I found something curious...

Thane_Mantis
Thane_Mantis
Skilled Warrior
Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
edited 5 Nov 2017, 2:36AM
So recently me an Axel were discussing all things KIXEYE in the PM's and at some point the convo turned to the all things KIXEYE, and more specifically the KIXEYE Corp. Site, as I found it has recently been re-done at last. Anyways, hidden amongst the various lies about how much they give a damn_ and so on about their games, and their dedication to good products, there's one thing that stands out. They have a section dedicated to the various top members of the company, including its founders, Paul Preece, and good ol' David Scott.

Whats interesting particularly however is not David's bio, but Paul's. Here's what is has to say.
PAUL PREECE
Founder

Affectionately known as the "Godfather of Tower Defense," Paul Preece was the driving force behind the Facebook mega hit Battle Pirates and creator of the legendary Desktop Tower Defense. He currently works across studios overseeing game design and feature development for VEGA Conflict, War Commander: Rogue Assault, and a soon to be announced mobile title.

Hmm, a soon to be announced mobile title you say. How curious? I wonder... might this be related to those trademarks and whatnot I dug up awhile ago and discussed here? Could this be Kingdom Maker taking shape? Thoughts everyone?

UPDATE: I looked back through the bio's and found this entry for David Scott.
I think it was a recent edit since I don't recall the mention of a new mobile title at the end like last time I looked.
DAVID SCOTT
Founder

Using novel game mechanics and deft creativity, David Scott has leveraged his passion for gaming to pioneer new genres during his storied career. He created Flash Element TD, the first browser-based Tower Defense game in 2007, and followed it with the first ever MMORTS, Backyard Monsters, in 2010. He currently serves as Creative Director on a soon to be announced mobile title.

Hmm, more confirmation of a new mobile title it seems.
image
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    edited 19 Nov 2017, 2:59PM
    My search for information is yielding more information, and hidden secrets along the way.
    I stumbled upon the original thread that helped me learn of Shadow Forge, and whilst it may not be entirely relevant anymore, it did give me an idea. Since the link in that thread remained valid (https://www.kixeye.com/game/shadowforge/)  I decided to replace the /shadowforge/ part with /kingdommaker/ and it seems to be a functional link of sorts, as I was redirected here.

    Considering the lack of content on that page, I'd dismiss this almost entirely and immediately, if it weren't for that aforementioned functional redirection of that initial link. It seems that KIXEYE might already have some back-end framework of sorts in place for Kingdom Maker to give it a full place on the site down the line.

    And just to be sure this wasn't necessarily a fluke of sorts, I tried entering the other two names in between those slashes, /wildlanders/ & /wildorn/ and even tried adding "home" after the last slash for both URL's (since the Kingdom Maker page has "home" written after the last slash in the URL) and none of them take you to a hidden page, they redirect you to your profile page instead. So this might lend a little bit of credit to possibility of this game being full steam ahead in development perhaps? Thoughts everyone?

    EDIT: I was trying more of those home link tricks and found the old homepage for Tome.
    Nothing there save for some outdated leaderboard, but hey, its still there. Just in case anyone cared.

    Oh, and on a somewhat unrelated note, whilst the game does seem to be dead, I did find what may have been the first and/or last official status post on Shadow Forge. CM Scarlett prior to his vanishing from the forums did seem to at least confirm this was a thing here in this thread. I wonder what happened to it to cause it to seemingly get cancelled.
    image
  • Yard
    Yard
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 11,781

    Interesting stuff. Good detective work, Thane. Maybe they're finally nearing the arrival of a new game after literal years, not counting WC:RA. If it's mobile I might check it out, if Kixeye have finally learnt that Android support actually is worth a ****.

    image
  • Yard
    Yard
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 11,781

    Wow, the forums censor d-a-m-n? Holy ****.

    image
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    Yard said:

    Wow, the forums censor d-a-m-n? Holy ****.

    Its official. Censorship has gone too far.
    image
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    edited 5 Nov 2017, 2:13AM
    Yard said:

    Interesting stuff. Good detective work, Thane. Maybe they're finally nearing the arrival of a new game after literal years, not counting WC:RA. If it's mobile I might check it out, if Kixeye have finally learnt that Android support actually is worth a ****.

