Improvements to Burnside, Skipjack, Galen, and Max

MX36
MX36
Unicorn Overlord
Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,191

Give Burnside his dual-flamethrower back
I honestly doubt that that would make a difference, but it's still a core feature and one of the things that sets him apart from standard Chaplains. every banner\video\gif shows him holding 2X flamethrowers even the description says so!!
For a close-combat unit, he needs a huge health buff. sure he benefits from damage reduction at lower HP levels, but the base HP value is too low to sustain him that long.

Inferno Aura: this is a cool feature actually, but in reality it's a lag generator and its only use is to clear LSDs, which are not a real threat. 
How to improve? since he has to move very close to the target to burn it with the aura, which means suicide most of the time, the damage should be similar to a BFG firepool. or at least it should be affected by his tech (Combustion Training) to make it worth the sacrifice. 

Burnside is a crazy character, so go crazy with his stats and effects!

Skipjack
I gave her another chance this week and used her several times with all heroic tech.. Man, what a waste of medals!
She takes too much time to achieve anything even with a full 100% warlust! ok she was good once or twice vs air units, but other that that, she dies very fast without a chance to "clear" the way to her Breacher students. lol
As a Breacher, she should be super effective vs crowds, especially Phalanx spawn, but in reality she performs poorly vs them.

How to improve?  
Since she uses a shotgun, the range increase is off the table. so other improvement suggestions could be:
1-Buff her damage vs infantry.
2-Increase movement & attack speed as she takes damage. a concept similar to the Vanquisher's Accelerator Armor tech.
3-A built-in Adaptive Armor or a gun shield similar to Weaver's, but for a shorter period, so she can rush the target and fire at least one or two volleys before dying.
4-How about: as long as she's deployed in battle, the warlust meter gains +25% (or any other percentage), as she's a hero & a leader that boosts overall morale.

Skipjack
& Burnside are the only units that don't have its own image in the workshop. it shows the standard version of a Breacher and a Chaplain instead!


Galen
The unit itself is fine, but the heroic tech lacks creativity. and the only tech that worth buying is the bronze (300K). the other two are not that important and could be replaced with the standard version (except the Leadership Training that you've removed :expressionless: )
Heroic tech should have extra perks like GEN-1 heroes, even if it's 1% just to make it different from the standard version.

MAX
He's nerfed! I've posted this on Discord but it was ignored (as always)
At full health, he used to bark at enemy targets. the attack is ranged and used to show visible soundwave animation, but now he only bites at zero range without barking! 
Here's what it used to look like before:

P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • Denis_R987
    Denis_R987
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 247
    edited 15 Sep 2018, 4:37AM
    Well, improving the Normal unit will Improve the Heroic unit too.

    In Burnside's Case...if Chaplains were to get more HP Burnside would follow.
    While, i think they could have made chaplains have a little more Range, while Burnside's Buff could have been giving them more Range (making them stay in the back while Burnside could have been a meat shield for his Chaplains).
    • On the other hand...Burnside's inferno aura sucks badly...it does nothing.
    • He doesn't use his 2nd flamethrower then why even give that to him (Mega tank were made where they fired from 1 barrel then when they got ELITE version they finally used their 2nd Barrel).
    • Pretty sure his suicide damage on death is also trash (like that would do anything when he cant even reach inside the base...Even if he does somehow the player/rogue's base will just straight LAUGH at him).

    Well, Polly is nice and you think she doesn't need a buff...i still think she needs a serious damage boost. She can't kill a Firemen or any unit by herself. By the time she kills a Firemen she is already half dead....that's funny.

    Yea, Skipjack as a Hero HAS problems working as a hero unit. Your examples aren't bad, but I would like to see Skipjack buffing her Breachers too (feel like Breachers should have had more Speed then they have now).
    --While her buff for her breachers could have been something like this:
    • 10% less damage taken
    • Trigger Happy (they will work as they should have...they rush in take the shot right away before waiting and half of them dying for no reason).

    Galen isn't bad, but yea their Heroic tech has gotten Worse since the Gen 1 ERA heroic units.

    I overall tough that Gen 2 Token lvls should have had the Heroic units having x2 HP and x2 damage. Its like if they weren't ready to have those stats then dont release their tokens then.

    The Worst Heroes to Date are Skipjack and Burnside as it stands ATM.
  • nametagg0
    nametagg0
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jan 2016 Posts: 3,693
    edited 15 Sep 2018, 4:20AM
    MX36 said:

    Give Burnside his dual-flamethrower back
    I honestly doubt that that would make a difference, but it's still a core feature and one of the things that sets him apart from standard Chaplains. every banner\video\gif shows him holding 2X flamethrowers even the description says so!!
    For a close-combat unit, he needs a huge health buff. sure he benefits from damage reduction at lower HP levels, but the base HP value is too low to sustain him that long.

    Inferno Aura: this is a cool feature actually, but in reality it's a lag generator and its only use is to clear LSDs, which are not a real threat. 
    How to improve? since he has to move very close to the target to burn it with the aura, which means suicide most of the time, the damage should be similar to a BFG firepool. or at least it should be affected by his tech (Combustion Training) to make it worth the sacrifice. 

    Burnside is a crazy character, so go crazy with his stats and effects!

    Skipjack
    I gave her another chance this week and used her several times with all heroic tech.. Man, what a waste of medals!
    She takes too much time to achieve anything even with a full 100% warlust! ok she was good once or twice vs air units, but other that that, she dies very fast without a chance to "clear" the way to her Breacher students. lol
    As a Breacher, she should be super effective vs crowds, especially Phalanx spawn, but in reality she performs poorly vs them.

