Base Design

-SmashN-
-SmashN-
Strike-force Captain
Joined May 2012 Posts: 617
edited 23 Mar 2013, 2:53AM

Been playing 4 or 5 days now and I am level 16 (on vacation out of state when I got the invite)

Just wondering what you all think about this base design. This is my first actual setup - I'm not protecting RGs - only my storage. Level 3 Outpost.Level 4 turrets with level III heavy beam lasers + level II tritanium plate and Level II Guass Guns no armor due to weight. I got a one hour bubble from a base test, guy only hit 4 resource gatherers and it still bubbled me... a little confusing.

 

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  • Krazie243
    Krazie243
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 10,669
    Last I checked, any attack at all regardless of damage will put you into 1hr protection. Not sure if there are any other sorts of protection at the moment as I have never been on the defending side of an **** whooping yet.
    I don't play much anymore =(
  • -SmashN-
    -SmashN-
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 617
    Oh okay - well, I would call 4 RGs an **** whooping - but okay :)

  • Krazie243
    Krazie243
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 10,669
    Haha

    Well I would personally move your base down and right a little bit and snuggy up with the RGs. The design of the towers around the OP is genius, but you can afford to be closer to the RGs without compromising that formation. At least that way fewer RGs fall to scavengers.

    I got a good hurting last night and had over 3 hrs DP when I logged in. So I imagine the really painful hits give you a large amount of time to yourself.
    I don't play much anymore =(
  • Simpson Bart
    Simpson Bart
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,003
    I'd also move my whole base closer to RG, I'm getting raided like there's a target on my back.

    As a side note, how did you get 400K resources? I didn't even reach 100 I'm so raided (and spend). Outpost 3 is giving me vertigo at 200K requirements. But, I upped lasers and added some long range thingy and I'm hoping to get some results.

    I mainly get my RGs hit.
  • RealNightFury
    RealNightFury
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 1,663
    I'd also move my whole base closer to RG, I'm getting raided like there's a target on my back.

    As a side note, how did you get 400K resources? I didn't even reach 100 I'm so raided (and spend). Outpost 3 is giving me vertigo at 200K requirements. But, I upped lasers and added some long range thingy and I'm hoping to get some results.

    I mainly get my RGs hit.
    I have 2million resources now. My friend has 3mils+
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  • Krazie243
    Krazie243
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 10,669
    I'd also move my whole base closer to RG, I'm getting raided like there's a target on my back.

    As a side note, how did you get 400K resources? I didn't even reach 100 I'm so raided (and spend). Outpost 3 is giving me vertigo at 200K requirements. But, I upped lasers and added some long range thingy and I'm hoping to get some results.

    I mainly get my RGs hit.
    If you're getting hit before you're at OP3 you might be in some trouble. I got to OP3 before my beginner's protection wore off. But make sure your base has both gauss and lasers to deter the simple attackers. Folk with Rancors will still be an issue until you get some stuff researched.

    As for loot, that is easy to get. I can score millions from cargos alone, and when I find good base targets I can score a full mil or more on a single hit.
    I don't play much anymore =(
  • Flo
    Flo
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 8,586

    I'd also move my whole base closer to RG, I'm getting raided like there's a target on my back.

    As a side note, how did you get 400K resources? I didn't even reach 100 I'm so raided (and spend). Outpost 3 is giving me vertigo at 200K requirements. But, I upped lasers and added some long range thingy and I'm hoping to get some results.

