Targeting and Excessive Damage [Post 9.44 update]

DerpyTheCow
DerpyTheCow
Force to be Reckoned With
Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,581
edited 4 Nov 2019, 1:15AM
So, I'm going to rant a little bit about the targeting system we have in game. 

How it should work - Blackwater (best)
Years ago, I don't remember targeting being a issue. Ships would always take comparable amounts of damage to each other if they were built the same and had the same defense survival stats. This was good then, and is how it should be. I don't care if the code is different now than it was, a new code can be made to produce the same results. Maybe the more complicated mechanics over the last 10 years have made this impossible, maybe the targeting system was completely changed and can be un-done easily (I think not).

Flagship is targeted - 2017 (worst)
I'm not very certain on this part, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Some time more recently (about a year ago?) the flagship started taking more damage than the other ships when driving stacked, auto or controlled. We as a player-base did not like this, because the flagship died faster than the others, and we couldn't swap it out.
This made players upset, which is not good.
If I recall, this was when Citadels and Punishers was the default FM fleet. I drove a Punisher as a tank (which was in the 5th ship slot, because it's at the end. This was just preference for me, and had nothing to do with being stacked or not) and had ships 1-4 as mortar hulls in the back. See this video for an example if you want to for a little fun.

5th ship is targeted - 2018 (better, but still bad)
The solution to the this that was rolled out? Not make all ships equally damaged, but make the 5th ship targeted by default when driving stacked. This was better than the flag getting targeted, because we could rotate ships around. This resulted in damages like the following from the 126 target last raid:


The problem here? If damage was split evenly and I drove a tiny bit better, the repair would be 25 minutes in base. But with the 5th ship being targeted, it has the bulk of the repair. In the 901 targets, I even lost the 5th ship a few times. This system was bad for free to play players who wanted to spread out the damage on their fleets for an instant repair or kill the whole fleet evenly for an overnight repair. 
It did not impact coiners at all, and if anything increased the amount of coin Kixeye got because it's a lot easier for players to rationalize speeding up one ship than the whole fleet (my speculation here).
I will acknowledge the advantage was that you KNEW your 5th ship would be targeted, so if you could increase resistance by prioritizing armors or upgrading the one ship, you could theoretically lower your total damage. This mostly benefited coiners, but players who wanted to hit a target, repair for half an hour, and repeat could benefit also.
This system made players upset, which is not good.

First ship to arrive targeted - 9.44 update (not as bad as it looks)
With no announcement until after the change hit in game (poor communication), we now have a system where if all ships are closest, the first ship to arrive at the location is targeted. This has now been clearly explained and posted on forums.
This has resulted in the flagships and the 5th ship being targeted more than the other three. I tested this by autoing the level 131 with my Praetorian fleet. The damage is posted below. 

In this screenshot, my ships 1 and 2 have three armor plates (one Z1-X and two Z1-M) while the other three only have one (Z1-X).




Here is another screenshot, showing the results after ~seven 131s. I ran the fleet in a slightly different configuration, with the two ships having three armor plates in positions 1 and 5. Notice that the extra armor plates don't cause the extra damage, the ships would have taken more if the plates were not on there.


So, what does the current system mean for you?

It appears ships 1 and 5 are targeted first when on auto. If anything, ship 1 is targeted more than ship 5. You CAN move the 5th ship around to spread out that damage (this works best if ships 2-3-4-5 are all the same build, having a CM set up will make it slightly harder). You can't, however, move the flag around to spread out that damage.
You can also refit or upgrade the 1st and 5th ships before the others, so that the highest survival is in the slots that take the most damage.

I did test a 131 driving, and I found damage was spread out equally to all ships. THIS IS VERY GOOD. Damage is now going to be spread out when you drive, which should have a noticeable impact in the raid where I assume most players drive. The following is a screenshot of a 131 driving post 9.44:


I think the 9.44 update is a step in the wrong direction. This may be wrong on my part. Maybe Kixeye has some other update or feature planned, but I (and the rest of the players) don't know about it.
I wrote that last sentence before I tested ships by controlling them. It turns out Kixeye DID have some other feature, which is that damage is proportional if you are driving. I can only assume this is Kixeye responding to the issue of the 5th ship being targeted (GOOD!), but this was not communicated to players.

If you want to spread out damage, you can always take control of your ships manually, but that is NOT a good solution for players who want to auto targets or just are lazy drivers. 

This system still makes players who ever auto things upset (read: everyone), which is not good.