    I have to admit, my curiosity is peaked as well. Maybe even I'll give it a try or a look over upon is release, as long as it supports android like you said, since Im also using an android phone. Though admittedly at the same time, recalling my past experience with their games though, I can't help but cynically have low expectations for this new one.

    I must say, one thing I find particularly curious about this Kingdom Maker (if that does remain its name) is the name itself. It kinda sounds like a departure from what KIXEYE normally does, doesn't it? Maybe Im reading to far into this, but the name to me sounds like it might be focused less on fighting and so on when compared to their other products. Maybe even remove it entirely? Though I feel this is a stretch, since this would likely make it similar to the games produced by Zynga, and KIXEYE has mocked them for their game style since the rebranding.

    Just look at them. The names of more or less all their other games indicate a strong fighting aspect from the outset. Battle Pirates, War Commander, VEGA Conflict, War Commander: Rogue Assault, Desktop Defender,  Tome: Immortal Arena. The only possible exception to this rule is Backyard Monsters, and Backyard Monsters: Unleashed, though still fighting was an ever present element in both those games. But Kingdom Maker? It sounds quite tame compared to their other works doesn't it?

    Then again, maybe Im wrong and I am reading into it to much and it turns out this will be their bloodiest game yet, who knows?
    It shall be interesting how things turn out for this new game, won't it?
    image
  • DreamCat
    DreamCat
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 2,939
    Thane, stop putting all of your skill points into investigation.
  • Yard
    Yard
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 11,781

    Kingdom Maker sounds like it could be a Clash of Clans style game to me.

    image
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    edited 5 Nov 2017, 1:49PM
    DreamCat said:
    Thane, stop putting all of your skill points into investigation.
    Too late... I've invested every point I have to tracing information. Its a very useful after all.
    Where did your skill points go?
    image
  • DreamCat
    DreamCat
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 2,939
    DreamCat said:
    Thane, stop putting all of your skill points into investigation.
    Too late... I've invested every point I have to tracing information. Its a very useful after all.
    Where did your skill points go?
    College test-taking...
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    edited 7 Nov 2017, 2:02PM
    I have more information guys. Or at least, yet another piece of information confirming a new title.
    On the Corporate Site, they have links to career centres showing job offerings at their various development studios at:
    Brisbane has no openings, and Victoria are only offering positions for a QA Lead and a Senior Game Developer working on War Commander. San Francisco however has one opening referencing a new "Unity" Project, so that tells us this games engine that it runs on. I must say, Unity is an interesting engine choice, as its a popular pick for developing games across as many platforms as possible. I wonder if this leaves open the chance for this game to move from mobile to maybe desktop?

    At any rate, Yard, this is likely good news for you as this should give great odds this game comes to Android, since Unity prides itself on being a multi-platform engine, deployable to over 25 platforms, including of course, Android. Thoughts?
    image
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    Thane, stop putting all of your skill points into investigation.
    Too late... I've invested every point I have to tracing information. Its a very useful after all.
    Where did your skill points go?
    College test-taking...
    Fair enough. Did that investment play off?
    image
  • DreamCat
    DreamCat
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 2,939
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    Thane, stop putting all of your skill points into investigation.
    Too late... I've invested every point I have to tracing information. Its a very useful after all.
    Where did your skill points go?
    College test-taking...
    Fair enough. Did that investment play off?
    LOL NOPE
  • Initial_Degeneration
    Initial_Degeneration
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Mar 2015 Posts: 2,839
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    Thane, stop putting all of your skill points into investigation.
    Too late... I've invested every point I have to tracing information. Its a very useful after all.
    Where did your skill points go?
    College test-taking...
    Fair enough. Did that investment play off?
    LOL NOPE
    mood 

