Damage Protection Rule Changes

  • Azmodan
    Azmodan
    Potential Threat
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 69
    Jim Waters wrote: »
    The question was, if you are guarding a salvage you opened, who initiates the attack. It used to be the defender of the cargo, but to be sure a buddy of mine and I tried a test of it. The person going AFTER the cargo initiates the attack, so while salvaging if you are protecting an opened salvage, your bubble should not drop as it says you are the defender now. Had to clear this up because several posts were for each, including mine which was wrong. Here is the battle report proof.
    Attachment not found.

    Thank you, for taking the time to try this out. I stand corrected. :)
    But I still think that a person should still be able to fight FVF with a bubble. It makes the game unplayable, during a bubble. With long repair times, all you are able to do, is log on, hit repair, and log off. Is that the direction that you want this game to go? I thought the goal was to increase the number of people who play, not lessen it. o.O
    Current Level 63
    I don't understand your need for constant drama........its only a click to repair.
  • Aldon
    Aldon
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 196
    The only problem i see is that the short bubbles start right away. I would start the time ONCE the repair button is hit. It is often that i cant log on for 12-24 hours, so someone could kill almost half my base, cause i work, they can come back in 12 hours and finish killing it! This would also allow you to track who isn't playing anymore and remove the bases that are not being played.
    BYM ID: 10612135
    BP ID: 1963511 Sector 268
  • KIXEYE Swag
    KIXEYE Swag
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 3,665
    2) the players who have learned who to apply the 2day friendly base bubbles in order to collect salvages, pay for research, and build up their own base assets.

    You're missing the point: that is an EXPLOIT and never should have been a viable "tactic" in the first place. Damage Protection was not created with the idea that it would be abused like this.
  • caribbean girl
    caribbean girl
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 5,964
    agreed,thanks for changing the rules :)
    You're missing the point: that is an EXPLOIT and never should have been a viable "tactic" in the first place. Damage Protection was not created with the idea that it would be abused like this.
    not a normal gal...xoxo
  • John G Jones
    John G Jones
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 4
    Dear Kixeye
    I do AGREE there needs to be a rule change in this area. A person or persons should not be able to hide under DP without receiving damage. So, can you only change the "No Damage" portion of this rule. There should be no DP for a non-damaged hit or multiple non-damaged hits. Because there is no repair time associated with it. Is it possible to associate percent of damage to DP? Repair times are lengthy and Damage Protection is required to recover and to improve base defenses. I feel the times already established are adequate to the performance of the game and only the Non-damage part needs to be afflicted!
    IGN: CRUNCH  LEVEL: 74  GROUP: (KD) Killem Dead  Alliance: (KDE)  HOME SECTOR: 50  TRAVELED SECTORS: 269, 404, 223, 71, 124, 321, 188, 153, 266, 442, 404, 101, 158, 328, 415, 498, 354, 465, 281, 114, 192, 267
  • Hoosier
    Hoosier
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 7
    Swag, the change is a good idea but needs some major tweaking. I have a good idea, I think, that will help everyone out, not just the heavy coiners that you all seem to support the most.

    keep the +/- 5 level base hit ability but tweak it like this
    If hitting levels as follow:
    -5 levels 2 hits
    -4 levels 2 hits
    -3 levels 3 hits
    -2 levels 4 hits
    -1 to +5 levels 5 hits

    This can be tweaked to give damage protection equal to the % of damage given.

    This kind of damage protection rule will help the smaller guys have some protection from the bigger levels that do nothing but hit -5 levels below them, because it's easy. And will promote hitting levels closer or equal to your actual base/player level.
    I know the higher level players will complain about this kind of layout, but it's time the smaller guys get some support and protection from the large players.

    Also get the alliance system online so BP friends can help defend a friends base from attackers. PLEASE!
  • Silver_Back
    Silver_Back
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 132
    The whole thing sounds great to me. One thing I would suggest if it hasn't already (didnt want to go through 66 pages). I would just make the dock immune to rockets, that would take care of all the little cowards that run around and rocket docks and make them hit your base to get the dock. Just a thought.

    Most good players use the rockets on turrets in base attacks anyway, the dock is just the prize at the end of the tunnel. :D
    SilverBack - Lvl65

    Hulls - Who cares (All of them)
    Sectors - Travel everywhere to Insector Hit
    Memorials - I  hit them all!!  :)
  • justin81
    justin81
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 147
    I must have missed it, when did anyone say that FvF would pop your bubble?

