Why sprints don't shoot at some missles in raid?

2
  • Templar614
    Templar614
    Moderator
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 12,876
    SIF said:
    As far as I know it is intended.

    You want both types of countermeasures.

    Sprints to counter the Fire Archer Turret (Hyena). This is for the rocket like turret that lights up an area with several fire fields.

    Phalanx to counter the Shell Launcher Turret (Wendigo). This is for the turret that fires the single radioactive tracking missile.




    Why do our prints lie to us?
    It is more that the targets aren't behaving the way we expect them to.
  • Templar614
    Templar614
    Moderator
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 12,876
    Ruube1 said:
    As far as I know it is intended.

    You want both types of countermeasures.

    Sprints to counter the Fire Archer Turret (Hyena). This is for the rocket like turret that lights up an area with several fire fields.

    Phalanx to counter the Shell Launcher Turret (Wendigo). This is for the turret that fires the single radioactive tracking missile.
    Thanks for merging my Thread with this, now it is totally getting buried here. Well, could you please comment on my videos, which clearly show there is something broken.

    1. If you are telling us that the turret that shoots fire fields is a ROCKET turret, WHY is Zelos Duality countermeasure shooting them down?!?
    2. If you are telling us that the Single missile turret is a MISSILE turret, WHY is NOT Zelos Duality countermeasure shooting that downs?!?

    We can clearly see that there is something broken! Are you guys just going to keep quiet and not comment on this at all? This is a MAJOR problem, because this will tell us, the players, that this company does not give a flying fck if the blueprints/ships are working as they should be.
    Two threads discussing the same thing tend to be merged.

    I have no idea why some countermeasures work against one projectile, but not the other.

    It was passed up before this thread even started, and I don't have a better answer for you at the moment.

    We know that certain weapons are totally ignored by countermeasures. Executioners and Coldsnaps being prime examples of institutionally based. In PvP neither of these turrets are counter-able. In PvE targets it changes from target to target. I have a feeling a similar thing is going on with the current Legion targets, except instead of being immune to all countermeasures they are immune to specific ones. At the moment this is just a theory. It would also be the first time that it has happened.
  • Templar614
    Templar614
    Moderator
    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 12,876
    SIF said:
    SIF said:
    As far as I know it is intended.

    You want both types of countermeasures.

    Sprints to counter the Fire Archer Turret (Hyena). This is for the rocket like turret that lights up an area with several fire fields.

    Phalanx to counter the Shell Launcher Turret (Wendigo). This is for the turret that fires the single radioactive tracking missile.




    Why do our prints lie to us?
    It is more that the targets aren't behaving the way we expect them to.
    And by "the way we expect them to" you mean "the way the game says they should"? Because if Sprints won't fire at it, it not a Missile, Rocket, or UAV. And if it's not a Missile or UAV, Phalanx shouldn't fire at it. Violating the in game text/rules is pretty much the definition of broken. I just want to make sure we don't get to "these targets are different" and accept it. There's enough broken in the game, we don't need to pile on more.

    Those broken Coldsnaps in the TLCs that are the counter to Icebreakers with Tridents or now Sprints to force the "2 fleet solution" of having more range were just accepted, and they shouldn't have been.

    We shouldn't have been forced to accept 187% Accuracy missiles missing 90% of the time either.

    Cannoneers being able to out run and dodge projectiles that hit Ironclads and full Bloodthirst Ironclads being able to sit under fire that kills Cannoneers was acceptable. Why? Because it was right there in the game on the print.

    The current newest "2 fleet solution" force is an ugly, dirty, lazy, talent-less hack. I want to be as critical as I can be on this. After the fact statements of "oh, X targets jam not-X's weapons" demonstrates an absolute absence of creativity, game design, or programming skill. They've run out of tricks.

    Templar, this isn't directed at you for the most part, but for any of the designers that might actually reach this thread. A blueprint not doing what it reads it does is a bug.
    I agree, it is something that needs to be addressed. I have asked for clarification on it but haven't heard back yet.

    Coldsnaps are originally not supposed to be countered by countermeasures. They were changed in newer targets so we could actually counter them, so that isn't really a good comparison for this. So if you find a Coldsnap you can't counter, that is the original design of the turret.

    Same thing with Executioners. They were originally not countered by CMs. PvE versions were changed at one point or another to allow players to have an option to counter them.

    As you mentioned the weapon jams, I think the counters are intended as well. Instead of being fully immune to countermeasures, they are just immune to select countermeasures, which is kind of need to know information and needs to be shared.

