New Level Structure (Part 2)

  • Joseph Blake
    Joseph Blake
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 546
    Lets look at the wheel, it's round, roles smoothly and works great on your car. Now, lets take that wheel and change it's shape. Lets make it square! Square wheels on our cars lol will cost more money for gas to keep it going and more money for all the repairs caused by the bumps as you go. Why Kixeye did you make the wheel square?
  • TheGeo
    TheGeo
    Greenhorn
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 15
    I like the new structure but why dont put a reward when passing to the next level?
    Prizes could be like 100 gold or some naked hull, this can make players more motivated to reach the next level
  • Rob Lively
    Rob Lively
    Greenhorn
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 8
    I personally can not wait i have altogether stopped playing because of being farmed as soon as my bubble pops by 32's and 33's when i am a 28 and can not effectivly hit back nor defend myself. i check back once a week to see if these changes to the level structure has taken affect. until then my base remains a smoking moldering pile of ruble i will not continue to waste hours of my time to make someone else in the game have a good time at my expense.
  • King Willian
    King Willian
    Greenhorn
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 2
    is a good idea.i like that. so that lvl 31 can't hit me anymore.:)
    and i can't get out of my base for two days. what happen to that. all my fleets r gone.
  • Modest Elitist
    Modest Elitist
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 1,928
    All this is now is a free for all on any 29 and above.Most level 29 players are just now getting DU4 and then almost a month to get all of their towers changed to level 4.What are you guys thinking?This is going to make it even harder on these level of players.I could only imagine the horror a level 29 player will have seeing a dread blitz fleet rolling through their base and cutting through it like butter being spread over dry toast.We are in a **** recession and people don't have the money to coin this crap to just play a free "cough cough yeah right" online social game on Facebook.Get a **** grip Kixeye.

    SC's are scary to watch blitzing through your base also.......
    Level:100
    Played Originally in Nov 2011.
  • GE999
    GE999
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 63
    If it isn't broken, don't fix it. We've all had to endure the current system and it balances out, why overhaul it?

    If you're worried about the really strong attacking weaker players that will be unable to retalerate, then decrease the xp value per level. Then those closer in level will really be closer in true experience and equipment.
    The Society of
    the Descendants of
    the Signers of
    the Declaration of
    Independence

  • silly
    silly
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 406
    First of all has any 1 figurd out how much in resources a full dread or battle ship fleet willmcome out wih. It not much
    More than 13,750,000. A hh and ff fleet can take 25 mill roughly. A cuda can mainly take only water targets, seriously the cargonamount aint worth mentoning. And to say us older players have not had to put up with the HH A's and B's. When do u think they came out junior. When i came up i hqd lvl 4'turrets by 27. I did DU4 first then rrsearched the FF. A lot of youngsters don't believe us when we say Any thing below du 4 on an ff or hh is asinine. Drac armor is different but that is the point, there are very few bases at 28 to 30 that seem to have learned any ways. If they made lvl 30 and up a free for all it still would have ppl unhappy.
  • silly
    silly
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 406
    Oh a lil tid bit of history for all the youngsters, originally the prize hull went to the top dog of the sector, then they eent to top 4 in base invades. Now it goes to who ever wants to earn it, whether by skill or cc. I saw where several lvl 24's claimed to spend a couple of hundred to get it. The older players aint the main cc spenders in these raids now, it's those lower lvl player's who got to have it all now!
  • Nobody N1C
    Nobody N1C
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jun 2012 Posts: 367
    Yea im a 33 and dont hit 28's and 29's unless they are anoying, they are too easy and still need to do some base building ... should be from 31-32 plus as the Free For All ... people on those levels are on a more even keel.
  • Fros-t
    Fros-t
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 349
    Ronni Dahl wrote: »
    doesent this mean you "cheat" lower bases like current 30 out of easy targets?? they will end up whit nothing to hit or am i wrong??


    sounds like it,but higher level players will be given a lot of easier targets to play with.
    Fros-t
  • silly
    silly
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 406
    Honestly any self respecting base at lvl 30 and above should have lvl 4 turrets and about as good defences as they are going to get. And besides they are already on the menue of a current 35 any ways so why does it matter
  • Fros-t
    Fros-t
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 349
    And hull 3 will take away something else u need on you basehitter.....This is just very stupid

    One way to fix this would be add a spec slot to every ship.Make it especially for hull streaming or just a spot for it in the front of every ship.This way people wouldnt just use the spec slot for something else.Maybe go as far to make a second one for engines.The second might speed basers up far to much though.Making bases far easier than before or causing one to misclick and die quickly.
    Fros-t
  • qman
    qman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 65
    So here is what they did the biggest players aka the biggest coiners got more levels to attack. The noobs got protection from the the level 31+ people that are now getting fleets that can do decent base hits. The players who just got done being level 25 - 29 farms for the big coiners are now the farms for big coiners again brilliant. Thanks again Kix in the eye. You are going to do it regardless so constructive criticism reserved.
    I agree 100%.

