PVP Balance Fixes

  • Mark Lenard
    Mark Lenard
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 252
    hitman said:
    Apart from the Scorpian campaign i thought ths was quite a good update. Damage went down in the 117's and base hitting is back
    base running since attackers wont engage fleets
  • michael.west.750
    michael.west.750
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,598
    Base fleets should be part of the 100% hit. 
    .
  • Joe_B222
    Joe_B222
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 1,211
    edited 25 Jun 2018, 3:43AM
    turrets do no damage to attacking fleets at all, the deflection armor is too powerful. Turrets are a weapon not eye candy. I tested many bases after the update my fails  were players driving online. My base has been destroyed 3x as a defense fleet without turrets can not defend a base.    I DO NOT SEE BOUNTY AS AN OPTION NOW, I HAVE COINED REFITS TO DEFENDER HULLS. BUT KIXEYE REALLY SCREWED UP PVP    
    Once they fix over damage, it will help a little. 

    Over damage is not currently working per rampage reports.    As for your next comment about the armors..

    you could put a billion deflection on the hulls, and they will still die to a correct guard fleet.  JUST like they were getting killed when they first came out.   Death by 1000 cuts.


    Edit: 

    your base design is horrid.  I know the base you were trying to copy, and you failed at it. 

  • john joseph svelnys
    john joseph svelnys
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 505
    not true the days of 1000 cuts were before super deflection armors at 360 pass threw the number of zeros can not be killed and over damage makes ship even more powerful
  • john joseph svelnys
    john joseph svelnys
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 505
    and using FvF to defend a base is ridiculous as if hit offline you lose, a base must have value. this was not the right fix.
  • john joseph svelnys
    john joseph svelnys
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Nov 2015 Posts: 505
    Spack said:
    Congratulations on addressing an issue you were informed of over 2 months ago. Now as someone who was involved in player driven testing of the turret damage it is quite easy for me to see the reduction in damage that will be caused with this change. However where as before an executioner turret built for maximum damage with 8 T7 turrets in the group would put out damage as follows.

    374766/2*1.35*1.31*1.25*1.5*1.15^5*1.25^8/2 = 3724567.36 damage to the hull after 50% turret defence. A difficult number to balance and rightly needing to be reduced.

    However what you've proposed is making the T7 bonus additive instead of multiplicative thereby changing those damage numbers to 

    374766/2*1.35*1.31*1.25*1.5*1.15^5*3/2 = 1874636.13 damage applied to a hull after turret defence.

    What this means is you are in effect negating missile turrets against missile cruisers even before additional armour has been equipped. The same can be said of ballistic turrets against the impact cruiser without me needing to bore you with the math. All one needs when designing an attacking fleet is add armour to counter the opposite faction to either of these hulls and one need never worry about a turret when attacking a base ever again.

    I urge you to please consider that adopting this step without implementing change in the armours you've since released will only result in a massive swing in the opposite direction making turret designs irrelevant to base defence. I think you've done untold damage to the pvp community without further aggravating the situation. 

    If you wish to any further advice on how to do so please feel free to contact me.

    I should also add i look forwards to being able to participate in the aspects of the game I enjoy in 20 days time. Until then I feel it's only right to curtail my participation.



    Spack said:
    Congratulations on addressing an issue you were informed of over 2 months ago. Now as someone who was involved in player driven testing of the turret damage it is quite easy for me to see the reduction in damage that will be caused with this change. However where as before an executioner turret built for maximum damage with 8 T7 turrets in the group would put out damage as follows.

    374766/2*1.35*1.31*1.25*1.5*1.15^5*1.25^8/2 = 3724567.36 damage to the hull after 50% turret defence. A difficult number to balance and rightly needing to be reduced.

    However what you've proposed is making the T7 bonus additive instead of multiplicative thereby changing those damage numbers to 

    374766/2*1.35*1.31*1.25*1.5*1.15^5*3/2 = 1874636.13 damage applied to a hull after turret defence.

    What this means is you are in effect negating missile turrets against missile cruisers even before additional armour has been equipped. The same can be said of ballistic turrets against the impact cruiser without me needing to bore you with the math. All one needs when designing an attacking fleet is add armour to counter the opposite faction to either of these hulls and one need never worry about a turret when attacking a base ever again.

    I urge you to please consider that adopting this step without implementing change in the armours you've since released will only result in a massive swing in the opposite direction making turret designs irrelevant to base defence. I think you've done untold damage to the pvp community without further aggravating the situation. 

