New Plate Armours/Damage Reduction FAQ

phroxenphyre
phroxenphyre
Unicorn Overlord
Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 5,284
edited 6 Jan 2014, 6:26PM

Forsaken Fury 2 introduced a new armour bonus known as Damage Reduction. There has been much confusion regarding how this new bonus works, particularly how it differs from Damage Resistance, whether it is more useful than the existing armours that offer Damage Resistance bonuses and some math examples. This guide will answer the most common question players have about this new ability.

What is Damage Reduction?
Damage Reduction is a flat reduction of incoming damage. For example, a Damage Reduction of 10 will reduce 131 incoming damage to 121 and 34 incoming damage to 24. As long as it doesn’t reduce the incoming damage below the Weapon Minimum, the reduction is always constant, regardless of how much or how little there is. More on the Weapon Minimum later.

Is the damage reduced based on the total weapon damage or the damage per salvo?
Damage reduction works on every salvo that hits you. For example, Assault Missiles fire two salvos, each dealing 75 base damage (not including bonus damage). If you have 10 Damage Reduction, you will reduce each salvo to 65, resulting in a total of 20 damage being negated.

How is Damage Reduction different from Damage Resistance?
Damage Resistance reduces incoming damage by a certain %. For example, if you have 50% resistance, you will reduce 131 incoming damage to 65.5 and 34 incoming damage to 17. The total amount of damage resisted will depend on the amount that’s coming in.

Does the Juggernaut X’s ability affect Damage Reduction?
As long as the Damage Reduction is granted by an armour, the Juggernaut X’s ability will indeed boost it.

Is Damage Reduction affected by the Armour Bypass Tactical Module?
Yes. The amount of Damage Reduction a ship has will be lowered by the appropriate percent for the damage type. For example, if you have 50 Penetrating Damage Reduction on a ship that is under the effects of Armour Bypass 3 (-50% penetrating resistance), your ship will be reduced to 25 Damage Reduction as long as it remains within the module’s Field of Effect.

We know that Resistance and other bonuses stacks in funny ways. How does Reduction stack?
You will be pleased to know that Reduction stacks using regular, old-fashioned addition. If you have two Plate Armours that each have 10 Reduction, your ship will have 20 Reduction. It’s that simple.

Is there a maximum amount of Damage Reduction I can have?
Technically, no but there does come a point where additional Damage Reduction will have no effect, due to Minimum Weapon Damage (explained later).

Which gets applied first: Resistance or Reduction?
Resistances are calculated first, then Reduction. So if you have 50% Resistance and 20 Reduction, you will reduce 250 incoming damage to 105 ((250 * 50%) – 20).

So is it possible to reduce incoming damage to 0?
While mathematically, it looks like it should be possible, each weapon in the game has a minimum amount of damage that it can deal on a successful hit. If Damage Reduction would reduce a weapon to below this minimum, it would deal the minimum amount instead. This was done deliberately to prevent ships from becoming completely invulnerable.

What are the minimum amounts of damage for each weapon?
Unfortunately, these numbers haven’t been released and likely won’t be. All we know is that, generally speaking, the more powerful the weapon, the higher the minimum damage. If any more information on this gets released, I’ll update the guide to include it.

So which is better, Resistance or Reduction?
The answer to this question depends on what kind of weapon you’re dealing with. In most cases, a single Resistance Armour will negate more damage than a single Plate armour but once you start stacking them, the Reduction starts to become more attractive. An “easy” way to tell which is better is to look at the types of weapons you expect to be facing and calculating how much damage per salvo they deal. If we’re working with Shockwave Qs, that damage is 400 (800 / 2 salvos). Then add up the total amount of Reduction you could potentially get on your ship if you were the use Plate Armours and divide that by the damage per salvo to get the “Magic Number”. So if we are able to stack three Explosive Plate 3s, we’d get 66 Reduction: 66 / 400 = 16.5%. This means that if we can get our resistances higher than 16.5%, we’d negate more damage with that than we would with the Plate Armours and thus Resistances would be a better way to go.