    I mainly get my RGs hit.
    I have 2million resources now. My friend has 3mils+
    I have 4.6 mill storage...but even for me, most attackers can take out 2-3 storages and only not more because of my high armor turrets...until Someone has torps and polaron, I doubt a base is well defendable
    Currently playing: Vega Conflict
    Alliance: Galaxy Lords

  • Krazie243
    Krazie243
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 10,669
    Flo said:
    I have 4.6 mill storage...but even for me, most attackers can take out 2-3 storages and only not more because of my high armor turrets...until Someone has torps and polaron, I doubt a base is well defendable
    Actually, I have seen bases that look like the one in the picture that are a royal pain in the arse to destroy even with rancors. Even though it is possible for rancors to kill bases like these without damage (or very little) using the right control, the 5 minute timer will go out long before a full base kill is completed. Now that is regarding people that are low enough level to attack someone that is not yet OP3. Above that level range people with rancors may have more efficient ways of killing so it is extremely wise to get polarons.
    I don't play much anymore =(
  • Flo
    Flo
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 8,586
    Flo said:
    I have 4.6 mill storage...but even for me, most attackers can take out 2-3 storages and only not more because of my high armor turrets...until Someone has torps and polaron, I doubt a base is well defendable
    Actually, I have seen bases that look like the one in the picture that are a royal pain in the arse to destroy even with rancors. Even though it is possible for rancors to kill bases like these without damage (or very little) using the right control, the 5 minute timer will go out long before a full base kill is completed. Now that is regarding people that are low enough level to attack someone that is not yet OP3. Above that level range people with rancors may have more efficient ways of killing so it is extremely wise to get polarons.
    Gauss+Longbow can defeat any base without torps to my knowledge...
    Currently playing: Vega Conflict
    Alliance: Galaxy Lords

  • Kryzm
    Kryzm
    Greenhorn
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 4
    Which brings up the question of how do we level the playing field for the defender.  As it is right now there is very little one can do to win as a defender.  People can either simply driver and have weapons miss them or do the Harlem Shake while at the helm and not get hit by incoming fire.  Now i do understand that as players get higher and have access to top tier weapons that it may finally level the playing field but for mid level players being the defender is almost a certain lose.
  • Krazie243
    Krazie243
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 10,669
    Flo said:
    Gauss+Longbow can defeat any base without torps to my knowledge...
    Tried it, doesn't work. Longbows are too slow and lacking in power. When someone properly alternates tower types you need something as battle ready as the Rancor to stand any chance in properly harming someone.

    Longbows can sometimes handle 1 or 2 Guass, but when an 8 tower base has 4 of each Gauss and Laser there is no chance of using such slow strafing ships. Even Rancors get tricky at that point. It isn't until the Rancors get some pretty toys that it gets easier.

    Now, in a base where people don't know how to position towers... that is a completely different story, lol
    I don't play much anymore =(
  • Flo
    Flo
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 8,586
    Flo said:
    Gauss+Longbow can defeat any base without torps to my knowledge...
    Tried it, doesn't work. Longbows are too slow and lacking in power. When someone properly alternates tower types you need something as battle ready as the Rancor to stand any chance in properly harming someone.

    Longbows can sometimes handle 1 or 2 Guass, but when an 8 tower base has 4 of each Gauss and Laser there is no chance of using such slow strafing ships. Even Rancors get tricky at that point. It isn't until the Rancors get some pretty toys that it gets easier.

    Now, in a base where people don't know how to position towers... that is a completely different story, lol
    You only have to strafe the gauss...believe me, my base has 2 gauss covering any point in my polaron range and people could take out a part of it...and rancors don#t last long against polarons.
    Currently playing: Vega Conflict
    Alliance: Galaxy Lords

  • Krazie243
    Krazie243
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 10,669
    Strafing Longbows is close to impossible. While it can be done, it can't be done quickly. In order to kill (example) the outpost with Longbows you need a pile of Longbows (which makes strafing a million times harder) or a lot of time. The lots of time conflicts with being able to waste the base and the lots of ships conflicts with being able to do it without suffering lots of losses. Longbows are one of the worst ships to use against a Gauss/Laser base. Rancors are infinitely better (mostly due to having twice the weapons available). And I've used Harriers against Gauss with pleasure when there are no lasers around. Harriers are so much better at it. That is why a 4/4 Gauss/Laser base is a pain in the arse at lower levels if the towers are made right (see picture in the first post of this thread).

