So..... Kixeye asked<<snipped>>persevering with going into 2016.
Maybe read it a bit more, they stated a lot but not all of this will be coming in December.... I am actually happy with this post, as it shows a lot of thought has gone into this not just a whim of an ill thought out solution... and Some of this is massive change that can take up to 6 months to code... 3 mths to research redesign code and test was never going to happen, some changes are coming, good... and we have outlines of other linger term items in progress.... not there yet but this is a massive step inthe right direction
SO, are you a troll from kixeye or what???!!!!....how would YOU know how long it takes to code this unless you ARE from kixeye!!!!! Or, you're a hacker and know exactly what is in the code!!!
The only thing I saw was a WHOOPING 2% DROP in repair! Really?? REALLY????? Yup, sounds like the same old sh*t to me.....
You want to take some of the crap out of this game?, then GET RID OF FLEET CAPTAINS!!! All that is is a way for you to bring new players to BP and if you don't, then "YOU" or "WE" ARE THE ONES THAT GET PENALIZED!!! Just give us the **** 10% and drop this crap of having to be recruiters for Harbin!!!
And another thing you can help the players with is GET RID of all these pop ups!! Crap like, "this level of salvage fleet is way above your level captain, are you sure you want to attack?" Put this junk in settings and let us turn it off if we want to!!! And this ugly HUGE black banner covering up a 1/5th of the screen when your mouse touches the screen top needs to be able to be turned off ALSO!! You seen it once, that's enough, MAKE IT CONFIGURABLE!!!!! I for one am tired of seeing this worthless crap over and over and over again!!!!!
I will say, being able to fix your fleet while AT SEA ***WAS A GREAT IDEA AND I LOVE IT!!!!!*** Though why you left out being able to LAUNCH a fleet in the same manner is beyond me!!! You want us to hit bases, you want us to have FvF fights which ultimately brings DAMAGE to BOTH sides and then they'll need REPAIRED, which brings in more gold?? Let us LAUNCH FLEETS FROM SEA ALSO!!!!! Whats the point of having go INTO your base to launch a fleet??? Many GOOD and GREAT battles come from "spur of the moment" thoughts like, "sink my fu*king fleet will ya??!!!!!, I'll show your as*!!!" And the battle is ON!!! You introduce all this TECH stuff for the ships, but apparently you left out the *middles ages" or at least THE "bronze" age of simple radios to CALL FOR HELP, as in LAUNCHING ANOTHER FLEET. OR DIDN'T ANYONE THINK OF THIS??!!??!! GEESH!!!!!
AND, with all these NEW changes, I certainly HOPE you TEST THIS SH|T BEFORE MAKING IT LIVE!!!!!!!!! WE certainly DO NOT NEED additional GLITCHES in this **** game!!!!! TEST, TEST, TEST!!!! AND THEN TEST SOME MORE!!!
How does the weekly fit into your goal of reducing chores? You have a vocal camp that says 50 mil is fine, a vocal camp that says 50 mil is too much and a vocal camp that includes me that says 50 mil is attainable but boring as hell and time intensive.
^^^This **** right here.
50 mill x2 is doable for me. I am caught up If I take the TIME I can do it for very little damage, or I can 'rush' and do it for moderate damage and a little less time. Either way is BORING AS HELL and still takes time. Twice. For tech that is not elite and is required by Kix's coding in order to become/remain viable in the game. Knock this crap off.
If you want to keep the lie going about it being elite, up the points in an 85. If you want to be honest, halve the points requirement.
+1 Carlo, I totally agree. 50 mil x 2 is just plain STUPID!! But, YES, if you want to remain able to hit some of these bases, you HAVE TO HAVE these weapons and specials, and I don't see that *need* changing, EVER!!!!!!
So..... Kixeye asked<<snipped>>persevering with going into 2016.
Maybe read it a bit more, they stated a lot but not all of this will be coming in December.... I am actually happy with this post, as it shows a lot of thought has gone into this not just a whim of an ill thought out solution... and Some of this is massive change that can take up to 6 months to code... 3 mths to research redesign code and test was never going to happen, some changes are coming, good... and we have outlines of other linger term items in progress.... not there yet but this is a massive step inthe right direction
SO, are you a troll from kixeye or what???!!!!....how would YOU know how long it takes to code this unless you ARE from kixeye!!!!! Or, you're a hacker and know exactly what is in the code!!!