    How to improve?  
    Since she uses a shotgun, the range increase is off the table. so other improvement suggestions could be:
    1-Buff her damage vs infantry.
    2-Increase movement & attack speed as she takes damage. a concept similar to the Vanquisher's Accelerator Armor tech.
    3-A built-in Adaptive Armor or a gun shield similar to Weaver's, but for a shorter period, so she can rush the target and fire at least one or two volleys before dying.
    4-How about: as long as she's deployed in battle, the warlust meter gains +25% (or any other percentage), as she's a hero & a leader that boosts overall morale.

    Skipjack
    & Burnside are the only units that don't have its own image in the workshop. it shows the standard version of a Breacher and a Chaplain instead!


    Galen
    The unit itself is fine, but the heroic tech lacks creativity. and the only tech that worth buying is the bronze (300K). the other two are not that important and could be replaced with the standard version (except the Leadership Training that you've removed :expressionless: )
    Heroic tech should have extra perks like GEN-1 heroes, even if it's 1% just to make it different from the standard version.

    MAX
    He's nerfed! I've posted this on Discord but it was ignored (as always)
    At full health, he used to bark at enemy targets. the attack is ranged and used to show visible soundwave animation, but now he only bites at zero range without barking! 
    Here's what it used to look like before:

    Burnside:

    I 100% agree he needs a health and damage boost as currently hes about as useful as a normal Chaplin just with lag generation, less heroic and more  just named character like sarkis

    Skipjack:

    I kinda feel like skipjack`s concussion grenade should be replaced with one of sarkis` emp grenades to shock vehicles to help with her goal of being anti phalanx without just being a weaker roland

    this would also help give a reason to use skipjack that other survivor heroes dont really have the means to replicate without outside assistance
    because as it stands both of her elemental effects will be done better by another hero
    concussion being max`s gimmick, and corrosion being just generally better done by kyle and technicals


    i do agree with your point of giving her adaptive armor given her shield doesn't seem to do a whole bunch and giving her a deploy-able shield would just make her and breachers doller store liberators and weaver

    would also be nice is she would increase the damage resistance of other breachers as they die kinda fast and need to be pretty close to their enemy 

     this would also create a 3 way dynamic between the 3 survivor infantry heroes
    weaver for offensive pushes and tanking for libs (specializing in anti air),
     skipjack for making a sheildwall with breachers for other units (specializing in anti-light vehicle),
    and  max for general support for survivor infantry (specializing in anti infantry)

    a lot of changes but it definitely fixed her current scenario of being a failed jack of all trades,was a novel gesture of kix to allow skip to take the place of reasonable any survivor land unit but it was at the cost of her being generally being worse at everything than another unit that was made for that


    (as a point that affects both the 2 above maybe kix knew these units wouldn't be used as much as the alternatives and thought that it wouldn't be too noticed)
    Galen:
    not much to say here other than i agree his tech definitely needed to be something special to warrant using him over the average caretaker and ardre or sunder as they set a pretty high precedent for sentinel heroes
    max:
    definitely seems like something that should be fixed as his bark was pretty handy a few times

    (on a side note its funny that the only faction that doesn't have heroes that needs reworking is corpus, #CorpusISBestFaction)
    Image result for free to play vs pay to win gif

    "the optimist looks up and loses his footing.
      the pessimist looks down and loses the path
      the strategist looks forward and adjusts accordingly" 
  • Sasuke970
    Sasuke970
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Apr 2018 Posts: 1,145
    MX36 said:

    Give Burnside his dual-flamethrower back
    I honestly doubt that that would make a difference, but it's still a core feature and one of the things that sets him apart from standard Chaplains. every banner\video\gif shows him holding 2X flamethrowers even the description says so!!
    For a close-combat unit, he needs a huge health buff. sure he benefits from damage reduction at lower HP levels, but the base HP value is too low to sustain him that long.

    Inferno Aura: this is a cool feature actually, but in reality it's a lag generator and its only use is to clear LSDs, which are not a real threat. 
    How to improve? since he has to move very close to the target to burn it with the aura, which means suicide most of the time, the damage should be similar to a BFG firepool. or at least it should be affected by his tech (Combustion Training) to make it worth the sacrifice. 

    Burnside is a crazy character, so go crazy with his stats and effects!

    Skipjack
    I gave her another chance this week and used her several times with all heroic tech.. Man, what a waste of medals!
    She takes too much time to achieve anything even with a full 100% warlust! ok she was good once or twice vs air units, but other that that, she dies very fast without a chance to "clear" the way to her Breacher students. lol
    As a Breacher, she should be super effective vs crowds, especially Phalanx spawn, but in reality she performs poorly vs them.

    How to improve?  
    Since she uses a shotgun, the range increase is off the table. so other improvement suggestions could be:
    1-Buff her damage vs infantry.
    2-Increase movement & attack speed as she takes damage. a concept similar to the Vanquisher's Accelerator Armor tech.
    3-A built-in Adaptive Armor or a gun shield similar to Weaver's, but for a shorter period, so she can rush the target and fire at least one or two volleys before dying.
    4-How about: as long as she's deployed in battle, the warlust meter gains +25% (or any other percentage), as she's a hero & a leader that boosts overall morale.