    Of course, I'm ignoring the weapon on the outpost too. Towers are a pain enough, but the outpost lasts a long time so that leaves for a lot of strafing while trying to make sure shots that mis your lead ship don't hit your other ones (and that is really tricky when there are like 3 or 4 or 5 Gauss shots coming in at a time)

    Basically I'm saying that a base design like above is great if the tower selection is wise. And in that situation you'll want rancors and target the polarons first so you can decimate the rest. If someone sticks a polaron on the outpost you are most likely up a creek to try and attack that base.
    I don't play much anymore =(
  • Simpson Bart
    Simpson Bart
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 1,003
    Curtis Smale said:

    If you're getting hit before you're at OP3 you might be in some trouble. I got to OP3 before my beginner's protection wore off. But make sure your base has both gauss and lasers to deter the simple attackers. Folk with Rancors will still be an issue until you get some stuff researched.

    As for loot, that is easy to get. I can score millions from cargos alone, and when I find good base targets I can score a full mil or more on a single hit.

    Flo said:
    I have 4.6 mill storage...but even for me, most attackers can take out 2-3 storages and only not more because of my high armor turrets...until Someone has torps and polaron, I doubt a base is well defendable
       I didn't see most of the raids, but I did witness one.

      He came with 5 longbows and another ship, I think it was the Cruiser, before the longbows. I had most of my turrets as mass throwers, with 2 laser guarding the area. What happened was, he got his longbows in a semicircle, outside the range of my drivers (I keep saying drivers because that's what they are, mass drivers, but I had the lower tech) and what he did is troll all my turrets, by strafing his ship and all my turrets engaged the bait, while the longbows rained on my base. He did this for 4 minutes, after which the defenses crumbled, allowing him to nuke the CC and the 2 storages I use.

      This is embarrassing. I got trolled (or correctly baited, depending on who you ask) for almost 5 minutes, nothing I could do. With an outpost at L3 all my options are lasers and the impact thingies. I think. And no matter how much I research, it will be a full few days before I can up my defenses another notch. But I'm telling you that's not the issue, the guy had like 3 hits on his baiter and 3 on his siege formation, by chance alone. I wouldn't matter if I fired black holes, he would have still creamed me. Which is weird, because you would think that with 5 drivers firing I would have hit SOMETHING.

      Either I gut creamed by a very, very good player or the defenses are too poor at this level.

      I decided to test my theory and got a fleet of 6 ships, all Genesis cruiser, armed with lasers, and proceeded to storm a base belonging to a guy who raided me. I decided to dispense with the tactics and, after dodging some of my approach, I made a beeline for the inner base. I creamed 6 resourcers, several turrets, a storage and most of the outpost. Just by ordering them in. So I'm leaning towards poor defenses in the lower levels.

      I'd also like to say I saw someone come with a battleship and 5 longbows, got creamed. He wondered in range of my laser turret and got shredded before he could retreat, followed by longbow soup. So, not exactly bad defenses, just incredibly susceptible to trolling.
  • Flo
    Flo
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 8,586
    Strafing Longbows is close to impossible. While it can be done, it can't be done quickly. In order to kill (example) the outpost with Longbows you need a pile of Longbows (which makes strafing a million times harder) or a lot of time. The lots of time conflicts with being able to waste the base and the lots of ships conflicts with being able to do it without suffering lots of losses. Longbows are one of the worst ships to use against a Gauss/Laser base. Rancors are infinitely better (mostly due to having twice the weapons available). And I've used Harriers against Gauss with pleasure when there are no lasers around. Harriers are so much better at it. That is why a 4/4 Gauss/Laser base is a pain in the arse at lower levels if the towers are made right (see picture in the first post of this thread).