In my opinion, if the change was communicated more clearly to players and we were told damage should now be spread out proportionally when driving, the response would have been better. I am not intending to be critical of Kixeye as a company or of any employees, I'm just giving my balanced thoughts on this topic. I'm calling out both the positives and the negatives.

Implications of the current system on you
Under the current system, ships 1 and 5 are going to take more damage while running a full fleet ON AUTO. If this doesn't get fixed before the November raid (in what, two weeks?) we are going to see this same exact issue with the Pegasus. Ships 1 and 5 will take more damage, meaning you can't spread repair around evenly (especially on ship one) and you can't get the same number of targets out of a fleet for an overnight repair. This won't be an issue driving, but will be for auto.
By far the biggest impact is on the Forsaken Mission, which I assume has the highest number of players who want to auto these targets (me included).

Solutions
Now, I could have ended without solutions, but that wouldn't have fixed the issue and wouldn't have helped players, which is what I try to do.

In engineering, we need to start out with a problem statement before we can come up with a solution.

Problem statement: Ships 1 and 5 (especially ship 1) take significantly increased damage when autoing targets compared to ships 2,3, and 4.

There are a few possible ones I can think of, and I'm sure there are many more. Here are the best two I can think of:

Make all turrets target a ship at random if the ships are close to each other. This would spread the damage around randomly, some ships might take more than others but over a whole target and definitely will over an entire fleet's health. You could even improve this by having the turrets cycle through the ships if they are close to each other to fordable spread out the damage. 
This solution is complicated (how do you decide when ships are close enough together, how does this interact with splash weapons? so we can do a bit better.

Implement a "reverse" priority targeting for accuracy based weapons, at least those in the FM and raid. As priority target focuses the ship with the highest percent damage, a reverse priority targeting would focus the ship with the lowest percent damage. This would force damage to be spread out evenly across all ships in the fleet.

These two solutions are not easy to implement, no changes to targets or the entire combat system are. BUT we know there are possible as seen in the 9.44 update which changed the targeting system (who knows how long they were working on this for?).

Even if none of my two proposed solutions are the best one, I am sure the team at Kixeye can come up with a solution for this.

For all our sakes, I sure hope they do.

TL:DR
Under the current 9.44 system:
When driving, ships take a proportional amount of damage (good).
When autoing, Ships 1 and 5 take significantly increased damage (bad).

EDIT 11/3/2019

I'm seeing information in BP next week where we will be getting the "heavily armored war Pegasus".

I'm guessing this will have a low repair modifier, meaning we can repair the same number of health points in far less time. Effectively, this will take the time to repair your flag as other ships in your fleet after one target.

It is also possible the Perseus CIC that is offed will have a similar healing mechanic to the Gutspill's Skyfire, but that is just my speculation and I'd bet against this if I were a betting person (but is is possible).

If either or both of those are true, it means under the 9.44 update mechanics we will see great results while using a full Pegasus fleet, but the same issue (where the flag and maybe ship 5 take more damage on auto) will persist in the FM.

I don't predict a happy player base.
When I am not helping people on forums, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • blackheart300
    blackheart300
    Potential Threat
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 92
    So, I'm going to rant a little bit about the targeting system we have in game. 

    How it should work - Blackwater (best)
    Years ago, I don't remember targeting being a issue. Ships would always take comparable amounts of damage to each other if they were built the same and had the same defense survival stats. This was good then, and is how it should be. I don't care if the code is different now than it was, a new code can be made to produce the same results. Maybe the more complicated mechanics over the last 10 years have made this impossible, maybe the targeting system was completely changed and can be un-done easily (I think not).

    Flagship is targeted - 2017 (worst)
    I'm not very certain on this part, so please correct me if I'm wrong. Some time more recently (about a year ago?) the flagship started taking more damage than the other ships when driving stacked, auto or controlled. We as a player-base did not like this, because the flagship died faster than the others, and we couldn't swap it out.
    This made players upset, which is not good.
    If I recall, this was when Citadels and Punishers was the default FM fleet. I drove a Punisher as a tank (which was in the 5th ship slot, because it's at the end. This was just preference for me, and had nothing to do with being stacked or not) and had ships 1-4 as mortar hulls in the back. See this video for an example if you want to for a little fun.

