9.47 Discussion Thread (FM Week)

  • AdmiralPollution
    AdmiralPollution
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 34
    edited 21 Nov 2019, 12:44AM
    kix, we, the players have begged you to stop with excessive ship build time, its now longer than it has ever been. Yes, upgrading a ship IS part of the build time.

    this is a game, not a job. you have gotten stupid with the FM once again. i am not refitting my preads again. 9 hours repair for 5 mill in points for the FM is way over the top. you got a week or so to fix it.
    i was in 1 narcissistic relationship, i will never do it again.

  • jon pirate
    jon pirate
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2016 Posts: 598
    have my fleet at U2 and take 3 hr damage in the 133 this is BS why have a upgrade if they don't help with repair 
  • dlaw001
    dlaw001
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2017 Posts: 206
    edited 21 Nov 2019, 2:20AM
    Only reason for getting rid of the 131is that it wasn't causing enough damage....

    Wondering why they haven't changed the 61, 68, 82, 89 targets as they have been around a lot longer than the 131...
  • BANZAI09
    BANZAI09
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 214
    Just milking the cow ,like farmville,this has become a very stupid,anoying game,no fun at all
  • Airdefender
    Airdefender
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 117
    Nice one Kix, 2 minutes of playtime = 2.5 hours of repairs.  Way to kill a game, I will not be spending coin on the FM which means I'll be hardly playing this weekend.
  • Blitzfinger44
    Blitzfinger44
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Apr 2015 Posts: 411
    I think it's kind of funny. A community manager in a community forum decides they just "aren't chatty". I get it though. After months of nothing but complaints and threats to rage-quit in your forum posts I'd probably give up too..
  • jon pirate
    jon pirate
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2016 Posts: 598
    Most the damage we take is do to anti missile not doing nothing they don't fire at a single missile 
  • Darren Thompson
    Darren Thompson
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 74
    what a joke kixeye  

    NEW! - Folded Ferrite Armor F2-COM

    70,000,000   your taking the p... out of the players you have on the game and now your going to lose them to joke 

  • Silver Stefaans
    Silver Stefaans
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jun 2018 Posts: 355
    This Chris is the laziest, most useless CM ever, and then he is sill as condescending to the player base as always. Fire his ****.
  • Jooster
    Jooster
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 142
    dlaw001 said:
    Only reason for getting rid of the 131is that it wasn't causing enough damage....

    Wondering why they haven't changed the 61, 68, 82, 89 targets as they have been around a lot longer than the 131...
    Probably because they're obsolete anyway; you can't get anything worthwhile via those targets any more.
  • CM Chris
    CM Chris
    KIXEYE Community Manager
    Joined Mar 2014 Posts: 3,733
    edited 21 Nov 2019, 4:54PM
    CM Chris said:
    Once again, whats the point of having these threads when you never respond to complaints/feedback from players? Formality?
    These threads, and the forums at large, are primarily for players to have discussions with one another about what's happening in the game. It's not a space where you're guaranteed interaction or response from the game team.

    CMs and mods are here to facilitate a constructive arena in which players can have those conversations, they're not here to contribute to every thread or provide justification for every choice wherever it is asked. Additionally, it's better for us to stay out of most conversations and let them develop organically, because it gives better insight than if I/we hop into every conversation and curb your opinions with justification and reasoning.

    Aggregated feedback, sentiment, and concerns are all passed along in regular community reports. So just because we aren't chatty doesn't mean we aren't paying attention.
    With all do respect, CM Chris, I guess you and CM Ghillie do not see things the same since she  called these discussion thread Q & A for weeks( If not months)

    Heck, players have been discussing between themselves for years outside of kix forums (mainly the various facebook book that have existed since before you joined kixeye)

    Players come here(or on discord) to get feedback from the team, to read briefing and announcements. They also come here to leave feedback in hope that they ll actually get a return in communication. The CM have always been the link between the players and the team. Has your new position of Director of Marketing gone to your head or have you forgotten what a CM job description is ? Maybe you've been lead CM for too long to remember.

    Even Discord isn't used by a majority of the players and many have request that important information discussed live on Discord trickled down to forums, but sadly, that has never truly happen. Except for big announcements and briefing, lots is lost on Discord and many players dont see it cause they dont have a discord account and dont want one.


    But hey, looking at you track record in the last few months as CM on BP, can't say im surprised, since players feedback and retention seem the least of your priorities. Massive bans, lack of response or feedback. In the last few weeks you ve replaced Ghillie, we have truly missed her cause at least she gave feedback and bothered to keep proper communication.


