Predator Submarine Armor Adjustment

  • r80354
    r80354
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 116
    Our intention is not to declaw defenses, rather to balance the game appropriately. The intention of instant repair is to help new players get into the game faster, not endlessly be able to assault level 10 salvage ships. Again with DP, only a small percentage were using it as intended.

    However, we have also buffed defense by giving turret specials and the upcoming patrol fleet. It's all a delicate balancing act.



    All the changes posted recently will have far reaching and negative effects on the low-to-mid level players. A level 22 (as an example) saving for op5 isnt able to take 30 million from another base, nor are they going to be able to successfully defend against the +5 margin for being attacked. It is expected that they will be pounded while saving for op5 and beyond, but removing the bubble to allow griefing (yes, people will torment other players... destroying researches and rocketing stuff just because, just read the DP thread if you missed it) and taking away the sub's instant repair does nothing but handicap the same players those features are meant to help. Im not saying things have not been abused, but there MUST be a better way to go about stopping that abuse without making it easier for higher level players to farm and abuse lower level ones.

    edit: I figured i might as well toss an idea for stopping the sub abuse while not handicapping players.

    *Raise the cost of repairing subs. The damage output compared to the repair cost is way off. If players had to spend more on fixing the subs (a substantial amount) this would make people be more careful with their sub fleets and not use them as throwaways.
  • Hyperius
    Hyperius
    Moderator
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 12,121
    Lower levels level up way faster than the higher levels got the chance 2 some 20-25 r getting tier 3 items when they havent even finished tier 1 and taking the salvage from the higher level people that can get it in one trip with a ff fleet then 20 with a bunch of marauders and lazer targetting doesnt hit them while there in the water it has 2 target when subs r above then can hit if they resubmerge

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  • Burke
    Burke
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 1,005
    Our intention is not to declaw defenses, rather to balance the game appropriately. The intention of instant repair is to help new players get into the game faster, not endlessly be able to assault level 10 salvage ships. Again with DP, only a small percentage were using it as intended.

    However, we have also buffed defense by giving turret specials and the upcoming patrol fleet. It's all a delicate balancing act.

    Well, please don't get rid of the 5 minute speed up entirely. It takes some of the sting out of the "loss of control" glitches and "Shockwave Flash crashed" situations. It has happened to me 3 times in the past two days.
  • Fatality
    Fatality
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 48
    this is a good idea.. subs are high powered small ship they should not instantly repaired, atleast 5-10min each.. and i hate to use subs also they are like kids toy lol..
    :spurtz:"I won't allow my comrades to die":spurtz:

    Pirate Name:Fatality
    Level:31
    Current Sector: 281
    Alliance:Liber8ors
  • Hawk
    Hawk
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 105
    Glad the subs will take longer to repair Hate them :D now watch for the whiners :crying:
  • Hellspawn
    Hellspawn
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 988
    antman wrote: »
    Lol im not talkingbase fleets. But if the abity was removed to attack other players fleets there wouldnt be a problem.

    Like I said earlier if it is to be changed this way the money I spent on subs was completely worthless. I would have no problem at all if I didnt coin them.

    What would u do if u bought a dvd playing tv and they said they changed thier mind and wanted to remove thedvd player?

    I only coined on the junk because of the instant repair.

    You seriously wasted coin buying Predator subs? They take what, 2 days to build? And you're gonna make a stink about that? And as for your TV analogy, if the TV said "Beta" on the logo, I would probably assume that it wasn't going to be the way it was when I bought it forever, and wouldn't have spent too much on it. But that's just me.
  • UNiCTHiNG
    UNiCTHiNG
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 158
    Hehe... I've never used the predators. S/W's Lead the way.
    Want a tissue?
  • Hast at work
    Hast at work
    Master Tactician
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 2,308
    I don't understand the sense of entitlement newer players have.

    So you can't get an ez ride to 30+? Boo Hoo.

    You are playing at a time where in most sectors, high level players litterally leave the map littered with free resources that you pick up instantly. Try having to mine for your resources, sending wave after wave of BBs after level 8 mines just so you could leave it there to randomly get jumped by drac respawn. Res gens were a legitimate and important source of steady resource generation, not chaffe for bubble %.