  • DreamCat
    DreamCat
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 2,939
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    Thane, stop putting all of your skill points into investigation.
    Too late... I've invested every point I have to tracing information. Its a very useful after all.
    Where did your skill points go?
    College test-taking...
    Fair enough. Did that investment play off?
    LOL NOPE
    mood 
    Failing Calculus but memes and video games are still there for me AMIRITE!?!?!?
  • PalTheCow
    PalTheCow
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Mar 2011 Posts: 2,986
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    Thane, stop putting all of your skill points into investigation.
    Too late... I've invested every point I have to tracing information. Its a very useful after all.
    Where did your skill points go?
    College test-taking...
    Fair enough. Did that investment play off?
    LOL NOPE
    mood 
    Failing Calculus but memes and video games are still there for me AMIRITE!?!?!?
    Memes and video games will always be there my dude.
    Moo
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    PalTheCow said:
    DreamCat said:
    Failing Calculus but memes and video games are still there for me AMIRITE!?!?!?
    Memes and video games will always be there my dude.
    Speaking of games, if anyone's interested, Ubisoft is giving away Watch_Dogs for free on uPlay.
    image
  • No..Beard
    No..Beard
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2010 Posts: 3,758
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    Thane, stop putting all of your skill points into investigation.
    Too late... I've invested every point I have to tracing information. Its a very useful after all.
    Where did your skill points go?
    College test-taking...
    Fair enough. Did that investment play off?
    LOL NOPE
    mood 
    Failing Calculus but memes and video games are still there for me AMIRITE!?!?!?
    Image result for calculus failing funny

    BP ID: 1038         WC ID: 1476        VC ID: 18589     Tome ID: 3698   

    image

  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    No..Beard said:
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    DreamCat said:
    Thane, stop putting all of your skill points into investigation.
    Too late... I've invested every point I have to tracing information. Its a very useful after all.
    Where did your skill points go?
    College test-taking...
    Fair enough. Did that investment play off?
    LOL NOPE
    mood 
    Failing Calculus but memes and video games are still there for me AMIRITE!?!?!?
    Image result for calculus failing funny
    Accurate pie chart is accurate. I swear with some math problems you need to be a bloody_ wizard to solve them.
    image
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    edited 15 Nov 2017, 9:53PM
    Alright, Im back at this again, because yet again I've found more information. This time however, its not about Kingdom Maker, but details on the mysterious Shadow Forge, and what this game might have become had it survived since signs point to its death. My search for information lead me back to this thread here which as I've said before, was where I originally learnt of Shadow Forge if memory serves me well.

    Well, one comment was posted which gave me an idea to try.

    Type in shadow forge kixeye in google

    So I did just this and was lead to a couple LinkedIn profiles, one belonging to a man called Ben Dickens, (FYI, you'll need a LinkedIn account yourself to view their profiles if you want to see what I found firsthand, but don't worry, I'll quote what I've got and if anyone wants, can provide screenshots) and the other to a man called Rahim Wahab.

    Mr. Wahabs file didn't seem to contain anything of particular note as far as I could see, just a mention of him working on Shadow Forge when I saw it in Google search's results (though I will take a more in depth look in a bit.) Not sure what his official role was however since his file itself seemed to state nothing. Ben Dickens however, did have some details of note.
    Quote from his profile:
    Product Manager
    KIXEYE
    Jul 2012 - Dec 2015
    3 yrs 6 mos
    San Francisco Bay Area

    Product Manager: Battle Pirates
    - Grew Battle Pirates, the company’s highest earning title, to become a top-10 grossing Facebook game for over 2 years.
    - Managed the game roadmap and drove month-over-month improvements in ARPDAU
    - Developed and managed all in-game events, which generated the majority of monthly revenue
    - Worked with a first-party team of 30 (engineers, designers, artists, and QA). 

