25% increase in operation payout ..or.. why I am loosing the will to play

  • USMC_Sergeant_E5
    USMC_Sergeant_E5
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 1,591
    edited 25 May 2015, 4:09AM
    I only play games if they are fun and are worth paying for.   The way this game is going I will probably not play anymore.   We, the players make you money for the Kixeye company, not YOU.   You suppose to provide a fun experience in gaming not a choir or another job. 

    Kixeye has lost all aspect of true gaming with so much bullshit I cannot even begin to start(be too long of a list).   But Kixeye messed up lying to us that there was no repair added to the SF units which loads of players posted videos before and after the update on how much more damage the SF units are taking and repairing.

    1 shot from a sniper in a HZ30 casues the SF unit 5 mins repair time, it used to be 5 seconds.   My repairs from doing HZ30s went from less then 10 mins to 58 mins+, thats almost a 500% increase in repair time.   But CM Sulaco said nothing has changed and many videos were posted that it has.

    I will not respect a company that lies to us players because they think we are all retards and dont know what is going on with the game.
    Level 42 War Commander - Too many cheaters/hackers.
    Level 76 Battle Pirates - "Where is the dry dock at?"
    Level 41 Vega Conflict - Quit/Game sucks.
    1992-2002 - USMC Veteran - Semper Fi
  • SnakeFarm
    SnakeFarm
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2012 Posts: 718

    you might want to grab a hold of this




  • Apshaix
    Apshaix
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 293
    This is a great post, and I thank you for contributing it.

    We're taking serious looks at a lot of this stuff. We want there to be more consistent ways to learn and progress, so that when you hit the event it's not such a brick wall.

    Note that there are a lot of players who absolutely destroy the event bases with absolute ease. These players are playing the same event as people who cannot do that yet... so we have a big balance issue. We're going to try to be making it so that the event isn't so do or die, and that throughout the month you can (at your own pace) work towards some more content. (ex: more Operators in the Gear Store, etc.)


    But this is the same thing you've said in the past .. oh we know there are balance issues, oh we want to make it so events aren't do or die.  But every time you say that, you go and readjust the game to make it more difficult for everyone else except those people destroying the bases with absolute ease.  Oh the thorium bases weren't challenging enough.  Oh the Special Ops bases needed to be rebalanced for the new units.  On and on it goes, time and again .. you ignore the majority of the players who you say you want to let them do things at their own pace, and then go and make it near impossible for them to proceed without either spending coins or having to spend huge amounts of time in the game.  They can't proceed at their own pace as you keep setting the speed limit to high, higher, and highest (and if you can't keep up to bad suckers). 

    There seems to be a serious disconnect between what you say and what you practice.  You say you want all the players to have a chance to experience the joys of your new preserver units.  But you set the event stages and unit prices such that the average player cannot complete them or compete.  Heck look at this event.  You started off having to reduce difficulty, then again, then again to remove all preserver units, and finally a "boost" to xp.  Doesn't this say to you that you do NOT know what you are doing and your planning and testing process for events is seriously flawed? 

    I'm sorry the game is so out of balance but it's your own **** fault for continuing to introduce newer, bigger mega units that can flatten all the older units.  And yes that means no matter what you do the elite players with all the goodies will flatten your challenges like nothing, and all the other players will suffer, grow frustrated, and keep leaving.  But this game continues to die, daily usages of the game continues to drop, and you keep making the same mistakes over and over and over (and refuse to fix the existing flaws). 

    My prediction .. another round of employment cuts at Kixeye before Christmas.  Because you do not learn from your mistakes, you will keep making them.

  • ITS_Noob
    ITS_Noob
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 830
    I'm writing a large post in another thread, it's been about 45 minutes of writing so far. Sorry that I'm not replying more in depth to you guys.