    5th ship is targeted - 2018 (better, but still bad)
    The solution to the this that was rolled out? Not make all ships equally damaged, but make the 5th ship targeted by default when driving stacked. This was better than the flag getting targeted, because we could rotate ships around. This resulted in damages like the following from the 126 target last raid:


    The problem here? If damage was split evenly and I drove a tiny bit better, the repair would be 25 minutes in base. But with the 5th ship being targeted, it has the bulk of the repair. In the 901 targets, I even lost the 5th ship a few times. This system was bad for free to play players who wanted to spread out the damage on their fleets for an instant repair or kill the whole fleet evenly for an overnight repair. 
    It did not impact coiners at all, and if anything increased the amount of coin Kixeye got because it's a lot easier for players to rationalize speeding up one ship than the whole fleet (my speculation here).
    I will acknowledge the advantage was that you KNEW your 5th ship would be targeted, so if you could increase resistance by prioritizing armors or upgrading the one ship, you could theoretically lower your total damage. This mostly benefited coiners, but players who wanted to hit a target, repair for half an hour, and repeat could benefit also.
    This system made players upset, which is not good.

    First ship to arrive targeted - 9.44 update (not as bad as it looks)
    With no announcement until after the change hit in game (poor communication), we now have a system where if all ships are closest, the first ship to arrive at the location is targeted. This has now been clearly explained and posted on forums.
    This has resulted in the flagships and the 5th ship being targeted more than the other three. I tested this by autoing the level 131 with my Praetorian fleet. The damage is posted below. 

    In this screenshot, my ships 1 and 2 have three armor plates (one Z1-X and two Z1-M) while the other three only have one (Z1-X).




    Here is another screenshot, showing the results after ~seven 131s. I ran the fleet in a slightly different configuration, with the two ships having three armor plates in positions 1 and 5. Notice that the extra armor plates don't cause the extra damage, the ships would have taken more if the plates were not on there.


    So, what does the current system mean for you?

    It appears ships 1 and 5 are targeted first when on auto. If anything, ship 1 is targeted more than ship 5. You CAN move the 5th ship around to spread out that damage (this works best if ships 2-3-4-5 are all the same build, having a CM set up will make it slightly harder). You can't, however, move the flag around to spread out that damage.
    You can also refit or upgrade the 1st and 5th ships before the others, so that the highest survival is in the slots that take the most damage.

    I did test a 131 driving, and I found damage was spread out equally to all ships. THIS IS VERY GOOD. Damage is now going to be spread out when you drive, which should have a noticeable impact in the raid where I assume most players drive. The following is a screenshot of a 131 driving post 9.44:


    I think the 9.44 update is a step in the wrong direction. This may be wrong on my part. Maybe Kixeye has some other update or feature planned, but I (and the rest of the players) don't know about it.
    I wrote that last sentence before I tested ships by controlling them. It turns out Kixeye DID have some other feature, which is that damage is proportional if you are driving. I can only assume this is Kixeye responding to the issue of the 5th ship being targeted (GOOD!), but this was not communicated to players.

    If you want to spread out damage, you can always take control of your ships manually, but that is NOT a good solution for players who want to auto targets or just are lazy drivers. 

    This system still makes players who ever auto things upset (read: everyone), which is not good.

    In my opinion, if the change was communicated more clearly to players and we were told damage should now be spread out proportionally when driving, the response would have been better. I am not intending to be critical of Kixeye as a company or of any employees, I'm just giving my balanced thoughts on this topic. I'm calling out both the positives and the negatives.

    Implications of the current system on you
    Under the current system, ships 1 and 5 are going to take more damage while running a full fleet ON AUTO. If this doesn't get fixed before the November raid (in what, two weeks?) we are going to see this same exact issue with the Pegasus. Ships 1 and 5 will take more damage, meaning you can't spread repair around evenly (especially on ship one) and you can't get the same number of targets out of a fleet for an overnight repair. This won't be an issue driving, but will be for auto.
    By far the biggest impact is on the Forsaken Mission, which I assume has the highest number of players who want to auto these targets (me included).

    Solutions
    Now, I could have ended without solutions, but that wouldn't have fixed the issue and wouldn't have helped players, which is what I try to do.

    In engineering, we need to start out with a problem statement before we can come up with a solution.

    Problem statement: Ships 1 and 5 (especially ship 1) take significantly increased damage when autoing targets compared to ships 2,3, and 4.

    There are a few possible ones I can think of, and I'm sure there are many more. Here are the best two I can think of:

    Make all turrets target a ship at random if the ships are close to each other. This would spread the damage around randomly, some ships might take more than others but over a whole target and definitely will over an entire fleet's health. You could even improve this by having the turrets cycle through the ships if they are close to each other to fordable spread out the damage. 
    This solution is complicated (how do you decide when ships are close enough together, how does this interact with splash weapons? so we can do a bit better.

