Predator Submarine Armor Adjustment

  • Mordrid
    Mordrid
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 4
    Personnally, I don't agree with the adjustment of the base armor on the preditor subs. I think it should be left as it is. In my sector we have invaders from other sectors hit our bases and salvages all the time. Why not make invaders pay massively for their invading of our space? Let those who fear subs either learn how to use them themselves, or begin to develop tactics wheree they can take out sub fleets. If you do this to predator subs, then you must also do this for marauders which can do the same thing which would put the screws to the newbies who have to use the marauders.

    I don't use my subs that much, but when I do, it is good to have them available quickly when fighting off an invasion. If you want to change the repair time so much, why not lessen the repair time of complex heavily armored fleets to times that are managable. It really is anoying to take out a fortress fleet and have 6 hours of repairs when you return to base.

    I know, that my own answer will be thrown back into my face, develop tactics that will enable you to do your salvages with minimal repairs.
  • bees
    bees
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,999
    The Predator Submarines currently have a base armor value of 80. This means that if Predators are not equipped with any additional armor and have small flagship, they can instant repair. After several months of seeing how the Predator is being used in combat, we feel that they should not be able to instant repair.

    We will be buffing the base armor value of Predator Submarines to ensure that no fleet combination of “4 Predators + a small flagship” will allow for an instant repair time.

    What about longships, maunders you can instant repair? I bet you do this because you lose money on people that can instant repair subs. I see all things you guys have added in this new future plans i plain stupid. Guess spending money on this game now is pointless. BTW i don't use subs anymore but i don't see the problem with them get instant repair! The game work very well now why change it to worse? If i want to play a complicated game i play a real game. The reason why i liked to play BP because it was a simple small game with no tho much advanced stuff! Guess i go back and play real games!
  • gtslow
    gtslow
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 1,538
    I love these **** low level player whines. I didn't have **** subs when I was in the mid 20's to rape salvages to do researches/build ships/upgrades. They act like since they don't use a CC everything should be handed to them. In their eyes they should just start the game at level 30 with 85% of everything done for them. Just unreal.....
  • bees
    bees
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,999
    gtslow wrote: »
    I love these **** low level player whines. I didn't have **** subs when I was in the mid 20's to rape salvages to do researches/build ships/upgrades. They act like since they don't use a CC everything should be handed to them. In their eyes they should just start the game at level 30 with 85% of everything done for them. Just unreal.....

    I am lvl 32 i CC but i don't see why predators shouldn't be able to get instant repair. I think i know why you don't want them to be able to, because you are a big noob so you whine about low level players kick your but! ANd then you Cry w
  • D.A.V.E. Destroyer
    D.A.V.E. Destroyer
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 244
    The Predator Submarines currently have a base armor value of 80. This means that if Predators are not equipped with any additional armor and have small flagship, they can instant repair. After several months of seeing how the Predator is being used in combat, we feel that they should not be able to instant repair.

    We will be buffing the base armor value of Predator Submarines to ensure that no fleet combination of “4 Predators + a small flagship” will allow for an instant repair time.

    can we still do the 5m speed ups?
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  • BladeII
    BladeII
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 403
    i dissagree on the sub changes, subs are the only way a lv 26 can defnd even a bit against lv 30 and lv31 SW fleets, with some good piloting they can maybe take out 1 SW, so they need to be able to instant repair to fend off the big bullies
  • Daniel Humphrey
    Daniel Humphrey
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 47
    BladeII wrote: »
    i dissagree on the sub changes, subs are the only way a lv 26 can defnd even a bit against lv 30 and lv31 SW fleets, with some good piloting they can maybe take out 1 SW, so they need to be able to instant repair to fend off the big bullies

    Not to mention the only way to fight off the cheats glitch repairing their HH's and SW's over and over. I guess we can either choose to cheat too, take our beating or find something else to do. I for one am now an ex Battle Pirate.
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  • OldGrumpyKillerKoala
    OldGrumpyKillerKoala
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2011 Posts: 252
    Personally do not use the sinkers( sorry submarines). There is a definate skill in the use of the submarine - instant repair anything with no armour should be child's play to sink- you learn quickly or you die.
    Yes I lost a lvl 39 base hitting fleet to a lvl 10 ninja sub attack- only once - a quick change to fleet defences prevented repeat action.
    So a minor change to a ship means change of tatics.
    Do not change in a changing environment - you die.
    PLEASE ENSURE ANY CHANGES ARE NOTIFIED TO ALL BEFORE AND FOR A WEEK AFTER THE COMMENCEMENT SO PLAYERS HAVE CHANCE TO ADAPT
    Thanks
  • Dark Lord Chuckles
    Dark Lord Chuckles
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 3,227
    Now how about making the sub repair times more reasonable?
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  • John Lawlor
    John Lawlor
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 283
    Great idea, now the victory will go back to who has invested more time (and/or money) into the game, and who has better fleets/ fleet setup, NOT to who ever is using subs.
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  • Roland Bullock
    Roland Bullock
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 931
    Sprouts wrote: »
    This change could also have no effect on anything.