    So the lvl 31 and 32 guys will continue to be able to pulverize the lvl 26 and 27 players like they do now........FAIL. The higher level players that claim to never hit 4-5 levels down obviously don't play or border my section as that's all that happens. Love to see Kixeye pull some stats on whom the lvl 31-33 players in my area are hitting.

    As a lvl 27, I don't mind having to defend against a level 28 or 29, at least a well designed base has a decent chance at repelling them or at least making an incursion costly (as it should), but unless you drop a ton of cash into the game, there's no way you can build a base to prevent being raped by lvl 31-32 players. The Part 2 version of this structure does nothing to prevent that.

    IMO all this did was add more complication/confusion to end up with essentially the same setup we have now. A simple change from +/-5 levels to +/-2 levels would have been my suggestion.
  • Fros-t
    Fros-t
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 349
    I like the new structure but why dont put a reward when passing to the next level?
    Prizes could be like 100 gold or some naked hull, this can make players more motivated to reach the next level

    I like this idea.Also give the prizes we would have won by passing the levels we already have so none are left out
    Fros-t
  • Fros-t
    Fros-t
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 349
    The problem with that logic is this..

    There also were no Victory Mortars, Cerbs, Tower Specials, Defensive fleets, subs, etc.

    The FF's with Peacemaker mortars leveled our bases just fine and took 28M as 500% which was a lot tougher to make up then. You newer players have so many resources, many times you can make up the loss before your bubble drops. That was not always the case. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

    Oh and we did have dreads, battleships and alot of the old ships hitting us.This guy doesn't seem to realize That some of those ships were created long ago.
    Fros-t
  • qman
    qman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 65
    By the time you're (old) 29, you've either

    a) grown VERY slowly, had others open your salvage or spent TONS of time opening them yourself; and have DU4 with Lvl4 turrets and turret weapons and Lvl3 turret specials.

    b) are probably around DU3 with Lvl3 turrets, Lvl2-3 turret weapons, and Lvl 1-2 turret specials, but are starting to build SW and HH fleets with some Drac weapons and Lvl3 ship specials.

    It's not both. There is no frigging way it's both. You can only upgrade one building at a time, and you can only research one thing at a time in a lab. So you either have a base that hurts to take down, or you can play the game without whining and begging for everyone else to help you. By (old) 29, you have NOT had the time to get both goals done. And mounting Lvl2 turret specials is 6-10 hours per, and you have to redo it when you apply Lvl3 turret specials which seem to all be over a day each. That's over fourteen days right there, just for the Lvl3 turret specials, on top of the time to upgrade them to Lvl3 and then Lvl4 turrets, plus mounting the Lvl 4 turret weapons. So basically, most of an entire month just to refit a base out to full DU4 base defenses.

    If someone enjoys the game, why is it reasonable to demand they spend their first three to five months in game not developing ships, ship weapons, and ship specials that allow them to PLAY in favor of having a base that renders them tough to anyone not throwing 45+ day construction raid fleets at them? Sure you can spend that time and have a great base, but you can't DO ANYTHING because you'll have spent all your upgrade and research time on the base, and will still have marauders and battle barges with thuds. Hit a handful of low salvages, repair for an hour. And forget about being able to participate in the raids; the raids require ships that are effectively on level with those required to hit DU4 bases. So you'll be even further behind, missing out on raid ships, raid armors, raid weapons, etc...

    All this change does is allow folks with HH/FF fleets (or raid ships) full of Drac weapon and Lvl3 ship specials to own you at will; because either you have a tough base and CANNOT touch him in return (so he can attack you knowing he's safe), or you have decent fleets that might even be a bit threatening, but your base is wide open (so he knows you maybe can attack but he'll be able to easily get it all back as often as your bubble is down).

    Effectively, any salvaging you do is going to be for the benefit of all the high level players. It might not be so bad, you can just never keep any salvage in your base until after you've been bubbled, then run out and get it to do the next upgrade/research click; except every time you're leveled, there's a *HALF DAY* penalty on research and upgrades, apparently on top of what you lose between the time you're flattened and the time you log back in and click "repair". Which, of course, only has the result of leaving you in the "kick me, it's free" zone that much longer.