    Implement a "reverse" priority targeting for accuracy based weapons, at least those in the FM and raid. As priority target focuses the ship with the highest percent damage, a reverse priority targeting would focus the ship with the lowest percent damage. This would force damage to be spread out evenly across all ships in the fleet.

    These two solutions are not easy to implement, no changes to targets or the entire combat system are. BUT we know there are possible as seen in the 9.44 update which changed the targeting system (who knows how long they were working on this for?).

    Even if none of my two proposed solutions are the best one, I am sure the team at Kixeye can come up with a solution for this.

    For all our sakes, I sure hope they do.

    TL:DR
    Under the current 9.44 system:
    When driving, ships take a proportional amount of damage (good).
    When autoing, Ships 1 and 5 take significantly increased damage (bad).
    what it means to me is i need your build i can so 4 131 lol

  • maddad
    maddad
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 585
    edited 1 Nov 2019, 4:05PM
    I have to disagree with the driving,(that they all take similar damage)
    my prae flag has 3 new (25mill cost) armours more than the other 4 praes
    when driving stacked,my prae flag took 1hr MORE damage than the other 4
    apart from the armours all  praes are built the same
    upgrades=downfall of battle pirates
  • Vesna Viktor
    Vesna Viktor
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 117
    Very good post! Kix has to pay attention on this!Thanks.
    V-V 
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,581
    ...
    what it means to me is i need your build i can so 4 131 lol

    Planned backline hulls x4: eNp1jbEKAjEQRP9l6y3c22STTSk2foNYBI14EL1wuUNB/HcTKxubYQZm5r3gkWKZ7hXCgcRYJNkwsqr7K0eE9CxpXrbrmM8QLjHXhBDn2zT3GyWxqKSCXpz+OO9sH9eSTmPbfImuwcRoxw7InrVFR82Rb9XrmvN+B8EMzO8PRVEshQ==

    Planned Flag:
    eNp1jrEOAjEMQ/8lcwZyyaWkI2LhGxBDBUWcVLiq5QQS4t8JOyyWBz/bL3jkVOdbh7gnlRHZLCDpiv/KASE/a273zTKVE8RzKj0jpHad27fGSEc0MsUfzuFe83FyxqOsYr44CHIQFw3kjv3Fms2jl6WU3RaiDMzvDxLTLB8=

    Hope that helps
    When I am not helping people on forums, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,581
    Very good post! Kix has to pay attention on this!Thanks.
    I hope so :/
    When I am not helping people on forums, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,581
    maddad said:
    I have to disagree with the driving,(that they all take similar damage)
    my prae flag has 3 new (25mill cost) armours more than the other 4 praes
    when driving stacked,my prae flag took 1hr MORE damage than the other 4
    apart from the armours all  praes are built the same
    Hmm...good to know. If the damage is not proportional driving stacked, then the issue is worse than I thought
    When I am not helping people on forums, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • DPR
    DPR
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 417
    Well i still seem to be taking a lot of damage to ship #5 which is ok as i can rotate it out, upgraded it with newer armours to help mitigate extra damage, Seen update so refitted flag with newer armours and ship #5 still taking most damage ....  
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,581
    DPR said:
    Well i still seem to be taking a lot of damage to ship #5 which is ok as i can rotate it out, upgraded it with newer armours to help mitigate extra damage, Seen update so refitted flag with newer armours and ship #5 still taking most damage ....  
    As I said in my post, I believe both ships 1 and 5 are being targeted more than the others are while on auto
    When I am not helping people on forums, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • carl.wear.3
    carl.wear.3
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 5,836
    ...
    what it means to me is i need your build i can so 4 131 lol

    Planned backline hulls x4: eNp1jbEKAjEQRP9l6y3c22STTSk2foNYBI14EL1wuUNB/HcTKxubYQZm5r3gkWKZ7hXCgcRYJNkwsqr7K0eE9CxpXrbrmM8QLjHXhBDn2zT3GyWxqKSCXpz+OO9sH9eSTmPbfImuwcRoxw7InrVFR82Rb9XrmvN+B8EMzO8PRVEshQ==

    Planned Flag:
    eNp1jrEOAjEMQ/8lcwZyyaWkI2LhGxBDBUWcVLiq5QQS4t8JOyyWBz/bL3jkVOdbh7gnlRHZLCDpiv/KASE/a273zTKVE8RzKj0jpHad27fGSEc0MsUfzuFe83FyxqOsYr44CHIQFw3kjv3Fms2jl6WU3RaiDMzvDxLTLB8=

