can we have specific guidelines on what you guys consider spam carter? because i often tag a fleet with a harry to see whats in it and then use the correct fleet to hit it or one of my friends hit it....i do not believe that is spamming but clearer guidelines for those who are not clear on what spam is would be appreciated.
Im glad they are doing something.
don't get me wrong i know spamming can get out of control but now kids are going to cry every time a harry hits them whether its justified or not......if they are going to ban people i think they should make clear guidelines so every body that gets hit isn't crying to them about a harry hitting them
what u did is just scouting.
spamming is just sending lots of harriers or anything eles having a very small repair time into a base and slowing down the upgrades and all intentionally.
Goten69 this week we have been dealing with excessive spam in 2600. The recent repair changes have just made this worse not better. Constant base holding and harriers hitting bases just to stop repairs and upgrades.These aren't the actions of low levels either. We are taking about lvl35+. I'm sure each case will be looked at individually but I'm glad that Kix are finally making a stand.
whers the fun in war if everyone spams lol
i understand it.....but the kid i scouted was crying saying i spammed him and that he was reporting me lol.so i would like a reference form carter i can direct him too so he understands....some people are a bit slow....
if the kids got no proof u are safe
Goten if your one on one with someone its not spamming. If you sent out 6 flts to stop his progress and all your mates send out there's too. That's spamming. The grey shades are for Kixeye to judge on. All will be based on the evidence they have I'm sure.
maybe kixeye should give specific guidelines to all before banning players...the CMs on this forum have stated that as long as you make a reasonable attempt to attack a base it is not considered spamming...whatever ship you use has to try to attack and hit something, not just sit there...now its..you cant use lower tier ship/ships to hit bases or ur gonna get bannned..well you know what? thas like saying hey, you can build the ship but if u use it u can get banned if some whining crybaby complains...and that is all it is when folks complain about spam...crybabying...even if you hit a base all the way across ur sector with a 4 minute round trip its still considered harassment?....sorry not buying it...kixeye has not given specific rules on this thus just banning players out of hand is denial of service for those who have paid for coins...and not only that its just a crock of crap....looking for another game to spend money on now...the level of crying and whining on this wargame has reached epic proportions...if it was a real war half these forum crybabys would drown before they got off the ship to fight...give us ships, let us fight with them our way...if it interferes with research etc, code the game to where base hits do not stop research or prevent fleets from launching...simple solution huh? welp obviously not bc kix thinks its easier to just ban players rather than fix their game mechanics...they will see just how much that decision will cost them in the end when all their pals in dog are all alone with noone to fight but lowbies
Every time you open your mouth, some idiot starts talking.
I'm one of those bad things that happen to good people.
Who invented the brush they put next to the toilet? That thing hurts!
like it or not cannon fodder is a part of all wars.....harriers are cannon fodder...if you dont want us playing with them remove them from the game, but banning ppl by calling it harassment or even an exploit is totally messed up...basically ur saying hey instead of just fixing it to where research times arent affected by base hits or ship construction or repairs to ships...instead of fixing the problem, we are just going to save money by calling it an exploit and banning people for it.....this beyond the most stupid thing ive ever encountered in a game...and ppl getting banned AFTER repair times on these ships went up 5000% is dumb too.. and some get banned and some dont there is heavy favoritism going on about which players are getting banned...banning a player without setting out SPECIFIC guidelines especially when the player is a paying customer is akin to locking up someone who got a good deal on socks at walmart and calling him a theif...just...pathetic
Every time you open your mouth, some idiot starts talking.
I'm one of those bad things that happen to good people.
Who invented the brush they put next to the toilet? That thing hurts!
I think that's a different Goten as he's 2100, but yea DoG have been crying at every scout of a base since they landed in 2600. Their attitude of having Kixeye in their back pocket and the results of people actually getting bans and harriers deleted kinda makes me wonder why I bother playing here. I still like the game but the way alliances and bullies are taking over there is little incentive for me to play long term.
