Mod responses to raid concerns

  • phroxenphyre
    phroxenphyre
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 5,342
    Cap'n Jim said:

    Can u post a vid please Batman?

    I won't be able to make one until I get home later tonight. I don't have video recording software at work.

    But honestly, it would just be a whole lot of my SWs dying, maybe a little bit of my zombie subs dying, then several minutes of my subs sitting in a corner doing nothing before you get to see me actually fighting something.

    Out of retirement
  • Major Kessler
    Major Kessler
    Master Tactician
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 2,124

    ..... The initial damage is incredibly high but that is easily mitigated by sending in a few waves of something small and easily repairable. The battle persists for a few seconds after you die so the Dracs and Reavers continue to kill each other off. 

    Yes indeed that's a good tactic.

    But please re-read what you have written in the light of getting a genuinely challenging gaming experience.

    "Run ships into the target so they all kill each other and when they're dead you can collect some points"

    It's monumentally frakking boring - it's like playing chess with an endless supply of pawns - you might eventually win but it's not much of a thrill doing so.

    Ah you say - but this way you get some good prizes - but what's the point in getting better ships if you never have to use them because all you need is an endless supply of gunboats - which you got back at the very start.......

    Why bother with Limited Edition Hulls, 3 month build times, if all you need is a gunboat and thud levi to claim the final point?

    The gameplay is screwed, the balance is screwed, the whole **** raid is screwed.

    Spent my money elsewhere - and you know what - if there ARE 100,000 players on-line - I'm over halfway up the global leader-board and I'm not even doing the raid........

    Battle Pirates is like on-line betting, if the fun stops they tell you spending more money will cheer you up a bit....
  • Stormlance
    Stormlance
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 923

    Using Gunboats or insta SWs to do 75s?  Now that's a clear sign something is wrong...

    How about designing raids and a game-play where players can actually use their best fleets in a battle where victory is dictated by skills and not moronic death-repair-rinse repeat? 

    “Life is not what we live; it is what we imagine we are living.”

  • Weresquirrel
    Weresquirrel
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 9,977

    "Run ships into the target so they all kill each other and when they're dead you can collect some points"

    It's monumentally frakking boring - it's like playing chess with an endless supply of pawns - you might eventually win but it's not much of a thrill doing so.

    Fair point.  Bear in mind that there are several completely different ways to approach this raid.  Batman's tactics might be boring for one player, yet perfect for someone who has subs and SWs but not much else.

    It honestly takes about 2 minutes of Corvette prepping to cover the entire A tier.  If you prefer more action with less grind, that's the place to be.

  • Major Kessler
    Major Kessler
    Master Tactician
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 2,124

    But honestly, it would just be a whole lot of my SWs dying, maybe a little bit of my zombie subs dying, then several minutes of my subs sitting in a corner doing nothing before you get to see me actually fighting something.


    Like I said - monumentally frakking boring.


    Battle Pirates is like on-line betting, if the fun stops they tell you spending more money will cheer you up a bit....
  • Major Kessler
    Major Kessler
    Master Tactician
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 2,124
    edited 13 Jun 2014, 5:42PM

    "Run ships into the target so they all kill each other and when they're dead you can collect some points"

    It's monumentally frakking boring - it's like playing chess with an endless supply of pawns - you might eventually win but it's not much of a thrill doing so.

    Fair point.  Bear in mind that there are several completely different ways to approach this raid.  Batman's tactics might be boring for one player, yet perfect for someone who has subs and SWs but not much else.

    It honestly takes about 2 minutes of Corvette prepping to cover the entire A tier.  If you prefer more action with less grind, that's the place to be.

    Which is why the whole balance is out of whack.

    Those tactics are perfect for EVERY player because we can ALL get Corvettes, etc.

    Why bother getting the better weapons and hulls? I want a raid that rewards me for going to the trouble of doing so and rewards my tactical abilities.

    Not one that can be done by dropping and endless supply of corvettes into a circular firing squad until one crippled ship is left.

    Granted doing that means free points and no repairs - but if the tactic doesn't need the prize hulls & weapons why bother getting them?

    My next builds are going to be R5 Battlebarge As because it's fun and they build quickly.....


    Battle Pirates is like on-line betting, if the fun stops they tell you spending more money will cheer you up a bit....
  • Weresquirrel
    Weresquirrel
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 9,977

    If you don't like the format, please post to the main discussion thread.  This thread is a request for tactics from a player who does want to play the event.  Easier for that person and others who share similar interests to glean information when the thread stays on topic.