    At this point in time we are playing a 6 year old flash game that has regular releases still. There is a lot to the game, and there are plenty of rules and exceptions to those rules and it is very difficult to keep track of some of these things.
  • Charlie Pugwash
    Charlie Pugwash
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 2,553
    SIF said:
    SIF said:
    As far as I know it is intended.

    You want both types of countermeasures.

    Sprints to counter the Fire Archer Turret (Hyena). This is for the rocket like turret that lights up an area with several fire fields.

    Phalanx to counter the Shell Launcher Turret (Wendigo). This is for the turret that fires the single radioactive tracking missile.




    Why do our prints lie to us?
    It is more that the targets aren't behaving the way we expect them to.
    And by "the way we expect them to" you mean "the way the game says they should"? Because if Sprints won't fire at it, it not a Missile, Rocket, or UAV. And if it's not a Missile or UAV, Phalanx shouldn't fire at it. Violating the in game text/rules is pretty much the definition of broken. I just want to make sure we don't get to "these targets are different" and accept it. There's enough broken in the game, we don't need to pile on more.

    Those broken Coldsnaps in the TLCs that are the counter to Icebreakers with Tridents or now Sprints to force the "2 fleet solution" of having more range were just accepted, and they shouldn't have been.

    We shouldn't have been forced to accept 187% Accuracy missiles missing 90% of the time either.

    Cannoneers being able to out run and dodge projectiles that hit Ironclads and full Bloodthirst Ironclads being able to sit under fire that kills Cannoneers was acceptable. Why? Because it was right there in the game on the print.

    The current newest "2 fleet solution" force is an ugly, dirty, lazy, talent-less hack. I want to be as critical as I can be on this. After the fact statements of "oh, X targets jam not-X's weapons" demonstrates an absolute absence of creativity, game design, or programming skill. They've run out of tricks.

    Templar, this isn't directed at you for the most part, but for any of the designers that might actually reach this thread. A blueprint not doing what it reads it does is a bug.
    Yeah. Sprints do not shoot down missiles. If they are supposed to, they are bugged. If they are not supposed to, their blueprint is wrong. Either way, it should be fixed.
    • "Best of luck, Captains! And may the odds be ever in your favour..."


    • Raids Boycotted: Hellstrike, Lightning Carrier, Enforcer, Neptune- and at this rate, the entire upcoming Reaver raid series.

    • First played: Shortly After Revenge Raid 2

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  • S0ULHEX
    S0ULHEX
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2017 Posts: 364
    So my initial plan was to use 2 sprints on all my ships because they do both anti missile and anti rocket of which is needed in these raid targets to shoot down all the fire field salvos. That was my plan until i figured out kixeye made these targets countermeasure bias. The phal will shoot down the big missile but doesnt shoot down the mirv rockets (understandable) and the sprint will shoot down the mirv rockets but not the big missile... (not understandable) Theoretically the sprint should be shooting at BOTH because it is basically the same as the phal except just added anti rocket but this is not the case.

    https://screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cFV2FhoIHd

    I was wondering if this is a intended flaw or unintended flaw in these targets to give us players a loop around on refitting and whatnot. If a mod could check this out it would be great as it doesnt seem right based on what the countermeasures are supposed to do
    My faction is Daedric

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  • DQO07
    DQO07
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 161
    We went over this literally as the sprint was first released. It is weaker against missiles... You cannot tell me you have gone 2 months without hearing anything about this...
  • S0ULHEX
    S0ULHEX
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2017 Posts: 364
    DQO07 said:
    We went over this literally as the sprint was first released. It is weaker against missiles... You cannot tell me you have gone 2 months without hearing anything about this...
    Sure weaker but non existent? Point is they are supposed to be firing at missiles and they are not so...
    My faction is Daedric

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  • DogStar123
    DogStar123
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,493
    But to look at it another way we were never able to counter ANY ballistic or radioactive weapons. So I see such a small plus side to your otherwise valid complaint.
  • S0ULHEX
    S0ULHEX
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2017 Posts: 364
    But to look at it another way we were never able to counter ANY ballistic or radioactive weapons. So I see such a small plus side to your otherwise valid complaint.
    True just kinda hate seeing all the underneath workings but thats expected with kixeye
    My faction is Daedric