    Hope that helps
    Why warhead reloader and not cluster warheads 3? I found when I replaced warhead reloader with cluster warheads 3, My repair time went down as I could kill the turrets faster.
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,581
    ...
    what it means to me is i need your build i can so 4 131 lol

    Planned backline hulls x4: eNp1jbEKAjEQRP9l6y3c22STTSk2foNYBI14EL1wuUNB/HcTKxubYQZm5r3gkWKZ7hXCgcRYJNkwsqr7K0eE9CxpXrbrmM8QLjHXhBDn2zT3GyWxqKSCXpz+OO9sH9eSTmPbfImuwcRoxw7InrVFR82Rb9XrmvN+B8EMzO8PRVEshQ==

    Planned Flag:
    eNp1jrEOAjEMQ/8lcwZyyaWkI2LhGxBDBUWcVLiq5QQS4t8JOyyWBz/bL3jkVOdbh7gnlRHZLCDpiv/KASE/a273zTKVE8RzKj0jpHad27fGSEc0MsUfzuFe83FyxqOsYr44CHIQFw3kjv3Fms2jl6WU3RaiDMzvDxLTLB8=

    Hope that helps
    Why warhead reloader and not cluster warheads 3? I found when I replaced warhead reloader with cluster warheads 3, My repair time went down as I could kill the turrets faster.
    There are so many variations on builds, so yours may work better than mine in some scenarios or vice-versa. I prefer the extra damage over reload, so I can hopefully kill the enemy buildings in one volley.

    Furthermore, clister warheads adds weight so I can't have all my weapon slots full with 5 good armors and 1 mediocre one with the exact setup I was running
    When I am not helping people on forums, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • BattleHymn
    BattleHymn
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 217
    Thx for sharing this Derpy. I agree all 5 hulls get about the same damage when driving. What interests me, is that my no. 2-4 hulls, which are all identical (2x ZX-1 and 4x D7-M), take exactly the same amount of damage. That can only mean they take splash damage. On auto, the flag takes most damage, yet the 5th takes the least amount of damage (both have 2x ZX-1, 4x ZM-1).So it appears we are dealing with weapons that deal penetrative splash damage, against which my 5th hull is better defended than the other regulars...
  • Nick Heath
    Nick Heath
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 958
    ...
    what it means to me is i need your build i can so 4 131 lol

    Planned backline hulls x4: eNp1jbEKAjEQRP9l6y3c22STTSk2foNYBI14EL1wuUNB/HcTKxubYQZm5r3gkWKZ7hXCgcRYJNkwsqr7K0eE9CxpXrbrmM8QLjHXhBDn2zT3GyWxqKSCXpz+OO9sH9eSTmPbfImuwcRoxw7InrVFR82Rb9XrmvN+B8EMzO8PRVEshQ==

    Planned Flag:
    eNp1jrEOAjEMQ/8lcwZyyaWkI2LhGxBDBUWcVLiq5QQS4t8JOyyWBz/bL3jkVOdbh7gnlRHZLCDpiv/KASE/a273zTKVE8RzKj0jpHad27fGSEc0MsUfzuFe83FyxqOsYr44CHIQFw3kjv3Fms2jl6WU3RaiDMzvDxLTLB8=

    Hope that helps
    Why warhead reloader and not cluster warheads 3? I found when I replaced warhead reloader with cluster warheads 3, My repair time went down as I could kill the turrets faster.
    cluster 3 is heavy, warhead reloader gives extra explosive damage, 

    I havent seen his fleet to be honest, but I know I use warhead reloader on mine, max reload is about 275% anything over that you are wasting reload. My leet does 9 131s on auto before i need to repair, but having said that I never armoured flag properly, so whan i get around tto that would expect to see my results get better..............IF and its a big IF I can be bothered, getting old all this moving the goalposts

    Snoopy
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,581
    Thx for sharing this Derpy. I agree all 5 hulls get about the same damage when driving. What interests me, is that my no. 2-4 hulls, which are all identical (2x ZX-1 and 4x D7-M), take exactly the same amount of damage. That can only mean they take splash damage. On auto, the flag takes most damage, yet the 5th takes the least amount of damage (both have 2x ZX-1, 4x ZM-1).So it appears we are dealing with weapons that deal penetrative splash damage, against which my 5th hull is better defended than the other regulars...
    We know this target deals both explosive and penetrative damage, so I can only assume that both types deal splash and accuracy based damage
    When I am not helping people on forums, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,581
    ...
    what it means to me is i need your build i can so 4 131 lol