    If you wish to any further advice on how to do so please feel free to contact me.

    I should also add i look forwards to being able to participate in the aspects of the game I enjoy in 20 days time. Until then I feel it's only right to curtail my participation.



    this was the warning of conditions today
  • Milo-Ant
    Milo-Ant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 1,172
    Base fleets should be part of the 100% hit. 
    be very ,very, very careful what you ask for

    I can only assume you do not hit bases or do BOUNTY or this idea would never have been voiced
  • michael.west.750
    michael.west.750
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,598
    I am not a base hitter, although since the start of bounty I have hit bases on the week of raid for alli pts. I don't care about 100%-ing bases. Get the op and move on to the next base. Get alli pts done and go back to other chores. I also do bounty but I only hit the "your opponent" targets as I only have one onslaught to work with. I got 74mil in the last bounty.

    If you don't like the idea of the base fleet as part of the 100%, then the base fleet should at least count towards the bubble. It is part of the base defense and therefore should count for something.
    .
  • harry.linderman
    harry.linderman
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 86
    Congratulations to kixeye for making bases cakewalks where the whales can do many bases at once before they need to repair. you give attack hulls insane speeds, firepower and defensive ability. but you make defense hulls immobile so the attackers can just run past them negating the defensive fleet. you also allow them to 100% a base without destroying the defense fleet. a base whose power level is far below the power of the attacking fleet. and without the massive deflection and defenses that the latest hulls have. you put toy turrets in fm with no range to speak of. and specials you can add to buildings that will have no effect. to sum it up you made everything easy for attacker's and made base defense impossible because as long as the whales can ignore the defense fleet they will always have the advantage. perfect example haymaker drones benefit the attacker what did you do to help base defense? i hope that many will do as i do. continue to play but don't spend a dollar on game or do bounty. not going to make it easy for the whales to buy the latest and greatest in bounty's.
  • Joe_B222
    Joe_B222
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 1,211
    Congratulations to kixeye for making bases cakewalks where the whales can do many bases at once before they need to repair. you give attack hulls insane speeds, firepower and defensive ability. but you make defense hulls immobile so the attackers can just run past them negating the defensive fleet. you also allow them to 100% a base without destroying the defense fleet. a base whose power level is far below the power of the attacking fleet. and without the massive deflection and defenses that the latest hulls have. you put toy turrets in fm with no range to speak of. and specials you can add to buildings that will have no effect. to sum it up you made everything easy for attacker's and made base defense impossible because as long as the whales can ignore the defense fleet they will always have the advantage. perfect example haymaker drones benefit the attacker what did you do to help base defense? i hope that many will do as i do. continue to play but don't spend a dollar on game or do bounty. not going to make it easy for the whales to buy the latest and greatest in bounty's.
    This is a pefect example of a high level, who has ZERO clue what he is doing in base defense...

    nearly everything you said there is wrong..

  • Spider Retired
    Spider Retired
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2013 Posts: 319
    Joe_B222 said:
    Joe_B222 said:
    Evil_Hawk said:
    Joe_B222 said:
    Evil_Hawk said:
    SnickerBP said:
    So all in all here is my 2 cents..
       We all enjoyed unbeatable bases for a while... I liked it.. but its over..  I got hit for the first time successfully in a month.. Ego checks are over, people can now smash whole sectors again for cheap...   BUT the other byproduct of this is YOU TOO can do that to them with probably very little changed in your present PVP fleet.     So go for and pillage.. steal the RUM.. drink it.. drive badly still win...     and think longingly of the days where your base was not worth hitting because you had 8 pen turrets that kix 2 months later decided they made TOO powerful...    Nothing surprising there..


    Joe_B222 said:first time in maybe 5 mths that my base has been 100%ed.  

    Padre Prince used a fleet that I thought I countered for with armor.    he had to coin his fleet to do it, but he got me.  

    As expected the turrets did jack and crap to his fleet.  It is back to having the correct guard to kill the attacker.     A smart attacker can pick a guard apart.  SO ya its going to be rough.

    In case you haven't noticed NOTHING have changed yet except some cheating bases can't cheat anymore. I'm just saying...
    you misssed a lot of things if you think nothing has changed.

    PvP turrets are no longer multiplicative. ( its in the patch notes )  maybe you should read them..

    OR go out and hit a base and see how they do not do anything now.  ( which was expected )


    We have a saying in my country "take a big food bite, don't be a big mouth". you are right I was just been hit, 100%, considering that Kix said that those changes will happen with 8.26 update they screwed things as usual. Wish for once to trust them but ...
    Rampage reports told us he they heard the concerns about the patch going in days before bounty.. so they pushed it up. 

