Explanation of the great grand rebalance from Paul Preece, founder of KIXEYE

  • AussieJohn
    AussieJohn
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2014 Posts: 315
    So what he said is that he does not care about the old PC players just the new mobile users! He is says he wants lower rep and higher damage ..... but is too stupid to realize that with the weight increases (since that is the only difference between ships) just went up! AND they are so high now you can but max every gun and still have room for MAX SHIELDS AND ARMOR....Either he is just stupid or truly has not even looked.

    We ...the old players need to stop buying coins ... money talks....or we have no one to blame but ourselves. The faster this game becomes bankrupt the faster we will be able to get out of this addictive game and go play something fun.

    Break the trust of your loyal players....they will not trust you and that is what you have done. It is rare in the gaming world for the CO FOUNDER to defraud its players and take away in game items purchased.
  • nauticalorb1
    nauticalorb1
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 35

    Your an idiot and have no clue how to run a game. If you want to fix the ge make better ships weapons and armor. Never nerf fown you moron bring other things in line. You will loose money and you should. We all should petiton for the money we spent back as you are making a new game its not a change. A change is saying we are changing the dps on a weapong not we are nerfing everything forcing you to change how you play the game and making you spend countless hours refitting your fleets just to play our game. Wtf is that you still arnt offering free refits that would be a no brainer. You are a failure at making decisions and a failure at running a company please step down and give i to someone with a quarter of a brain that can make logical decisions. Let alone someone that doesnt hide in the darkness during the entire backlash and make a halfassed response the day of the change. You havnt even done a q and a with real people or acknowledge any legit question. You are a complete failure. I once again encourage all players to change your ratings to 1 star they will not get any new members if they dont have a good rating and will be forced to really listen to what the players want.

  • g.margrin
    g.margrin
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2015 Posts: 21
    For my part, I spend more money on this game, I have spent time and money to make good ship that makes evolve my game and not to those that they either turn into bike by Kixeye
  • charger69
    charger69
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2014 Posts: 399

    Here is the future of pvp under new conditions

  • RAZOR_WIRE
    RAZOR_WIRE
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 153
    $10 says this turns into a 40 page rage fest again all because you Paul are clearly not listening to what WE the PLAYERS want. I find it funny how history repeats itself with KIXEYE i.e war commander & Battle pirates. I pity your ignorance.
    VEGA BETA ID: 52918 
  • mathsums
    mathsums
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 464

    @TheShrike said:
    No the next event prize will be **** cream.  We all need it after being screwed over.

    you mean you will need it before?

  • nauticalorb1
    nauticalorb1
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 35

    @Dayspring329 said:
    I've just read the majority of the posts here and never before have I heard the community pour its heart out more. However I honestly dont think it will do much good stopping the update. However, I have 182 ships! All will need refitting in someway shape or form. Not once have I coined a ship built. Just ran my ship bay for 4 years straight. Imagine how many some of the coiners have. How long will those take to refit?? Give us all one free refit per ship. You won't lose any money over it. Because we wouldn't fly them til they are changed. The faster you get us flying the faster we coin repair. Its your call. While I'm waiting to refit and cant play Im checking out all the other games in Steam thinking why am I playing Vega again?

    Not coining a thing they will never recieve my money again. They cant be trusted with my cash. I will hold onto the coins i have currently but i will never spend a penny on this game again. Fool me twice shame on me. They knew they were going to torch the game months ago and hid it from us. They knew they were nerfing speed and still offered bonuses for ships they were going to nerf before telling us.. its like giving us a dread offer and nerfing the dread 3 days later.... or offering corinthian hulls with a nerf incoming... i dont know how thats not illegal business practices.