    Planned backline hulls x4: eNp1jbEKAjEQRP9l6y3c22STTSk2foNYBI14EL1wuUNB/HcTKxubYQZm5r3gkWKZ7hXCgcRYJNkwsqr7K0eE9CxpXrbrmM8QLjHXhBDn2zT3GyWxqKSCXpz+OO9sH9eSTmPbfImuwcRoxw7InrVFR82Rb9XrmvN+B8EMzO8PRVEshQ==

    Planned Flag:
    eNp1jrEOAjEMQ/8lcwZyyaWkI2LhGxBDBUWcVLiq5QQS4t8JOyyWBz/bL3jkVOdbh7gnlRHZLCDpiv/KASE/a273zTKVE8RzKj0jpHad27fGSEc0MsUfzuFe83FyxqOsYr44CHIQFw3kjv3Fms2jl6WU3RaiDMzvDxLTLB8=

    Hope that helps
    Why warhead reloader and not cluster warheads 3? I found when I replaced warhead reloader with cluster warheads 3, My repair time went down as I could kill the turrets faster.
    cluster 3 is heavy, warhead reloader gives extra explosive damage, 

    I havent seen his fleet to be honest, but I know I use warhead reloader on mine, max reload is about 275% anything over that you are wasting reload. My leet does 9 131s on auto before i need to repair, but having said that I never armoured flag properly, so whan i get around tto that would expect to see my results get better..............IF and its a big IF I can be bothered, getting old all this moving the goalposts

    I agree on all of this
    When I am not helping people on forums, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • BattleHymn
    BattleHymn
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 217
    maddad said:
    I have to disagree with the driving,(that they all take similar damage)
    my prae flag has 3 new (25mill cost) armours more than the other 4 praes
    when driving stacked,my prae flag took 1hr MORE damage than the other 4
    apart from the armours all  praes are built the same
    How many times did you test this? If done multiple times, does the flag always takes 1 hour more damage?
  • maddad
    maddad
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 585
    maddad said:
    I have to disagree with the driving,(that they all take similar damage)
    my prae flag has 3 new (25mill cost) armours more than the other 4 praes
    when driving stacked,my prae flag took 1hr MORE damage than the other 4
    apart from the armours all  praes are built the same
    How many times did you test this? If done multiple times, does the flag always takes 1 hour more damage?
    did 4x 131 all results similar

    upgrades=downfall of battle pirates
  • carl.wear.3
    carl.wear.3
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 5,836
    ...
    what it means to me is i need your build i can so 4 131 lol

    Planned backline hulls x4: eNp1jbEKAjEQRP9l6y3c22STTSk2foNYBI14EL1wuUNB/HcTKxubYQZm5r3gkWKZ7hXCgcRYJNkwsqr7K0eE9CxpXrbrmM8QLjHXhBDn2zT3GyWxqKSCXpz+OO9sH9eSTmPbfImuwcRoxw7InrVFR82Rb9XrmvN+B8EMzO8PRVEshQ==

    Planned Flag:
    eNp1jrEOAjEMQ/8lcwZyyaWkI2LhGxBDBUWcVLiq5QQS4t8JOyyWBz/bL3jkVOdbh7gnlRHZLCDpiv/KASE/a273zTKVE8RzKj0jpHad27fGSEc0MsUfzuFe83FyxqOsYr44CHIQFw3kjv3Fms2jl6WU3RaiDMzvDxLTLB8=

    Hope that helps
    Why warhead reloader and not cluster warheads 3? I found when I replaced warhead reloader with cluster warheads 3, My repair time went down as I could kill the turrets faster.
    cluster 3 is heavy, warhead reloader gives extra explosive damage, 

    I havent seen his fleet to be honest, but I know I use warhead reloader on mine, max reload is about 275% anything over that you are wasting reload. My leet does 9 131s on auto before i need to repair, but having said that I never armoured flag properly, so whan i get around tto that would expect to see my results get better..............IF and its a big IF I can be bothered, getting old all this moving the goalposts

    I was getting about 4 hours damage from a 131 but replacing warhead reloader with cluster warhead 3, it went down to 2 1/2 - 3 hours
  • Nick Heath
    Nick Heath
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 958
    ...
    what it means to me is i need your build i can so 4 131 lol

    Planned backline hulls x4: eNp1jbEKAjEQRP9l6y3c22STTSk2foNYBI14EL1wuUNB/HcTKxubYQZm5r3gkWKZ7hXCgcRYJNkwsqr7K0eE9CxpXrbrmM8QLjHXhBDn2zT3GyWxqKSCXpz+OO9sH9eSTmPbfImuwcRoxw7InrVFR82Rb9XrmvN+B8EMzO8PRVEshQ==