    1. You don't take damage in salvages if you know what you're doing. So, no repair.

    2. You only need to repair a sub for one (1) hit point to put it back out on the water.

    This is why I've said all along that its not subs that need to be nerfed. Its the Havoks that need to be. Why should a small sub be able to carry a weapon with the range and hit power of Havok3's and 4's? Increase the weight of Havoks so that only the larger subs can carry the larger Havoks. Is simple and promotes a natural progession of things. Also little guys will still be able to take out 8-9s but at a much slower rate with the weaker weapons.
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  • jwing0001
    jwing0001
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 126
    I really advice they if you could also improve the stalker...It seems useless atm
  • Mitchell Miller
    Mitchell Miller
    Greenhorn
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 8
    i personally am against this as for lower lvls this is the only way to defend atk or gain salvos i dont use them since sfb but alot of smaller ppl do they dont abuse in fact they use them to hit salvos only a small number use them for attck and since sfb that has almost stopped i can park my ships with cuts and sfb and lt and if they fire the subs are dead easy fix
  • sputtle
    sputtle
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 141
    BOOOO!!! lol I guess I dont' really care. It was nice while it lasted but I'm getting tired of the subs anyway.

    It was just nice for low levels to bring something to a fleet battle that could scare off an SW, slightly. Only in the sense that the SW could never hope to cause enough repair time or damage to discourage the lower level from continuing to battle him.
  • WeThePeople
    WeThePeople
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 1,505
    I made it to 7 pages of this crap and gave up. People crying change subs dont change subs, Its same crap all the time, People were crying when Relocate was down then cry when it was fixed. Then people cry over HB3 then cry when they lowered the range, Now people cry about booster 3s and so on.

    More a crying game then a fighting game, Dont start on buddy bubbles lol
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  • Meat-Locker
    Meat-Locker
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 4
    Thank god. With insta subs gone what will the no talent noobs have to look forward too?? Getting their base mowed!!!!!
  • rummrunner24
    rummrunner24
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 67
    Our intention is not to declaw defenses, rather to balance the game appropriately. The intention of instant repair is to help new players get into the game faster, not endlessly be able to assault level 10 salvage ships. Again with DP, only a small percentage were using it as intended.

    However, we have also buffed defense by giving turret specials and the upcoming patrol fleet. It's all a delicate balancing act.

    I use subs without armor. I use SW with booster as well. It actually costs me less res to repair a ****3 SW than a no-armor/eng2 predator sub. Add low level armor to subs, you'll be okay and it won't be instant repair -- if you're good with subs you probably take no damage while salvaging.

    As for buffing defense by giving turret specials.... yeah we can get the best turret specials to help fight off the FF/HH/hackers/high rolling coiners... WITH A LEVEL 10 ADVANCED LAB. How is this balancing the game or helping the lower level players?

    As for patrol fleets... the DU4 FF can now take out a level 25 base's patrol fleet... it won't have HB2/Booster2... and maybe it will even be a BB patrol fleet with one levi. Can I send my predator sub prep fleet to take it out? :confused:

    It still all sounds suspiciously like you want to get rid of the non-coiners.

    --> Remove the 5 level attack range. Make it so that you can only attack 2-3 levels below you (which is still a big difference between 26 and 29 as a level 26 probably won't have DU4 turrets while a level 29 will most likely have the DU4 baser).
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  • usmcja
    usmcja
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 243
    making the subs not able to insta repair is fine but something needs to be done about the larger subs 5 hour each repair time when equipped with du 4. thats twice as long as a ff whos idea was that!
  • Peter Watson
    Peter Watson
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 206

    We will be buffing the base armor value of Predator Submarines to ensure that no fleet combination of “4 Predators + a small flagship” will allow for an instant repair time.

    Think it's time for the Banhammer to swing on Swag because there is no combination of 4 Predators + ANY flagship that allows for an instant fleet repair other than a hack or glitch abuse.