    Forgive me for being brief to save time, but I'll tell you guys this:
    • This is an extremely rational, clear, well thought out thread, and I appreciate that. This is the kind of feedback that we can actually rely on, so good job and keep this kind of stuff coming
    • About the new units and their complexity, understood. I think there is some truth to this, but I think it's more about the speed at which this complexity has been introduced, and how there aren't exactly smooth paths for everyone.
    • About value vs. time/energy/money, absolutely understood
    • As for cheaters being the only ones who are winning easily-- this is not true. Not true at all. There are definitely cheaters winning easily, but it's not everyone... and as I said, cheating is very near a serious solution.
    I understand your side, and we'll keep working on these problems. The bottom line is I can't win you over with a post, all that I can say is we're aware of theses sentiments and will legitimately trying to address them as soon as possible.


    Very True Chris, you won't win anyone over with a post, the proof that kixeye actually cares about the survival of this game will be in "actions', not words. One point I disagree with you on about "players" destroying event bases easily, the cheaters are using hack accounts to open bases for "regular" players and has been recorded in many sectors. The way they are doing this definitely taints your data.  I think if you look a bit closer you'll see this.
  • Votan
    Votan
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 883
    Been playing on and off for a very long time so I'll add some observations.

    - Cheating is something that occurs in every single game.  The main difference being in how far the actual cheating has a direct negative impact on gameplay: in this case it is huge.  As other have mentioned before me the ease by which new cheat accounts are created is a huge issue; its like mopping the water of a broken water main without fixing it first - an exercise in futility.  Take out the source of the problem: cheat codes.

    - Rampant cheating is also a symptom that something is wrong.  In this case you already put your finger on the issue: balance.  There are huge imbalances in the game that need to be addressed in order for it to become enjoyable again.  Balance not only between the various levels - this could use some updating but also between the vast sea of units.  I remember when the mega tank was king; now we have so many tools at our disposal that its a chore to keep them all upgraded & workshopped.  More isn't necessarily better.

    - Overkill.  There is simply an overkill in units.  Some are utterly worthless - enforcer anyone?  There used to be a certain level of sense in unit progression but as of late that's more or less gone.  One can still see traces of it (FAV -> Scorpion).  Cutting down the sheer amount of units would not be a bad idea.

    - PvP vs Resource farming.  What I - and many others with me - miss is the large sector battles of yesteryear. All I notice now are relatively small fights that are more often than not spoiled by blatant cheaters. Also the need to farm resources has become so overbearing as to make PvP take a back seat.  A rather odd position for game game that purports to be a PvP game - even the name says it!

    - What's disturbed me is the growing backlog of bugs and errors that needs to be fixed.  The ratio of ones that are resolved/fixed is very low compared to the amount being added.  Slow down a little!
    Backyard Monsters - quit
    Battle pirates - quit
    Vega - quit
    WC - farming -_-
    Typical trend with kixeye games..

  • warinwar
    warinwar
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 764
    I'm writing a large post in another thread, it's been about 45 minutes of writing so far. Sorry that I'm not replying more in depth to you guys.

    Forgive me for being brief to save time, but I'll tell you guys this:
    • This is an extremely rational, clear, well thought out thread, and I appreciate that. This is the kind of feedback that we can actually rely on, so good job and keep this kind of stuff coming
    • About the new units and their complexity, understood. I think there is some truth to this, but I think it's more about the speed at which this complexity has been introduced, and how there aren't exactly smooth paths for everyone.
    • About value vs. time/energy/money, absolutely understood
    • As for cheaters being the only ones who are winning easily-- this is not true. Not true at all. There are definitely cheaters winning easily, but it's not everyone... and as I said, cheating is very near a serious solution.
    I understand your side, and we'll keep working on these problems. The bottom line is I can't win you over with a post, all that I can say is we're aware of theses sentiments and will legitimately trying to address them as soon as possible.


    Very True Chris, you won't win anyone over with a post, the proof that kixeye actually cares about the survival of this game will be in "actions', not words. One point I disagree with you on about "players" destroying event bases easily, the cheaters are using hack accounts to open bases for "regular" players and has been recorded in many sectors. The way they are doing this definitely taints your data.  I think if you look a bit closer you'll see this.