    Skipjack
    & Burnside are the only units that don't have its own image in the workshop. it shows the standard version of a Breacher and a Chaplain instead!


    Galen
    The unit itself is fine, but the heroic tech lacks creativity. and the only tech that worth buying is the bronze (300K). the other two are not that important and could be replaced with the standard version (except the Leadership Training that you've removed :expressionless: )
    Heroic tech should have extra perks like GEN-1 heroes, even if it's 1% just to make it different from the standard version.

    MAX
    He's nerfed! I've posted this on Discord but it was ignored (as always)
    At full health, he used to bark at enemy targets. the attack is ranged and used to show visible soundwave animation, but now he only bites at zero range without barking! 
    Here's what it used to look like before:

    Good point.They are getting outclassed by other more viable units.Even by Gen I units.

    IMO to balance this:

    Burnside 

    -What separates him with other Chaplains is he dual wields a flamethrower.He supports a fire aura,which is relatively useless since no unit wants to get to him that close (except zombies).His suicide damage is good,but I think he wouldn't get close to anything since he can be beaten with any high damage units.

    -Do you know what Burnside and his fellow Chaplains lacks of?Afterburn damage.He and his Chaplains should get a damage increase and AFTERBURNS.And you're right.Burnside dual wields a flamethrower,why does he only sprays with only one flamethrower?To conserve fuel?I think not!

    Skipjack

    -She has a shotgun and a shield,like normal Breachers do.But what doesn't make sense is since she is packed with a CQB modified full auto shotgun loaded with a DRUM MAG,why does she shoot it like its a semi auto shotgun?FYI,her shotgun exists in real life.Its name is the Fostech Origin 12,its also the fastest firing shotgun in the world!

    Image of the shotgun IRL.



    And here is a video link demonstrating about the shotgun:



    Back to the topic,she also has a shield.The shield should also provide Skipjack and her Breachers an advanatage!Like reduced damage from all sources while stationary.Skipjack also sports a concussion grenade,which is quite nice.

    Galen


    You are right,the unit is fine,but his heroic tech is not.I think Galen's hero tech should be different from other CTs,maybe a counter attack when an enemy steps within his aura?I don't know what to suggest for him.

    I don't know what to suggest for Max,because I have no experience using Max and I don't own Max yet.

  • Adel Wael
    Adel Wael
    Master Tactician
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 2,152

    @nametagg0 said:
    MX36 said:


    Give Burnside his dual-flamethrower back
    I honestly doubt that that would make a difference, but it's still a core feature and one of the things that sets him apart from standard Chaplains. every banner\video\gif shows him holding 2X flamethrowers even the description says so!!
    For a close-combat unit, he needs a huge health buff. sure he benefits from damage reduction at lower HP levels, but the base HP value is too low to sustain him that long.

    Inferno Aura: this is a cool feature actually, but in reality it's a lag generator and its only use is to clear LSDs, which are not a real threat. 
    How to improve? since he has to move very close to the target to burn it with the aura, which means suicide most of the time, the damage should be similar to a BFG firepool. or at least it should be affected by his tech (Combustion Training) to make it worth the sacrifice. 

    Burnside is a crazy character, so go crazy with his stats and effects!

    Skipjack
    I gave her another chance this week and used her several times with all heroic tech.. Man, what a waste of medals!
    She takes too much time to achieve anything even with a full 100% warlust! ok she was good once or twice vs air units, but other that that, she dies very fast without a chance to "clear" the way to her Breacher students. lol
    As a Breacher, she should be super effective vs crowds, especially Phalanx spawn, but in reality she performs poorly vs them.

    How to improve?  
    Since she uses a shotgun, the range increase is off the table. so other improvement suggestions could be:
    1-Buff her damage vs infantry.
    2-Increase movement & attack speed as she takes damage. a concept similar to the Vanquisher's Accelerator Armor tech.
    3-A built-in Adaptive Armor or a gun shield similar to Weaver's, but for a shorter period, so she can rush the target and fire at least one or two volleys before dying.
    4-How about: as long as she's deployed in battle, the warlust meter gains +25% (or any other percentage), as she's a hero & a leader that boosts overall morale.

    Skipjack & Burnside are the only units that don't have its own image in the workshop. it shows the standard version of a Breacher and a Chaplain instead!
    (Spoiler)

    Galen
    The unit itself is fine, but the heroic tech lacks creativity. and the only tech that worth buying is the bronze (300K). the other two are not that important and could be replaced with the standard version (except the Leadership Training that you've removed :expressionless: )
    Heroic tech should have extra perks like GEN-1 heroes, even if it's 1% just to make it different from the standard version.

    MAX
    He's nerfed! I've posted this on Discord but it was ignored (as always)
    At full health, he used to bark at enemy targets. the attack is ranged and used to show visible soundwave animation, but now he only bites at zero range without barking! 
    Here's what it used to look like before:

    Burnside:

    I 100% agree he needs a health and damage boost as currently hes about as useful as a normal Chaplin just with lag generation, less heroic and more  just named character like sarkis

    Skipjack:

    I kinda feel like skipjacks concussion grenade should be replaced with one of sarkis emp grenades to shock vehicles to help with her goal of being anti phalanx without just being a weaker roland

    this would also help give a reason to use skipjack that other survivor heroes dont really have the means to replicate without outside assistance
    because as it stands both of her elemental effects will be done better by another hero
    concussion being max`s gimmick, and corrosion being just generally better done by kyle and technicals

    i do agree with your point of giving her adaptive armor given her shield doesn't seem to do a whole bunch and giving her a deploy-able shield would just make her and breachers doller store liberators and weaver

    would also be nice is she would increase the damage resistance of other breachers as they die kinda fast and need to be pretty close to their enemy 

     this would also create a 3 way dynamic between the 3 survivor infantry heroes
    weaver for offensive pushes and tanking for libs (specializing in anti air),
     skipjack for making a sheildwall with breachers for other units (specializing in anti-light vehicle),
    and  max for general support for survivor infantry (specializing in anti infantry)

    a lot of changes but it definitely fixed her current scenario of being a failed jack of all trades,was a novel gesture of kix to allow skip to take the place of reasonable any survivor land unit but it was at the cost of her being generally being worse at everything than another unit that was made for that

    (as a point that affects both the 2 above maybe kix knew these units wouldn't be used as much as the alternatives and thought that it wouldn't be too noticed)
    Galen:
    not much to say here other than i agree his tech definitely needed to be something special to warrant using him over the average caretaker and ardre or sunder as they set a pretty high precedent for sentinel heroes
    max:
    definitely seems like something that should be fixed as his bark was pretty handy a few times

    (on a side note its funny that the only faction that doesn't have heroes that needs reworking is corpus, #CorpusISBestFaction)

    Aside from polly corpus has a pretty solid line of heroes

    corpus rules all

  • Sasuke970
    Sasuke970
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Apr 2018 Posts: 1,145
    adel_50 said:

    @nametagg0 said:
    MX36 said:


    Give Burnside his dual-flamethrower back
    I honestly doubt that that would make a difference, but it's still a core feature and one of the things that sets him apart from standard Chaplains. every banner\video\gif shows him holding 2X flamethrowers even the description says so!!
    For a close-combat unit, he needs a huge health buff. sure he benefits from damage reduction at lower HP levels, but the base HP value is too low to sustain him that long.

    Inferno Aura: this is a cool feature actually, but in reality it's a lag generator and its only use is to clear LSDs, which are not a real threat. 
    How to improve? since he has to move very close to the target to burn it with the aura, which means suicide most of the time, the damage should be similar to a BFG firepool. or at least it should be affected by his tech (Combustion Training) to make it worth the sacrifice. 

    Burnside is a crazy character, so go crazy with his stats and effects!

    Skipjack
    I gave her another chance this week and used her several times with all heroic tech.. Man, what a waste of medals!
    She takes too much time to achieve anything even with a full 100% warlust! ok she was good once or twice vs air units, but other that that, she dies very fast without a chance to "clear" the way to her Breacher students. lol
    As a Breacher, she should be super effective vs crowds, especially Phalanx spawn, but in reality she performs poorly vs them.

    How to improve?  
    Since she uses a shotgun, the range increase is off the table. so other improvement suggestions could be:
    1-Buff her damage vs infantry.
    2-Increase movement & attack speed as she takes damage. a concept similar to the Vanquisher's Accelerator Armor tech.
    3-A built-in Adaptive Armor or a gun shield similar to Weaver's, but for a shorter period, so she can rush the target and fire at least one or two volleys before dying.
    4-How about: as long as she's deployed in battle, the warlust meter gains +25% (or any other percentage), as she's a hero & a leader that boosts overall morale.

    Skipjack & Burnside are the only units that don't have its own image in the workshop. it shows the standard version of a Breacher and a Chaplain instead!
    (Spoiler)

    Galen
    The unit itself is fine, but the heroic tech lacks creativity. and the only tech that worth buying is the bronze (300K). the other two are not that important and could be replaced with the standard version (except the Leadership Training that you've removed :expressionless: )
    Heroic tech should have extra perks like GEN-1 heroes, even if it's 1% just to make it different from the standard version.

    MAX
    He's nerfed! I've posted this on Discord but it was ignored (as always)
    At full health, he used to bark at enemy targets. the attack is ranged and used to show visible soundwave animation, but now he only bites at zero range without barking! 
    Here's what it used to look like before:

    Burnside:

    I 100% agree he needs a health and damage boost as currently hes about as useful as a normal Chaplin just with lag generation, less heroic and more  just named character like sarkis

    Skipjack:

    I kinda feel like skipjacks concussion grenade should be replaced with one of sarkis emp grenades to shock vehicles to help with her goal of being anti phalanx without just being a weaker roland

    this would also help give a reason to use skipjack that other survivor heroes dont really have the means to replicate without outside assistance
    because as it stands both of her elemental effects will be done better by another hero
    concussion being max`s gimmick, and corrosion being just generally better done by kyle and technicals

    i do agree with your point of giving her adaptive armor given her shield doesn't seem to do a whole bunch and giving her a deploy-able shield would just make her and breachers doller store liberators and weaver

    would also be nice is she would increase the damage resistance of other breachers as they die kinda fast and need to be pretty close to their enemy 

     this would also create a 3 way dynamic between the 3 survivor infantry heroes
    weaver for offensive pushes and tanking for libs (specializing in anti air),
     skipjack for making a sheildwall with breachers for other units (specializing in anti-light vehicle),
    and  max for general support for survivor infantry (specializing in anti infantry)

    a lot of changes but it definitely fixed her current scenario of being a failed jack of all trades,was a novel gesture of kix to allow skip to take the place of reasonable any survivor land unit but it was at the cost of her being generally being worse at everything than another unit that was made for that