    Of course, I'm ignoring the weapon on the outpost too. Towers are a pain enough, but the outpost lasts a long time so that leaves for a lot of strafing while trying to make sure shots that mis your lead ship don't hit your other ones (and that is really tricky when there are like 3 or 4 or 5 Gauss shots coming in at a time)

    Basically I'm saying that a base design like above is great if the tower selection is wise. And in that situation you'll want rancors and target the polarons first so you can decimate the rest. If someone sticks a polaron on the outpost you are most likely up a creek to try and attack that base.
    Curtis, if you are above level 20, please give me your coords so I can demonstrate you wrong
    Currently playing: Vega Conflict
    Alliance: Galaxy Lords

  • Krazie243
    Krazie243
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 10,669

      He came with 5 longbows and another ship, I think it was the Cruiser, before the longbows. I had most of my turrets as mass throwers, with 2 laser guarding the area. What happened was, he got his longbows in a semicircle, outside the range of my drivers (I keep saying drivers because that's what they are, mass drivers, but I had the lower tech) and what he did is troll all my turrets, by strafing his ship and all my turrets engaged the bait, while the longbows rained on my base. He did this for 4 minutes, after which the defenses crumbled, allowing him to nuke the CC and the 2 storages I use.

      This is embarrassing. I got trolled (or correctly baited, depending on who you ask) for almost 5 minutes, nothing I could do. With an outpost at L3 all my options are lasers and the impact thingies. I think. And no matter how much I research, it will be a full few days before I can up my defenses another notch. But I'm telling you that's not the issue, the guy had like 3 hits on his baiter and 3 on his siege formation, by chance alone. I wouldn't matter if I fired black holes, he would have still creamed me. Which is weird, because you would think that with 5 drivers firing I would have hit SOMETHING.
    I'm not saying that baiting is impossible, but with a well built base it shouldn't be as easy as you described. I've seen bases that even with poor tower location choices leave me dodging Guass shots from an angle variance sometimes as big as 90 degrees. So I'd be strafing from one shot and running into the next that is coming directly at me (along the strafe axis). For this reason a well designed base is going to be hell to properly evade Gauss shots like that. I suppose there is always the potential to drive around straight (which always evades up to a certain degree of incoming angles) but then you'd have to turn around at some point to remain in the target range of all the Gauss cannons. And there is always the possibility (which grows exponentially as numbers increase) that a shot at the bait will travel to the Longbows. And you can't say those ships won't be in range because there is no weapon in the game a ship can have that outranges Gauss cannons.

    Now I do agree with your followup - defenses at the lower levels are really pathetic. Which is why it is good it takes so long to get your hands on Rancors. You get at least half a chance of obtaining Polarons before they begin storming you. And heavy Gauss defenses coupled with Lasers will keep them from slaughtering you (unless driven by strong players/good 'micro')
    I don't play much anymore =(
  • Krazie243
    Krazie243
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 10,669
    Flo said:
    Curtis, if you are above level 20, please give me your coords so I can demonstrate you wrong
    Heh, I'm sure you've got a killer fleet stoppable by only the best of defenses, but I have Polarons so I can't exactly provide you with a proper test. You'd lose your bait (if any) very quickly and your longbows would simply not last. Try as you might to dodge things you will go down. Perhaps you have Plasma Torpedoes? That is about the only thing I can think of that will give you a chance. And one thing that we've forgotten to discuss is the weapon range of the ship. It is easier and easier to dodge as you are farther away. So with Plasma Torpedoes at max range you stand a half decent chance of surviving. One of the detriments of projectile weapons being so slow for longer range weapons.

    Obviously most of my analysis has been based on the weaponry available to the person starting this thread. Someone at (or near) level 16 isn't going to be within even a few days to a week of having Plasma Torpedoes. I'm level 22 and even I don't have them yet. So while it may be possible to deal with dodging Gauss with Plasma Torpedoes it is not anywhere close to reasonable to routinely try it with Railguns (which barely outrange lasers on Longbows). We're talking the difference between 4000m * 1.4 = 5600m range on Railguns to the 5500m * 1.4 = 7700m range on Plasma Torpedoes. That's a whole 2100m increase in dodging distance. Gives you quite a bit more time to deal with the incoming.
    I don't play much anymore =(
  • Flo
    Flo
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 8,586

      He came with 5 longbows and another ship, I think it was the Cruiser, before the longbows. I had most of my turrets as mass throwers, with 2 laser guarding the area. What happened was, he got his longbows in a semicircle, outside the range of my drivers (I keep saying drivers because that's what they are, mass drivers, but I had the lower tech) and what he did is troll all my turrets, by strafing his ship and all my turrets engaged the bait, while the longbows rained on my base. He did this for 4 minutes, after which the defenses crumbled, allowing him to nuke the CC and the 2 storages I use.