  • starbl4107
    starbl4107
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 631

    If you don't like the format, please post to the main discussion thread.  This thread is a request for tactics from a player who does want to play the event.  Easier for that person and others who share similar interests to glean information when the thread stays on topic.

    actually you look at the title and even his opening post , it isn't asking for tactics but more so  for answers to the concerns brought up about the raid

  • Weresquirrel
    Weresquirrel
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 9,977

    If you don't like the format, please post to the main discussion thread.  This thread is a request for tactics from a player who does want to play the event.  Easier for that person and others who share similar interests to glean information when the thread stays on topic.

    actually you look at the title and even his opening post , it isn't asking for tactics but more so  for answers to the concerns brought up about the raid


    Without sifting through the hundreds of pages of general raid complaints, has there been any helpful information, advice, feedbacketc. from any of the mods concerning everyone's concerns?

    Looks like she or he is more interested in helpful information and advice than in a fresh batch of general complaints.

  • starbl4107
    starbl4107
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 631

    information, advice (those support your post), feedback concerning everyones's concerns( that covers my post and countless others)

  • janice_starling
    janice_starling
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2013 Posts: 496

    If you don't like the format, please post to the main discussion thread.  This thread is a request for tactics from a player who does want to play the event.  Easier for that person and others who share similar interests to glean information when the thread stays on topic.

    Actually I found it better to not participate at all. Most of my views go back to November. Posting them again might add to the drama but won't be actioned by Kixeye's BP product manager so pointless trying. This is a good thread though with good advice. Well done mods.

  • Serpents_Soul
    Serpents_Soul
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 1,749
    chuckee49 said:

    Actually I'm doing this raid for a lot less damage than May.

    Would you say that your an average player?

    Is that a useful direction to take this thread?  Please reread the tips for level 50s-60s players.

    Guess that question was answered. I'm guess, Weresquirrel is an elite player.

  • Weresquirrel
    Weresquirrel
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 9,977
    edited 13 Jun 2014, 7:04PM

    Moderators don't quite line up with the usual assumptions about elite/midgame/low level players.  Most of the player community is primarily interested in getting and using the best fleets and tactics they can.  Mods put a lot of attention into how game dynamics affect different parts of the player community. 

    For instance when the topic comes up about whether a base hitting raid would be a good thing (which isn't a spoiler just a for-instance), we pool observations about what sort of base hitting fleets (if any) the level 50 and 60 players are running these days.  Which isn't normally the sort of detail that gets much attention among players in the mid-70s to mid-80s. 

  • earthpig
    earthpig
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 1,154

    Has anyone spotted a pattern as to when the 64's drones do and don't include torps?

    image
  • Serpents_Soul
    Serpents_Soul
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 1,749

    Moderators don't quite line up with the usual assumptions about elite/midgame/low level players.  Most of the player community is primarily interested in getting and using the best fleets and tactics they can.  Mods put a lot of attention into how game dynamics affect different parts of the player community. 

    For instance when the topic comes up about whether a base hitting raid would be a good thing (which isn't a spoiler just a for-instance), we pool observations about what sort of base hitting fleets (if any) the level 50 and 60 players are running these days.  Which isn't normally the sort of detail that gets much attention among players in the mid-70s to mid-80s. 

    Ever think about going into politics?

  • Weresquirrel
    Weresquirrel
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 9,977

    Squirrels are terrible at anything that involves conference rooms and debates.  This is what cousin Stu did last month....


  • ZigZagZig
    ZigZagZig
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 204

    What is most aggravating about this raid is the huge nerf to C set bonus that is, for some reason, being completely ignored...

  • starbl4107
    starbl4107
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 631
    Kitedyou said:

    What is most aggravating about this raid is the huge nerf to C set bonus that is, for some reason, being completely ignored...

    well kixeye needs to make their money


    secondly they gave what the players wanted, they took the bonus cap off, just to cut the points

  • A game
    A game
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 955

    There are players who say they lurk my posts for information during raids.  Have given away quite a few tips regarding this event.  Here's a recap of most of that with a few extra points.

    Starting at the middle of the combat zone is not such a bad thing if you bring in a Gunboat.  I line up Corvettes for most targets.  The 64 will fight off over 30% of its health if you steer down and then to the left.  What's left after that is nothing but Drac ships, so an ED module isn't needed to clean up.  Just go for the Typhoon ASAP.

    Even when the Gunboat/Corvette prep dies immediately, the Dracs and Reavers can fight for several seconds.  The 43 and 63 can lose 25% of their health from three Corvette preps.

    The A tier isn't much harder than the B tier.  If you can handle B you can probably handle A (which is unusual for a raid).  The 75 Elite is more of a novelty; best points to damage return (IMHO) is in the A tier.