    (as a point that affects both the 2 above maybe kix knew these units wouldn't be used as much as the alternatives and thought that it wouldn't be too noticed)
    Galen:
    not much to say here other than i agree his tech definitely needed to be something special to warrant using him over the average caretaker and ardre or sunder as they set a pretty high precedent for sentinel heroes
    max:
    definitely seems like something that should be fixed as his bark was pretty handy a few times

    (on a side note its funny that the only faction that doesn't have heroes that needs reworking is corpus, #CorpusISBestFaction)

    Aside from polly corpus has a pretty solid line of heroes

    corpus rules all

    Corpus is the tactical faction,of course they have good heroes that give great advantages.
  • Adel Wael
    Adel Wael
    Master Tactician
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 2,152

    @Sasuke970 said:
    adel_50 said:

    @nametagg0 said:

    MX36 said:

    
    

    Give Burnside his dual-flamethrower back

    I honestly doubt that that would make a difference, but it's still a core feature and one of the things that sets him apart from standard Chaplains. every banner\video\gif shows him holding 2X flamethrowers even the description says so!!

    For a close-combat unit, he needs a huge health buff. sure he benefits from damage reduction at lower HP levels, but the base HP value is too low to sustain him that long.

    Inferno Aura: this is a cool feature actually, but in reality it's a lag generator and its only use is to clear LSDs, which are not a real threat. 
    

    How to improve? since he has to move very close to the target to burn it with the aura, which means suicide most of the time, the damage should be similar to a BFG firepool. or at least it should be affected by his tech (Combustion Training) to make it worth the sacrifice. 

    Burnside is a crazy character, so go crazy with his stats and effects!
    
    Skipjack
    

    I gave her another chance this week and used her several times with all heroic tech.. Man, what a waste of medals!

    She takes too much time to achieve anything even with a full 100% warlust! ok she was good once or twice vs air units, but other that that, she dies very fast without a chance to "clear" the way to her Breacher students. lol

    As a Breacher, she should be super effective vs crowds, especially Phalanx spawn, but in reality she performs poorly vs them.

    How to improve?  
    

    Since she uses a shotgun, the range increase is off the table. so other improvement suggestions could be:

    1-Buff her damage vs infantry.

    2-Increase movement & attack speed as she takes damage. a concept similar to the Vanquisher's Accelerator Armor tech.

    3-A built-in Adaptive Armor or a gun shield similar to Weaver's, but for a shorter period, so she can rush the target and fire at least one or two volleys before dying.

    4-How about: as long as she's deployed in battle, the warlust meter gains +25% (or any other percentage), as she's a hero & a leader that boosts overall morale.

    Skipjack & Burnside are the only units that don't have its own image in the workshop. it shows the standard version of a Breacher and a Chaplain instead!
    

    (Spoiler)

    Galen
    

    The unit itself is fine, but the heroic tech lacks creativity. and the only tech that worth buying is the bronze (300K). the other two are not that important and could be replaced with the standard version (except the Leadership Training that you've removed :expressionless: )

    Heroic tech should have extra perks like GEN-1 heroes, even if it's 1% just to make it different from the standard version.

    MAX
    

    He's nerfed! I've posted this on Discord but it was ignored (as always)

    At full health, he used to bark at enemy targets. the attack is ranged and used to show visible soundwave animation, but now he only bites at zero range without barking! 

    Here's what it used to look like before:

    Burnside:
    
    I 100% agree he needs a health and damage boost as currently hes about as useful as a normal Chaplin just with lag generation, less heroic and more  just named character like sarkis
    
    Skipjack:
    
    I kinda feel like skipjacks concussion grenade should be replaced with one of sarkis emp grenades to shock vehicles to help with her goal of being anti phalanx without just being a weaker roland
    
    this would also help give a reason to use skipjack that other survivor heroes dont really have the means to replicate without outside assistance
    

    because as it stands both of her elemental effects will be done better by another hero

    concussion being max`s gimmick, and corrosion being just generally better done by kyle and technicals

    i do agree with your point of giving her adaptive armor given her shield doesn't seem to do a whole bunch and giving her a deploy-able shield would just make her and breachers doller store liberators and weaver
    
    would also be nice is she would increase the damage resistance of other breachers as they die kinda fast and need to be pretty close to their enemy 
    
     this would also create a 3 way dynamic between the 3 survivor infantry heroes
    

    weaver for offensive pushes and tanking for libs (specializing in anti air),

     skipjack for making a sheildwall with breachers for other units (specializing in anti-light vehicle),

    and  max for general support for survivor infantry (specializing in anti infantry)

    a lot of changes but it definitely fixed her current scenario of being a failed jack of all trades,was a novel gesture of kix to allow skip to take the place of reasonable any survivor land unit but it was at the cost of her being generally being worse at everything than another unit that was made for that
    
    (as a point that affects both the 2 above maybe kix knew these units wouldn't be used as much as the alternatives and thought that it wouldn't be too noticed)
    

    Galen:

    not much to say here other than i agree his tech definitely needed to be something special to warrant using him over the average caretaker and ardre or sunder as they set a pretty high precedent for sentinel heroes

    max:

    definitely seems like something that should be fixed as his bark was pretty handy a few times

    (on a side note its funny that the only faction that doesn't have heroes that needs reworking is corpus, #CorpusISBestFaction)

    Aside from polly corpus has a pretty solid line of heroes

    corpus rules all

    Corpus is the tactical faction,of course they have good heroes that give great advantages.