    NM found it. Hopefully they will not be the case.
    EVO_FF
    Freedom Fighters
  • la818
    la818
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 370
    This is awesome cant wait for this to take effect :D
    :crying: QUIT YOUR WHINING!!!!!!!! :crying:
    don't click this link...
    I'm quoting this so once you see it's incorrect, I can taunt you with it. ;)
    Slashmach wrote: »
    keep ur memorials somewhere it actually matters, u know like the real world.
  • Doombunny
    Doombunny
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 1,332
    You're missing the point: that is an EXPLOIT and never should have been a viable "tactic" in the first place. Damage Protection was not created with the idea that it would be abused like this.

    If thats the case, just remove the 10 hit-2 day bubble. There is no need to shorten bubble times or include the FvF clause.
  • BP_TGP
    BP_TGP
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 585
    We already answered the concern in the Q&A: join an alliance. There is safety in numbers. The official Alliance feature is currently in development and there will certainly be a desire for all level of players in an Alliance.

    Alliances should not in any way shape or form be looked to as a solution to anything. There are some of us who have no desire to be in an alliance. I started this game by myself and I'm going to continue playing it by myself, if i'm forced to join an alliance because you guys go and screw up the game well I think that'll be it for me.

    Remember Kids

    Say NO!!!!!!!!!!!! to FORCED ALLIANCES
    Sink or Swim
  • Captain Crapalot
    Captain Crapalot
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 293
    You're missing the point: that is an EXPLOIT and never should have been a viable "tactic" in the first place. Damage Protection was not created with the idea that it would be abused like this.

    Swag people buy 2 day and much longer bubbles, why is the one exploiting and the other not? Fact is sometimes you need a bubble, bought or not, otherwise the option to buy one would not be there. To remove only the one side of the problem seems a bit unfair.
  • LUCKY-V
    LUCKY-V
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,103
    Doombunny wrote: »
    If thats the case, just remove the 10 hit-2 day bubble. There is no need to shorten bubble times or include the FvF clause.

    Agree with ^^^^^
  • Azmodan
    Azmodan
    Potential Threat
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 69
    Doombunny wrote: »
    If thats the case, just remove the 10 hit-2 day bubble. There is no need to shorten bubble times or include the FvF clause.

    .....That's an elegant solution to a simple problem. I agree completely! ;)
    Current Level 63
    I don't understand your need for constant drama........its only a click to repair.
  • Roland Bullock
    Roland Bullock
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 931
    Swag people buy 2 day and much longer bubbles, why is the one exploiting and the other not? Fact is sometimes you need a bubble, bought or not, otherwise the option to buy one would not be there. To remove only the one side of the problem seems a bit unfair.

    Because its a business, its the same issue that was going on with insta repair fleet glitch. Sure it was just like coining fleet repairs, but not right.
    Desert_Warfare
    Level 67 Originated in 142
    Currently in 191
  • Captain Crapalot
    Captain Crapalot
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 293
    Because its a business, its the same issue that was going on with insta repair fleet glitch. Sure it was just like coining fleet repairs, but not right.

    You are right of course. About it being a business. Fact is they need their free player base atm. That may change in the future, but right now they need them. So take away their only protection and see the results for yourself.

    Without any adequate protection you can keep a non coiner stationary for as long as you want, why should such a player keep on playing then. This bubble issue is more complex than just players abusing it.

    I am okay myself, level 33, most researches done, all upgrades too. My base does not even gets attacked anymore, unless I ask for a base test from some new comer in the sector.
  • exracer327
    exracer327
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 595
    Proposed New Damage Protection Rules
    Under the new system, there will be four different instances (two different situations) in which a player’s base would receive Damage Protection:
    • When a base has suffered 25% - 49% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 12 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has suffered 50% - 74% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 24 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has suffered 75% - 100% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 36 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has been attacked 8 times in four hours (but suffered less than 25% damage), the base will receive 1 hour of Damage Protection.

    I wasn't aware of anyone having problems with the 25%+ dmg giving an 18 hr bubble. If you want to add another dmg tier, wouldn't it make more sense to keep the first tier @ 18 and then maybe tier two could be 27 hrs and tier 3 be 36 hrs? That is a 9 hr jump between each tier and is basically keeping the current dmg system that we already have but adding an in-between tier of 27 hrs.

    Giving only a 12 hr bubble for 40+% dmg while someone is sleeping or working may give even the strongest of bases a hard time defending because they may still be repairing 12 hrs after the attack (figure a du4 turret = 6 hrs). And that's not including the hours of repair for the dock AND the hours of repair for the defending base fleet AFTER the dock is repaired. (Many defense fleets take between 8-12 hrs repair just by themselves).