    ANSWER:

    It is also possible that "easy" means something else to us and Kixeye. If I take a wave in 15 minutes with 1-2 hours of repair, is it considered easy or not? Does it matter whether I spend there 1 or 6 missiles (resources costs)? It sounds easy, but it feels different if judged it from the perspective of having to take tens of such bases in a row rather than a single one.
  • AA-82
    AA-82
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 14,897
    warinwar said:

    ANSWER:
    It is also possible that "easy" means something else to us and Kixeye. If I take a wave in 15 minutes with 1-2 hours of repair, is it considered easy or not? Does it matter whether I spend there 1 or 6 missiles (resources costs)? It sounds easy, but it feels different if judged it from the perspective of having to take tens of such bases in a row rather than a single one.
    Well they are out of touch with reality & out of touch with their player base...
  • Apshaix
    Apshaix
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 293
    Votan said:
    Been playing on and off for a very long time so I'll add some observations.

    - Cheating is something that occurs in every single game.  The main difference being in how far the actual cheating has a direct negative impact on gameplay: in this case it is huge.  As other have mentioned before me the ease by which new cheat accounts are created is a huge issue; its like mopping the water of a broken water main without fixing it first - an exercise in futility.  Take out the source of the problem: cheat codes.

    - Rampant cheating is also a symptom that something is wrong.  In this case you already put your finger on the issue: balance.  There are huge imbalances in the game that need to be addressed in order for it to become enjoyable again.  Balance not only between the various levels - this could use some updating but also between the vast sea of units.  I remember when the mega tank was king; now we have so many tools at our disposal that its a chore to keep them all upgraded & workshopped.  More isn't necessarily better.

    - Overkill.  There is simply an overkill in units.  Some are utterly worthless - enforcer anyone?  There used to be a certain level of sense in unit progression but as of late that's more or less gone.  One can still see traces of it (FAV -> Scorpion).  Cutting down the sheer amount of units would not be a bad idea.

    - PvP vs Resource farming.  What I - and many others with me - miss is the large sector battles of yesteryear. All I notice now are relatively small fights that are more often than not spoiled by blatant cheaters. Also the need to farm resources has become so overbearing as to make PvP take a back seat.  A rather odd position for game game that purports to be a PvP game - even the name says it!

    - What's disturbed me is the growing backlog of bugs and errors that needs to be fixed.  The ratio of ones that are resolved/fixed is very low compared to the amount being added.  Slow down a little!
    The backlog is very likely a sign of how serious conditions must be getting at Kixeye.  I mean look at what is going on.  The release of people last year to cut costs.  No new announced games.  All their existing games bleeding players based on various web stats.  I mean overall they can't fix what they are running, can't control the cheats, and keep over compensating in the games to try and get players to spend money.  To me these are all signs of a company heading towards the edge of a cliff and refusing to acknowledge it (which since it's a private company no one will ever know the truth). 
  • Doberman 77
    Doberman 77
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 460
    I'm writing a large post in another thread, it's been about 45 minutes of writing so far. Sorry that I'm not replying more in depth to you guys.

    Forgive me for being brief to save time, but I'll tell you guys this:
    • This is an extremely rational, clear, well thought out thread, and I appreciate that. This is the kind of feedback that we can actually rely on, so good job and keep this kind of stuff coming
    • About the new units and their complexity, understood. I think there is some truth to this, but I think it's more about the speed at which this complexity has been introduced, and how there aren't exactly smooth paths for everyone.
    • About value vs. time/energy/money, absolutely understood
    • As for cheaters being the only ones who are winning easily-- this is not true. Not true at all. There are definitely cheaters winning easily, but it's not everyone... and as I said, cheating is very near a serious solution.
    I understand your side, and we'll keep working on these problems. The bottom line is I can't win you over with a post, all that I can say is we're aware of theses sentiments and will legitimately trying to address them as soon as possible.