    In war games tactics always win

  • MX36
    MX36
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,191
    Well, improving the Normal unit will Improve the Heroic unit too.

    In Burnside's Case...if Chaplains were to get more HP Burnside would follow.
    While, i think they could have made chaplains have a little more Range, while Burnside's Buff could have been giving them more Range (making them stay in the back while Burnside could have been a meat shield for his Chaplains).
    • On the other hand...Burnside's inferno aura sucks badly...it does nothing.
    • He doesn't use his 2nd flamethrower then why even give that to him (Mega tank were made where they fired from 1 barrel then when they got ELITE version they finally used their 2nd Barrel).
    • Pretty sure his suicide damage on death is also trash (like that would do anything when he cant even reach inside the base...Even if he does somehow the player/rogue's base will just straight LAUGH at him).
    I've always thought that it's ok for Chaplain's range to stay low similar to IRL flamethrowers, but seeing KIX's Firemen outranging a fully workshopped Jericho made me rethink that.

    Your idea about a range buff could work very well. a +75~100 range increase would insure that Burnside (the leader) always stays in front, but the 2X flamethowers, even if it doesn't actually target 2 units at the same time, means that his damage output will be doubled! 
    They added that feature to the description of his Heroic Training, but it never saw the light, unfortunately.


    Well, Polly is nice and you think she doesn't need a buff...i still think she needs a serious damage boost. She can't kill a Firemen or any unit by herself. By the time she kills a Firemen she is already half dead....that's funny.
    I have a completely opposite view regarding Polly. you're right about her damage, which is messed up and shows glitched health bars most of the time, but the bigger problem here is the hero deployment rules.
    IMO, units like Galen, Polly, Neil and Weaver should be classified as support heroes and be allowed to deploy with the rest of damage-dealing heroes. if that was possible, Polly's role will be defined only as a saboteur to infiltrate and scramble enemy units\structures, and leave the damage-dealing part to those who are designed for that role like Sunder, Roland, Santiago, etc.

    Mine is level 1 and I always use her in VK75 cave bases, to fire at those airborne Avalanches at the entrance. all I need is just a few shots to trigger nearby defenders and lure them out to the Drakon-Cerberus trap. and most of the time I say to myself: thank god she has low damage! otherwise she would destroy those platforms and won't be able to lure the units out. This happens in other bases as well, when you need the scrambled target to stay alive just a little bit longer so you can land another Jugg shot and splash-damage everything around it. lol

    Yea, Skipjack as a Hero HAS problems working as a hero unit. Your examples aren't bad, but I would like to see Skipjack buffing her Breachers too (feel like Breachers should have had more Speed then they have now).
    --While her buff for her breachers could have been something like this:
    • 10% less damage taken
    • Trigger Happy (they will work as they should have...they rush in take the shot right away before waiting and half of them dying for no reason).
    It's really weird how she doesn't have any buffs for Breachers (her own group), while Max (a completely different species) has a massive speed buff to them!
    I didn't get what you mean with "Trigger Happy", could you explain how that works in more details?


    P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • Sasuke970
    Sasuke970
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Apr 2018 Posts: 1,145
    MX36 said:
    Well, improving the Normal unit will Improve the Heroic unit too.

    In Burnside's Case...if Chaplains were to get more HP Burnside would follow.
    While, i think they could have made chaplains have a little more Range, while Burnside's Buff could have been giving them more Range (making them stay in the back while Burnside could have been a meat shield for his Chaplains).
    • On the other hand...Burnside's inferno aura sucks badly...it does nothing.
    • He doesn't use his 2nd flamethrower then why even give that to him (Mega tank were made where they fired from 1 barrel then when they got ELITE version they finally used their 2nd Barrel).
    • Pretty sure his suicide damage on death is also trash (like that would do anything when he cant even reach inside the base...Even if he does somehow the player/rogue's base will just straight LAUGH at him).
    I've always thought that it's ok for Chaplain's range to stay low similar to IRL flamethrowers, but seeing KIX's Firemen outranging a fully workshopped Jericho made me rethink that.

    Your idea about a range buff could work very well. a +75~100 range increase would insure that Burnside (the leader) always stays in front, but the 2X flamethowers, even if it doesn't actually target 2 units at the same time, means that his damage output will be doubled! 
    They added that feature to the description of his Heroic Training, but it never saw the light, unfortunately.


    Well, Polly is nice and you think she doesn't need a buff...i still think she needs a serious damage boost. She can't kill a Firemen or any unit by herself. By the time she kills a Firemen she is already half dead....that's funny.
    I have a completely opposite view regarding Polly. you're right about her damage, which is messed up and shows glitched health bars most of the time, but the bigger problem here is the hero deployment rules.
    IMO, units like Galen, Polly, Neil and Weaver should be classified as support heroes and be allowed to deploy with the rest of damage-dealing heroes. if that was possible, Polly's role will be defined only as a saboteur to infiltrate and scramble enemy units\structures, and leave the damage-dealing part to those who are designed for that role like Sunder, Roland, Santiago, etc.