    My proposal would be:
    • When a base has suffered 25% - 49% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 18 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has suffered 50% - 74% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 27 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has suffered 75% - 100% damage at the end of an attack, the base will receive 36 hours of Damage Protection.
    • When a base has been attacked 8 times in four hours (but suffered less than 25% damage), the base will receive 1 hour of Damage Protection.
  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Paul0 wrote: »
    This is just another win for coiners, who btw, are the ones complaining about 'Buddy Bubbles'. No bubbles for free players but coiners will still be able to buy bubbles, of course.

    Come out of fairyland there bub. EVERYONE, free and coiner alike, complains about buddy bubbles. And people can still get a 36 hour bubble but it has to be earned thru damage, not by someone going in and out of his or her base 10 times. You want to complain about "Bought" bubbles, fine, but under the new system BOTH types players are equal with this, because if a person that bought a bubble attacks.. they lose theirs as well.
    Rumseeker
    Lvl 34
    Sector 361
    ID 1122925
    Browser: Firefox
    OS: WIndows 7

    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Sayuri wrote: »
    No, Rumseeker, I have never been in an alliance. For the very reasons I stated earlier. And if you really like kicking RR's, their in 163 right now. Running their mouths and starting crap between players who have been friends and helped each other for quite a while.

    Yep and they are there because several groups finally got tired of them and kicked them out of 319,320,321 which they had been dominant in.. and were doing the exact same thing in. But as soon as the raid is over they'll be getting hit by more people. They are outside of my travel range right now.
    Rumseeker
    Lvl 34
    Sector 361
    ID 1122925
    Browser: Firefox
    OS: WIndows 7

    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Myko
    Myko
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 755
    I say go ahead and change the rule..worse that will happen is most non-coiners and coiners on a budget, or the the ones that depend on the bubble to goto work..will be the only ones to quit. Then we can all smash their bases..that one time, that lvling without healing gives..then maybe take a break and wait for the new generation of players, to get big enough to attack:p Although b4 putting this rule into affect, you might want to get rid of the thousands of dead accounts and make the map smaller:D
    Level: WTF


    Bend over, here comes the NUKE


    (ALL ABOARD) The short bus will be leaving soon..you know you want to lick the windows
  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Jim Waters wrote: »
    The question was, if you are guarding a salvage you opened, who initiates the attack. It used to be the defender of the cargo, but to be sure a buddy of mine and I tried a test of it. The person going AFTER the cargo initiates the attack, so while salvaging if you are protecting an opened salvage, your bubble should not drop as it says you are the defender now. Had to clear this up because several posts were for each, including mine which was wrong. Here is the battle report proof.
    Attachment not found.

    Thanks Jim, saves me the trouble of setting up a test like that.. hard to find someone on at 4 am in the morning.
    Rumseeker
    Lvl 34
    Sector 361
    ID 1122925
    Browser: Firefox
    OS: WIndows 7

    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Peaceful wrote: »
    I do hate the friendly bubbles. I don't give them or get them.

    But I am nervous about the shortened repair time bubble.

    Couldn't the bubble timer start after an attack once you hit the repair button? That way if you are away from your computer for work or even a vacation you cannot be attacked again until you're given the chance to repair. Also abandoned bases would be bubbled so you wouldn't waste time attacking them.

    Daily_LLama

    They could do that but the obvious problem with it is this.

    You and I are friends. We are within 5 levels of each other. You have hit John234 and gotten his goodies. You know he will hit you back at some point so you have me hit you just as you log off. I hit you and do 26% to your base which would put you into a bubble. You decide not to log on, for whatever reason, for 14 days. So now you have a bubble for 14 days +12 hours that you would normally get.

    And yes, under your proposal people would quickly figure that out and suddenly there is the "Free Vacation Mode"
    Rumseeker
    Lvl 34
    Sector 361
    ID 1122925
    Browser: Firefox
    OS: WIndows 7

    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Bloody Toes
    Bloody Toes
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 63
    why not make the docks, shipyards, labs and turrets the only things that count for damage bubble time? if an attacker rims all your factories that should not count as damage time for a bubble for it doesnt effect your base ability to defend itself. all the primary buildings hit and damaged are what count in an attack so for each turret or warehouse or lab it adds up the percentage for the bubble.
    this will prevent buddy bubbles.
  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Doombunny wrote: »
    If thats the case, just remove the 10 hit-2 day bubble. There is no need to shorten bubble times or include the FvF clause.