Says the lvl 28 that none of our clan would touch even if they could. We don't stop anyone playing the game. The most you lose from us is a little res. We teach peeps how to play the game not sit in there bases whinging about "bullies" that hit them. Kixeye arn't in our back pockets but they want the game to be played how it was ment to be played.
Baaalazamon I agree. Repairs and upgrades should not stop until the unit is 100% destroyed and then shouldn't work again until 100% repaired.
but does it really take u 50 fleets of harriers and 1 hrs to scout a base???? maybe u should start on easier bases and work your way up that way u might actually get somewhere. DoG dont care about scouting a base go for it. but dont send 7 fleets over and just keep hitting so that a player cant send a fleet out cant repair and cant enjoy the game. some people have lifes and with the limited time they have they actually like to play the game (inbetween the big repair times) and have some fun rather then be trapped inside there base by skilless and gutless comm warriors, who are constantly whining about this now... Here is a tip, build a real fleet learn how to fly and how to hit a base(we have put enough videos out there for u to learn) and u never know u might actually grow your alliance to be one that isnt just laughed at all over vega
Looking at the OP's description of what he has been using harriers for, I would refer to that as scouting, not spamming, which is fine in my book. Using small decoy fleets in order to assist another fleet to get to safety is also fine in my book, as long as it doesn't venture into endless spam for the purpose of delaying the enemy to too great an extent.
Imo, spamming in VC entails the repeated use of the same ships on a target. As such, spamming can be done with high level or low level fleets, ie a player using harriers to repeatedly hit an enemy fleet, or a player repeatedly hitting a base with revs just charging for example. What is important to note here, is that the action of repeatedly doing the same thing could be considered spam.
As such, I do not see all actions which could be regarded as "spam", to necessarily be an exploit and highly doubt Kixeye would as well.
Examples of spam I'm guessing Kixeye does not have a problem with:
In both these scenarios, the player "spamming" has the intent to kill/cause massive destruction, as opposed to simply wasting time or delay progress for an extended period of time and while I'm not a fan of players spamming bases with high level fleets, I do not see either of these two actions worthy of being banned.
I think the real problem comes in when people use tactics such as:
Not all these tactics here are spam, but they have something else in common: Intent to delay progress, whether it be progress of timers, or progress of a fleet towards it's destination.
That's where things get murky, as in my experience, you will find players not only crossing the line from what is considered fine, they are so far over the line it looks like a dot, all the while attempting to justify their actions with: "It's part of the game - if I can do it, there's not a problem", "I wasn't using the harriers to spam the revs, my intent was to kill - it just took a few hours longer than I had anticipated", "I really wanted to hit and kill the base, but my harriers just happened to get killed after I hit the labs", etc etc.
I do think it would be great for Kixeye to lay out what is considered and exploit and what is not, but I do not think that is enough - they need to implement features to ensure game mechanics are not as easily exploited. Some of these issues have been brought up a good 8+ months ago.
Prevent extensive fleet delaying tactics (suggestions I have heard from others and one I suggested myself):
Help prevent timers being delayed in bases:
Just change the feature where the lab timer stops working because it incurred a little damage, changing it to stop functioning after it's been destroyed.
The ideas mentioned all have their downsides and can all probably still be exploited, but hopefully there is something out there that would be the lesser of two evils, helping the game being more enjoyable.
tl;dr: Spam isn't the problem, tactics employed for the purpose of delaying to too great an extent is. It would be nice for Kixeye to point to the rat poison and say: "No Timmy, don't do that - eating the poison will get you banned from life", it would be better if they just put the poison somewhere so Timmy can't get to it.
its a 'WAR' game, and i belive holding a base up with harriers is just one of many tacticts that incorparate small fleets, hell it can be done with talons, hawks furys dreds, sit in a base and do nothing. why limit to harriers?
If your in a group / clan, and attaking another clan in another planet, holding up other bases for 20min or so while your clan does its job is a brilliant tactic to win a 'WAR'.
Its the same story with fvf. hold up other fleets so the 'WAR' Can be won.
Removing harriers will NOT solve the problem because it will be done with Talons with minimal armourments, or even the poo tiny corvets. will they be removed too and the player be banned?