However, it is often best to mix the two. Using specials, you can get a ship’s resistance up to at least 66%, if not more. Continuing with the previous scenario, if you have Ablative Armor 3 on an MC-X, it will have an explosive resistance of 72.80%. If you were to add four D3-X armours, you can get it up to 82.15%, a difference of 10.65%. Your other option is to add four Explosive Plate 3s for a total reduction of 88. Using those numbers, here’s the approximate damage each combination would take from a single Shockwave Q shell:
MC-X w/ AA3 only (72.80% Rst, 0 Red): 400 * 27.2% = 108.8.
MC-X w/ AA3 & 4x D3-X (82.15% Rst, 0 Red): 400 * 17.85% = 71.4
MC-X w/ AA3 & 4x EP3 (72.80% Rst, 88 Red): (400 * 27.2%) – 88 = 20.8

As you can see, the combination of decent resistances and good reduction is better than having high resistance.

How do I know if I’ve reached the maximum effective reduction?
While there is no way to know for absolutely sure, you can get a good approximation. In all cases, you’ll need to know how much damage per salvo your ship will be expecting to take. If the result of the formula (BaseDamage * (100% - ShipResistance)) – DamageReduction is less than or equal to zero, you probably have more reduction than you need and can either swap out plates for a different kind or fill the remaining armour slots with a different type of armour.

 

Retired
  • Weresquirrel
    Weresquirrel
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 9,977

    Be glad they aren't emulating fluid dynamics in this game.  ;)

  • patrick.mooney.3154
    patrick.mooney.3154
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2013 Posts: 137

    So this is a joke - 

  • EvilGeniusReborn
    EvilGeniusReborn
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 3,269

    Good FAQ but I'm still confused.

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    Kixeye. Killing the game, one upgrade at a time.

  • Solonium
    Solonium
    Greenhorn
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 10

    Good FAQ explaining the maths behind it.If only we know the minimum damage as well.

  • phroxenphyre
    phroxenphyre
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 5,284

    Good FAQ but I'm still confused.

    Which part confuses you?

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  • Bones0027
    Bones0027
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 10

    Thanks Batman.  This goes a LONG way to helping me understand the new armor.  Much appreciated.

  • P_K 2
    P_K 2
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 248

    Very glad to have the information regarding minimum damage - it explains something I had observed, and wondering if it was a bug.


    I ran some tests on the PP2 armor - built 2 maulers with a single thud, and nothing other than the following:  ship # 1 with RA3; ship #2 with RA3 and 4 x PP2.


    Tested against other boats, it performed surprisingly well (and confirmed the statement that reduction applied after resistance).

    But then I tested against the missiles in two mission outposts - a lvl 34 and a 40.  (Killed the guard fleet, drove close enough to get hit by just one gun, counted shots and checked damage).

    On both of these tests, there was no appreciable difference between the two ships in damage taken - so in this case, the minimum damage for the weapon is (presumably) so high that anything beyond RA3 does nothing more.  While the concept makes sense, I must say I'm pretty surprised at the numbers.  Firstly, because these are only mid-to-low level outposts, and secondly that RA3 alone seems to get to the maximum defense.

  • Icarus117
    Icarus117
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 37

    Thank you for the information, it was most informative :)

  • Izikiel
    Izikiel
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 227
    edited 25 Nov 2013, 8:07AM

    Remember, this is a precursor to the next enemy: "these marauders sport High-Salvo Rapid Fire weaponry." So, I'm nearly 100% that reduction occurs to each shot, while resistance is just a total. The following are ridiculously low resistance examples.

    For instance, 20 reduction vs. 20 resistance with 500 damage dealt. With one shot, 100 damage is blocked from resistance. Reduction only blocks 20. 

    However, split 500 damage into say, 10 shots (anything more than 5 would do in this case). Resistance is still 100 total. Reduction, however, is now 200. 

    So, I would think that we should expect this to not become incredibly useful until this new enemy is released. (And their equipment!)

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  • Jr Croy
    Jr Croy
    Potential Threat
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 26

    i may be wrong but from my understanding it you have 89% defiance of said type of damage you have reached cap. that would mean minimum damage would be 11% of said wep. so if something does 100 damage per hit the minimum would be 11. or at lest until you reach your max defiance amount cap then u take full damge from every hit. but how many battles last that long?  

  • WILL_H
    WILL_H
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 403

    Wow, I must say...this is probably the most thought out, well explained thread I've ever seen here. VERY good job on breaking it all down, and thanks for doing so! It really helps us understand the plates better. 

  • Artisan
    Artisan
    Greenhorn
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 14

    Izikiel hits it on the head. The original explanation was good, but in laymans terms, you win Iz.