    Oh yes there is.

    I can't count the number of times where I have seen, as many have put it.. "People who just want to help their friends" .. get a bubble then out comes the sub fleets and then there they go, off killing everything that sails. They don't care if it's high level or low level, mining, salvaging or if it's in a battle or not. This is in no way fair to ANY player as the most you can do is attack their ships and sink them. Big deal.. they are under a bubble and can send more out while that one is repairing.

    This was an even larger problem back when subs repaired in under 5 minutes because even a crappy sub driver had 2-3 fleets of the things and yeah the sunk fleet had to travel back but he already had another one on the water and headed that way. I watched one guy that was level 21 sink over 200 fleets in the matter of a few hours with just predator subs and all this while he was under a bubble and talking trash in comms. THESE are the people that caused this. You can blame high levels all you like. You can blame coiners all you like.

    I saw this in many of the sectors that I visited, not just one or two. So I suspect that this problem was and is rampant still. Perhaps more than a few of those that are opposing this are those very same types.
    Rumseeker
    Lvl 34
    Sector 361
    ID 1122925
    Browser: Firefox
    OS: WIndows 7

    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    Kyle Reese wrote: »
    Alliances should not in any way shape or form be looked to as a solution to anything. There are some of us who have no desire to be in an alliance. I started this game by myself and I'm going to continue playing it by myself, if i'm forced to join an alliance because you guys go and screw up the game well I think that'll be it for me.

    Remember Kids

    Say NO!!!!!!!!!!!! to FORCED ALLIANCES

    NOONE is saying you HAVE to join an alliance. Far from it, but let's be honest. A person joins an alliance that is even half worth a crap and now it is not just them. They can call on allies that often are larger and have more advanced Tech to help them out if they are being hounded. An alliance does help because it gives the little guy that chance to start off right or to learn what things they should focus on.
    Rumseeker
    Lvl 34
    Sector 361
    ID 1122925
    Browser: Firefox
    OS: WIndows 7

    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Azmodan
    Azmodan
    Potential Threat
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 69
    why not make the docks, shipyards, labs and turrets the only things that count for damage bubble time? if an attacker rims all your factories that should not count as damage time for a bubble for it doesnt effect your base ability to defend itself. all the primary buildings hit and damaged are what count in an attack so for each turret or warehouse or lab it adds up the percentage for the bubble.
    this will prevent buddy bubbles.

    How do you figure that labs and shipyard help defend base? I don't understand your logic on this. Could you please explain this better?
    Current Level 63
    I don't understand your need for constant drama........its only a click to repair.
  • Azmodan
    Azmodan
    Potential Threat
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 69
    Rumseeker wrote: »
    Oh yes there is.

    I can't count the number of times where I have seen, as many have put it.. "People who just want to help their friends" .. get a bubble then out comes the sub fleets and then there they go, off killing everything that sails. They don't care if it's high level or low level, mining, salvaging or if it's in a battle or not. This is in no way fair to ANY player as the most you can do is attack their ships and sink them. Big deal.. they are under a bubble and can send more out while that one is repairing.

    This was an even larger problem back when subs repaired in under 5 minutes because even a crappy sub driver had 2-3 fleets of the things and yeah the sunk fleet had to travel back but he already had another one on the water and headed that way. I watched one guy that was level 21 sink over 200 fleets in the matter of a few hours with just predator subs and all this while he was under a bubble and talking trash in comms. THESE are the people that caused this. You can blame high levels all you like. You can blame coiners all you like.

    I saw this in many of the sectors that I visited, not just one or two. So I suspect that this problem was and is rampant still. Perhaps more than a few of those that are opposing this are those very same types.

    If subs bother you, Just sink them!! predator subs are easy kills. they already took away instant repair subs away, to appease the high levels...what more do you need?
    Current Level 63
    I don't understand your need for constant drama........its only a click to repair.
  • Rumseeker
    Rumseeker
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 2,893
    why not make the docks, shipyards, labs and turrets the only things that count for damage bubble time? if an attacker rims all your factories that should not count as damage time for a bubble for it doesnt effect your base ability to defend itself. all the primary buildings hit and damaged are what count in an attack so for each turret or warehouse or lab it adds up the percentage for the bubble.
    this will prevent buddy bubbles.