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  • Midnight_Rambler
    Midnight_Rambler
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 191
    It is intended. It is another attempt at a money grab as much as the buoys that sap the damage pool from your ship well before you get into firing range, not to mention the turrets firing before you get into range. They set up the targets based on full fleets fully skulled and then nerfed the armor so it is basically worthless. Fun is at least thinking you have a chance to get ahead, not feeling like you are being beaten to the ground while chained to your chair for 4 to 7 days. The harder they try to force me to coin the less likely it is to happen. 
  • DQO07
    DQO07
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 161
    S0ULHEX said:
    DQO07 said:
    We went over this literally as the sprint was first released. It is weaker against missiles... You cannot tell me you have gone 2 months without hearing anything about this...
    Sure weaker but non existent? Point is they are supposed to be firing at missiles and they are not so...
    Weird, my sprints shoot at what they are supposed to, and not at what they aren't supposed to :) Sorry bud, but its just you, and your understanding of what is and isnt able to be hit by it.
  • S0ULHEX
    S0ULHEX
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2017 Posts: 364
    DQO07 said:
    S0ULHEX said:
    DQO07 said:
    We went over this literally as the sprint was first released. It is weaker against missiles... You cannot tell me you have gone 2 months without hearing anything about this...
    Sure weaker but non existent? Point is they are supposed to be firing at missiles and they are not so...
    Weird, my sprints shoot at what they are supposed to, and not at what they aren't supposed to :) Sorry bud, but its just you, and your understanding of what is and isnt able to be hit by it.
    Im wondering if u even watched my video but either way I know what I saw
    My faction is Daedric

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  • DQO07
    DQO07
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 161
    S0ULHEX said:
    DQO07 said:
    S0ULHEX said:
    DQO07 said:
    We went over this literally as the sprint was first released. It is weaker against missiles... You cannot tell me you have gone 2 months without hearing anything about this...
    Sure weaker but non existent? Point is they are supposed to be firing at missiles and they are not so...
    Weird, my sprints shoot at what they are supposed to, and not at what they aren't supposed to :) Sorry bud, but its just you, and your understanding of what is and isnt able to be hit by it.
    Im wondering if u even watched my video but either way I know what I saw
    I know that its not supposed to shoot at what it didnt shoot at :) That is what Phalanx is for xD But hey, will take you about a year to figure that out. So I'll wait. We were told we would need both, and I put both on mine, nothing gets through.
  • S0ULHEX
    S0ULHEX
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2017 Posts: 364
    DQO07 said:
    S0ULHEX said:
    DQO07 said:
    S0ULHEX said:
    DQO07 said:
    We went over this literally as the sprint was first released. It is weaker against missiles... You cannot tell me you have gone 2 months without hearing anything about this...
    Sure weaker but non existent? Point is they are supposed to be firing at missiles and they are not so...
    Weird, my sprints shoot at what they are supposed to, and not at what they aren't supposed to :) Sorry bud, but its just you, and your understanding of what is and isnt able to be hit by it.
    Im wondering if u even watched my video but either way I know what I saw
    I know that its not supposed to shoot at what it didnt shoot at :) That is what Phalanx is for xD But hey, will take you about a year to figure that out. So I'll wait. We were told we would need both, and I put both on mine, nothing gets through.
    Clearly u dont understand the aspect of the sprint also being "ANTI MISSILE" as well. That means its supposed to shoot missiles. So technically speaking all u really need is sprint for the fleet. Sure u went the smart way and put both as thats what i was planning on doing but thats not the point. The point is its not doing as the blueprint is supposed to do. If u cant understand that then thats not my problem. Its the principle that matters.
    My faction is Daedric

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  • Milo-Ant
    Milo-Ant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 1,068
    DQO07 said:
    We went over this literally as the sprint was first released. It is weaker against missiles... You cannot tell me you have gone 2 months without hearing anything about this...

    my sprint doesn't fire at anything in the hydra target.....that is nothing to do with missing 
  • SIF
    SIF
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 1,254
    DQO07 said:
    S0ULHEX said:
    DQO07 said:
    S0ULHEX said:
    DQO07 said:
    We went over this literally as the sprint was first released. It is weaker against missiles... You cannot tell me you have gone 2 months without hearing anything about this...
    Sure weaker but non existent? Point is they are supposed to be firing at missiles and they are not so...
    Weird, my sprints shoot at what they are supposed to, and not at what they aren't supposed to :) Sorry bud, but its just you, and your understanding of what is and isnt able to be hit by it.
    Im wondering if u even watched my video but either way I know what I saw
    I know that its not supposed to shoot at what it didnt shoot at :) That is what Phalanx is for xD But hey, will take you about a year to figure that out. So I'll wait. We were told we would need both, and I put both on mine, nothing gets through.
    Please point us to the post, announcement, or link showing a Kixeye employee or official representative stating that the Sprint countermeasure would not be firing at the Missile projectile fired from the Launcher Turret in the Legion targets. (But it would be firing at the Mortar like projectiles being fired from a Missile looking Turret!)