    Which is honestly a good thing.   Gives us at least 2 weeks to change some things to hopefully keep people out again.

    as i see it the whales are going to get disappointed when no bounty targets other then low paying fake bases since with nerf medium amd low level coiners will not even try since base defense is gone they would lose half of what they have to whales so why bother it would be best that everyone dont participate in the next one deny whales points

    base defense is not going..

    Someone who was depending on OP turrets to defend their base is gone.   I got hit daily from SDS7 when I was in alpha, Padre Prince was the only one who got in.    We jumped to the 300 world, a couple people tried and failed.     Then I dumped 250 medals and they haven't hit me for 2 days now.

    Base defense is not dead,  Lazy base defense is. 
    Talked like a true Kix, total BS. Keep trolling to say nothing changed and nothing was unexpected it what you do. And ya, keep saying it work's like it did before the 100% , but it do not matter at all we all can see its not even close to how it was when those counters was interdused to game.
    The 70% accuracy on them is not getting the retrofit values or the propper reload from ship rank, specials and retro lvl.

    So just say it as it should be and feel just fine. I dont realy care. i just know the 110 $ used so far this month will not be followed by any more. And the 185 $ last month will also not be repeated.

    So i do realy hope many more cut the Kix connection.
    Spider OUT ! LvL 130
  • michael.west.750
    michael.west.750
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,598
    It'd be nice if they would just admit that they're making these changes just to make the whales happy for bounty. We all know the attackers coin their repairs and if they're not happy the bounty is a coin flop for kix. So two bounty's in a row, kix has made "fixes" right before bounty started/starts. We all know that is no accident. So just own up to it.
    .
  • Joe_B222
    Joe_B222
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 1,211
    It'd be nice if they would just admit that they're making these changes just to make the whales happy for bounty. We all know the attackers coin their repairs and if they're not happy the bounty is a coin flop for kix. So two bounty's in a row, kix has made "fixes" right before bounty started/starts. We all know that is no accident. So just own up to it.
    so lets start somewhere else..

    Do you believe that a base should be uncrackable..  NOTHING in the game can get in.. Cause that is how we were with all the ballistic turrets + a correct set up..

    DO you think that is right?

  • michael.west.750
    michael.west.750
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,598
    Not at all but let's ask it this way, do you think attackers should just be able to walk every base out there? As soon as attackers can't get in a base they start crying it's not fair and they're not going to coin anymore.

    The t7 turrets with five fire support 2's, was way over the top and did need adjusting. Allowing fleets to 100% a base with not more than a scratch to the attacking fleet, is not acceptable either. I'm not talking about my base either. I take a lot of pride in my base defense and spend most of my gaming time working on my base. It's a never ending work in progress. Fleets can beat my base but will cost them a lot of coin for their effort.

    Kix just needs to find a middle ground and stop going to either end of the spectrum all the time.
    .
  • Spider Retired
    Spider Retired
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2013 Posts: 319
    Joe_B222 said:
    Congratulations to kixeye for making bases cakewalks where the whales can do many bases at once before they need to repair. you give attack hulls insane speeds, firepower and defensive ability. but you make defense hulls immobile so the attackers can just run past them negating the defensive fleet. you also allow them to 100% a base without destroying the defense fleet. a base whose power level is far below the power of the attacking fleet. and without the massive deflection and defenses that the latest hulls have. you put toy turrets in fm with no range to speak of. and specials you can add to buildings that will have no effect. to sum it up you made everything easy for attacker's and made base defense impossible because as long as the whales can ignore the defense fleet they will always have the advantage. perfect example haymaker drones benefit the attacker what did you do to help base defense? i hope that many will do as i do. continue to play but don't spend a dollar on game or do bounty. not going to make it easy for the whales to buy the latest and greatest in bounty's.
    This is a pefect example of a high level, who has ZERO clue what he is doing in base defense...

    nearly everything you said there is wrong..

    Well i like Harry's reply he has a good point about fleets not beeing counted in as base defence and can be left fully alive but still get 100%

    Think its just 2 bounty's away that there also was fleets in the targets and you didnt finish them until also fleet was taken out. But i guess someone dint like that so they took it away also.

    I agreed with Harry 100%, and im def. not even close to where your at Joe. Btw. what are you smoking, it must be something real good. Since its alright!
    Spider OUT ! LvL 130
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