    My wish - please CM Chris - lay the kindergarten, childish, Toy soldiers to rest ! - Do not continue with it making a bad idea worse - R.I.P - sentinels and preservers. 
  • O-dratsab
    O-dratsab
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 1,018
    There were signs a plenty that this event was shaping up to be a total disaster ;

    2 previous events with some positive reviews
    the statement about no preview server (a dead giveaway that players were in for a shock)
    the hurried preview (even bigger dead giveaway of how bad the event was going to be)
    the pre event changes to units (KIXEYE have form on this one , always indicates a bad event)
    the nerfs to suicide valks (no one believes that was anything other than intentional)
    the changes to SF repair times (yes another OMEN).


    I think this "REVELATION" event may be aptly named .. as it may be the point where KIXEYE finally starts to pay attention to players feedback.

    Time will tell...
  • Grumpy Pirate
    Grumpy Pirate
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 3,339
    Daz517 said:
    i see lots of comments on repair times, ok why not have a chance to win a spec op that would reduce repair time by 50% (if there is one i aint seen it before anyone jumps on this) 

    the event is overpowered, ok why not move back to the way it was in waves. That way each player can progress at his or her own pace like most of us had to when we first started? If not you have to seriously look at the amount of power you are placing in the bases which we attack. The defensive portions of this event is way easier than the last one and is about right for the xp, but the event bases are crazy, at least give us a chance to earn better spec ops we can use in the event and not the gat trucks to defend the base ....that cant get close enough to actually shoot!!!!

    two events ago i had my best ever i thought kixeye had cracked it, but the last one dropped back to the ridiculous and this is just a slap in the face of the games loyal players. 

    Cheaters/hackers, i will wait and see the result of the moves to prevent these guys dominating the forum topics, mine included.

    all the new toys coming out with every event, well im pretty sure we are all in the same boat when it comes to space to store these units, i am sacrificing units i still use from time to time for things i need for this event, and the units i am having to get rid of are shopped using thor which will cost me more thor when i build them again after event........

    to be honest i dont care on the gold issue i will not pay for a free game.....maybe thats why i never get listened to lol
    There isn't a spec op that reduces repair times, and to be honest I very much doubt we'll ever see one. Repairs are Kixeyes primary source of revenue (be it from events or just day-to-day) and Kixeye will never ever do anything that would jeopardize that money flow, even if it has a good shot at resulting in more money in the long term.

    Wave events have their own problems, largely that once a player hits a "wall" that they can't pass that's their event over and usually a 6 day event lasts no more than 2 in real terms unless you're a top end player, which not only disenfranchises players but loses Kixeye gold from potential repairs.
    Chances are tiers are here to stay because they make Kixeye more money and to be honest i'm fine with that - it allows players to put in chair time to get what they want if they're really determined, I for one hated the wave system toward the end of its reign because of all of the wave locked prizes and compulsory fortresses which more often than not were overpowered and had ridiculous time constraints.

    The April event was the best event they did since January for me - all they had to do this month was a similar event this month and it would have had rave reviews, instead they went overboard and made the worst event of the year so far. I can only hope they really learn from this disaster and dial it way back for June.

    I think pretty much everyone is waiting and seeing what this "big victory" against the cheaters will entail, personally i'm not going to get overly excited about it though, we've been promised big victories against cheaters before and ultimately it's only slowed them down and never stopped them.

    The space issue is a problem, however with the way Kixeye are killing older units with nerfs (unintentional or not) and "bugs" i'm finding myself just about managing with the space I have. My big concern with any space increase though is that it almost always involves jumping through thorium laden hoops and long upgrade times, especially now that Kixeye aren't afraid of doing both regardless of how much that pisses players off.

