrets every 5 minutes if you wish while you work out the best tactics. 
    Take a look at some of the more popular base designs and use them as inspiration. There's no need to reinvent the wheel and if you're already struggling to defend then use something that you know is working and just tweak it to suit yourself. Once you understand what works and how, then you can start designing your own. 

    The one thing I've found that's been working great for my base is being on the edge of defeat for most (if not all) fleet combinations. If something beats you then change something, but don't go overboard in making changes. Plug a hole or fit something more designed for that ship or fleet and see what happens. Once you find you're stopping most you can start working toward the niche build and expert drivers. 
    There's no change too small, really important to understand that even the smallest of changes, that little bit of extra deflection from a piece of armour or special on a portal for instance, or the priority targeting on a turret or two to help target specific ships, even the specific position of a turret or building, they all matter and can all make a difference. Try your hardest to not overlook anything when designing your base as it is all important. 
    Don't expect to sit on a base for too long, sure the majority of it can stay the same but PvP is "constantly" evolving and if you don't follow the trend with your defenses then you'll start getting stomped again. Treat it as if it's always a work in progress and expect to get beat, otherwise you're just setting yourself up for failure. 

    This thread will be watched and I hope that it is kept civil as there's lots of information that can be shared to help players, but I really don't think a poll on what kix can do for you is the answer you need. Look at what you have and what is out there, we have the tools already!
    one major flaw in your assessment you have 3 differant t9 ships that can hit you and 1 of those deal dual damage.
  • impossibru
    impossibru
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 717
    edited 19 Sep 2020, 8:44PM
    There's a whole can of worms about defense that you prob can't cover in a post or two, but it boils down to a balance of things that will stop most common attack vectors, at present it's  Warhound U1 and Hellswarms, once you get to the higher levels it gets very challanging to stop all hits from very specialist builds (and also to a large degree, driving skills)

    Piranha in theory whittles down deflection enough for 360 degree T7 turrets to inflict damage, but takes too long.. OC flag is the easy answer but I find if you aim for mid tier hits then a 1 GK, 4 Gorgons supported by Decimators, mongoose and a Thunderclap (with a fairly twisty channel) will help you fend off most hits... it wont stop everything or skilled hitters but thats another story entirely and only joining a good alliance you get to learn the very subtle tweaks and builds you utilize for defense...
  • MillionDlrBil
    MillionDlrBil
    Moderator
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 547
    bigbawg said:
    one major flaw in your assessment you have 3 differant t9 ships that can hit you and 1 of those deal dual damage.
    All 3 of them deal 2 types of damage and it's actually pretty important to note that. It's certainly not a flaw in "my" assessment. 
    Take a closer look at the fleets that are hitting you, mock up some builds in your shipyard and find out how strong you can make them, then look at the damages they are dealing and read them very closely. 

    This is definitely another thing that can make your base stronger, knowing what is hitting you is a vital component to defending against it. 
  • FreeperTroll
    FreeperTroll
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2014 Posts: 100
    Gee, how about giving Bulwarks enough armor points so they don't get 1 or 2 shotted? You know, actually make them useful in slowing down a flt.
  • FreeperTroll
    FreeperTroll
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2014 Posts: 100
    Ment to say portals.
  • CrimsonTampon
    CrimsonTampon
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 524
    I'm thinking a defender that has an insanely high range, has priority targeting, does enough damage to break deflections, has a slow field that you can't resist in any way or pinch, millions of armor points, AND makes all your Piranhas twice as strong