    Bottom line is Sprint should fire at anything Phalanx will fire at, as long as it has a projectile loaded or reloaded and ready to fire. Sprint overlaps Phalanx's capabilities and extends them in that aspect. Whether it misses or not is a different discussion. 

  • sinista
    sinista
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2011 Posts: 1,748
    ok in case you havent figured it out, the problem lies in the fact that these are siege targets.
    siege targets dont generally have missiles or rockets.
    these things in the raid arent really missiles or rockets they dont do the correct type of damage for that.
    what these are is kixeyes Frankencode, the take code from other stuff modify it and use it in new targets.
    im surprised that any countermeasures work on these targets, we can blame kixs lack of imagination for these reuse scrap code.
    these things were never meant to exist but kix couldnt figure out a new type of weapon that wouldnt be defended against.
    so they add magic harry potter missiles and rockets.
    notice all the bugs in the game? Im pretty sure its just because they copy/paste code and fiddle with the parameters.

    see what shoots at what and your guess is as good as anyones, especially kixeye.
    When it comes to Kixeye, hope for the best but expect the worse.
  • KiwiBandit
    KiwiBandit
    Greenhorn
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 13
    The Qing said:

    I believe this is intended. you'll need both countermeasures to shoot down all incoming projectiles.

    thats the problem with the game, inconsistencies hahaha lazy **** put 10 ship yards, 50 oil well, actaully they put what the fracken hell they want to put and not keep any kind of consistency in the game, we're limited as players by what they give us, they've gone from a skill game to a AWALYS take damage game really, kinda sucks, takes the fun out of the game
  • Isa Meral
    Isa Meral
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 347
    edited 16 Jan 2018, 11:52PM
    how nice. nobody knows why some missile countermeasure weapons are not working on missiles, battle pirates became something like backyard monsters, kixeyes abandonware.
  • Storm_Troopers
    Storm_Troopers
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 370
    In case you still did not know, Sprints are not 100% accuracy.
    Let your community help you, or you will keep sinking your own game.
  • SIF
    SIF
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 1,254
    In case you still did not know, Sprints are not 100% accuracy.
    In case you still did not know, that's irrelevant here and another discussion. We're talking about Sprints not firing at all not about Sprints missing.

  • zijie.chow
    zijie.chow
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 139
    It will be good if this can be confirmed or clarified soon. If it is working as intended like now - that sprints don't fire on the missile -  I will be able to merge all CMs to one ship without worrying about overlapping range. 
  • Charlie Pugwash
    Charlie Pugwash
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 2,553
    It will be good if this can be confirmed or clarified soon. If it is working as intended like now - that sprints don't fire on the missile -  I will be able to merge all CMs to one ship without worrying about overlapping range. 
    Yeah, it's the lack of clarity that annoys me. So, if sprints are supposed to fire at missiles, fix them. If they're not supposed to fire at missiles, fix their description. I really don't care which- either is far better, and LOOKS far better, than sticking heads in the sand.
    • "Best of luck, Captains! And may the odds be ever in your favour..."


    • Raids Boycotted: Hellstrike, Lightning Carrier, Enforcer, Neptune- and at this rate, the entire upcoming Reaver raid series.

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  • S0ULHEX
    S0ULHEX
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2017 Posts: 364
    so question is will the next raids targets be the same way as this raids and clearly void our countermeasures? seems this last raid had many problems with not just counters but siege battery and shielded tac...
    My faction is Daedric

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  • Templar614
    Templar614
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    Joined Jul 2012 Posts: 12,876
    I haven't heard anything new on this topic yet, but it is still on the radar.
  • Outpost187
    Outpost187
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    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 79
    If the duck doesn't quack then it's not a duck
  • Pharaz
    Pharaz
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    Joined Jan 2013 Posts: 201
    I'm sure just as countermeasures list what they affect, projectiles have if they are affected by countermeasures and/or anti-penetrating. The missile is probably only affected by anti-penetrating so trident and sprint don't work on them. The rockets are affected by countermeasures so tridents and sprints work on them.
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