    Salvages? opening a level 6 was a task better left to high level players! i remember scouring the map for level 4's and 5's to battle while now you guys just pop out a sub fleet and faceroll some level 8's and 9's open for no cost (and blueprints!).

    Everyone in here is talking like if they are taking subs away and crying like crazy about it, where in fact they are getting a buff. If you are good with subs and use them with skill you are CELEBRATING this change, maybe now your subs wont get sunk automatically from a small mistake. The only ones crying are the ones that ABUSED subs by using them as throwaway high damage/low cost no repair time garbage fleets to grief and lean on instead of getting skills. I think now you will see people refitting subs with armor and using them like they are suposed to, with care and skill. I look forward to THOSE battles, not the ones that happen now where your fleets get charged by an endless stream of garbage subs.
    Base Name: Praetor [Locust]
    Current Level: 63 Current Sector: Pansyland
    Raid Hulls: All of them, yes, all of them.
    Oh and we didn't do it for money.
  • robertg
    robertg
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 564
    same old story.
    higher levels complain and kixeye follows. i do agree that instant repair is wrong for subs, its just too easy.
    but the higher levels want farms that fight back just a little for fun and then lay on their back.
    dont tell me that when you were low level you got beaten every day bla bla bla.
    in those days you could make a base that would hold off most attackers, nowadays thats not possible anymore.
    there are so much changes going on right now that noone can tell us where we stand with bp.
    my worry is the speed they throw new things at us. when under 30 there is no catching up anymore, the gap is getting wider.
    low levels are harder to find (might be the sektors i move in) that is something kixeye should monitor

    i sincerely hope that the balance will be back and that future changes will be more thought out.
  • Alisha
    Alisha
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 26
    Again this game is for the people who began 1 year ago, i prefer stop playing and not spend more money, because all is for the higher level, is hard for the low and mid level to have res, and will be hard to keep them, so is not point all this new stuff....
    A real pirate player. Proudly winner the Strike Cruiser
  • Hast at work
    Hast at work
    Master Tactician
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 2,308
    Alisha wrote: »
    Again this game is for the people who began 1 year ago, i prefer stop playing and not spend more money, because all is for the higher level, is hard for the low and mid level to have res, and will be hard to keep them, so is not point all this new stuff....

    Change your sig. It's a lie.

    It was too easy for a little while and too many people got used to it. This is the game trying to go where it was supposed to be. You don't like it, fine, i can respect that. But at least give it a try. If it is hard and you get better and become powerful ANYWAY, its MUCH more satisfying than if you can faceroll your way to everything and then sit at lvl 34 going "so now what"??
    Base Name: Praetor [Locust]
    Current Level: 63 Current Sector: Pansyland
    Raid Hulls: All of them, yes, all of them.
    Oh and we didn't do it for money.
  • No..Beard
    No..Beard
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2010 Posts: 3,792
    robertg wrote: »
    same old story.
    higher levels complain and kixeye follows. i do agree that instant repair is wrong for subs, its just too easy.
    but the higher levels want farms that fight back just a little for fun and then lay on their back.
    dont tell me that when you were low level you got beaten every day bla bla bla.
    in those days you could make a base that would hold off most attackers, nowadays thats not possible anymore.
    there are so much changes going on right now that noone can tell us where we stand with bp.
    my worry is the speed they throw new things at us. when under 30 there is no catching up anymore, the gap is getting wider.
    low levels are harder to find (might be the sektors i move in) that is something kixeye should monitor

    i sincerely hope that the balance will be back and that future changes will be more thought out.
    Yeah, whatever you do, Kixeye, please do not listen to the crowd with most experience? What could THEY possibly understand about the game?

    BP ID: 1038         WC ID: 1476        VC ID: 18589     Tome ID: 3698   

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  • Hellspawn
    Hellspawn
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 988
    Fractal wrote: »
    I have decent success taking level 8's and even managing a couple 9's now with subs. But it certainly isn't an easy deal. One mistake, bad timing, over confidence, bad night, and the whole fleet is toast. Sure we can take the big salvages, but only with a good amount of practice. That same practice teaches us the skills we can use later with the bigger ships.