    Mine is level 1 and I always use her in VK75 cave bases, to fire at those airborne Avalanches at the entrance. all I need is just a few shots to trigger nearby defenders and lure them out to the Drakon-Cerberus trap. and most of the time I say to myself: thank god she has low damage! otherwise she would destroy those platforms and won't be able to lure the units out. This happens in other bases as well, when you need the scrambled target to stay alive just a little bit longer so you can land another Jugg shot and splash-damage everything around it. lol

    Yea, Skipjack as a Hero HAS problems working as a hero unit. Your examples aren't bad, but I would like to see Skipjack buffing her Breachers too (feel like Breachers should have had more Speed then they have now).
    --While her buff for her breachers could have been something like this:
    • 10% less damage taken
    • Trigger Happy (they will work as they should have...they rush in take the shot right away before waiting and half of them dying for no reason).
    It's really weird how she doesn't have any buffs for Breachers (her own group), while Max (a completely different species) has a massive speed buff to them!
    I didn't get what you mean with "Trigger Happy", could you explain how that works in more details?


    You also forgot Chaplains lacks an afterburn damage.
  • MX36
    MX36
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,191
    nametagg0 said:
    This would also create a 3 way dynamic between the 3 survivor infantry heroes
    weaver for offensive pushes and tanking for libs (specializing in anti air),
     skipjack for making a sheildwall with breachers for other units (specializing in anti-light vehicle),
    and  max for general support for survivor infantry (specializing in anti infantry)

    a lot of changes but it definitely fixed her current scenario of being a failed jack of all trades,was a novel gesture of kix to allow skip to take the place of reasonable any survivor land unit but it was at the cost of her being generally worse at everything than another unit that was made for that
    Thanks @nametagg0
    I like how you're careful not to step into other heroes territories\roles in each faction.  :) so I have to ask you these two questions:
    1-If you were to assign a very specific role to Skipjack, what would that be? an infantry killer? a super-effective Phalanx counter?
    2-Do you think that Romero with his low platoon size and multi-weapon system (probably tactics too), will replace Skipjack\Max\Weaver as a front-line leader\shield?
    P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • MX36
    MX36
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 3,191
    Sasuke970 said:
    Burnside 
    -What separates him with other Chaplains is he dual wields a flamethrower.He supports a fire aura,which is relatively useless since no unit wants to get to him that close (except zombies).His suicide damage is good,but I think he wouldn't get close to anything since he can be beaten with any high damage units.

    -Do you know what Burnside and his fellow Chaplains lacks of?Afterburn damage.He and his Chaplains should get a damage increase and AFTERBURNS.And you're right.Burnside dual wields a flamethrower,why does he only sprays with only one flamethrower?To conserve fuel?I think not!

    Skipjack
    -She has a shotgun and a shield,like normal Breachers do.But what doesn't make sense is since she is packed with a CQB modified full auto shotgun loaded with a DRUM MAG,why does she shoot it like its a semi auto shotgun?FYI,her shotgun exists in real life.Its name is the Fostech Origin 12,its also the fastest firing shotgun in the world!

    Image of the shotgun IRL.
    And here is a video link demonstrating about the shotgun:

    Back to the topic,she also has a shield.The shield should also provide Skipjack and her Breachers an advantage!Like reduced damage from all sources while stationary. Skipjack also sports a concussion grenade,which is quite nice.
    Yeah, that's the problem. even if his suicide damage is good, there's no guarantee to get him to the target spot alive.. and at this point, I don't think there's anyone willing to waste 10 Blood Thorium to max him and test at that level.
    By Afterburn, you mean a powerful one like the BFG fire pool effect or a normal fire status?

    Regarding Skipjack's grenades, what do you think of their range? They have a slightly longer range than her main shotgun, but not that much compared to Kara & Sheila’s grenades.

    +Thanks for the images & video demo.

    P Sherman, 42 Wallaby Way, Sydney.
  • Denis_R987
    Denis_R987
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 247
    MX36 said:
    Well, improving the Normal unit will Improve the Heroic unit too.

    In Burnside's Case...if Chaplains were to get more HP Burnside would follow.
    While, i think they could have made chaplains have a little more Range, while Burnside's Buff could have been giving them more Range (making them stay in the back while Burnside could have been a meat shield for his Chaplains).
    • On the other hand...Burnside's inferno aura sucks badly...it does nothing.
    • He doesn't use his 2nd flamethrower then why even give that to him (Mega tank were made where they fired from 1 barrel then when they got ELITE version they finally used their 2nd Barrel).
    • Pretty sure his suicide damage on death is also trash (like that would do anything when he cant even reach inside the base...Even if he does somehow the player/rogue's base will just straight LAUGH at him).
    I've always thought that it's ok for Chaplain's range to stay low similar to IRL flamethrowers, but seeing KIX's Firemen outranging a fully workshopped Jericho made me rethink that.

    Your idea about a range buff could work very well. a +75~100 range increase would insure that Burnside (the leader) always stays in front, but the 2X flamethowers, even if it doesn't actually target 2 units at the same time, means that his damage output will be doubled! 
    They added that feature to the description of his Heroic Training, but it never saw the light, unfortunately.


    Well, Polly is nice and you think she doesn't need a buff...i still think she needs a serious damage boost. She can't kill a Firemen or any unit by herself. By the time she kills a Firemen she is already half dead....that's funny.
    I have a completely opposite view regarding Polly. you're right about her damage, which is messed up and shows glitched health bars most of the time, but the bigger problem here is the hero deployment rules.
    IMO, units like Galen, Polly, Neil and Weaver should be classified as support heroes and be allowed to deploy with the rest of damage-dealing heroes. if that was possible, Polly's role will be defined only as a saboteur to infiltrate and scramble enemy units\structures, and leave the damage-dealing part to those who are designed for that role like Sunder, Roland, Santiago, etc.