    But hey, ill probably get banned myself for speaking my mind since you dont seem to appreciate feedback at all. You log in, post briefing and hurry out and ban anyone who post non constructive or negative feedback. Great way to build the future of a studio who is losing so many players who will never again play a kixeye/stillfront game due to how there voice is being treated. Great example from a new member of middle management.
    As head of the community org for KIXEYE, the Q&A threads were my requested initiative passed down to all of the CMs across our titles to try and consolidate those types of conversations into a manageable place that we could be attentive to. We stopped them because feedback across the board from the CMs was that they weren't being used for constructive conversation by the community, they primarily became a repository for toxic complaints.

    So, I do care about getting back-and-forth dialogue flowing between the community, however if an initiative isn't bearing fruit then I'm not going to make my team continue to do it. 

    Discord is yielding good conversation, so we lean into that. The dev diaries are prompting good conversation, so we continue to lean into those. The next week posts are providing helpful clarity for the community, so we lean into those. The release notes and briefings are going out early instead of day-of, so we lean into those. There are various preview groups for community influencers that have worked out - so we've created even more of those. Internally, there's about 5x as many internal community-related meetings and/or reports across all titles compared to a few years ago. In fact, there's had to be some amount of walking back how much player-input has been steering the development of certain titles, as it's been occasionally randomizing our teams and sometimes leading to missing critical targets.

    My point is: we do listen, we do try new things to give players a platform to speak, and we do lean into things that are working (especially to ensure clarity of information). There has never been a time in my history here at KIXEYE where a CM has responded to absolutely everything - but it's never meant we aren't listening. 

    In regards to my personal involvement in BP, covering for Ghillie is one of several things on my plate including running the Marketing org, Community org and Customer Service org so you absolutely do have a part-time CM right now, as such I'm not available for dialogue on most days. In that regard, I too am looking forward to Ghillie's return, not just because she's a great asset for the team and we're very pleased with the work she does, but because I want every community we have at KIXEYE to have a full time community manager.
     
    KIXEYE Director of Marketing
    Community Rules: CLICK HERE
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  • AdmiralPollution
    AdmiralPollution
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 34
    Kix, in the words of the Rooster, this warn you,.. this entire thread, this warn you!

  • CM Chris
    CM Chris
    KIXEYE Community Manager
    Joined Mar 2014 Posts: 3,733

    Just a thought here:-

    It could be that everyone, on every forum is a troll, or maybe, just maybe they could be a tad upset at the direction kixeye are taking things?

    Now I am no genius (close to it, but not quite) BUT here is the rub, sometimes it cannot be everybody else who is wrong, sometimes you have to look within
    'What could we be doing differently' is the first question the community team asks in regards to any negative player comment. The answer is always one of the following:
    • "Something, and it aligns with the game's other objectives so is probably feasible. Implementation just a matter of resourcing and time"
    • "Something, but it doesn't align with the game's other objectives or is too resource-intensive to implement, so is not feasible"
    • "Nothing, this is a core piece of the way the game is and it just doesn't sit well with this particular person"
    • "This person is just here to be disruptive, so they can be ignored and removed from the conversation moving forward"
    Again, with the frequency of internal community reviews and reports we do, a lack of reflection on how we're doing things is not really the issue. The Q&A threads just weren't being utilized the way we hoped they would be, so we're under no obligation to continue them. We have no problem picking up on player complaints from the rest of the forums.

    To your larger point, I don't think everyone on the forums is a troll, certainly not. Plenty of perfectly valid feedback around here that we frequently take away for use, and it helps us steer the game in small ways. However, it's also well known within the player community that the forums is where people come to voice complaints, and little else, they've found other places to be jolly with friends. That actually hasn't changed in - I'd say - over 75% of BP's lifespan, and I still get comments on the matter from players regularly.

    Doesn't mean we disappear though - we're still here, still broadcasting, still taking away comments for review. But suggesting that most BP players haven't, for some time now, viewed the forums as a place to just pop in and vent would be a bit of a willful misinterpretation.
    KIXEYE Director of Marketing
    Community Rules: CLICK HERE
    Submit a Support Ticket: CLICK HERE
  • Blitzfinger44
    Blitzfinger44
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Apr 2015 Posts: 411
    CM Chris said:
    'What could we be doing differently' is the first question the community team asks in regards to any negative player comment. The answer is always one of the following:
    • "Something, and it aligns with the game's other objectives so is probably feasible. Implementation just a matter of resourcing and time"
    • "Something, but it doesn't align with the game's other objectives or is too resource-intensive to implement, so is not feasible"
    • "Nothing, this is a core piece of the way the game is and it just doesn't sit well with this particular person"
    • "This person is just here to be disruptive, so they can be ignored and removed from the conversation moving forward"