    Insta-fleets and zombies can really wear things down if you use the right tactics.

    One winning strategy open to midsized players (50s-60s) gets overlooked a lot because players tend to reject it for somewhat arbitrary reasons.  There actually is a middle ground between doing everything yourself and mooching preps off of somebody way stronger.  If you and a friend own different prep fleets (insta and zombie), you can trade off and prep much more efficiently.

    The people who have figured out where and when and how to use submarines are having a pretty good time.  The subs just can't be used quite everywhere.  Problem is the rest of the community is trolling them pretty hard when they say anything about it.

    So is this what the game has come to...spamming corvettes and using zombie subs to do the raids?...where is the fun in that?..I remember the better raids where we actually got to blow up targets and use our boats that we spent so much time building without having to coin our **** off.

    image
  • Weresquirrel
    Weresquirrel
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 9,977
    edited 13 Jun 2014, 8:03PM
    agame2144 said:

    So is this what the game has come to...spamming corvettes and using zombie subs to do the raids?...where is the fun in that?..I remember the better raids where we actually got to blow up targets and use our boats that we spent so much time building without having to coin our **** off.

    Actually am doing most of the raid on the A tier with surface fleets.  One of the builds is already public.  If I specified the others the reaction would be just as bad in an entirely different direction zomg nobody has the coin to build that even if we own the hulls.

    Went down that path back when the Strongholds were the new Mission target: the forum was in an uproar claiming the targets were impossible so I posted three videos: one with insta-wolves on a lowbie target, one with Battleships on a 34, and one with an MCX/Triton combo on a 40.  Forum denizens whose hearts were set on complaining ignored the first two videos and claimed the format was impossible because they didn't own an MCX/Triton combo.

    Sometimes ya just can't win.


  • Benjar1981
    Benjar1981
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Aug 2013 Posts: 1,193
    I dont thing this raid is particularly awful.  However, there are a couple things that I think need some addressing.  
    1) Why do the reapers start submerged.  Thats not how they function in the game, at least not the player ones.  Will this be a retrofit in the lab when they get there?  
    2)  Why is it that in the last raid my vindicator fleet with strike 2 could outrun the chaos thrown up by grimshine with very minimal damage, yet since then I have refit to strike 3, so they are 4 or 5 combat speed faster and my fleet dies to it every single time.  Last time I could do the whole target with the single grimshine in it with almost no damage, now I cant even do that one ship.  Are they different chaos mortars?
    3)  Speaking of berserkers, whats with the overload doing the 300 percent the entire time.  That was explained two months ago to be a glitch.  Also, why is it that when I go back into the targets with berserkers they are overloading right at the start.  Especially when a big reaver with the jav is still alive and them immediately nails me with 3 or 4 jav hits.  

  • elitwo
    elitwo
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 764

    Planet Express

    Potential Threat

    i have been using cuda's - mostly to make everything die off - been working fine. 
    true the cudas cant really kill but they sure clear a path for long-range missle fleets.
    but - attack w/cudas (after you strip off the flagship) and dive to the lower left corner - 
    do this in a 45 and u end up with just 2 damaged zerkers - which are easily kited.

    however - i have to reluctently agree the 43 is over powered. i havent heard anyone in-game or
    on the boards that does not agree with this.
  • Odins_Slayer
    Odins_Slayer
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jun 2012 Posts: 758

    no one think this raid is fair or even balanced out a good way its fubar and complete sht !


  • firefly844
    firefly844
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 954

    This thread is a little helpful. My second set of B's i set up a simple insta repair gun boat fleet just for starting the battle. The subs work well in the 41 42 and 45. 44 is a bit of a grind for me seeing as I don't have a dedicated anti sub fleet (good golly the thought of having to take the time to build a arb or huri with anti-cav is enough to make me vomit when I am already so backed up for ships that need to be built but if this an indicator of what they plan to do in the future I guess I may have to blow another week or two on a only semi useful ship to stuff into my nearly full docks)

    The 43 is a major hurt full grind still. If you can get the sonar scouts down then a set of bat spec does well against the rest if you are patient and use the retreat button liberally.  Still it cost me a lot to get the sonar scouts down in the first place. As in fleets of damage


    All in all I am done spending coin on this raid I refuse to put in even my normal allotment of 100 coins because it has so far taken me 50 coins to get just 2 B sets done and to top that off the point pay out is horrible. I only have 1.8 mil in points for having completed both sets. What happened to the whole payout roughly equal to the first bonus? At this rate I would have to do 4 more B sets just to get the new weapon.