    Each INDIVUDUAL Predator can be insta-repaired, just as any of the small ships can be but not the whole fleet from dead. Therefore this comment is spurious at best and disigenous at worst.

    For those of us without Officers other than Dredd, repair time is already greater than instant, you would be a fool to use your one officer on ship repair, there is far more gain on using it for research or upgrades.

    I support a slight increase in sub repair time, as I support any change in the game that reduces abuse of features that go against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rules of the game.

    I trust we shall also see the abuse of hiding under player and Drak bases such that your fleet is un-taggable dealt with in a similar fashion.

    I hope also that it will put an end to that most sickening of spectacles, the high level player whining that a low level player took "his" salvage.
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  • Sultan714
    Sultan714
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 187
    The Predator Submarines currently have a base armor value of 80. This means that if Predators are not equipped with any additional armor and have small flagship, they can instant repair. After several months of seeing how the Predator is being used in combat, we feel that they should not be able to instant repair.

    We will be buffing the base armor value of Predator Submarines to ensure that no fleet combination of “4 Predators + a small flagship” will allow for an instant repair time.

    Nice. About time. Even better, have subs be able to only attack other sub fleets. Course, that would make way too much sense :P
  • Munchy
    Munchy
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2011 Posts: 800
    Think it's time for the Banhammer to swing on Swag because there is no combination of 4 Predators + ANY flagship that allows for an instant fleet repair other than a hack or glitch abuse.

    Each INDIVUDUAL Predator can be insta-repaired, just as any of the small ships can be but not the whole fleet from dead. Therefore this comment is spurious at best and disigenous at worst.

    For those of us without Officers other than Dredd, repair time is already greater than instant, you would be a fool to use your one officer on ship repair, there is far more gain on using it for research or upgrades.

    New players don't even get the one free officer anymore. At least I didn't and I started playing a little under a month ago. So in order to even instant repair individual subs a player has to recruit at least one person as an officer now.
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  • Paranorm
    Paranorm
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 183
    Think it's time for the Banhammer to swing on Swag because there is no combination of 4 Predators + ANY flagship that allows for an instant fleet repair other than a hack or glitch abuse.

    Each INDIVUDUAL Predator can be insta-repaired, just as any of the small ships can be but not the whole fleet from dead. Therefore this comment is spurious at best and disigenous at worst.

    You are correct. Each sub can currently be insta-repped. 4 insta-repped subs = 1 insta-repped fleet. Not a spurious or disingenuous comment at all.
    For those of us without Officers other than Dredd, repair time is already greater than instant, you would be a fool to use your one officer on ship repair, there is far more gain on using it for research or upgrades.

    I don't think this nerf is targeted at people with only 1 officer
    I support a slight increase in sub repair time, as I support any change in the game that reduces abuse of features that go against the spirit, if not the letter, of the rules of the game.

    I trust we shall also see the abuse of hiding under player and Drak bases such that your fleet is un-taggable dealt with in a similar fashion.

    I hope also that it will put an end to that most sickening of spectacles, the high level player whining that a low level player took "his" salvage.
  • AdmiralJohnson
    AdmiralJohnson
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 62
    Dang i really liked insta rerpair for hitting salvs
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  • Gorgonzillah
    Gorgonzillah
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 64
    ...and really, all you big coiners are mad for the reason that the sub fleet actually REPAIRS IN LESS TIME THAN IT TAKES TO HAVE A BATTLE !!

    Really?

    You should all be screaming at CM Swag because your expensive SFB-3 Cappuccino machines take 20x longer to repair than you actually play with them.