    We want to be able to view the upgrade kit inventory.  How does that request classify?
  • CM Chris
    CM Chris
    KIXEYE Community Manager
    Joined Mar 2014 Posts: 3,733
    CM Chris said:
    'What could we be doing differently' is the first question the community team asks in regards to any negative player comment. The answer is always one of the following:
    • "Something, and it aligns with the game's other objectives so is probably feasible. Implementation just a matter of resourcing and time"
    • "Something, but it doesn't align with the game's other objectives or is too resource-intensive to implement, so is not feasible"
    • "Nothing, this is a core piece of the way the game is and it just doesn't sit well with this particular person"
    • "This person is just here to be disruptive, so they can be ignored and removed from the conversation moving forward"

    We want to be able to view the upgrade kit inventory.  How does that request classify?
    The first bullet point. Something we've also wanted to add since the launch of Upgrade Kits. It's in the backlog, but 'implementation is a matter of resourcing and time'.
    KIXEYE Director of Marketing
    Community Rules: CLICK HERE
    Submit a Support Ticket: CLICK HERE
  • carl.wear.3
    carl.wear.3
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 5,978
    CM Chris said:
    CM Chris said:
    Once again, whats the point of having these threads when you never respond to complaints/feedback from players? Formality?

    As head of the community org for KIXEYE, the Q&A threads were my requested initiative passed down to all of the CMs across our titles to try and consolidate those types of conversations into a manageable place that we could be attentive to. We stopped them because feedback across the board from the CMs was that they weren't being used for constructive conversation by the community, they primarily became a repository for toxic complaints.


     
    The problem is anything that you guys view as negative you see as a "toxic complaint". We are not allowed to point out a aspect of the game that is broken or we are not happy with as you just see any such post as negative even when its not. As an example, the decision to have 70 mil points required for FM prizes. Players are NOT HAPPY but when we try to have a DISCUSSION with you guys about it, you see it as a "toxic COMPLAINT" and the thread is shut down and the poster banned. Added to that are the regular fanboi's who constantly undermine players who dare express that they are not happy with certain aspects of the game. These fanboi's are allowed to constantly troll and undermine threads and instead of removing the trolling post, you guys use it as an excuse to just shut down threads about topics YOU DON'T want to hear about. Then you turn around in communications to the player base and say "we are listening", " we have heard you".

    Have you guys ever actually wondered just WHY there are so many complaints about the game? Ever considered its because from the players perspective it seems like there are so many daft decisions being made within the game for pricing of tech, and the way the game is going but we are not allowed to tell you. Then you wonder why players give up in frustration and quit the game. Players LIKE the game. We still think it has potential eventhough it is a 8 year old game. IF we DIDN'T CARE about the game then we wouldn't be posting in forums when we see the game going in a bad direction. Too bad it really does seem like the players care more about the game than kixeye does.
  • CM Chris
    CM Chris
    KIXEYE Community Manager
    Joined Mar 2014 Posts: 3,733

     
    The problem is anything that you guys view as negative you see as a "toxic complaint". We are not allowed to point out a aspect of the game that is broken or we are not happy with as you just see any such post as negative even when its not. As an example, the decision to have 70 mil points required for FM prizes. Players are NOT HAPPY but when we try to have a DISCUSSION with you guys about it, you see it as a "toxic COMPLAINT" and the thread is shut down and the poster banned. Added to that are the regular fanboi's who constantly undermine players who dare express that they are not happy with certain aspects of the game. These fanboi's are allowed to constantly troll and undermine threads and instead of removing the trolling post, you guys use it as an excuse to just shut down threads about topics YOU DON'T want to hear about. Then you turn around in communications to the player base and say "we are listening", " we have heard you".

    Have you guys ever actually wondered just WHY there are so many complaints about the game? Ever considered its because from the players perspective it seems like there are so many daft decisions being made within the game for pricing of tech, and the way the game is going but we are not allowed to tell you. Then you wonder why players give up in frustration and quit the game. Players LIKE the game. We still think it has potential eventhough it is a 8 year old game. IF we DIDN'T CARE about the game then we wouldn't be posting in forums when we see the game going in a bad direction. Too bad it really does seem like the players care more about the game than kixeye does.
    Would point you towards my answer to Nick earlier for response to the second paragraph. In response to the first, lol, ain't nobody getting banned just for posting something negative. Exhibit A) :waves at entire forums:

    We let players post critical threads and negativity all the time - and factor it into reports where applicable. In your example, we haven't been shutting down people's concerns about the cost of the FM prizes, unless they're coupling it with some other nonsense.