    Players go after those who are little, they're bullies. If you're high level and not, yay you. You're a very small minority. Most players hit five levels down, just because they can. All this does is turn what's now a five level range into a seven to ten level range. Yeah, a fresh free-for-all player really has a chance against players rocking multiple HH/FF fleets kitted with full drac weapons and max specials; and that doesn't *even* include Strikes, Interdictors, Dreads, or Goliaths.

    Four players just jumped into my sector yesterday. They're all 32+, one is 36. They each have at least two full fleets of dreads and strike cruisers fully kitted. Their base defense fleets are three to four goliaths. They spent their first eight hours in sector flattening everyone in range. Why? Because they can, because no one else in sector has dread fleets, and only one of our sector big guys has a goliath base defense fleet. Never mind there's no challenge, or no chance of a back-and-forth war. They showed up and started hammering everyone because no one can stop them. This is what players in online games do. And this game change will ENCOURAGE it.

    If this goes through, remove the time penalty for being flattened. At least then you can just know to be logged in every 36 hours, because your bubble will drop, you'll be flattened by a bully, can click repair, and then count the next 36 hours of progress on your weeks of upgrading and researching off. Hammerhead takes something like 20 days to research. At 12 hours of penalty per flattening, that 480 hours (20 days) goes to 636 hours (over 26 days) if you get flattened every time your bubble is down. A week of added penalty on an already incredibly long research just because someone else either started playing before you, or paid dollars. Yeah, great game design. Awesome balance there.

    There is no amount of skill, no amount of "I'm a clever and talented player" that overcomes in-game tech disparity. Period. Either you have a 30 to 45+ day construction time base defense fleet paired with your DU4 turrets with maxed weapons/specials, or you don't. Either you have a 30 to 45+ day construction time base fleet to hit back with, or you don't. There is nothing that gets around that. Ever. It is not a skill thing, it is a "who started playing first" thing, or a "who spent hundreds if not thousands of dollars on a facebook game" thing.

    If the business plan is to keep the coiners happy by allowing them to slam everyone else who hasn't opened up their credit card, well this accomplishes that. But it guarantees a lot of players will get tired of taking three steps forward and one back measured over a period of *months*. How many people are going to be willing to put up with months of that just to finally edge their base out to full kit, and finish the two fleets, minimum, they'll need to have a chance with (one full kit base defender, one full kit base attacker)?

    How do you talk a friend into playing the game with you when it's like that? "There's this game, it's fun, but you need to start playing now for an hour or two per week, for the next six to seven months. If you do that, by next year, you'll be able to play." What gamer is ever going to convince someone to come play a game when that's the game's reality?

    I'm guessing not many, but I guess if they're not spending it doesn't matter much does it? Or are we discounting the possibility of anyone ever getting to high level and *becoming* a coiner? This plan seems to ensure a huge percentage of lower free-for-all players will quit.

    Flame on high levels. Anyone who doesn't just take the poundings they have *zero* chance of defending or retaliating against is a whiner noob. Yup. Must be so, because high levels always say so. So flame on.
    This sums it up in a nutshell and is the best post in this thread.

    If the current proposals go thru, I suspect my time with this game will be short and I'll look for another alternative.
  • DaveG
    DaveG
    Greenhorn
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 1
    Why can this not be even simpler !!!

    If a lower level player want to try and hit a higher level, let them. They are at a dis-advantage the higher they try to hit.

    Higher player can only hit -1 to their own level.

    So its basically -1/+any

    Nice and simple :-)
  • silly
    silly
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 406
    Omg the current proposed system is for the current lvl 29 and up to be in the free for all. Plus they are going to open up the lvl ranges to. So there is diversity. Not every one is goi g to be happy, such is life. And when you think about your no insector hitting sectors weakened you for when the wolves showed up at your doore. You weren't able to learn what you needed to.
  • Styx
    Styx
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 13
    All this is now is a free for all on any 29 and above.Most level 29 players are just now getting DU4 and then almost a month to get all of their towers changed to level 4.What are you guys thinking?This is going to make it even harder on these level of players.I could only imagine the horror a level 29 player will have seeing a dread blitz fleet rolling through their base and cutting through it like butter being spread over dry toast.We are in a **** recession and people don't have the money to coin this crap to just play a free "cough cough yeah right" online social game on Facebook.Get a **** grip Kixeye.