    Besides, the more resources us little guys can fill our warehouses with, the more there will be for you bigger ones to farm. :)

    I don't want anyone to get me wrong, if you can use your subs and take a salvage fleet in one shot, then you have the skill to do so. What I don't agree with is the people who lack the skill to do so, but repeatedly send the same instant repair sub fleet out time after time and take the higher level salvage fleets that higher level players need. Let's face it, there's two reasons:
    1. What does a lower level player need with the tier 3 blueprints they will be getting from level 8-9 salvs? I understand the desire to get them early, but I want them, dammit! (I know, it's a personal beef, not a game breaking problem.)
    2. The higher level salvs are the only ones that are even useful to higher level players. After low level payers go out and take all the 8's and 9's, and all I can find are 6's and down, it isn't worth it to me to go out and hit 9 lvl 6 salvs to fill up my fleet, when I could hit 2 lvl 8's or 1 lvl 9. Economically, it's just not viable.

    But I think the main gripe about the subs and their instant repair is just about players abusing that to constantly send them after higher level players fleets to cause 10+ hours damage vs an instant repair. And all the talk in the world won't make that a fair trade. Yes, subs are easy enough to sink with the right boat, but when you are being assaulted by an unending surge of instantly repaired subs, you WILL eventually lose. And they will have lost next to nothing.

    Sorry for the wall-o-text.
  • Dread Pyrate Turtle
    Dread Pyrate Turtle
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 1,534
    I never saw the problem with these. They are easy to beat & it costs the noobs a lot to repair them. Not that I'm gonna worry about it though either way.
    [QUOTE]"I'm a hacker!" - Will Harbin[/QUOTE]
    [QUOTE]"He was once a legit player like you, until he took a cheat tool to the knee." - Xandamere[/QUOTE]
  • Madmumbler98
    Madmumbler98
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 16
    Love the idea i have 4 subs myself have 22min repair for each one its unfair tht i have a 22 min repair and they have instant so i hope this goes into effect
  • Hast at work
    Hast at work
    Master Tactician
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 2,308
    Hellspawn wrote: »
    I don't want anyone to get me wrong, if you can use your subs and take a salvage fleet in one shot, then you have the skill to do so. What I don't agree with is the people who lack the skill to do so, but repeatedly send the same instant repair sub fleet out time after time and take the higher level salvage fleets that higher level players need. Let's face it, there's two reasons:
    1. What does a lower level player need with the tier 3 blueprints they will be getting from level 8-9 salvs? I understand the desire to get them early, but I want them, dammit! (I know, it's a personal beef, not a game breaking problem.)
    2. The higher level salvs are the only ones that are even useful to higher level players. After low level payers go out and take all the 8's and 9's, and all I can find are 6's and down, it isn't worth it to me to go out and hit 9 lvl 6 salvs to fill up my fleet, when I could hit 2 lvl 8's or 1 lvl 9. Economically, it's just not viable.

    But I think the main gripe about the subs and their instant repair is just about players abusing that to constantly send them after higher level players fleets to cause 10+ hours damage vs an instant repair. And all the talk in the world won't make that a fair trade. Yes, subs are easy enough to sink with the right boat, but when you are being assaulted by an unending surge of instantly repaired subs, you WILL eventually lose. And they will have lost next to nothing.

    Sorry for the wall-o-text.

    EZ to read wall of text with reasoned observations = no problemo dude!

    most importantly to note is the "skill" issue. I've said it a million times and here is a million and 1, if you use subs skillfully, this is a buff. If you use subs in a way that exploits an inbalance in the game, get the kleenex box out, this free bar is closed.

    From reading some of the pro-sub posts you would think that a non-armored sub is going to take 30 mins to repair or something! It's not the end of the world boys and girls! I would imagine they will be adding enough base armor so that a zero armor sub might take what? 2 minutes to repair before instant? so you will have to wait 10 minutes now to get your fleet going again....wow...yeah i know, scary. lol. 10 minutes is nothing if you are salving with 2 fleets of sub in your dock (which is what? a few days of build time...pft), however, if you decided that designing a good base or researching beter ships was for suckers because you can just launch your 2 fleets of subs in an endless stream of kamikazee attacks against attackers, well, tough bananas for you brother.
    Base Name: Praetor [Locust]
    Current Level: 63 Current Sector: Pansyland
    Raid Hulls: All of them, yes, all of them.
    Oh and we didn't do it for money.
  • Munchy
    Munchy
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2011 Posts: 800
    Love the idea i have 4 subs myself have 22min repair for each one its unfair tht i have a 22 min repair and they have instant so i hope this goes into effect