    Planned Flag:
    eNp1jrEOAjEMQ/8lcwZyyaWkI2LhGxBDBUWcVLiq5QQS4t8JOyyWBz/bL3jkVOdbh7gnlRHZLCDpiv/KASE/a273zTKVE8RzKj0jpHad27fGSEc0MsUfzuFe83FyxqOsYr44CHIQFw3kjv3Fms2jl6WU3RaiDMzvDxLTLB8=

    Hope that helps
    Why warhead reloader and not cluster warheads 3? I found when I replaced warhead reloader with cluster warheads 3, My repair time went down as I could kill the turrets faster.
    cluster 3 is heavy, warhead reloader gives extra explosive damage, 

    I havent seen his fleet to be honest, but I know I use warhead reloader on mine, max reload is about 275% anything over that you are wasting reload. My leet does 9 131s on auto before i need to repair, but having said that I never armoured flag properly, so whan i get around tto that would expect to see my results get better..............IF and its a big IF I can be bothered, getting old all this moving the goalposts

    I was getting about 4 hours damage from a 131 but replacing warhead reloader with cluster warhead 3, it went down to 2 1/2 - 3 hours
    i do them for down to 25 minutes damage, but normally about 40 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VISchN9n_YA
    Snoopy
  • Philip_Marlowe
    Philip_Marlowe
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2016 Posts: 154
    edited 2 Nov 2019, 3:13AM
    DerpyTheCow: Great post!  

    CM_Ghillie - Have you forwarded the original post from DerpyTheCow to the Kixeye Team?  Businesses pay big $$ for consultants to provide this kind of insight - and DerpyTheCow has handed it to the Kixeye Team with a bow on top.
  • FFRODO
    FFRODO
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2017 Posts: 71
    edited 2 Nov 2019, 3:47AM
     Nick Heath said:   
    i do them for down to 25 minutes damage, but normally about 40 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VISchN9n_YA
    Hey Snoop. So after I complained in the main discussion thread that armours arent working (which i still think is true in some cases) largely based on poor fm results, it turns out "its my build+its my driving+its the target" lol awesome.

    I made some changes based on your october video and saw some improvements. Made some further adjustments based on this video and Im seeing repairs coming right down. Thanks for sharing.
  • novartis
    novartis
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jan 2017 Posts: 156
    tbh, they had implement the reverse smart targeting. Remember tempest HT description? It'll target the highest health enemy. Which is? They'll never stay on the same target everytime the salvo hits.
    In the end, it just down into maths, pure maths. We just don't really know how their math works.
  • kixeyeuser_1379094861572_24090_469482193
    kixeyeuser_1379094861572_24090_469482193
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2016 Posts: 154
    What I find interesting is that in these ship builds, hardly any of them are using the latest specials specifically designed for the Praets. I've got some serous refitting to squeeze in somehow, somewhen.
  • Jan Spiegelberg
    Jan Spiegelberg
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 219


    Im sorry, but this is the damage my fleet receives when autoing.
    Ship 1 and 5 both have one ZX1 and ZM1, ships 2-4 only have one ZX1.
    This is 2017 all over again
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,581
    I'm seeing information in BP next week where we will be getting the "heavily armored war Pegasus".

    I'm guessing this will have a low repair modifier, meaning we can repair the same number of health points in far less time. Effectively, this will take the time to repair your flag as other ships in your fleet after one target.

    It is also possible the Perseus CIC that is offed will have a similar healing mechanic to the Gutspill's Skyfire, but that is just my speculation and I'd bet against this if I were a betting person (but is is possible).

    If either or both of those are true, it means under the 9.44 update mechanics we will see great results while using a full Pegasus fleet, but the same issue (where the flag and maybe ship 5 take more damage on auto) will persist in the FM.

    I don't predict a happy player base.
    When I am not helping people on forums, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • CptBlackEye-0
    CptBlackEye-0
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2014 Posts: 428
    I'm seeing information in BP next week where we will be getting the "heavily armored war Pegasus".

    I'm guessing this will have a low repair modifier, meaning we can repair the same number of health points in far less time. Effectively, this will take the time to repair your flag as other ships in your fleet after one target.

    It is also possible the Perseus CIC that is offed will have a similar healing mechanic to the Gutspill's Skyfire, but that is just my speculation and I'd bet against this if I were a betting person (but is is possible).

    If either or both of those are true, it means under the 9.44 update mechanics we will see great results while using a full Pegasus fleet, but the same issue (where the flag and maybe ship 5 take more damage on auto) will persist in the FM.