    I don't particularly care about the gold issue either - but it was worded really badly on the post and it wasn't made at all clear in the gold purchsing screens. Now the ticket system will be clogged up with people asking where their "bonus" gold is which will make genuine issues take (even) longer to get a response which is a problem for everyone, not to mention the amount of threads that appeared on here about the issue which made the mods lives more difficult. The worst of it was that problem was easily avoidable if had just taken the time to word it better.
  • Charles6744
    Charles6744
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Aug 2013 Posts: 1,527
      The problem with the event is that Kixeye nerfed the Special Forces the day before the event.  Forcing players to get the new Preserver units.  The only downside to them is that they increased their XP needed to level up and lowered the amount you can add to a unit.  You can only add 2 Preservers to the Lead Preserver.  I am not sure about the new Hero.  But their damage and health is greatly increased.  And it would of been nice to see some Preservers bundled together like the Riflemen were.
  • AA-82
    AA-82
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 14,897
    O-dratsab said:
    There were signs a plenty that this event was shaping up to be a total disaster ;

    2 previous events with some positive reviews
    the statement about no preview server (a dead giveaway that players were in for a shock)
    the hurried preview (even bigger dead giveaway of how bad the event was going to be)
    the pre event changes to units (KIXEYE have form on this one , always indicates a bad event)
    the nerfs to suicide valks (no one believes that was anything other than intentional)
    the changes to SF repair times (yes another OMEN).


    I think this "REVELATION" event may be aptly named .. as it may be the point where KIXEYE finally starts to pay attention to players feedback.

    Time will tell...
    LOL - no they won't.
    Their track record speaks for itself - as long as they can find 1 cheerleader they pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
  • AA-82
    AA-82
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 14,897
    Daz517 said:
    i see lots of comments on repair times, ok why not have a chance to win a spec op that would reduce repair time by 50% (if there is one i aint seen it before anyone jumps on this) 

    the event is overpowered, ok why not move back to the way it was in waves. That way each player can progress at his or her own pace like most of us had to when we first started? If not you have to seriously look at the amount of power you are placing in the bases which we attack. The defensive portions of this event is way easier than the last one and is about right for the xp, but the event bases are crazy, at least give us a chance to earn better spec ops we can use in the event and not the gat trucks to defend the base ....that cant get close enough to actually shoot!!!!

    two events ago i had my best ever i thought kixeye had cracked it, but the last one dropped back to the ridiculous and this is just a slap in the face of the games loyal players. 

    Cheaters/hackers, i will wait and see the result of the moves to prevent these guys dominating the forum topics, mine included.

    all the new toys coming out with every event, well im pretty sure we are all in the same boat when it comes to space to store these units, i am sacrificing units i still use from time to time for things i need for this event, and the units i am having to get rid of are shopped using thor which will cost me more thor when i build them again after event........

    to be honest i dont care on the gold issue i will not pay for a free game.....maybe thats why i never get listened to lol
    There isn't a spec op that reduces repair times, and to be honest I very much doubt we'll ever see one. Repairs are Kixeyes primary source of revenue (be it from events or just day-to-day) and Kixeye will never ever do anything that would jeopardize that money flow, even if it has a good shot at resulting in more money in the long term.

    Wave events have their own problems, largely that once a player hits a "wall" that they can't pass that's their event over and usually a 6 day event lasts no more than 2 in real terms unless you're a top end player, which not only disenfranchises players but loses Kixeye gold from potential repairs.
    Chances are tiers are here to stay because they make Kixeye more money and to be honest i'm fine with that - it allows players to put in chair time to get what they want if they're really determined, I for one hated the wave system toward the end of its reign because of all of the wave locked prizes and compulsory fortresses which more often than not were overpowered and had ridiculous time constraints.

    The April event was the best event they did since January for me - all they had to do this month was a similar event this month and it would have had rave reviews, instead they went overboard and made the worst event of the year so far. I can only hope they really learn from this disaster and dial it way back for June.

    I think pretty much everyone is waiting and seeing what this "big victory" against the cheaters will entail, personally i'm not going to get overly excited about it though, we've been promised big victories against cheaters before and ultimately it's only slowed them down and never stopped them.

    The space issue is a problem, however with the way Kixeye are killing older units with nerfs (unintentional or not) and "bugs" i'm finding myself just about managing with the space I have. My big concern with any space increase though is that it almost always involves jumping through thorium laden hoops and long upgrade times, especially now that Kixeye aren't afraid of doing both regardless of how much that pisses players off.