  • Spaced kix
    Spaced kix
    Greenhorn
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 6

    Hello,
    I am a new player. I love this game the way it is now and don't see where are VC areas not working well...
    So sorry to say this but, to me, it's a pity you were asked to come back into the game...
    It's also a pity you don't care more about VC lovers than people who didn't like it. Do you think people who didn't like VC will come back after the (strategies cancellation) update?)
    One ship stat less, it will be easier for sure. Only armour-shield-weapon to fit and then let's go and see which one has the more armour installed on his ship, big big strategy thoughts coming.... I loved spending hours thinking how I could fit my fleets and determine against which kind of fleets I could use It, this will be finished soon. And furthermore, I will have repair time even when I will win if No shield regen??
    It looks like impossible to make you change your mind so let's see if you will regret more people who loved your game...

  • McEnzo
    McEnzo
    Greenhorn
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 10

    If i wanted to play a game where everything goes the same speed I would play Nascar... Maybe i can draft my dreads behind my gharial... oh wait there's no wind resistance...

  • CaptainCrust
    CaptainCrust
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 230
    Kixeye eye stating they will loose money on this is the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. They will, however loose a **** ton of customers, so I guess they loose money by proxy. But nothing in the changes, aside from scaring people away, are designed for kixeye to do anything other then actually make huge piles of money, hand over first, from those who stick around.
  • heff216
    heff216
    Potential Threat
    Joined Mar 2016 Posts: 79
    Award for funniest question on this post... here is my nominee... brendan.meredith.1 with:

    "You returned in August, When do you plan to leave again?"
  • CipherZero
    CipherZero
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 132

    Everything described would require to have be a complete new game that's looks just like Vega, but isn't due to stats changes and bogus reasons to have the game come out that way.

    Welp, seems there's nothing we can do to discourage these greedy punks from ending their own game.

    NOW we must do our part by getting refunds and writing horrible reviews on Steam, Google Play and the Apple Store.

    WE NEED TO START A MOVEMENT PEOPLE!
    Name it something catchy and have it spread!

  • Numero uno
    Numero uno
    Potential Threat
    Joined Apr 2015 Posts: 52
    wrong answers, clearly you didnot read the comments players left behind.
  • mason.dixen
    mason.dixen
    Master Tactician
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 2,156
    edited 9 Mar 2016, 5:29PM
    ScorpTron said:
    So what he said is that he does not care about the old PC players just the new mobile users! He is says he wants lower rep and higher damage ..... but is too stupid to realize that with the weight increases (since that is the only difference between ships) just went up! AND they are so high now you can but max every gun and still have room for MAX SHIELDS AND ARMOR....Either he is just stupid or truly has not even looked.

    We ...the old players need to stop buying coins ... money talks....or we have no one to blame but ourselves. The faster this game becomes bankrupt the faster we will be able to get out of this addictive game and go play something fun.

    Break the trust of your loyal players....they will not trust you and that is what you have done. It is rare in the gaming world for the CO FOUNDER to defraud its players and take away in game items purchased.
    Not to mention what this update will do for their reviews.  I mean google and apple allow us to change those are anytime. 

    We can live with 2.5 

    Repair times - Hurts new players and well I am going to have a fun time killing a lot of noobs.  The
    The changes to mass - we can live with
    shields - we can live with
    Frigates - I am happy to see them come back and plan on building some eagles and huri
    Speed changes - Are upsetting and the biggest point of contention.
    The massive refit bill - Still undetermined I hear rumors that our CMs are fighting for us and its implied that we may get some form of discount so I don't have a honest answer other then the hull max mass/unladen mass was designed to prevent free refits.
    "Forged in the flames of the original 8k wars"
    "Participant in the Jova Crusades; the winning side"
    "I hate cargo fleets.  What else do you want me to say"
    "I attacked you because you stole my piece of cheesecake with cherry toppings."
    "The government has ordered me to harvest this farm.  Please be patient as your base is harvested."
    IGN: MasonD
    ~Condolences to all who share a similar name - there can only be one.
  • No..Beard
    No..Beard
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2010 Posts: 3,794
    Paul Preece, the orchestrator of Battle Pirate's demise. Does not even play Vega but thinks he knows what Vega needs? Ya .. OK ... welcome to 3 week builds and 5 day repairs by the end of the year. Good job Paul, this will be the second game you utterly destroy!
    To be fair, Paul presided over the CREATION of BP, and was largely responsible for why it was such a good game in the first place.

