State of PvP - it will never balance out

Roman Lisyansky
Roman Lisyansky
Minor Nuisance
Joined Jan 2011 Posts: 115
My thoughts:
1) Making a conqueror hull immune to all damage types but 1 and making it so from that damage type it is killed instantly is not called balance
2) Making a conqueror hull near immune to all ship weapons in the game other then turrets is not called balance
3) Damage/Resist inflation in the game is going up every month making older hulls obsolete (not news) 
4) Making PvP where creativity is near 0 same as in PvE is boring no meter how you design or re-design FM or raid targets
5) Making a fleet start a battle in a base hit before you can control it is a fecking inraging

Before the PvP/PvE split all hulls could be built so they are not instantly dying when encounter a damage type they are not immune or weak to
if you control deflections in PvE and give resistance back in PvP creativity in fleet design is going back up and you still have control in PvE. I know its too late for that but I think this is how it should have been done. At this point I don't think the balance can ever be achieved  other then 1 month bases are OP another moths fleets are OP and switch again
  • Charlie Pugwash
    Charlie Pugwash
    Master Tactician
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 2,228
    edited 6 Dec 2017, 1:37PM
    Deflection is fundamentally impossible to balance properly on it's own. They actually knew this- that's why the health amounts of PVP ships are so high with low repair, to act as a pseudo-resistance to all damage types, but they've forgotten that, and so that health increase has not kept pace with the damage and deflection increase, so the power swings have become more and more severe as a natural consequence of deflection becoming an even more dominant part of the ship's defence. It's the power creep that's CAUSED the problem, don't get me wrong, but it wouldn't be such a strong SWING without deflection wreaking havoc.
    • "Best of luck, Captains! And may the odds be ever in your favour..."


    • Raids Boycotted: Hellstrike, Lightning Carrier, Enforcer, Neptune- and at this rate, the entire upcoming Reaver raid series.

    • First played: Shortly After Revenge Raid 2

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  • Joe_B222
    Joe_B222
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 440
    The Qing said:

    as I have said often enough, blame the muddle missile for starting the endless power escalation that has resulted in today's mess. it was the first weapon that couldn't be countered easily, and the fact that it goes on a sub that can shoot at you for at least a full minute without any chance of retaliation made it broken as ****.

    muddle missile was rendered obsolete by ONE hull, that came out shortly after..   Doesn't even need a **** gun on it..  ONE SINGLE hull in your base 100% stopped muddle missiles..  

    the muddle ( or the scats that came out after )  are not hard to stop on a glut.   Inq is a little harder with scats, but still not hard.. 


  • Skyline1627
    Skyline1627
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 143

    @The Qing said:
    as I have said often enough, blame the muddle missile for starting the endless power escalation that has resulted in today's mess. it was the first weapon that couldn't be countered easily, and the fact that it goes on a sub that can shoot at you for at least a full minute without any chance of retaliation made it broken as ****.

    Don't forget about the liberator increased pen range that outranged every single weapon before the muddle missile...

  • Cathedral_Rock
    Cathedral_Rock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 8,083
    all sounds like a bit of flattened base ****-hurt to me.....
    "Every time there is a change in the game it seems the general reply is a complaint about the changes before they ever happen.  However every time the game changes we use strategy and adapt to the changes and we get used to them. .....without these changes, the game would become boring." -captaindirty 10/31/2017
  • kixeyeuser_1365369523405_14232_1309869729
    kixeyeuser_1365369523405_14232_1309869729
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 1,852
    What Kixeye wants is for people to have a *reason* to spend thousands of dollars every month. So by alternating PvP ship weaknesses, they push the whales into coining the new ships whose weakness is just a bit stronger than current turrets, to get them out there and *useful* before the countering killer turret is released. And then they count on the whales coining that killer turret to stop having the new ship "walk" their bases. And yes, to have this happen requires serious power creep, every month. They are locked in a cycle where a very FEW players are coining massive amounts that fund this game, and they have to keep it going. And for the same reasons as PvE, yes, this means they must design ships with single weakness and strength pairings, stifling creativity and strategy, because they can't risk a loss of *mos* of this game's revenue because someone figures out a clever way to use older tech to solve a new challenge. But, as you say, "this is not news". This has been going on pretty much since the introduction of launchers...... 
  • The Qing
    The Qing
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 1,390

    @Skyline1627 said:

    @The Qing said:
    as I have said often enough, blame the muddle missile for starting the endless power escalation that has resulted in today's mess. it was the first weapon that couldn't be countered easily, and the fact that it goes on a sub that can shoot at you for at least a full minute without any chance of retaliation made it broken as ****.

    Don't forget about the liberator increased pen range that outranged every single weapon before the muddle missile...

    that was easy enough to shut down. blunderbuss turret with ATR transformer and reactive plate did it easily enough.

    Determination.

    That's all you'll need to face your enemies.

    Oh, and a lot of coins too, that helps.
  • The Qing
    The Qing
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 1,390

    @Joe_B222 said:
    The Qing said:

    as I have said often enough, blame the muddle missile for starting the endless power escalation that has resulted in today's mess. it was the first weapon that couldn't be countered easily, and the fact that it goes on a sub that can shoot at you for at least a full minute without any chance of retaliation made it broken as ****.

    muddle missile was rendered obsolete by ONE hull, that came out shortly after..   Doesn't even need a **** gun on it..  ONE SINGLE hull in your base 100% stopped muddle missiles..  

    the muddle ( or the scats that came out after )  are not hard to stop on a glut.   Inq is a little harder with scats, but still not hard.. 

    my point is that it caused the start of extreme power creep. sure the Justice rendered the mudgluts completely obsolete, then kix released the rage, which was a whole new level of overpowered with its cloak ability.