    I don't predict a happy player base.
    Hey Derpy, thank you for your valuable videos! Have you made any discussions on how you are going to beef up your Praetorian flag for the FM/Pillage? Last night, I finally caught up on ship repairs and decided to take my praet fleet out for 'full fleet' testing (not split up from doing 120/121) in FM 129 and 131 targets. I drove two 131 and three 129. I found that I was taking more expl damage in 129 and more pen damage in 131, with the flag taking double the damage of the other ships. I had hoped to get an idea which armor(s) I needed to add for Pillage (currently 1x ZX-1, 1x ZM-1 on each ship, plus 2x D6-M on #5). Unfortunately, I was unable to gain any usable insight, beyond needing to drive better. Thoughts?
  • DerpyTheCow
    DerpyTheCow
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,581
    I'm seeing information in BP next week where we will be getting the "heavily armored war Pegasus".

    I'm guessing this will have a low repair modifier, meaning we can repair the same number of health points in far less time. Effectively, this will take the time to repair your flag as other ships in your fleet after one target.

    It is also possible the Perseus CIC that is offed will have a similar healing mechanic to the Gutspill's Skyfire, but that is just my speculation and I'd bet against this if I were a betting person (but is is possible).

    If either or both of those are true, it means under the 9.44 update mechanics we will see great results while using a full Pegasus fleet, but the same issue (where the flag and maybe ship 5 take more damage on auto) will persist in the FM.

    I don't predict a happy player base.
    Hey Derpy, thank you for your valuable videos! Have you made any discussions on how you are going to beef up your Praetorian flag for the FM/Pillage? Last night, I finally caught up on ship repairs and decided to take my praet fleet out for 'full fleet' testing (not split up from doing 120/121) in FM 129 and 131 targets. I drove two 131 and three 129. I found that I was taking more expl damage in 129 and more pen damage in 131, with the flag taking double the damage of the other ships. I had hoped to get an idea which armor(s) I needed to add for Pillage (currently 1x ZX-1, 1x ZM-1 on each ship, plus 2x D6-M on #5). Unfortunately, I was unable to gain any usable insight, beyond needing to drive better. Thoughts?
    I'm going for 3x Z1-X armors, 2x Z1-M armors, 1x D7-M armor. Might do a video "soon"
    When I am not helping people on forums, I run a YouTube channel.  I focus on actually helping players in the game. I respond to every comment on there, so it is the best way to find me. If you want more info click the link below.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/DerpyTheCow47?sub_confirmation=1
  • CptBlackEye-0
    CptBlackEye-0
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2014 Posts: 428
    I'm seeing information in BP next week where we will be getting the "heavily armored war Pegasus".

    I'm guessing this will have a low repair modifier, meaning we can repair the same number of health points in far less time. Effectively, this will take the time to repair your flag as other ships in your fleet after one target.

    It is also possible the Perseus CIC that is offed will have a similar healing mechanic to the Gutspill's Skyfire, but that is just my speculation and I'd bet against this if I were a betting person (but is is possible).

    If either or both of those are true, it means under the 9.44 update mechanics we will see great results while using a full Pegasus fleet, but the same issue (where the flag and maybe ship 5 take more damage on auto) will persist in the FM.

    I don't predict a happy player base.
    Hey Derpy, thank you for your valuable videos! Have you made any discussions on how you are going to beef up your Praetorian flag for the FM/Pillage? Last night, I finally caught up on ship repairs and decided to take my praet fleet out for 'full fleet' testing (not split up from doing 120/121) in FM 129 and 131 targets. I drove two 131 and three 129. I found that I was taking more expl damage in 129 and more pen damage in 131, with the flag taking double the damage of the other ships. I had hoped to get an idea which armor(s) I needed to add for Pillage (currently 1x ZX-1, 1x ZM-1 on each ship, plus 2x D6-M on #5). Unfortunately, I was unable to gain any usable insight, beyond needing to drive better. Thoughts?
    I'm going for 3x Z1-X armors, 2x Z1-M armors, 1x D7-M armor. Might do a video "soon"
    All this, in addition to getting ready for the raid.  :P
    Thank you.
  • John Matchynski53
    John Matchynski53
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2019 Posts: 1
    what no 40 targets in fm and high damage in all others u guy need to fix it or lose player that are just starting the game or kill the whole thing 

  • brew_master_1
    brew_master_1
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2016 Posts: 232


    The Flag is by far the heaviest armored...
  • Possaman
    Possaman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 73
    Derpy, good topic mate, very inciteful. have you thought about Still/kix actually intending to do this to stop insta repair?
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