    I believe that it was their CEO who forced all of the 'monetization frenzy' that has poisoned the goose with the golden eggs.

    BP ID: 1038         WC ID: 1476        VC ID: 18589     Tome ID: 3698   

    image

  • CesarDemi
    CesarDemi
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2014 Posts: 959
    So all this was only a long post where the same **** that already destroyed a Kixeye game is now coming to destroy another one, speaking a lot and saying nothing at all but nonsense!

    Good job, you stupid moron. I'm sure you will make honor to your reputation and end up destroying VC just like you did with BP!

    And to all other morons spending money on this crappy company: this is how your money is invested... in screwing you all up!

    Like I said previously on other threads of this matter: I will sit, grab popcorn, and wait for the layoffs once everything falls down and the dust settles... And I will have way more fun than playing this now mediocre game.
  • Covenant Cruiser
    Covenant Cruiser
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2014 Posts: 60
    You're killing one of the most good game i've played in my entire life , and i'm not the only one , a lot of players love this game , and for their hard work what? you gonna f**k up the entire game? nice work kixeye........
    Submit or be Destroyer 
  • NovaStorm11011
    NovaStorm11011
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 513
    LXC , what Paul is saying about complexity makes no sense! If you were going for diversity wouldn't you give every ship it's own speed? Just my thought...
    image
  • Andres Larios99
    Andres Larios99
    Greenhorn
    Joined Dec 2015 Posts: 1

    So Pual if it not about the money,help out the community with these two options give every player 12500 free coins, or me give every player 7 days grace period for we can refit all of current ship's for free!

  • heff216
    heff216
    Potential Threat
    Joined Mar 2016 Posts: 79
    Is it possible to give away these IRC ships to long time players who skipped them the first time because it didn't make sense to grab them?  Maybe put it as a daily or use some lower price of blood amber in the blackmarket to make people feel better about basically making the right decision at the time but the wrong decision based on company changes?  It would go a long way to extending that olive branch to mid tier/ long term players who specifically skipped it due to them not being good ships.
  • mike.barker.378
    mike.barker.378
    Potential Threat
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 33
    ye make it boring so people can play on mobile everything the same speed is daft and to reduce dread mass by 2k is crazy just increase the others leave the dreads alone we have all spent time and money on these.
  • Duke of Dukes
    Duke of Dukes
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 68

    Everything described would require to have be a complete new game that's looks just like Vega, but isn't due to stats changes and bogus reasons to have the game come out that way.

    Welp, seems there's nothing we can do to discourage these greedy punks from ending their own game.

    NOW we must do our part by getting refunds and writing horrible reviews on Steam, Google Play and the Apple Store.

    WE NEED TO START A MOVEMENT PEOPLE!
    Name it something catchy and have it spread!


    Better Business  Bureau Complaint filled - Check

    Kixeye Support Ticket logged, that I won't let them close - Check

    Facebook Complaint filled - Check

    Steam Review completed - Check

    I agree, all should keep up the pressure through all these avenues.  Tear them down, until they provide refunds or make changes to what we are demanding.  If not, at least we are hurting their advertising, ratings and making them work through tickets if enough people keep doing this.

    Mobile gamers - Check out Astronest, fleet repairs are automatic, resources are automated and come back in minutes not hours.  It's an easy mobile game to play, and somewhat addicting and fun.  I encourage all players to provide other games to users in the message boards.  Elite Dangerous for the PC, Space Conflict for PC and Mobile etc.

  • longjohnsally
    longjohnsally
    Greenhorn
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 12

    I am open to changes to any game I play if it makes a stronger game in the long run.  I have no idea if the changes that are happening now will result in that, but I am willing to hang out a little longer to find out.