    22 minutes apiece? That just means you put armor on them which is not a wise thing to do. Take it off and you will be fine.
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  • Brendan T
    Brendan T
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 250
    The Predator Submarines currently have a base armor value of 80. This means that if Predators are not equipped with any additional armor and have small flagship, they can instant repair. After several months of seeing how the Predator is being used in combat, we feel that they should not be able to instant repair.

    We will be buffing the base armor value of Predator Submarines to ensure that no fleet combination of “4 Predators + a small flagship” will allow for an instant repair time.

    its nice to hear you are changing that so thoes darn subs cant instant repair and go back out to kill us, but what about players without sw's who try to salvage like me?
  • Hast at work
    Hast at work
    Master Tactician
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 2,308
    Munchy wrote: »
    22 minutes apiece? That just means you put armor on them which is not a wise thing to do. Take it off and you will be fine.

    Yeah, see, thinking like that needs to go away. Like i said before, the skillful players will probably now refit their subs with armor. The derpy players will cry and have to learn how to play. If there is no instant anyway, more armor will make more sense...your little subs might survive an assault missile hit and live to submerge and try again, on the flip side, the surface ship player will no longer be able to dismiss subs but at the same time, feel that once a sub fleet is sunk they have accomplished SOMETHING other than earn themselves a disproportionate amount of repairs.
    Base Name: Praetor [Locust]
    Current Level: 63 Current Sector: Pansyland
    Raid Hulls: All of them, yes, all of them.
    Oh and we didn't do it for money.
  • SeaRanger
    SeaRanger
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 12
    Higher Levels are the only ones crying about subs... Subs with insta repair actually help the lower level guys to make a difference in the game even if it is a small difference... if the subs are not modified to be much stronger then this is a very bad move...
  • H4YDEN
    H4YDEN
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2011 Posts: 1,219
    SeaRanger wrote: »
    Higher Levels are the only ones crying about subs... Subs with insta repair actually help the lower level guys to make a difference in the game even if it is a small difference... if the subs are not modified to be much stronger then this is a very bad move...

    They'll still have them to use they just won't be able to repair them immediately
    H4YDEN
    Sectors Visited 11, 14, 61, 95, 96, 102, 103, 105, 112, 125, 128 138, 139, 144, 151, 181, 190, 191, 192, 222, 223, 232, 240, 307, 310, 314, 367, 379, 381, 394, 437, 445, 467, 476
    Started playing 21st October 2011
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    You don't need drac hulls to be good at this game, you need a brain 
  • Hast at work
    Hast at work
    Master Tactician
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 2,308
    SeaRanger wrote: »
    Higher Levels are the only ones crying about subs... Subs with insta repair actually help the lower level guys to make a difference in the game even if it is a small difference... if the subs are not modified to be much stronger then this is a very bad move...

    Do you have trouble reading? They ARE being made stronger! they are being given more armor!!! congratulations!!! explain why this is a problem? K pls thx
    Base Name: Praetor [Locust]
    Current Level: 63 Current Sector: Pansyland
    Raid Hulls: All of them, yes, all of them.
    Oh and we didn't do it for money.
  • donaldo
    donaldo
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 379
    have to agree with you on that one lol whats up with you lack of understanding in this game kixeye you make all the wrong moves when it

    comes to logic. lol common even keeping the subs is a value to you? why dont you understand thats the only way small er players can fight back.

    listen i didnt have any subs lol just got 2 of each now lol actually planning on scraping them, but what you guys are going to do is make it so that the little players are not going to have a foot to stand on lol i can go through subs just fine lol im thinking its people that are in kixeye that play the game that cannot appose certain tactics thats getting in the way of logic. also the benefit to kixeye is that subs is the only thing that can do damage to the upper lvls why not allow that for the lower players? whats your problem. are you trying to booster the smaller players know lol i garantee if the players are not upper end they will not spend. think about it.
    jayem8ch wrote: »
    How about we fix instant repair glitch before we go worrying about instant fix subs!
  • donaldo
    donaldo
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 379
    have to agree with you on that one lol whats up with you lack of understanding in this game KIXEYE you make all the wrong moves when it

    comes to logic. lol common even keeping the subs is a value to you? why dont you understand thats the only way small er players can fight back.