The only thing I saw was a WHOOPING 2% DROP in repair! Really?? REALLY????? Yup, sounds like the same old sh*t to me.....
You want to take some of the crap out of this game?, then GET RID OF FLEET CAPTAINS!!! All that is is a way for you to bring new players to BP and if you don't, then "YOU" or "WE" ARE THE ONES THAT GET PENALIZED!!! Just give us the **** 10% and drop this crap of having to be recruiters for Harbin!!!
And another thing you can help the players with is GET RID of all these pop ups!! Crap like, "this level of salvage fleet is way above your level captain, are you sure you want to attack?" Put this junk in settings and let us turn it off if we want to!!! And this ugly HUGE black banner covering up a 1/5th of the screen when your mouse touches the screen top needs to be able to be turned off ALSO!! You seen it once, that's enough, MAKE IT CONFIGURABLE!!!!! I for one am tired of seeing this worthless crap over and over and over again!!!!!
I will say, being able to fix your fleet while AT SEA ***WAS A GREAT IDEA AND I LOVE IT!!!!!*** Though why you left out being able to LAUNCH a fleet in the same manner is beyond me!!! You want us to hit bases, you want us to have FvF fights which ultimately brings DAMAGE to BOTH sides and then they'll need REPAIRED, which brings in more gold?? Let us LAUNCH FLEETS FROM SEA ALSO!!!!! Whats the point of having go INTO your base to launch a fleet??? Many GOOD and GREAT battles come from "spur of the moment" thoughts like, "sink my fu*king fleet will ya??!!!!!, I'll show your as*!!!" And the battle is ON!!! You introduce all this TECH stuff for the ships, but apparently you left out the *middles ages" or at least THE "bronze" age of simple radios to CALL FOR HELP, as in LAUNCHING ANOTHER FLEET. OR DIDN'T ANYONE THINK OF THIS??!!??!! GEESH!!!!!
AND, with all these NEW changes, I certainly HOPE you TEST THIS SH|T BEFORE MAKING IT LIVE!!!!!!!!! WE certainly DO NOT NEED additional GLITCHES in this **** game!!!!! TEST, TEST, TEST!!!! AND THEN TEST SOME MORE!!!
really? you determine Liam must be a hacker or working for kixeye just because he has the common sense to realize, it takes time to research what options are available for kixeye , then implement what kixeye think its best.
so I guess I must be working for kixeye as well , since I would say it take kixeye ages to fix as well, nothing to do with my 14 year programming experience, I must work for kixeye or hack and seen the code
kixeye did state they looked into the repair times and decided they was too high in the orginial post in this thread.
I do however agree the 2% repair figure does concern me too, an I do feel that actions speak louder than words.
talking about actions, some of the things kixeye has done recently has led to my hellstrikes going from 23 hour repair down to 18 1/2 hours, its still TOO HIGH, but its a start.
I would have preferred to see the reduction that shipyard 2 and 3 gives on build times to be increased, which show me that kixeye are really serious.
How does the weekly fit into your goal of reducing chores? You have a vocal camp that says 50 mil is fine, a vocal camp that says 50 mil is too much and a vocal camp that includes me that says 50 mil is attainable but boring as hell and time intensive.
^^^This **** right here.
50 mill x2 is doable for me. I am caught up If I take the TIME I can do it for very little damage, or I can 'rush' and do it for moderate damage and a little less time. Either way is BORING AS HELL and still takes time. Twice. For tech that is not elite and is required by Kix's coding in order to become/remain viable in the game. Knock this crap off.
If you want to keep the lie going about it being elite, up the points in an 85. If you want to be honest, halve the points requirement.
+1 Carlo, I totally agree. 50 mil x 2 is just plain STUPID!! But, YES, if you want to remain able to hit some of these bases, you HAVE TO HAVE these weapons and specials, and I don't see that *need* changing, EVER!!!!!!