      This is embarrassing. I got trolled (or correctly baited, depending on who you ask) for almost 5 minutes, nothing I could do. With an outpost at L3 all my options are lasers and the impact thingies. I think. And no matter how much I research, it will be a full few days before I can up my defenses another notch. But I'm telling you that's not the issue, the guy had like 3 hits on his baiter and 3 on his siege formation, by chance alone. I wouldn't matter if I fired black holes, he would have still creamed me. Which is weird, because you would think that with 5 drivers firing I would have hit SOMETHING.
    I'm not saying that baiting is impossible, but with a well built base it shouldn't be as easy as you described. I've seen bases that even with poor tower location choices leave me dodging Guass shots from an angle variance sometimes as big as 90 degrees. So I'd be strafing from one shot and running into the next that is coming directly at me (along the strafe axis). For this reason a well designed base is going to be hell to properly evade Gauss shots like that. I suppose there is always the potential to drive around straight (which always evades up to a certain degree of incoming angles) but then you'd have to turn around at some point to remain in the target range of all the Gauss cannons. And there is always the possibility (which grows exponentially as numbers increase) that a shot at the bait will travel to the Longbows. And you can't say those ships won't be in range because there is no weapon in the game a ship can have that outranges Gauss cannons.

    Now I do agree with your followup - defenses at the lower levels are really pathetic. Which is why it is good it takes so long to get your hands on Rancors. You get at least half a chance of obtaining Polarons before they begin storming you. And heavy Gauss defenses coupled with Lasers will keep them from slaughtering you (unless driven by strong players/good 'micro')
    If a base is spread
    Flo said:
    Curtis, if you are above level 20, please give me your coords so I can demonstrate you wrong
    Heh, I'm sure you've got a killer fleet stoppable by only the best of defenses, but I have Polarons so I can't exactly provide you with a proper test. You'd lose your bait (if any) very quickly and your longbows would simply not last. Try as you might to dodge things you will go down. Perhaps you have Plasma Torpedoes? That is about the only thing I can think of that will give you a chance. And one thing that we've forgotten to discuss is the weapon range of the ship. It is easier and easier to dodge as you are farther away. So with Plasma Torpedoes at max range you stand a half decent chance of surviving. One of the detriments of projectile weapons being so slow for longer range weapons.

    Obviously most of my analysis has been based on the weaponry available to the person starting this thread. Someone at (or near) level 16 isn't going to be within even a few days to a week of having Plasma Torpedoes. I'm level 22 and even I don't have them yet. So while it may be possible to deal with dodging Gauss with Plasma Torpedoes it is not anywhere close to reasonable to routinely try it with Railguns (which barely outrange lasers on Longbows). We're talking the difference between 4000m * 1.4 = 5600m range on Railguns to the 5500m * 1.4 = 7700m range on Plasma Torpedoes. That's a whole 2100m increase in dodging distance. Gives you quite a bit more time to deal with the incoming.
    I do have plasma torpdoes(since level 22)...and if well controlled, I can take out any base without heavy torps...I don't even need a bait.
    Currently playing: Vega Conflict
    Alliance: Galaxy Lords

  • THEBEARD98
    THEBEARD98
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 1,478
    any longbow with torps can take any base without torp defense if driven well.

    "KIXEYE makes no guarantee as to the nature, quality or value of the features of the Service that will accessible through the use of Virtual Currency, or the availability or supply of Virtual Currency." -copied from new TOS

  • Krazie243
    Krazie243
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2010 Posts: 10,669
    Flo said:
    I do have plasma torpdoes(since level 22)...and if well controlled, I can take out any base without heavy torps...I don't even need a bait.
    Yeah they need to do something about Plasma Torpedoes. They are a bit OP
    I don't play much anymore =(
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