    Can't do that, because then it will simply lead to another exploit. Imagine if what you suggest comes to pass. Res Generators don't count towards a DP so I build them all up to level 10. Place them on my outer ring as they were before but away from any other buildings. In 12 hours they are each full so I just tell my allies where to come in and every 12 hours one or more persons can get millions in Res, as well as XP to level up and VXP. Costs nothing in repair for either of us. Rinse and repeat every 12 hours.





    Azmodan wrote: »
    How do you figure that labs and shipyard help defend base? I don't understand your logic on this. Could you please explain this better?

    I'm guessing he means that the only defensive value is that they count for DP Bubbles. Kill 10 out of 40 buildings and you are at 25% bubble.
    Rumseeker
    Lvl 34
    Sector 361
    ID 1122925
    Browser: Firefox
    OS: WIndows 7

    "Kicking the crap out of RRs wherever they Frubble"
  • Myko
    Myko
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 755
    Rumseeker wrote: »
    Oh yes there is.

    I can't count the number of times where I have seen, as many have put it.. "People who just want to help their friends" .. get a bubble then out comes the sub fleets and then there they go, off killing everything that sails. They don't care if it's high level or low level, mining, salvaging or if it's in a battle or not. This is in no way fair to ANY player as the most you can do is attack their ships and sink them. Big deal.. they are under a bubble and can send more out while that one is repairing.

    This was an even larger problem back when subs repaired in under 5 minutes because even a crappy sub driver had 2-3 fleets of the things and yeah the sunk fleet had to travel back but he already had another one on the water and headed that way. I watched one guy that was level 21 sink over 200 fleets in the matter of a few hours with just predator subs and all this while he was under a bubble and talking trash in comms. THESE are the people that caused this. You can blame high levels all you like. You can blame coiners all you like.

    I saw this in many of the sectors that I visited, not just one or two. So I suspect that this problem was and is rampant still. Perhaps more than a few of those that are opposing this are those very same types.

    Not really opposing the new rule, just the fact that this is suppose to be a pirate game, and the rules keep getting changed to accommodate the handful that whine..especially about the bubbles. People are whining like everyone sits in a bubble, when in fact people are to scared to attack a high lvl player thats not sitting in a bubble. Truth be told, most bubblers are small lvl..or at the five below point of the people complaining of the bubbles or just alt accounts..there is tons of people that are in my sector that do not use bubbles..but they are also lvl 33 and up..and rarely do they ever get attacked..but when our sector does get attacked, its by a lvl 33 that attacks a lvl 28..its rare that I see a lvl 33 or higher attack a same lvl person..so thats all this is about..high lvl players not being able to have an abundance of small lvl targets..in my opinion! but I also believe that 80 percent of bubblers are just ALT accounts hiding their resources, or using them to be an annoyance to other players..the other 20 percent is real players trying to build up their account to protect themselves from the high lvl players that have been attacking them...So I say leave it like it is..I have only seen 1 maybe 2 people ever complain about this in Comms..so not sure why this is an issue in the forums..I would say put it to a vote, but to many alt accounts for a fair vote!!
    Level: WTF


    Bend over, here comes the NUKE


    (ALL ABOARD) The short bus will be leaving soon..you know you want to lick the windows
  • LUCKY-V
    LUCKY-V
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,103
    Rumseeker wrote: »
    Oh yes there is.

    I can't count the number of times where I have seen, as many have put it.. "People who just want to help their friends" .. get a bubble then out comes the sub fleets and then there they go, off killing everything that sails. They don't care if it's high level or low level, mining, salvaging or if it's in a battle or not. This is in no way fair to ANY player as the most you can do is attack their ships and sink them. Big deal.. they are under a bubble and can send more out while that one is repairing.

    This was an even larger problem back when subs repaired in under 5 minutes because even a crappy sub driver had 2-3 fleets of the things and yeah the sunk fleet had to travel back but he already had another one on the water and headed that way. I watched one guy that was level 21 sink over 200 fleets in the matter of a few hours with just predator subs and all this while he was under a bubble and talking trash in comms. THESE are the people that caused this. You can blame high levels all you like. You can blame coiners all you like.

    I saw this in many of the sectors that I visited, not just one or two. So I suspect that this problem was and is rampant still. Perhaps more than a few of those that are opposing this are those very same types.

    I don't know where you are but I rarely see what you describe. As a matter of fact I have only seen the same people complain of the bubble situation over and over in forums. If anything this is starting to look more like a marketing opportunity by kixeye.

    I don't here anyone complaining in game comms about bubbles. I don't use them personally and the few that do I don not hear any others complaining about it.

    Don't see the need to change anything really.
This discussion has been closed.