100% agree here, 50 mil 2 x is doable but its soo boring, I was more happy to have week off the mission than the actual raid last week.
i find it hard to believe that it takes that long to change codes that they work with constantly.... plus look how much time they have had to figure it out.... oh thats right they waited to bleed as much as they could from players.... but now they want to fix it at their pace ... since the admittance of the bad play of the game and there promise to fix it they had oct nov and dec not much done (very little progress) if not fixed by march thats 6 months i doubt i will ever coin again
they did do something about ship build times in a way. look at the build times for just the hull. most are 5 day builds for just the hull. but the rhino is a 2 day 12 hour build for the hull. one of the most powerful ships in the game with the shortest build time in the game for any of the newer ships.
they did do something about ship build times in a way. look at the build times for just the hull. most are 5 day builds for just the hull. but the rhino is a 2 day 12 hour build for the hull. one of the most powerful ships in the game with the shortest build time in the game for any of the newer ships.
2.5 days for the hull. But add everything else ( weapons, armor, specials ) and it's still an 18 day build. A 5 ship fleet is still 90 days ( 3 months! ) . And as always, you know what that fleet is going to be worth after 3 months right? Mediocre at best! Kix didn't change a thing. They just moved the build time factor from the hull to all the weapons and armor and such. Bait and switch again.
ok when the 60s armadas came out there was like a endless horde of them now theres hardly any and i do mean extremly few its all 75s whats up with that most cant do 75s not getting enough money again? far as im concerned your state of the game is full of it
they did do something about ship build times in a way. look at the build times for just the hull. most are 5 day builds for just the hull. but the rhino is a 2 day 12 hour build for the hull. one of the most powerful ships in the game with the shortest build time in the game for any of the newer ships.
2.5 days for the hull. But add everything else ( weapons, armor, specials ) and it's still an 18 day build. A 5 ship fleet is still 90 days ( 3 months! ) . And as always, you know what that fleet is going to be worth after 3 months right? Mediocre at best! Kix didn't change a thing. They just moved the build time factor from the hull to all the weapons and armor and such. Bait and switch again.
blade is 10hrs, far shorter than older weapons.new UAV 9hrs, far shorter than older weapons. Hopefully when the build rebalance phase 1 is introduced these will conme down more ont eh older ones and armours
Yes it's not good if you want to build a new ship for that one so much time needs, there are little help on how to best build the ship....:/
yu build it with minimum amount of specials and only some d2e armours and say for example 8 new bonber uavs on the new uav carrier . get t ranking put another th same in the oven .. repeat when 1 is ranked add th missing specials and wepons . this is the most efficcient way to rank and build with limited coins allowing you to speed up a day or 2 here and ther when able
People complained there was to many chores in the game. - You came up with more chores.
People complained about content overload - You keep introducing new content.
State of game: BROKEN
these dont have to be done over and over, one done the benefit stays, this is standard in any progression time based game format. some will like additional options to play with some wont... last week we had threads complaining about lack of new content... so never gonna keep everyone happy
People complained there was to many chores in the game. - You came up with more chores.
People complained about content overload - You keep introducing new content.
State of game: BROKEN
these dont have to be done over and over, one done the benefit stays, this is standard in any progression time based game format. some will like additional options to play with some wont... last week we had threads complaining about lack of new content... so never gonna keep everyone happy
I might be wrong, but as I recall it: The majority of those who complained was people who could not make it to Elite. But they had everything in T3.
People complained there was to many chores in the game. - You came up with more chores.
People complained about content overload - You keep introducing new content.
State of game: BROKEN
these dont have to be done over and over, one done the benefit stays, this is standard in any progression time based game format. some will like additional options to play with some wont... last week we had threads complaining about lack of new content... so never gonna keep everyone happy
I might be wrong, but as I recall it: The majority of those who complained was people who could not make it to Elite. But they had everything in T3.
the stuff they moved down should help them get to Elite now. personally i tink interception and GM going to T3 are huge for the mid lvl players
In our ongoing effort to improve transparency and improve the game itself, we plan on presenting quarterly state of the game posts to open up a discussion about the direction of Battle Pirates. This is the first of these missives and we have a lot to talk about. We’re excited to share with you our plans for next year and discuss what you’ll be seeing in the future, starting right now, in December.
We are most excited about the future of Battle Pirates, and the features coming in 2016. In preparation, and in response to the community, it is essential the game is in a healthy state. This is true now, more than ever. The team is embarking on this essential mission right now.
Here’s what we want to focus on, moving into the new year.