    I don't particularly care about the gold issue either - but it was worded really badly on the post and it wasn't made at all clear in the gold purchsing screens. Now the ticket system will be clogged up with people asking where their "bonus" gold is which will make genuine issues take (even) longer to get a response which is a problem for everyone, not to mention the amount of threads that appeared on here about the issue which made the mods lives more difficult. The worst of it was that problem was easily avoidable if had just taken the time to word it better.
    They have cranked up both the repair times (what do you think those overpowered defenses followed by the war factory that can reduce the space of units in your platoon with reducing the repair time to match was?) & the cost of gold for repairs, there is no reason why they can't cut them down to something reasonable.
  • Grumpy Pirate
    Grumpy Pirate
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 3,339
    edited 26 May 2015, 6:56PM
    AA-82 said:
    They have cranked up both the repair times (what do you think those overpowered defenses followed by the war factory that can reduce the space of units in your platoon with reducing the repair time to match was?) & the cost of gold for repairs, there is no reason why they can't cut them down to something reasonable.
    From our point of view, no there isn't, but for Kixeye it's something they'll never do, they won't risk short term income on the hope of greater longer term income.

    It's the same in all of their games, especially BP, where the only effort to reduce repair times was actually dependent on their version of the VXP system that special forces use, which for BP is even more heavily monetized than the VXP system is on WC.

    I get what you're saying, but Kix won't do it, they're just too focused on short term income rather than longer term sustainability.
  • The-Apocolypse
    The-Apocolypse
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2013 Posts: 194
    edited 26 May 2015, 9:59PM
    the balance issue is kix bank account vs ur card account they want ur card account empty,if you play enough online games u can clearly see kixeye nowhere near represents any value for money,The ingame hacking has always been here more so in the last 2 years in which kixeye have done nothing to introduce proper account control,why is this u ask? simples hacks create them cash income,why is it the even the largest of gaming companies with 10s of millions in online players can respond to a chat request or ticket usually within a day but it takes up to 5 days here,Why are the players only told of things that u think will benefit us a bit mopre transparency as to updates like the great sf nerf and the reasons for it may actually make ur devs a lil more popular.You want to have more pvp then quit with the never ending upgrade train ppl dont have the time to play on here for 3-4 hours everyday to keep up and ye thats what it takes as a minimum,Tell us why kix u expect these insane prices and repair times u apply when with what a lot ppl spend on a single event they could buy a new release xbox game with ease and have some variety?,I for one stopped a lot of regular coining here after the thor depos difficulty was increased,decreased after a multitude of complaints and then stealthily increased with one of those unoted updates you think we dont notice.frankly the never ending upgrade train isnt worth the cash spent vs fun gained equation,yes do run the events for a month,yes do cut your charges you might actually see that daily player online counter go up instead of down,yes do start using a bit of honesty when carrying out updates all updates,cos it just turns ppl against you and drives them away when u dont,yes do institute proper account control and other measures to cut down the hacking,im sure you know how to tie every account to an ip or seperate computer or gain proof of users where theres more than 1 player in a household   enjoy 
  • AA-82
    AA-82
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 14,897
    AA-82 said:
    They have cranked up both the repair times (what do you think those overpowered defenses followed by the war factory that can reduce the space of units in your platoon with reducing the repair time to match was?) & the cost of gold for repairs, there is no reason why they can't cut them down to something reasonable.
    From our point of view, no there isn't, but for Kixeye it's something they'll never do, they won't risk short term income on the hope of greater longer term income.

    It's the same in all of their games, especially BP, where the only effort to reduce repair times was actually dependent on their version of the VXP system that special forces use, which for BP is even more heavily monetized than the VXP system is on WC.

    I get what you're saying, but Kix won't do it, they're just too focused on short term income rather than longer term sustainability.
    Well at this point I'm just logging on long enough to keep the upgrades going, I'm not bubbling people or losing units on anything.
    This is the least I have played since I first started.
    If that's the way they want to go then I guess it really doesn't matter.
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