    I couldn't agree more. My wife is one of those level 29's of which you speak. She has DU4 and just completed her level 4 turrets. But you try to get 20mil+ res on everything to upgrade your specials when you are hit every 36 hours by a level 33 or 34 player. And now you want to shorten her bubble time when she is attacked and add level 35 players and above to those she already has to worry about. I imagine that she, like most of the level 29-30 players, will quit when all this new bullshit is put into effect. And the part that pisses me off most is that I can't even hit the fleets that attack her because glitcheye has taken that part of the game away from us.
  • Arjan Hansen
    Arjan Hansen
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 208
    As many already said its easy for +5 lv player to crush your base then a -5 lv, I (Lv 28) have found out the hard way,at first thought i had a chance , then a lv 32 player sent his flt of HHs went in base, my turrets/ anti morts never stood 1 chance in hell (3s on 3 base With special) , in 1 ( ONE ) minute my defenses were no more , meaning i nvr get even... since those players got 4/4 turrets.

    So i go with Dave's idea and let the hitting lv -1/ +any begin, so players can get decent bases / research without being farmed every day

    Just my 2 cents
  • silly
    silly
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 406
    Wow you really think if you had time to research and upgrade every think you automatically have a bad **** base. It's design a base and not a farm. I've seen lvl 33's with everything and a poore design. What good is it to have it all and no clue how to use it?
  • silly
    silly
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 406
    A lvl 28 should already have lvl 4 turrets and weapons. It's just a matter of priority's. Meaning put the ff research off till later. And concentrate on design. Most lvl 4 weapons take a day to build and the lvl turret is a day as well. Its nit hard to keep up with the resource requirements.
  • Lewis Hulatt
    Lewis Hulatt
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 130
    FUN KILLERS

    I have played a while - due to invasions etc managed to get to lvl 29 a few days ago - I have lvl 3 turrets and lvl 3 walls - my main ships are BBs with some Levis and a handful of SWs/stalkers etc.
    it was already really difficult to research anything better - as a 28 getting hit mainly by 31s who had HHs and above - but now? my base has no chance against the fleets that assault it - the prizes in the raids already favour the higher levels and I had to work hard to get the first one or two prize levels. the chance to allowing everybody to farm 29s creates a bottle-neck - hardly anybody not already a 31 or more will not get the resources/tech to have an earthly at defending themselves. so everytime I come back to my base it will be flattened and I have a few hours between the base being repaired and being hit again to get resources which a few hours later will have been taken. the difference in power between a 26-29 and a 31-34 is immense and either the game should have been designed as a free for all which would have allowed me to recoup some of my losses by flattening low bases or a structure which means that only players of equivalent power can fight should be in place. as it is, the powerful are allowed to prey on the mid range, but the mid range don't get to do the same.

    the game is supposed to be FUN and where is the fun in always having your base under repair and unable to use your ships because your dock is down?
  • Captain Crapalot
    Captain Crapalot
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 293
    DaveG wrote: »
    Why can this not be even simpler !!!

    If a lower level player want to try and hit a higher level, let them. They are at a dis-advantage the higher they try to hit.

    Higher player can only hit -1 to their own level.

    So its basically -1/+any

    Nice and simple :-)

    +1000000 What a great simple idea. I can already hear the high levels whine:-) Btw it has been mentioned by quite a lot of people, never to receive a positive answer to this day.
  • silly
    silly
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 406
    I find it funny with the new prosed lvl system the + or - 5 is basically a 2.5 +/- of the old system. And the ppl who aremwhineingnabout the free for all range are already getting hit by 31 to 34's so what is the change there?
  • Captain_Hook
    Captain_Hook
    Potential Threat
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 58
    Under the system you propose, a Level 40 player would be able to be hit but any level above 40, thus making him an easy farm for high level players who need res. I think you need to introduce another modifier to reduce the amount of res one can haul as well to prevent higher level players from farming the lowest players they can. See the table below:

    Attacking Down

    -5 levels 50% of Cargo Limit
    -4 100%
    -3 200%
    -2 300%
    -1 400%

    Even 500%, the curent amount allowed for base hits

    Attacking Up

    +1 600%
    +2 700%
    +3 800%
    +4 900%
    +5 1000% The would be maximum hauling bonus. Nice bonus for the brave...

    This would prevent players from farming on bases 5 levels below them to acquire res, and be more fair as players are advancing through the levels. It does not prevent higher level players from attacking bases to punish a lower level player, just limits the profits.