Overpriced Builds and Refits
Because of the increased fleet size, increases to costs per component, as well as an increase in the number of slots on ships, build and refit costs have become inflated. Since no one singular feature will fix this problem in the short-term, we’ve come up with a solution that we believe will reduce costs and see to it that they never get wildly out-of-control again. Here are the changes:
Weapons, armors, specials, and tacticals are assigned build time based on the weight they add to the ship (no more Negotiator Mortar problem).
Components that are often refit will be given a lower time cost and a Uranium cost.
This is intended to lower refit costs and allow for more active refits.
Includes light weapons, specific resist specials, countermeasures, armors, and role-centric specials (including sonar)
Hull build costs will be based on ship weight capacity with two exceptions:
Some older ships have higher-than-normal capacity and will be discounted
Ships with unique effects (such as the Aegis) will have the hidden value of that effect factored into its build cost
The new research system will offer multiple opportunities to lower shipyard build costs with the intention that build costs fluctuate around a current standard cost while also lowering the cost of old hulls and tech automatically.
Return of Research
Starting at Outpost 6, players will have the opportunity to complete new in-game objectives provided by Harlock, Brennus, and Zoey. These new objectives unlock research options that provide permanent global bonuses. Here’s an example:
Critical Technology: Draconian Shipyard
“The Dracs seem to have an endless supply of new ships. Raid their bases and destroy their shipyards. Bring back enough salvage and steal their tech.” - Brennus
Salvage Draconian Shipyard Shards: 0/10
Research Time: 24 hours
Effect: Shipyard Build Times Reduced by 2%
Most objectives will come out in December with additional objectives to follow quarterly. Each permanent effect will stack, helping to stop escalating costs and reduce costs as hulls and components age.
Overpowered Weapons
2015 has seen extreme jumps in the power of weapons, most notably the Arbalest, Antipode Launcher, and Blade Missile. This has left many weapons well behind the power-curve, causing many players to have larger than intended repair times from more recent targets. We’re conducting a game-wide weapon rebalance to bring more weapons and weapon categories back into use, so that the targets we build for don’t feel impossible for those with less recent weapon tech. Basically, if you don’t have the hottest new weapon, you can still be competitive in the game.
We will not be nerfing any weapons!
Top tier weapons will still be at the top.
Weapon weight will be more important to understanding the power of a weapon than it is today (especially on older components).
Damage and reload will be structured so that weapon categories exist for roles such as:
Weapons that are not as dependant on VXP
Weapons that can penetrate high defenses
Weapons that overload countermeasures
Cheaters and Exploits
We’re continuing to identify and solve cheats and exploits within Battle Pirates. While some of these cases are design related (such as the use of multiple rockets to kill an outpost), many are due to the nature of BP’s code base and may take longer to solve. Creating a fair playing field is critical as it allows us to better tune the experience for all players. We’re committed to identifying and making fixes as efficiently as possible.
Most recently, this includes a remedy to prevent players from using illegitimate ships and illegitimately overpowered ships.
Sector Threat
One of our goals is to reduce the need to schedule your life around Battle Pirates and create more dynamic gameplay based around player activity and interest rather than creating “chores”. With Reavers leaving the sectors and a return of Draconian control, we’ve taken the opportunity to replace scheduled Dredge fleets with player trigger-able Draconian Armadas and the soon-to-be released Uranium Bases.
Sector threat will also be a gateway to new blueprints, including a new line of Draconian Mega-Hulls that players will be able to unlock and build.
VXP
The original goal of VXP was to reward players for playing with their ships, but it has become one of the most important stats in the game. In the short term, we plan to run VXP events more frequently to allow players access to the much-needed veterancy experience. We’re also working on new ideas for VXP including:
Reducing the power gained by new hulls from VXP, while providing them a default reload bonus
Allowing newly built hulls to start at a higher VXP level based on objectives
Altering the bonuses that VXP provides to be per hull
With these changes our goal is to return VXP to being a bonus rather than a necessity.
Repair Times
Arguably, the largest pain point from the community has been the cost of repair in the game. We have been exploring this problem from every angle and have several proposals for how to tackle it. All of our data confirms what you already know: the cost of repair is too **** high!
We are looking at this data to formulate a specific and actionable plan to reduce the cost of repair in the game. There are a number of different approaches we are looking at for this topic. Here are some examples:
Reducing the time cost for armors
Purchasable reductions to repair
Increasing VXP specialist packs and reductions
These are just a sample of some of the directions we are considering at this time. We want to make sure that we are addressing all concerns regarding this topic. We are currently discussing how best to implement these changes and hope to have more specifics on this announcement very, very soon.