Look at real life 'WAR', tactics of this nature have been used in just abouts every 'WAR' over the past 150 years.
You make a 'WAR' game, but restrict what we can do? that is not 'WAR', that is following stupid guidelines and rules, and we all know, there are NO rules in 'WAR'.
NOW A NOTE TO THE PLAYERS THAT DECIDED TO COMPLAIN ABOUT SPAM FLEETS.
DON'T START SOMETHING YOU CANT FINISH.
STOP MAKING TROUBLE SO YOU DO GET SPAMED.
DON'T JOIN A CLAN / GROUP OR WHATEVER THAT IS HATED BY THE MAJORITY AND/OR SEEKS OUT 'WAR' CONSTANTLY.
IF YOU DONT LIKE BEING SPAMED, THERE IS A BUTTON CALLED RELOCATE THAT IS FREE ONCE A WEEK.
Next idea guys. Let's kix make repair time do 1/4 or 1/5 from current and nobody will spam ;-)
here's a question for Kix, a few of the actual challanges is to attak other peoples bases.
What if i chose not to do them untill i was say a level 30+ and desided to hit it with nothing but harriers. death by a thousand needels so to speak.
the challange did't say how it should be accomplished. but the view from the opposing player is, i have stoped them from doing anything for 3 hours, they cant launch a fleet, cant defend, nothing, and then they have to wait for repair times befor they can resume in base opporations. they would see it as spam!
answer that one!
You know what this comes down to? The Devs and Betas getting their way and their style of play is foisted on everyone. See, its always been THEIR game and we are just allowed to play it. Lets talk about the definition of a "Harrier." A Harrier is a person or thing that harries. The root word is harry:
verb (used with object), har·ried, har·ry·ing.
1.to harass, annoy, or prove a nuisance to by or as if by repeated attacks; worry: He was harried by constant doubts.
2.to ravage, as in war; devastate: The troops harried the countryside.
verb (used without object), har·ried, har·ry·ing.
3.to make harassing incursions.
before 900; Middle English herien, Old English her ( g ) ian (derivative of here army); cognate with German verheeren, Old Norse herja to harry, lay waste
1. molest, plague, trouble. 2. plunder, strip, rob, pillage.
In KixEye's infinite wisdom, they CREATED this ship to do just what everyone is complaining about. Now... Ive seen Captain Obvious repeatedly SPAM Single Harriers on AUTO to guard his base to keep us from hitting him with tier 3 Basers. He should be banned for holding us up from attacking his base. Its a Tactic and he uses it to great benefit. Dr. Wolfbrigade will send a single harrier to keep you from hitting his baser. He has on SEVERAL occasions done this to me while I was trying to help defend a clan mate's base from attack. Again, He held me up with a tier 1 fleet to keep me from hitting his Tridents with my Hawks. He should be banned under these new rules if using Low level fleets to hold up attacks from high level fleets.
Who decides what Harassment is. A player that doesn't like someones game play or is to lazy to DEFEAT another player's tactics will cry Harassment. So now, they can get KixEye involved and instead of fighting their way to a base hit, they will have KixEye interfere in the game to get that Harrier banned.
Sooooo... Whats it gonna be KixEye? You gonna continue to interfere in the Game or let us spend coins and play?
First I want to focus on the 'WAR' game part: Starcraft, Age of Empires, Homeworld, Command and Conquer, these are all rts 'WAR' games.
If Player A sends a strong army to his opponent's base, only to find a small group of enemies, that cannot possibly hope to even dent this army, on the way, what do you think generally happens? I'll tell you: Either the small group gets demolished within a few seconds, or the army simply continues on their path. You send a unit or two to Player A's base and sit there, do you think player A can no longer send out units? If you do, think again, because he can. Player A finally reaches his opponent's base, only to find a few of Player B's ally's units chilling with a cup 'o joe in there. So what happens? Is player A prohibited from going in and attempting to destroy everything? Nope, he can go in and kill all. Doesn't matter if there are already other units in there.While I do not generally worry too much how realistic a game is, I cannot imagine an armada of tanks being stopped by an enemy soldier with a peashooter in real life either during a war.