    Build and refitting-time issues have always struck me as a major prohibitive element in this game and do not appear to be addressed in a significant way by the new updates.  By far the most interesting aspect of the game for me is the potential to design ship builds and ship fleets for creative PVP and PVE.  With ship rebuild times as long as 3 days (up to 18 days for a fleet), and ship build times as long as 16 days (3 months for a fleet), there is no realistic way to test out different builds in any reasonable time.  It is way too easy to spend two months building a fleet only to find out that a new weapon or ship was introduced to render your fleet design meaningless, or as is most often the case, you just made a miscalculation that now takes two and a half weeks to fix.  

    This type of time commitment to this aspect of the game means that I spend most of my time waiting and not playing! 

    One has only to look at the huge drop in activity inbetween events to see that something is missing in the game.  Ultimately, the only realistic way for me to consider different builds is to replicate what others have already successfully done...dreadnarok fleets, auto fleets, etc.  This is hugely disappointing to me as someone who sees this as the most attractive part of the game.  Repair times also mean less playing time, as one fight and one destroyed fleet mean you will likely be waiting 6 to 12 hours before you can play again.  I can’t think of a single game I have ever played (and I am old) that has ever regularly forced me to stop playing as much as this one.  Usually I have to force myself to stop playing just so I can go get some work done (or some sleep).

    Imagine instead a scenario where tens of thousands of players are playing daily with different fleet/ship combinations, constantly surprising each other with new builds, and then returning just hours later with even better builds.   This would be an incredibly compelling reason to play…always trying to outdo the other guy or gal with a better build or improve your piloting to outmaneuver one’s opponents.  It would also be a reason to engage in more PVP as the stakes would be more reasonable.  As a guy with a full time job, I can’t count the number of times I’ve come home to sit down and play only to be destroyed by a higher level player in the first five minutes…forcing me to log off and go read a book instead.  So weird.

    Has there been any consideration to significantly lowering build and refitting times?  I see repair times coming down a little (depending on builds), and I have heard that some initial build times would be lowered, but neither of these in enough capacity to overcome what I see as a major deterrent for new and old players alike.

  • Jell-0
    Jell-0
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 75
    CM LXC said:
    Hey rebels,

    Over the last few days, I've been collecting and collating some of your responses to the great rebalance. I promised an explanation from the person in charge of these changes, and here it is. I've rephrased the questions somewhat, but I feel it keeps the original spirit.

    For those of you who don't know who he is, Paul Preece is one of the original founders of KIXEYE, and original creator of Battle Pirates.

    Blue is me, Orange is Paul.

    What is the point of this change?

    To find the reason for the changes we have to go back in time, to when VC was first created. When KIXEYE first imagined VC it was as a space themed version of a PC game we had previously created called Battle Pirates. It’s not in our DNA to simply clone games, even one of our own, so we purpose built VC from the ground up as a true PC space game. In the process creating a bunch of new features such as combat strafing, hull classes, weapon arcs, planets, moving PvE fleets, interception, wormholes, shields, mines, asteroids and factions. As is often the case when creating new things, some of them work well, some… not so well. We’ll come back to the not-so-well bit in a minute.


    At the same time as we were launching VC on PC, games were exploding onto a different device entirely: the phone. As VC was our latest and greatest game we decided to create a mobile version of it as our first proper excursion onto the mobile platform. We also decided that the mobile version of VC was not going to be a different game, dumbed down for mobile players, it was (and is) the exact same game as the PC version. Mobile players coexisting and competing with PC players in the same universe. Which is pretty cool and, as far as I’m aware, unique among realtime MMO games.


    Mobile has since gone on to become the largest platform for VC. However, designing and supporting an identical game across platforms that are so different in size, power and accessibility is not without its tradeoffs. Some aspects of the original PC game work well on mobile, some not so much.


    And this is where we catch up to today, or rather five months ago, when KIXEYE started to put some serious thought into addressing the areas of VC that were not working well.


    To you, the long time players, the game feels good as it is. It doesn’t feel broken or badly out of shape. You like playing the game - if you didn’t you wouldn’t have continued playing it month after month. And yet here am I saying it needs fixing. Well... we’re both right. As it turns out, you guys (and gals) are pretty unique. Out of the millions of people who have played VC, it really connected with a small, select subgroup of those people (you) who really enjoyed playing VC day after day, month after month. The majority of people didn’t find what they were looking for in VC and simply stopped playing. For those people, VC failed. It failed to be fun. It failed to be engaging day after day.