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    OOOOOOOOH now you can all DOMINATE the pesky lower level players!!
    Sheesh!
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  • Ollie99
    Ollie99
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 1,175
    Not suprised, sucks but I'm not suprised. The fast repair of subs is what makes all the dead fleets from glitching bareable. Anything going to be done about the glitching then. Probably not. I kill subs all the the time with subs, with sw with bbs what's the big deal. So some base guards get taken out, so what, build a better base and keep your fleets in the dock when your not on line. Fleet battles, you don't want to have to kill the same players subs over and over again... hit recall fleet and go home. Only reason I use them anymore is for salvage. Since I don't care to lose a good fleet to glitches if I don't have to. I doubt I'd have kept playing this game to reach level 30 if it hadn't been for subs.
    It's just too bad for the new players who have started to find this game fun since they discovered they actually have a chance to at least wound the high level players fleets that like to think they own this game or the sector they are in. It's just a shame that instead of sucking it up and dealing with the sub threat some chose to complain it away and KIXEYE bends under the pressure. Tired of lower levels being able to kill their lvl 9 salvages a guess.
    I do really like the new feature that will allow you to view other battles going on, and the one to get ride of the friend bubbling. Oh... sorry was that off topic.
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  • Paranorm
    Paranorm
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 183
    Ollie99 wrote: »
    Not suprised, sucks but I'm not suprised. The fast repair of subs is what makes all the dead fleets from glitching bareable. Anything going to be done about the glitching then. Probably not. I kill subs all the the time with subs, with sw with bbs what's the big deal. So some base guards get taken out, so what, build a better base and keep your fleets in the dock when your not on line. Fleet battles, you don't want to have to kill the same players subs over and over again... hit recall fleet and go home. Only reason I use them anymore is for salvage. Since I don't care to lose a good fleet to glitches if I don't have to. I doubt I'd have kept playing this game to reach level 30 if it hadn't been for subs.
    It's just too bad for the new players who have started to find this game fun since they discovered they actually have a chance to at least wound the high level players fleets that like to think they own this game or the sector they are in. It's just a shame that instead of sucking it up and dealing with the sub threat some chose to complain it away and KIXEYE bends under the pressure. Tired of lower levels being able to kill their lvl 9 salvages a guess.
    I do really like the new feature that will allow you to view other battles going on, and the one to get ride of the friend bubbling. Oh... sorry was that off topic.


    This nerf has nothing to do with lower-level players having a shot at bruising higher-level ones. The subs are going to continue doing the same damage and traveling at the same speed with the same range. What this nerf is about is spamming sub fleets over and over and over and over and over at a higher-level player's boats to grief them. Nerfing repair times isn't going to affect their effectiveness in combat, only their effectiveness at being so annoying all you can do is leave. A skilled sub pilot can take level 8's and 9's with NO DAMAGE. How does repair time keep them from doing that?
  • Ollie99
    Ollie99
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 1,175
    Sure it does Max some just need multiple sub fleet to give them a big enough bruise and you can only take 8s and 9s with no damage if the game doesn't glitch all the time. That is what I love about the fast fix subs doesn't matter if Swag drops his jelly donut in KIXEYE's server and it explodes I can just fix and come back to whatever salvo I was hitting after the glitching stops. And what is the difference in griefing (as you put it) a high level player with multiple fast repair sub fleets and a high level player griefing a low level player with dreadnaughts... while he's mining or in a fleet battle. We all compete with the tools available to us. How convient it must be to take away the other guys tools. Make no mistake like it or not fast repair is a tool and a tactic like guerilla warfare. You don't like subs use SFB3 or, and sonar. Use what ya got don't cry about what the other guy has. Guy walked into my base the other day with seige mortar dreads. Didn't hear me crying about it, just part of the game. Now the guy next door to me cried a little when that same fleet was cc'd back to full health and leveled him 5 mins later but oh well coiners are just part of the game an unfair part from some points of view(not KIXEYE accounting department's point of view) but still part of the game like fast repair on subs... or was anyway.

    Let the little guys have something geeeez......
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  • telemarks
    telemarks
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 637
    I 110% agree, a repair time around 7mins for Preds, would be a GREAT idea. Still make them useful, but not immortal like they are currently.

    How about Increasing the Pred Armour to 200 .. But REDUCE THE REPAIR TIME to double for all Subs.

    Putting armour on subs would then make more sense, at the detriment of repair times and bring Stalkers back into play at a stroke ... Suddenly they would be balenced ...

    If Kixeye were to buff the turn speed of the Stalker at the same time .. that would be perfect!
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  • Ollie99
    Ollie99
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 1,175
    Sultan714 wrote: »
    Nice. About time. Even better, have subs be able to only attack other sub fleets. Course, that would make way too much sense :P

    Oh well hell yeah why didn't I think of that... and while we're at it lets just have HHs only attack HHs and longship only attack longships and levis only attack levis.... oh oh wait even better lets have bases only attack other bases but your right that would make way too much sense.
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  • bees
    bees
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 1,999
    Sultan714 wrote: »
    Nice. About time. Even better, have subs be able to only attack other sub fleets. Course, that would make way too much sense :P

    ..and FFs only attack FFs, SWs only attack SWs, HHs only attack HHs and so on. Yeah that would make more sense!
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