  • SunGod1
    SunGod1
    Master Tactician
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 2,103

    Be glad they aren't emulating fluid dynamics in this game.  ;)


    IT seems those are 2 qualities you have :) . .. you are fluid and dynamic. I could not resist !
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  • TheComms
    TheComms
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 302

    The only thing I want to know is the "MINIMUM DAMAGES" of weapons

    Hulls: I have so many hulls.
  • Sammy_H14
    Sammy_H14
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 1,214

    I think I need to go back to school...LOL..However from what I am reading and can figure out on my own; when building/refitting your fleets and utilizing these new plates.  It is going to come down to a good balance of your resistance and your damage reduction.  I could be completely off base on this; hence probably why I need to go to college.

  • The R
    The R
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2011 Posts: 499
    edited 26 Nov 2013, 3:46AM

    Good work. But I still got a headache now, and need to lie down. I think with this level of complicated maths, Battle Pirates will soon replace three-dimensional chess as the favourite game of Sheldon Cooper.

  • thomasp69
    thomasp69
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 23

    So, these armors are forsaken, so can't use on Jugg X for double the benefits?

  • firefly844
    firefly844
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 954

    OK so one other question on these new armors. If your enemy is using a missile with bonus explosive damage and you have both penetrative reduction armor and explosive reduction armor will the explosive reduction armor reduce the secondary damage effect of the missile if it is not at minimum damage effect yet?

  • KODIAK BEAR
    KODIAK BEAR
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 1,476

    What would help others to more easily understand is a table showing various combinations and the effective total damage reduction. If that could be done I think players would appreciate it.

    Remember Kixeye, PLAYERS FIRST!
  • lifejr
    lifejr
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 65

    so , would explosive plates help better than % when dealing with Hellstrikes? 

  • FREE-SCOTS-NAVY
    FREE-SCOTS-NAVY
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 19

    WHY NOT MAKE IT ALL THE SAME!  HAVING DIFFERENT ARMOUR SYSTEMS is confusing. LEAGUE TABLE SHOWING THE ARMOURS  SO YOU COULD USE AS A CROSS REFERENCE WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL...scm

  • Cheesy_Shark_Tongue
    Cheesy_Shark_Tongue
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 1,914

    Batman, I believe Jugg X does not double any armor stats, it increases them by 50% ( not 100%)

    Quit Spring 2015 or so, returned Jan 2019.  
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  • Ken Lukavsky
    Ken Lukavsky
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 46

    What is the major differences between this post and the one Blazing Darkness posted 8Feb?

  • Blazing_Darkness
    Blazing_Darkness
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 8,162

    What is the major differences between this post and the one Blazing Darkness posted 8Feb?

    The spread sheet that I created and linked to, saves people from having to do the maths.

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  • lostboys243
    lostboys243
    Greenhorn
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 1

    Think of it this way high salvo weapons the Reduction armor will have more benefit on than low salvo type correct?



  • aaron.keyes.9
    aaron.keyes.9
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 464

    Does the Juggernaut X’s ability affect Damage Reduction?
    As long as the Damage Reduction is granted by an armour, the Juggernaut X’s ability will indeed boost it.

    ^^^ how is this possible when the jug X clearly states that it augments the abilities of DRACONIAN armors, the plate armors are all FORSAKEN.

    if this is actually true, then i will definitely be trying to get the jugg x when it is released next.

  • jd12
    jd12
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 230

    So if there is a minimum dmg there must be a minimum percent that evade applies to. KIXEYE we need to know this info. So were not wasting our builds. im starting to think evade max reduction is probly like 65 percent if were lucky.

  • Blazing_Darkness
    Blazing_Darkness
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 8,162
    jd12 said:

    So if there is a minimum dmg there must be a minimum percent that evade applies to. KIXEYE we need to know this info. So were not wasting our builds. im starting to think evade max reduction is probly like 65 percent if were lucky.

    There is no maximum evade.

    The minimum damage is only there to prevent no damage being dealt otherwise the right combination of plate armor could cause an indestructible ship against certain damage types.

    The way evade stacks with diminishing returns prevents evade reaching 100%, so there is no need nor is there any maximum evade.

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  • jd12
    jd12
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 230
    edited 28 Mar 2014, 12:59AM

    but can u be sure. bc armour with percentage diminishes aswell.  could there be a point say 60 percent evade where anymore past 60 percent doesnt apply even though it says it can go past that point. if there is a minimum for dmg from a weopon even after all defenses and reductions have been applied and still always does dmg. Could it be possible that the maximum accuracy reduced by evade is only say 60 percent so ur wasting slots with armour and no benefit?

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