    listen i didnt have any subs lol just got 2 of each now lol actually planning on scraping them, but what you guys are going to do is make it so that the little players are not going to have a foot to stand on lol i can go through subs just fine lol im thinking its people that are in KIXEYE that play the game that cannot appose certain tactics thats getting in the way of logic. also the benefit to KIXEYE is that subs is the only thing that can do damage to the upper lvls why not allow that for the lower players? whats your problem. are you trying to booster the smaller players know lol i garantee if the players are not upper end they will not spend. think about it.
    The Predator Submarines currently have a base armor value of 80. This means that if Predators are not equipped with any additional armor and have small flagship, they can instant repair. After several months of seeing how the Predator is being used in combat, we feel that they should not be able to instant repair.

    We will be buffing the base armor value of Predator Submarines to ensure that no fleet combination of “4 Predators + a small flagship” will allow for an instant repair time.
  • Gary White
    Gary White
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 268
    Great idea, it would stop the constant barrage of subs. I think an armor-less sub should take around 2-3 mins per each, it would be low enough to not stop the use of them, but high enough to stop the constant barrage of them. This is an easy change to make as well so another plus.

    Edit: 2-3mins each with the 5min speed up, so 7-8 mins total.
    Battle Pirates name: Ranki
    Winner of: Dreadnought, Sea Scorpion, Barracuda, Goliath, Strike Cruiser, Destroyer, Battlecruiser, Hammerhead-A and Interdictor.
  • tishbombish
    tishbombish
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 556
    Cant see why people are crying about this .. if your getting hit salvaging using subs , then your doing it wrong .. simple as that .. i have some but they only get used for salvaging if my wolves are under repair,
  • Bill Thomas
    Bill Thomas
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 453
    Gary White wrote: »
    Great idea, it would stop the constant barrage of subs. I think an armor-less sub should take around 2-3 mins per each, it would be low enough to not stop the use of them, but high enough to stop the constant barrage of them. This is an easy change to make as well so another plus.

    Edit: 2-3mins each with the 5min speed up, so 7-8 mins total.

    Not sure if that is good enough, all they have to do is split them up, they need to take 5-6 min each

    I would love for subs to go away I am so sick of being hit with those things
    Boomo
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  • Cyanide Sandwich
    Cyanide Sandwich
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 1,163
    May the whining of these sub users start

    i dont even use my subs anymore, since i started building sea wolves
    Battle Pirates
    In-game name: Cyanide Sandwich              
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  • Sector
    Sector
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 1,321
    subs will still be used for salvaging, nothing will be changed. unless you suck and die everytime you still should be able to get through with 0 damage. subs will now be like sws, use em, but if you die take the repair time...
  • antman
    antman
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 1,293
    Im getting sooo sick and tired of hearing theses highlevel salvs are mine, try mining for your resources.

    Ffs all these new addition ie: higher level salvs and so on are for everyone. Game advance and the owners needs to make itpossible for a new player to make the leaderboards. If this isnt possible new cc players will not come.

    Games are deliberately released with half or less the intended functions and items just so those few that start early dont get such a huge headstart.

    Just because u been here a year doesnt entitle u or give u ownership on anything here. You already have your advantages with the extra research u have done.

    After thinking this debate over a little more really kixeye has given us a better chance to defend our bases from higher levels with the base fleet option.

    BUT I DO FIRMLY BELIEVE THE XP REQUIREMENTS PER LEVEL FROM 25 needs a makeover soon. The differnce between level 25-30 is more than that of level 1-25. This huge difference is part fuel for people needing to use the insta repair fleets.

    Maybe kixeye could even edit some sectors for the babies. Sectors without subs for the cry babies. Sectorz for low levdls where 25 and up cant relocate. Even sectors that cant have drac items or hull prizes. We have enough sectors that one or 2 of each wont make much diff at all.
This discussion has been closed.