    Oh wait...
    if your going to be the first person to reply to this guys pole atleast put something thats actually helpful dont be toxic and **** munchy by telling us to use something we already know is there, we as defenders want more room to be creative and have some real feild of play because how base defence stands right now its not even player vs player anymore just player vs auto base AI that cant even drive a carnage or pirana well enough to not get outsmarted and shot to heck and back, i usually look up to your sage-ish advice on youtube and the discord....... and even the complexity that is your brain when it comes to math...... please dont give me a reason to give you negative likeability points......... sincerely yours crimsontampon..... your worst nightmare mwahahahahaha... *gasp for air*     ha
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • CrimsonTampon
    CrimsonTampon
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 524
    bigbawg said:
    one major flaw in your assessment you have 3 differant t9 ships that can hit you and 1 of those deal dual damage.
    all 3 tier 9 conqs do dual damage not just 1.
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • CrimsonTampon
    CrimsonTampon
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 524
    There's a whole can of worms about defense that you prob can't cover in a post or two, but it boils down to a balance of things that will stop most common attack vectors, at present it's  Warhound U1 and Hellswarms, once you get to the higher levels it gets very challanging to stop all hits from very specialist builds (and also to a large degree, driving skills)

    Piranha in theory whittles down deflection enough for 360 degree T7 turrets to inflict damage, but takes too long.. OC flag is the easy answer but I find if you aim for mid tier hits then a 1 GK, 4 Gorgons supported by Decimators, mongoose and a Thunderclap (with a fairly twisty channel) will help you fend off most hits... it wont stop everything or skilled hitters but thats another story entirely and only joining a good alliance you get to learn the very subtle tweaks and builds you utilize for defense...
    hi impossibru
    Image result for shy girls mario
  • CrimsonTampon
    CrimsonTampon
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 524
    i would like the ability to add tactical mods to my portals, like explosive bulwark, possibly use 2 armor slots instead of 1, and a increase in power for it cause with the bastion seawall its hardly any power left on it to fit anything worth a darn, and even at level 4....... there is no added power wich really grinds my gears.

    Image result for shy girls mario
  • impossibru
    impossibru
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 717
    There's a whole can of worms about defense that you prob can't cover in a post or two, but it boils down to a balance of things that will stop most common attack vectors, at present it's  Warhound U1 and Hellswarms, once you get to the higher levels it gets very challanging to stop all hits from very specialist builds (and also to a large degree, driving skills)

    Piranha in theory whittles down deflection enough for 360 degree T7 turrets to inflict damage, but takes too long.. OC flag is the easy answer but I find if you aim for mid tier hits then a 1 GK, 4 Gorgons supported by Decimators, mongoose and a Thunderclap (with a fairly twisty channel) will help you fend off most hits... it wont stop everything or skilled hitters but thats another story entirely and only joining a good alliance you get to learn the very subtle tweaks and builds you utilize for defense...
    hi impossibru
    Helloooo!
  • steshot
    steshot
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 595
    While i agree that base defence is always evolving, and takes attention to detail, and keeping up to date as much as possible, i dispute much of the rest of what our mods said.
    Balance is something that has never truly been in BP. The game has always favoured the attacker, as thats what pays (they think). As soon as a decent bit of defender tech is released, it is either nerfed or a new conq is brought out, making it worthless, or both! Most recently, the new OC was introduced, but only those who paid could make use of it, so kix won obviously. Despite this, they brought out the U1 for warhounds which reversed it anyway, also making money as the pvp players coined it of course. Do we expect more defence boosts - nope, a conq flag instead, lol -will that give defenders a chance??????? -maybe if its like the flag everest that lowers defences of entire fleet, lol. 
    Seriously though -we need a true balance for ALL, not just pandering to the wallets.
    As for putting in effort -is 17hrs a day too little effort -i guess so, cos i can't keep attackers out any more. Yes, my base is decent , so i badly damage them, but fail overall - unless an idiot has a go of course.
    More and more i don't enjot the game. We stay because we have put a crazy amount of effort in over a decade of playing -more than any Kix employee for sure!
    We stay for the few friends still here, most have left long a go, as the game deteriorated!
    Please also stabilise the game BEFORE adding ANY new tech or changes!!!!!!! We are FED UP of crashes, lag, glitches, and VERY fed up of always being told it is our fault. I've apologised to the world on numerous occasions for me apparently crashing the game worldwide, as senior CS have told me. My state of the art gaming computer and top internet in the country is obviously not good enough for this 'superior' game.
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