    Determination.

    That's all you'll need to face your enemies.

    Oh, and a lot of coins too, that helps.
  • FountainHead
    FountainHead
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 175
    The Qing said:

    @Joe_B222 said:
    The Qing said:

    as I have said often enough, blame the muddle missile for starting the endless power escalation that has resulted in today's mess. it was the first weapon that couldn't be countered easily, and the fact that it goes on a sub that can shoot at you for at least a full minute without any chance of retaliation made it broken as ****.

    muddle missile was rendered obsolete by ONE hull, that came out shortly after..   Doesn't even need a **** gun on it..  ONE SINGLE hull in your base 100% stopped muddle missiles..  

    the muddle ( or the scats that came out after )  are not hard to stop on a glut.   Inq is a little harder with scats, but still not hard.. 

    my point is that it caused the start of extreme power creep. sure the Justice rendered the mudgluts completely obsolete, then kix released the rage, which was a whole new level of overpowered with its cloak ability.

    I agree with this.. the gluts sucked and still do if you dont have a justice.. The cloak on the rage is fing stupid OP.. especially when its almost dead then it shrouds and commences walking through the base safe as a pig in ****. What may have been a base victory turns into defeat because a moronic decision by Kix
  • Joe_B222
    Joe_B222
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 440
    The Qing said:

    @Joe_B222 said:
    The Qing said:

    as I have said often enough, blame the muddle missile for starting the endless power escalation that has resulted in today's mess. it was the first weapon that couldn't be countered easily, and the fact that it goes on a sub that can shoot at you for at least a full minute without any chance of retaliation made it broken as ****.

    muddle missile was rendered obsolete by ONE hull, that came out shortly after..   Doesn't even need a **** gun on it..  ONE SINGLE hull in your base 100% stopped muddle missiles..  

    the muddle ( or the scats that came out after )  are not hard to stop on a glut.   Inq is a little harder with scats, but still not hard.. 

    my point is that it caused the start of extreme power creep. sure the Justice rendered the mudgluts completely obsolete, then kix released the rage, which was a whole new level of overpowered with its cloak ability.

    which got shut down very easy with old rets + throwers and a long channel..   then made 100% useless by the omega that came out not long after..


  • The Qing
    The Qing
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 1,390

    @Joe_B222 said:
    The Qing said:

    @Joe_B222 said:

    The Qing said:

    as I have said often enough, blame the muddle missile for starting the endless power escalation that has resulted in today's mess. it was the first weapon that couldn't be countered easily, and the fact that it goes on a sub that can shoot at you for at least a full minute without any chance of retaliation made it broken as ****.



    muddle missile was rendered obsolete by ONE hull, that came out shortly after..   Doesn't even need a **** gun on it..  ONE SINGLE hull in your base 100% stopped muddle missiles..  

    the muddle ( or the scats that came out after )  are not hard to stop on a glut.   Inq is a little harder with scats, but still not hard.. 

    my point is that it caused the start of extreme power creep. sure the Justice rendered the mudgluts completely obsolete, then kix released the rage, which was a whole new level of overpowered with its cloak ability.

    which got shut down very easy with old rets + throwers and a long channel..   then made 100% useless by the omega that came out not long after..

    you are proving my point. my point is that everything that kixeye releases after the mudgluts renders whatever came before it "100% useless", using your own words.

    the justice made the mudgluts completely obsolete.

    then the rages which were released next walked over any justice defence fleet.

    then the courage which was in the first bounty event, made rages absolutely useless. Good luck getting through 66k radioactive deflection.

    The BUS was the next step to the endless power creep. Its mortars could shred through the deflection of the courage (any defender hull really, even the raid video showed how easily it did it.) the BUS was also released together with the epic Cataclysm Mortar, which was lethal to pretty much any conqueror hull.

    Hence, the twinblade was introduced, and subsequently its more overpowered brother, the KW, both designed to survive Epic Cataclysm Mortar hits (or anything else for that matter)

    Now, we have the Hope, a hull so powerful that anything that isn't a twinblade, Sinquisitor, or KW will never survive more than a few rocket barrages from it.

    I don't even need to start with the Omega, which in itself could demolish many T6 conquerors, and any conquerors released after the omega had to have a certain concussive deflection to even be considered for use.

    this wasn't what PvP was like before. Before the mudgluts, when I was using liberators and saw a blunderbuss turret, my thought was "hmm, it's suboptimal, but I could consider rushing past that". When it was hyenas, I said "couple of phalanx will help me survive that". Now, there is no such middle ground. it's either "I'm completely immune, can't touch this", or "****, I'll be melted in milliseconds, nothing I can do about it."

    That's the problem with PvP right now. it's like playing a civilisations game where you are still using muskets and your opponent pulls out an atom bomb and wipes you out. No matter how skilled you are with a musket, you will never survive an atom bomb. The PvP meta before the mudgluts was basically a level playing field where everyone used muskets. The muddle missile was the atom bomb that singlehandedly obsoleted so many defenders and conquerors alike, and for future tech releases, it has been like that ever since.

    Determination.

    That's all you'll need to face your enemies.

    Oh, and a lot of coins too, that helps.
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