    Mine is level 1 and I always use her in VK75 cave bases, to fire at those airborne Avalanches at the entrance. all I need is just a few shots to trigger nearby defenders and lure them out to the Drakon-Cerberus trap. and most of the time I say to myself: thank god she has low damage! otherwise she would destroy those platforms and won't be able to lure the units out. This happens in other bases as well, when you need the scrambled target to stay alive just a little bit longer so you can land another Jugg shot and splash-damage everything around it. lol

    Yea, Skipjack as a Hero HAS problems working as a hero unit. Your examples aren't bad, but I would like to see Skipjack buffing her Breachers too (feel like Breachers should have had more Speed then they have now).
    --While her buff for her breachers could have been something like this:
    • 10% less damage taken
    • Trigger Happy (they will work as they should have...they rush in take the shot right away before waiting and half of them dying for no reason).
    It's really weird how she doesn't have any buffs for Breachers (her own group), while Max (a completely different species) has a massive speed buff to them!
    I didn't get what you mean with "Trigger Happy", could you explain how that works in more details?


    Trigger Happy as in the Breacher will fire straight away when they get into range of their target. As they are now...they get to their target and stand looking at them for no reason for 2 seconds then Pull the trigger.

    Also, funny how kixeye are using the fast Shotgun as their model but its slow as shiet in the game.
  • nametagg0
    nametagg0
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jan 2016 Posts: 3,693
    edited 22 Sep 2018, 3:20PM
    MX36 said:
    nametagg0 said:
    This would also create a 3 way dynamic between the 3 survivor infantry heroes
    weaver for offensive pushes and tanking for libs (specializing in anti air),
     skipjack for making a sheildwall with breachers for other units (specializing in anti-light vehicle),
    and  max for general support for survivor infantry (specializing in anti infantry)

    a lot of changes but it definitely fixed her current scenario of being a failed jack of all trades,was a novel gesture of kix to allow skip to take the place of reasonable any survivor land unit but it was at the cost of her being generally worse at everything than another unit that was made for that
    Thanks @nametagg0
    I like how you're careful not to step into other heroes territories\roles in each faction.  :) so I have to ask you these two questions:
    1-If you were to assign a very specific role to Skipjack, what would that be? an infantry killer? a super-effective Phalanx counter?
    2-Do you think that Romero with his low platoon size and multi-weapon system (probably tactics too), will replace Skipjack\Max\Weaver as a front-line leader\shield?
    thank you : )

    1-if i were to give skipjack a more specific role than she has now without changing her too much shed be similar to roland in what she does overall but the means of getting there are different enough that she can also be used in other scenarios and not just exclusively that one 

    overall shed be an anti-light vehicle unit/support unit (though i suppose the argument can be made that it ended up being good enough for certain heavy vehicles aswell)

    =she would keep the carrosion and splash, and air targeting she has as the customization breacher tech forces her to have it

    -+ shed loose her concussion grenade but gain an emp grenade
    this takes her focus off of war dog territory of being anti-infantry in favor of a vehicle specific counter, giving war dogs a place in her platoon

    +she would gain adaptive armor 
    this makes 2 important differences between her and other survivor heroes

    1 it makes a parallel where roland is more defensive and better at base defence where skipjack is more offensive and better used in an attack

    2 it makes a skipjack shield different from a weaver shield, weaver`s flat 90% reduction makes him great for tanking sustain damage while adaptive armor make skipjack better at burst damage
     (as burst can potentially 1 shot weaver if its the first thing that damages him while adaptive armor gives vary slim protection from sustain attacks)


    + her final passive would  be gaining an aura that buffs the damage resistances of breachers near her by 30%, bringing their resistance up to either 50% from all sources or 65% from sustain and 40% from other sources assuming they have maxed diamond tech and sheilds.  making it much more difficult for flame techs and phalanx to walk up and wipe out the squad.
       +this also gives an incentive for skipjack to be used with other breachers 


    just to give her more staying power than she does now against phalanx and technicals, this also lets players keep her in the action longer rather than using her to hit and run away like kyle

    for the workshop,

    + her bronze would give a grand total of -35% damage taken from sustain and -25% from all other non-plasma sources
    +her silver would reduce the damage done by fire weapons by 33%  (this reduces flame techs to doing 75% damage assuming they have 0% survivors buff and stacked with her bronze tech)
    +and her gold tech get the added bonus of reducing the time before firing her first shot




    - to create a draw to these buffs id restrict skipjack`s shotguns from receiving a range bonus against airborne targets
    making her overall ineffective against most aircraft, further cementing that skipjack is better used in an attack, while also giving weaver and kyle an edge over skipjack in the anti-air department, while skipjacks grenade still helps her be viable against floating turrets.

    this also allows her to utilize her corrosion effect to buff the attacks of anti air units she is in a platoon with


    shes most effective against light vehicles in this build but she is also capable of being used as the survivors version of polly in a way for turrets and heavy vehicles

    2- im on the fence about Romero,
     on one hand he seems to have decent stats and a wide application range,

     but on the other hand i cant help but remember how bad both of the survivors other unique units were before they got re-balanced,
    not to mention the descritpions of "infantry" and "unique" technically make romero a paradox

    id want to see how well he does against things like an over-watch, avelanche, and railguns, both with and without fusion turrets to really determine if he would potentially replace the infantry heroes in their roles
    Image result for free to play vs pay to win gif

    "the optimist looks up and loses his footing.
      the pessimist looks down and loses the path
      the strategist looks forward and adjusts accordingly" 
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