    The way things are now, if a higher level player needs res for a new ship or upgrade, he can take it from a players 5 levels below with little damage. With this change he or she would have to hit 10 times as many bases and -5 levels to make the same amount but would also likely increase the amount of damage taken to do so. It promotes hitting at or near you own level, rather than going for the easiest prey. After all in Boxing you would not put a Heavyweight into the ring with a Lightweight for the title, too one-sided. You want fights to be in the same weight class... just more sporting...
  • Ikillevil
    Ikillevil
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 368
    Attacking Down

    -5 levels 50% of Cargo Limit
    -4 100%
    -3 200%
    -2 300%
    -1 400%

    Even 500%, the curent amount allowed for base hits

    Attacking Up

    +1 600%
    +2 700%
    +3 800%
    +4 900%
    +5 1000% The would be maximum hauling bonus. Nice bonus for the brave...

    Love this idea. Right now the only reason to attack at or above you level is for bragging rights/videos. Coupled with the new level system this could really shake things up.
  • qman
    qman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 65
    Under the system you propose, a Level 40 player would be able to be hit but any level above 40, thus making him an easy farm for high level players who need res. I think you need to introduce another modifier to reduce the amount of res one can haul as well to prevent higher level players from farming the lowest players they can. See the table below:

    Attacking Down

    -5 levels 50% of Cargo Limit
    -4 100%
    -3 200%
    -2 300%
    -1 400%

    Even 500%, the curent amount allowed for base hits

    Attacking Up

    +1 600%
    +2 700%
    +3 800%
    +4 900%
    +5 1000% The would be maximum hauling bonus. Nice bonus for the brave...

    This would prevent players from farming on bases 5 levels below them to acquire res, and be more fair as players are advancing through the levels. It does not prevent higher level players from attacking bases to punish a lower level player, just limits the profits.

    The way things are now, if a higher level player needs res for a new ship or upgrade, he can take it from a players 5 levels below with little damage. With this change he or she would have to hit 10 times as many bases and -5 levels to make the same amount but would also likely increase the amount of damage taken to do so. It promotes hitting at or near you own level, rather than going for the easiest prey. After all in Boxing you would not put a Heavyweight into the ring with a Lightweight for the title, too one-sided. You want fights to be in the same weight class... just more sporting...
    Definitely an idea that deserves further consideration.
  • Captain_Hook
    Captain_Hook
    Potential Threat
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 58
    Walter Guy wrote: »
    Love this idea. Right now the only reason to attack at or above you level is for bragging rights/videos. Coupled with the new level system this could really shake things up.

    Thanks Walter.

    Yes, without creating a real limit, this plan stresses that you hit nearer to your own level or above. Yet you can still make retaliation strikes. I see many level 30+ players hitting 25 thru 30 just for the easy res, no more difficult for them that hitting a salvage. So either they will have to his 10 times as many or they can go back to high level salvages like the rest of us.

    As you can see from the chart, only a -3 hit would give you more res than a sal, and that's a little bit closer to a fair fight. You will take some damage in this case. But if you really want res, hit your own weight or higher. Earn it.

    For too long the preyed upon were in the 25-30 range, now this will refocus a lot of the fighting towards the higher levels and to a fairer fight.

    I am a level 30 myself, it was hard to get there, but now my base is so tough, that it is stopping most 32s and 33s dead in their tracks. I had to refocus on having a strong fleet to a stronger base, and now that it nears completion, I am back to building base fleets again...
  • Captain Crapalot
    Captain Crapalot
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 293
    Under the system you propose, a Level 40 player would be able to be hit but any level above 40, thus making him an easy farm for high level players who need res. I think you need to introduce another modifier to reduce the amount of res one can haul as well to prevent higher level players from farming the lowest players they can. See the table below:

    Attacking Down

    -5 levels 50% of Cargo Limit
    -4 100%
    -3 200%
    -2 300%
    -1 400%

    Even 500%, the curent amount allowed for base hits

    Attacking Up

    +1 600%
    +2 700%
    +3 800%
    +4 900%
    +5 1000% The would be maximum hauling bonus. Nice bonus for the brave...

    This would prevent players from farming on bases 5 levels below them to acquire res, and be more fair as players are advancing through the levels. It does not prevent higher level players from attacking bases to punish a lower level player, just limits the profits.

    The way things are now, if a higher level player needs res for a new ship or upgrade, he can take it from a players 5 levels below with little damage. With this change he or she would have to hit 10 times as many bases and -5 levels to make the same amount but would also likely increase the amount of damage taken to do so. It promotes hitting at or near you own level, rather than going for the easiest prey. After all in Boxing you would not put a Heavyweight into the ring with a Lightweight for the title, too one-sided. You want fights to be in the same weight class... just more sporting...

    Grand idea, been mentioned quite often, with maybe minor differences. Somehow it does not seem attractive to KIXEYE.
This discussion has been closed.