You talk about restrictions, but the fact that what is effectively an army can be stopped in its tracks by what is effectively cannon fodder, is restrictive in itself, so your argument holds little water regarding why spamming is a-ok, simply because this is a 'WAR' game.
Despite that, or how game mechanics are in other rts games, I do not mind that a ship can be held in place by a much smaller ship. I do not mind that an enemy can prevent me from launching a ship by holding my base for the purpose of giving his ally time to hit another player without having to worry about me intercepting. I do not mind players using small fleets as decoys to help their big fleets get safe: Regardless of how unrealistic it may be, regardless of the fact that these mechanics are in fact more restrictive, this is a war GAME (emphasis on game, not war, because this is a game first and foremost). I see and appreciate the tactical implications the current GAME mechanics have. My problem comes in when players start abusing it, exploiting it, which can be done readily and indefinitely.
To you I pose this question: Where is the line? At which point would you look at the current system and say: "Ok, maybe that shouldn't be possible to do in the game." I'll give you an example. Right now it is possible for a group of players to target one player, hit his base around the clock, for a month, effectively preventing this player from playing the game for that month. No research, no building, no progression. He would not even be able to relocate for that month, as his base would constantly be engaged. Would you say that is fair, would you say that is a mechanic that should be in a game such as this?
the problem isnt spamming, its kixeye making it an issue in a 'WAR' game because some players feel its unfair and complain. when in reality. everyone has the ability to spam, and everyone has the ability to relocate if they dont like being spammed. it is that simple.
sticking to bases being spammed, what about bases that get farmed on a daily bases. i have a few i hit just for the res and hit labs and bays to stop retaliation. as soon as the bubble goes down, i hit it again in the exact same fashion. now that player has to wait for repairs, in base op's are delayed, resorses are depleted and so on. this could be viewd as spam from the opponants point of view as im making it very difficult for tha player to progress... yet just abouts all of them just simply relocated and got on with it. its happned to me on a number of occations as i was leveling up, i relocated and the problem was resolved. yet i have a funny feeling if this nanny culture of yours continues we will be restricted from hitting any bases more than once.
FYI if you insist on changing the rules/guidlines/whatever, it may be wise to let 'AALLLL' the players know via mass email. not just the ones that read comms or come to the forums.
Wow, from your statements I assume you use the tactic and your proud of it. At lvl 37 if that's all you can do then I pity you. Some of us actually want to play and use a little bit of skill in fvf and in bases.
It is a game exploit, therefore it is a form of cheating and will get you banned.
If its a game exploit... then take it out of the game. There's all kinds of game exploits in this game... BTW, Screen Shots can be faked...lol
They will not remove a ship to get rid of a game exploit, that would cause a balance problem. Screen shots can be faked, but support can access your account to see them for their selves. If you fake it, your account may get banned, so I would be careful with that situation... lol
2 you both and Kixeye. yes i have used this tactic alot when going up against the likes of D.O.G, ICU, SCUM BFM amongst others with great benifit in retalliation to their attaks, who also made good use of this tactic.
We all have the same abbilities and if we dont like it, we can relocate.
I dont like car crash TV so you know what i do. i dont complain like my 5 year old child and simply change the channel or turn it off
Right now it is possible for a group of players to target one player, hit his base around the clock, for a month, effectively preventing this player from playing the game for that month.
one word 'RELOCATE' you should look up its meaning,,, that is one of the resons kix implemented it a few month back and you can relocate when damaged and bubbled..
So the CRY BABIES will now reign supreme in Vega Conflict. What happened to this Game? It use to be a bunch of people who enjoyed fighting and large scale war. Now, Its gonna be about Cry Babies complaining that they aren't good enough to fight little fleets or that its unfair that when their base go hit the attacker didn't attack their CMs and only hit their labs and bridge... SUCKS TO BE YOU! I think it's a "Game Exploit" that Mods and Devs are choosing the Betas side in every fight they have. But hey, if I was a Beta and had those contacts, Id do it too
In the example I gave, it would not be possible for that player to relocate - when you constantly get attacked, you cannot relocate. So please, answer my question.