    I will keep plinking at and who know maybe I will still make enough to get the new weapon. Though that would be sad considering I have in the past been getting more like 15 - 17 mil in points so it will be a major step backwards. But there is no way I am just going to through money down a massive sink hole. I won't do it next month either at all if the damage level and point payouts are as bad

  • GrandPaSunshine
    GrandPaSunshine
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 1,588

    Thanks to the Mods for their response and time.  For me this raid was not as much fun as the last one. so i got the new gun and quit. cool idea about sending a bunch of instant repair gunboats until all that is left is stuff you can kill.  But personally i want a game that uses a strategy more directed towards ship builds and movement not one that uses a bunch of instant hulls to get an advantage.  (BTW feel the same way about having 10 gunboats "guarding" a base.)

     My only advise is in a B 44 a well built Interdictor  fleet can hunt down and destroy all the reaper's with about a 50% damage/repair time.

    My build:  all have 7 D63-B  torps........all have 2 D4-V armor............All have unstable core 3 and speed upgrade ............3 have Sonar Pod-3 and 2 have GS-3

    When in doubt ATTACK
  • firefly844
    firefly844
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 954

    That is a good idea I have inters but have not built any yet or retro'd them but I think I could probably build a fleet like that in what about 6 or 7 weeks I guess? I might do it it just means pushing back my Vinds and Atlas's and Bezerkers fleet builds to do so. Crap I hate having to go backwards to go forwards

  • Corp. Punishment
    Corp. Punishment
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 951

    I appreciate the mods responding.  The concern is the huge increase in difficulty from C to B tiers.  That's a joke.  Subs are the preferred hull, I get it.  But surface ships shouldn't die in mere seconds in a B tier.  How in the hell is a proto in tier B?  It's an Uber hull, not necessarily a mid level player opponent.  

    I get that there are some strategies and usually love that part, but this is crazy.  I don't usually "whine" about raids, but I'm still pissed after playing last night.  Never been so frustrated with this game, not even when there have been crashes that caused me to lose fleets.  Enough of me ranting.

  • Blazing_Darkness
    Blazing_Darkness
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 8,162

    My current strategy is to farm 63s.

    ~700k points for ~2hrs repairs.

    First attack is with Atlas Carriers with Hornet UAVs. Repair will be lower than mine if you have a few phalanx in the fleet.
    1. Turn away from the proto-nemesis and take out the 4 drac ships you are heading towards taking care not to let the SC-X get into range.
    2. The Nemesis should be following you very closely, stop one of your ships until the other 4 are a ship length ahead. This is to prevent the splash damage of the nemesis missile damaging all 5 ships.
    3. Let the nemesis catch up to you can kite it, make sure that the ship that is on its own is always the closest to the nemesis for the reason mentioned about.
    4. Take out the two remaining MC-X and any other ships nearby.
    5. Head towards the bottom right corner and retreat as soon as the button appears.

    At the end of the first attack all the draconian ships will be destroyed. You will have ~1hr repair on a single Atlas carrier, the other 4 should have no damage if you've piloted well against the SC-X and nemesis.

    After that you can use subs. At the start of the second attack all that is left is the berserkers (usually 6, 3 with damage) and the two reaver ships with meteor mortars. I personally don't use subs (my sub fleet isn't up to scratch) but have spammed zombie subs on a few runs to do the job, since it's only reavers left you can spam the target without losing any points as there are no dracs left to kill the reavers.

    More often than not I'll chose not to use subs because I don't want to spend the time using subs and just want to finish the target quickly. So I send in an impulse launcher vs any remaining berserkers and the meteor mortar ships for ~1hr 30mins repairs.


    I'm certain that people with better fleets than me, for example phalanx on the fleet used for the first attack that takes out the nemesis and a proper sub fleet for the second, can do the target for less repairs.

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  • RmYWaRRioR
    RmYWaRRioR
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 50

    Batman and Squirrel, What gives with the huge disproportion of A and B to very few C targets? They are not re spawning fast either. The "TEAM" needs to fix the re spawn rates and nerf some of the damage caused by A and B Targets. Of course the MODERATORS are going to deflect any comments about damage and difficulty to completability. They are also going to tell us how easy they are having it in the raid but, then of course they have access to watch the beta testing and know exactly what works. I am not wasting any coin on accelerated builds or repairs this raid. I am not a mega coiner so, I am not the preferred customer here.

  • aidan0203
    aidan0203
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 442

    Guess what. Cudas don't work so well. I tried a 41 with no flagship and all were sunk on opening volley. 

    Guess what. I did a 41 with Cudas and I killed the entire warzone. You just need to drive, that's all.
    Battle Pirates :  Roo
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