Base Attacking Rewards
The cost of base hitting is too high and the rewards for base attacking are too low and it often feels unfair to lower level players. We plan to use the new research system to motivate competitive base attacks and competitive base defenses while lowering the cost of both. More details soon.
This State of the Game is focused primarily on core balance issues and system improvements for the health of the game. Currently, this is the most important priority for us. This missive focuses on what we know needs the most work, hence its size and scope. Future State of the Game updates will shift to a focus on upcoming features and roadmap discussions, but this message, we wanted to let you know that we are working very hard to get Battle Pirates to a balanced state. Again, this is what we are most excited about as we prepare to go into 2016 and we think these changes will bring Battle Pirates to a whole new level.
Your feedback is crucial to the design process and we always appreciate the feedback you provide. We’ll continue to update you on our progress towards a renewed, more exciting, and more fun Battle Pirates and keep you in the loop through the forums and previews moving forward.
Nothing on retrofits even though it's been 3 months now we can't get any update? January cm doom? I am excited for the new features but I am hearing nothing regarding retrofits here are they gone for good or are we waiting till January to hear more about them?
You're confusing this with a WIP.
I know the difference and I have read what is in the dev's statement it mentioned repair specialists but nothing on retrofits that is why I am asking but I am sure that I will get no response like the last time I tried to ask.
I have been stuck in battle in a Drac base for about 2 hours.....this is the 2nd time today...the 1 st time i switched from FB to Kikeye and it reset ....as if nothing had occured....your reporting system for bugs is inaccessible to me and i am tired of wasting my time on this . It appears that you only service the coiners.
the stuff they moved down should help them get to Elite now. personally i tink interception and GM going to T3 are huge for the mid lvl players
Totally agree, it a giant step forward to those who couldn't do Elite
However, for the low-/non-coiners who can do the Elite twice the addition of 4 prizes counts towards "content overload", as it push back when they can claim tokens.
This goes for all players, non-coiner. low coiners & heavy coiners: - All those who can do Elite twice but miss out on a weekly or two due to REAL LIFE things, they will be set back in tech.
Game should NOT be about "only being able to keep up" if you participate in a huge list of chores. - Get out on vacation and miss out on 3 weekly = A setback of more weeks than you where away from game. --- This is just for the Tech, but they will also miss out on at several days of tokens.
Miss out on 3 weekly in January = 4 Prizes behind February start with 4 more prizes = you need to claim 8 Prizes With 3 weekly's between raid you are still short of 2 Prizes when March starts. March introduces 4 more prizes = you need to claim 6 prizes.
First in the weekly in APRIL you are good to go on the tech.
Now add tokens: Miss out on 6-10 days of Tokens in january Miss out on 6-10 days of Tokens in february Miss out on 6-10 days of Tokens in march 18-30 days SHORT of the other players.
Chores Michael, the simplicity is where you have to conduct basic items to enter the game like a performing seal :-) Chores - a task essential to overall gaming? Whatever next, surely not jumping through hoops to play :-).
This statement from your developer: "One of our goals is to reduce the need to schedule your life around Battle Pirates and create more dynamic gameplay based around player activity and interest rather than creating “chores”'. The newly added objectives is another chore requiring us to get even more uranium, which has now become endless. Where on forums did we say we want more chores and those chores to be tied to getting uranium only? I did not see any. The abuse of having to need uranium for everything now is ridiculous. The player base wants build/repair/refit times to decrease, but to have that being tied to having uranium and acquiring it, is pointless. We are going 2 steps backwards instead of forwards. Rethink this nonsense.
The only thing I saw was a WHOOPING 2% DROP in repair! Really?? REALLY????? Yup, sounds like the same old sh*t to me.....
You want to take some of the crap out of this game?, then GET RID OF FLEET CAPTAINS!!! All that is is a way for you to bring new players to BP and if you don't, then "YOU" or "WE" ARE THE ONES THAT GET PENALIZED!!! Just give us the **** 10% and drop this crap of having to be recruiters for Harbin!!!