    It's when people break one of the community rules, talk about quitting, or throw in an insult/abusive rhetoric that something gets qualified as toxic and gets them banned. Very few times have I ever come across a case that didn't have some type of parting shot thrown into it from the person who was banned that's what actually got them in trouble. I know that everyone who gets banned on the forums or has their posts closed swears up and down that they're innocent but don't drink that kool-aid. 
    KIXEYE Director of Marketing
    Community Rules: CLICK HERE
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  • Blitzfinger44
    Blitzfinger44
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Apr 2015 Posts: 411
    CM Chris said:
    CM Chris said:
    'What could we be doing differently' is the first question the community team asks in regards to any negative player comment. The answer is always one of the following:
    • "Something, and it aligns with the game's other objectives so is probably feasible. Implementation just a matter of resourcing and time"
    • "Something, but it doesn't align with the game's other objectives or is too resource-intensive to implement, so is not feasible"
    • "Nothing, this is a core piece of the way the game is and it just doesn't sit well with this particular person"
    • "This person is just here to be disruptive, so they can be ignored and removed from the conversation moving forward"

    We want to be able to view the upgrade kit inventory.  How does that request classify?
    The first bullet point. Something we've also wanted to add since the launch of Upgrade Kits. It's in the backlog, but 'implementation is a matter of resourcing and time'.


    That's good to hear, but do you think this can get some resourcing and time.. soon?   Lets face it, we should have had it when you released the kits to begin with, which was now what.. 5-6 months ago?  And the players have been begging for it. You're still devoting resources to new content and events, and this is just a list. How hard could it be?

    Listen Chris, I think a lot of us appreciate that you finally made an appearance here and tactfully explained your position, but you can see clearly that much of the player base is not happy with the direction of the game or the communication here, and the dissent is simply not all "toxic" and worthy of being dismissed. 

    I personally have played this great game for about 6 years but it's changed so much and I just don't like what it's become.  Frankly it looks to me like it's falling apart. I think there needs to be at least a little good faith effort by Kixeye here, and give us the list of kits - something we shouldn't have had to ask for in the first place.

  • CM Chris
    CM Chris
    KIXEYE Community Manager
    Joined Mar 2014 Posts: 3,733
    CM Chris said:
    CM Chris said:
    'What could we be doing differently' is the first question the community team asks in regards to any negative player comment. The answer is always one of the following:
    • "Something, and it aligns with the game's other objectives so is probably feasible. Implementation just a matter of resourcing and time"
    • "Something, but it doesn't align with the game's other objectives or is too resource-intensive to implement, so is not feasible"
    • "Nothing, this is a core piece of the way the game is and it just doesn't sit well with this particular person"
    • "This person is just here to be disruptive, so they can be ignored and removed from the conversation moving forward"

    We want to be able to view the upgrade kit inventory.  How does that request classify?
    The first bullet point. Something we've also wanted to add since the launch of Upgrade Kits. It's in the backlog, but 'implementation is a matter of resourcing and time'.


    That's good to hear, but do you think this can get some resourcing and time.. soon?   Lets face it, we should have had it when you released the kits to begin with, which was now what.. 5-6 months ago?  And the players have been begging for it. You're still devoting resources to new content and events, and this is just a list. How hard could it be?

    Listen Chris, I think a lot of us appreciate that you finally made an appearance here and tactfully explained your position, but you can see clearly that much of the player base is not happy with the direction of the game or the communication here, and the dissent is simply not all "toxic" and worthy of being dismissed. 

    I personally have played this great game for about 6 years but it's changed so much and I just don't like what it's become.  Frankly it looks to me like it's falling apart. I think there needs to be at least a little good faith effort by Kixeye here, and give us the list of kits - something we shouldn't have had to ask for in the first place.

    Again, player input is not dismissed. It's heard and forwarded along and incorporated into the game as it's able to be. My position is not that you aren't listened to - it's that we simply don't/can't respond to everything (the only reason I've had time for this today is because I've been waiting on analytics data to run and can check in more frequently); but that doesn't mean we don't make significant efforts to broadcast the live ops happenings of the game to players, as well as provide dev insights in a structured fashion. Additionally, to acknowledge that there is toxicity here on these forums that muddies the waters of dialogue, but that disciplinary action or removal of people who are disrupting for the sake of disruption is not at all outside expectations for maintaining a constructive arena for discussion.

    In regards to new content vs the Upgrade Kit inventory - one requires design and one requires engineering. They're mutually exclusive things. So it's not that we sacrificed the Inventory in order to put out a new hull, it's that we're focusing on HTML5 and keeping the existing game stable instead of doing that Inventory. And it's also true that maintaining a baseline of new content is the only thing that will keep the lights on in this game whereas letting the Upgrade Kit Inventory sit in the backlog until we're done with HTML5 is not going to be the end of the world. So even if those two things were in direct competition with one another, yes we would absolutely let the new content win, because we have to maintain that baseline.
    KIXEYE Director of Marketing
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