    And there lies the catch-22. Some of the aspects of the game that appeal to the current player base are the exact same aspects that frustrate or overload new players. To improve the experience for new players, and to grow VC, we have to alter the game to make it more attractive to new players. Sometimes, after considering all other options, this includes altering the game in a way that frustrates the current player base.


    We do not want you thinking that you are not important to us. Long time players are the lifeblood of the game. In many ways you are the game. However for VC to grow and entertain a new generation of players it must change and adapt. Ultimately we feel the result is worth the effort.


    Paul Preece

    Founder, KIXEYE

    Who in the dev team came up with this? They should be fired/stabbed/[Insert terrible thing here]:

    That would be me. As a huge fan of VC I want to see the game reach the highs I know it can. I returned to the game as Creative Director back in August, and while the current situation is definitely a low point, the features the team are currently working on are some of the most exciting I’ve seen in any of our games.  

    You’re removing the ships individuality/variety:

    We’re putting together another post to address this in more detail and with more data.


    You’re dumbing down the game, I like complexity.

    The game is getting more simple with regards to ship speeds, that is true. However there are different kinds of complexity. Speed is a very important stat. So important that it can override nearly all other stats except for Range. When that happens the game actually loses a ton of complexity, as the number of meaningful combat stats drops from many to few. Bringing more consistency to hull speeds should return more complexity than it takes as the number of meaningful stats increases. Over time, we expect more hull classes to become useful to more players.

    You’re only doing this for the money:

    This specific set of changes will most likely lose us money in the short term. We know we’ve lost the confidence of players by moving the goalposts and it will take time to rebuild it. None of the changes are designed to make money, they are designed to improve the accessibility of the game by better defining the meta.

    How can I feel safe investing time/money into the game when you can just change everything in a heartbeat?

    We decided the best approach was to get all the disruptive changes out in one go. To just rip the band-aid off. More disruptive in the short term but it sets us up to be more consistent in the longer term. One of our key goals for the future is to increase the longevity of ship builds across all classes. It is vital to the health of the game that ships have long, useful lives.


    LXC: Ok, this was Scarlett. Credit where it's due.

    Based on currently available information, it appears that several fleet repair times will actually be going up (https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/617254). Is there something we’re missing?

    The hull repair change will significantly shift the meta of ship design towards lower armor, high damage ships. As it does ship repair times will fall. We are planning on providing some assistance to players to help them adjust their equipment to the new meta.

    In the examples linked to above many of the ships have traded weaponry for armor and shields, which is the current meta. Those ships should now downgrade their shields and armor and take more weapons. As they do their repair times will drop. We will be monitoring builds to make sure this happens.

    Note, the ISC / Cruiser Armor bonus is ‘repair free’. An ISC ship with a 30% Armor bonus is not charged repair for the additional armor points.


    Paul is currently asleep, (and I'll be off shortly), but please leave your comments and questions below, and either he or I will get to them when we can. We read everything, so don't just link your previous forum thread. Remember that this is my bosses bosses boss, so keep it on topic and constructive. 
    I think change is needed to keep the game fresh. I think after we all adjust the game will be more accessible. Having said that I think more needs to be done to address the need for the longer term players to do refits. A one time refit for overweight ships won't cover anything. I would suggest a free refit for every current ship(excluding naked hulls). At least throw something to people  have a few years invested in the game.
  • MuffinHell84
    MuffinHell84
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 59
    edited 9 Mar 2016, 5:58PM

    I'm going to risk sticking my head above the parapet and say that I appreciate both @CM LXC and Paul taking the time to respond with the reasoning behind some of the changes when it would be easier just to hide from the angry mob.

    Although I still have concerns over some of the changes they do make more sense in this context. Certainly enough that I'm willing to see how things pan out first. The point on speed currently being king is spot on and I can see the logic in shifting modifiers off hulls to equipment where trade-offs have to be made as part of the fitting.