And another thing you can help the players with is GET RID of all these pop ups!! Crap like, "this level of salvage fleet is way above your level captain, are you sure you want to attack?" Put this junk in settings and let us turn it off if we want to!!! And this ugly HUGE black banner covering up a 1/5th of the screen when your mouse touches the screen top needs to be able to be turned off ALSO!! You seen it once, that's enough, MAKE IT CONFIGURABLE!!!!! I for one am tired of seeing this worthless crap over and over and over again!!!!!
I will say, being able to fix your fleet while AT SEA ***WAS A GREAT IDEA AND I LOVE IT!!!!!*** Though why you left out being able to LAUNCH a fleet in the same manner is beyond me!!! You want us to hit bases, you want us to have FvF fights which ultimately brings DAMAGE to BOTH sides and then they'll need REPAIRED, which brings in more gold?? Let us LAUNCH FLEETS FROM SEA ALSO!!!!! Whats the point of having go INTO your base to launch a fleet??? Many GOOD and GREAT battles come from "spur of the moment" thoughts like, "sink my fu*king fleet will ya??!!!!!, I'll show your as*!!!" And the battle is ON!!! You introduce all this TECH stuff for the ships, but apparently you left out the *middles ages" or at least THE "bronze" age of simple radios to CALL FOR HELP, as in LAUNCHING ANOTHER FLEET. OR DIDN'T ANYONE THINK OF THIS??!!??!! GEESH!!!!!
AND, with all these NEW changes, I certainly HOPE you TEST THIS SH|T BEFORE MAKING IT LIVE!!!!!!!!! WE certainly DO NOT NEED additional GLITCHES in this **** game!!!!! TEST, TEST, TEST!!!! AND THEN TEST SOME MORE!!!
+1 Carlo, I totally agree. 50 mil x 2 is just plain STUPID!! But, YES, if you want to remain able to hit some of these bases, you HAVE TO HAVE these weapons and specials, and I don't see that *need* changing, EVER!!!!!!
so I guess I must be working for kixeye as well , since I would say it take kixeye ages to fix as well, nothing to do with my 14 year programming experience, I must work for kixeye or hack and seen the code
kixeye did state they looked into the repair times and decided they was too high in the orginial post in this thread.
I do however agree the 2% repair figure does concern me too, an I do feel that actions speak louder than words.
talking about actions, some of the things kixeye has done recently has led to my hellstrikes going from 23 hour repair down to 18 1/2 hours, its still TOO HIGH, but its a start.
I would have preferred to see the reduction that shipyard 2 and 3 gives on build times to be increased, which show me that kixeye are really serious.
this NEEDS too change.
It needs dropped to 30 million.
but the rhino is a 2 day 12 hour build for the hull. one of the most powerful ships in the game with the shortest build time in the game for any of the newer ships.
2.5 days for the hull. But add everything else ( weapons, armor, specials ) and it's still an 18 day build. A 5 ship fleet is still 90 days ( 3 months! ) . And as always, you know what that fleet is going to be worth after 3 months right? Mediocre at best! Kix didn't change a thing. They just moved the build time factor from the hull to all the weapons and armor and such. Bait and switch again.
- You came up with more chores.
People complained about content overload
- You keep introducing new content.
State of game: BROKEN
However, for the low-/non-coiners who can do the Elite twice the addition of 4 prizes counts towards "content overload", as it push back when they can claim tokens.
This goes for all players, non-coiner. low coiners & heavy coiners:
- All those who can do Elite twice but miss out on a weekly or two due to REAL LIFE things, they will be set back in tech.
Game should NOT be about "only being able to keep up" if you participate in a huge list of chores.
- Get out on vacation and miss out on 3 weekly = A setback of more weeks than you where away from game.
--- This is just for the Tech, but they will also miss out on at several days of tokens.
Miss out on 3 weekly in January = 4 Prizes behind
February start with 4 more prizes = you need to claim 8 Prizes
With 3 weekly's between raid you are still short of 2 Prizes when March starts.
March introduces 4 more prizes = you need to claim 6 prizes.
First in the weekly in APRIL you are good to go on the tech.
Now add tokens:
Miss out on 6-10 days of Tokens in january
Miss out on 6-10 days of Tokens in february
Miss out on 6-10 days of Tokens in march
18-30 days SHORT of the other players.
State of game: BROKEN due to excessive chores.
Whatever you're smoking, keep it the hell away from the rest of us.
-KB