    What I'd really be interested in hearing about would any plans to restore some of the variety lost by the planned normalisation. This is especially important for ships like the Destiny that don't fit nicely in the new system due the weapon/special slots they sacrifice by design for their previous niche (kiting and killing low level fleets).

  • John Jones22
    John Jones22
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2015 Posts: 3,291

    This idiot should have stayed away. The game got really **** when he came back. Crafting is what was driving people away. I played this game from day one on mobile and now have a lvl44 base and kickass ships. If the speed changes go through I will probably quit. The coward couldnt even come on and talk with the players. We have had a million riots. Anyone wanting the ships could get them all during the riots. There is no way they can honestly say nerfing the hell out of all the ships is good for anyone. What a terrible company kix is. I will never spend another dime on any kix game. There is no other reason than greed to nerf speed of ragnarok and all carriers to 200 so they cant do events. There is no reason but greed to lessen our crafted ships then boost the hell out of isc ships so kix can sell more craft deals. They gave us none of the things we wanted. We wont get lower repair times with a fleet bay 11. How does a fleet bay 11 help new players? How does nerfing auto fleets help new players? How does significantly increasing the rep time of shields help new players? How can kix even claim to care about us the players when we dont get free instant refits on all our ships?

  • donglongwang
    donglongwang
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 56

    In economics, there is a well documented phonomon called loss aversion. You see it in kids all the time. Give them a toy, say a matchbox dump truck . Then after they have had it awhile, tell them, I have a new, but don't tell them it's a tonka. Tell them It's super cool, yellow, BIG! But, you have to give up your old toy to get it. 99% of the time, kids will be too scared of losing their old toy to take a risk on the new, no matter how much better.

    This is what is happening here. People are scared of losing their old toy. The new one is scary because I have to learn how to do things again. This is because NO ONE understands what the changes will be. This is not ALL of the changes. And I am confident that over time, it will prove better than before. But no one can predict the creative ways people will use these updates, therefore making your 'game breaking' arguments moot. People are just scared because their dreadnaroks won't be the most powerful thing around anymore, and aren't interested in trying something new.

    Isn't everyone tired of building and battling only cutters and dreadnaroks because speed and range are the only things that matter?

    The only legitimate point anyone has made is in regards to refitting fleets. We really should have an opportunity to refit under the new meta, since so much time/money was used fitting/building for the old.

    Ok, ready to receive hate filled accusations and immature comments because I challenged you to in a new way that you don't want. Let the childishness commence!

  • donglongwang
    donglongwang
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jun 2015 Posts: 56

    @mason.dixen said:
    ScorpTron said:

    So what he said is that he does not care about the old PC players just the new mobile users! He is says he wants lower rep and higher damage ..... but is too stupid to realize that with the weight increases (since that is the only difference between ships) just went up! AND they are so high now you can but max every gun and still have room for MAX SHIELDS AND ARMOR....Either he is just stupid or truly has not even looked.

    We ...the old players need to stop buying coins ... money talks....or we have no one to blame but ourselves. The faster this game becomes bankrupt the faster we will be able to get out of this addictive game and go play something fun.

    Break the trust of your loyal players....they will not trust you and that is what you have done. It is rare in the gaming world for the CO FOUNDER to defraud its players and take away in game items purchased.

    Not to mention what this update will do for their reviews.  I mean google and apple allow us to change those are anytime. 

    We can live with 2.5 

    Repair times - Hurts new players and well I am going to have a fun time killing a lot of noobs.  The
    The changes to mass - we can live with
    shields - we can live with
    Frigates - I am happy to see them come back and plan on building some eagles and huri
    Speed changes - Are upsetting and the biggest point of contention.
    The massive refit bill - Still undetermined I hear rumors that our CMs are fighting for us and its implied that we may get some form of discount so I don't have a honest answer other then the hull max mass/unladen mass was designed to prevent free refits.

    Mason.dixon, thank you so much for being objective. It's refreshing after going through nothing but hate splurge!

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