    Lead Product Manager: Shadow Forge 
    - Secured a $3M budget to produce and launch a new mobile, Puzzle-fighting game (Shadow Forge) simultaneously on iOS and Android.
    - Developed the GDD and monetization strategy
    - Worked with an internal team of five and a 2nd party developer team of 12

    So Shadow Forge was a mobile puzzle fighting game? Hmm, anyone know of any similar type games we might compare it to in order to get a better sense of just how this might have worked? Thoughts in general guys? Think it would have worked?
    If I find anything more, I'll keep the thread updated.
    image
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    edited 15 Nov 2017, 2:17PM
    Another couple of updates.
    First of all, just in case anyone was curious, I figured out Rahim's role in Shadow Forge. According to a recommendation/endorsement on his LinkedIn Profile, he was a Quality Engineer for Shadow Forge, as well as Battle Pirates once.
    Excerpt from a recommendation by Steve Wetherill:
    Rahim joined my team in February 2015 and worked in the area of Quality Engineering on two games, Battle Pirates (for web) and Shadow Forge (for mobile).
    Sidenote: Potentially interesting fact about this guy Steve. According to his profile, between 2013 and 2016 he was, amongst other other roles a Technical Director on an unannounced Unity/Mobile title. Considering the timing, Im guessing this may mean his hand was also involved with Kingdom Maker.

    Secondly, I found an official statement made by Will Harbin, AKA Destro himself, also referencing what is likely Kingdom Maker. Initially I learned of this this specific post from the TOME: Immortal Arena News Page on Facebook which quotes part of his statement, and later found the full quote (since the original thread is gone) in this article.

    Excerpt from a statement by Will Harbin:
    We have narrowed the focus of the company to support our existing browser titles and our soon to be globally launched mobile games: Vega Conflict, War Commander Rogue Assault, Shadow Forge (codename) and a very special title that I'm personally working with Dave and Paul on.
    So that tells us 2 things.
    1) Shadow Forge is/was possibly not meant to be the public name of this now bygone game.
    2) This quote was from early 2015, around February 5th in fact, nearly a full year before the initial trademark filing by KIXEYE according to the Kingdom Maker page on Trademarkia, whereas its filing date is dated as January 12th 2016 instead, nearly a year ahead. This hints that Kingdom Maker has been in development for nearly 3 years now.

    Thoughts everyone?
    image
  • Yard
    Yard
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 11,781

    Remind me never to **** you off, Thane. I have a feeling you'd have my name, age, location and favourite flavour of icecream all within a day or so.

    In all seriousness, good searching. Any idea why Shadow Forge died? It sounds fairly different concept wise but that can be hard to judge from a short description.

    image
  • Yard
    Yard
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 11,781

    The censored word was _piss. Just clarifying as most other expletives would look weird there.

    image
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    edited 15 Nov 2017, 1:17PM
    Yard said:

    Remind me never to **** you off, Thane. I have a feeling you'd have my name, age, location and favourite flavour of icecream all within a day or so.

    Considering various statements you've made in the past in these forums Yard, as well as a few things I know about the forums and games, I think I know all (save for the ice cream flavour lol) this stuff already. Want me to prove it? Or, considering how I think I've proven a knack for locating obscure info thus far, would you rather take my word for it lol.
    Yard said:

    In all seriousness, good searching.

    Thank you.
    Yard said:

    Any idea why Shadow Forge died? It sounds fairly different concept wise but that can be hard to judge from a short description.

    I dunno. I got no specific details on that (yet lol.) I certainly find it strange that it died, especially considering it had, bare minimum, $3 million dollars in its budget according to Ben Dickens LinkedIn page. And considering it was launching just for 2 platforms, using an engine like Unity which makes porting relatively simple as I understand it, it seems, I dunno, suspect. Especially since KIXEYE does by now have experience with both developing mobile titles, the Unity engine, and actually launching on mobile.

    Might be a few reasons why it went down the drain:
    • Maybe it KIXEYE just spent too much time on it originally without making any real headway and decided to just scrap it.
    • Maybe its developers couldn't come up a full creative vision for the game and what it was meant to be.
    • Maybe its death is due to KIXEYE (at least at the time,) not knowing how to make mobile games.*
    • Maybe its, for now at least, just stuck in development hell_ and it'll resurface again.
    • Maybe it, to some extent, got merged with Kingdom Maker.
    • Maybe it died to due to a mismanaged budget.
    Could be any of this reasons, or an entirely separate one. Could be several factors involved and not just one.
    At the end of the day its a mystery. Or if you prefer;
    Image result for its a secret to everybody
    One I think I'll turn my attention too whilst Im looking out for info on Kingdom Maker.
    I'll keep you posted.

    *This personally is my best guess. This game according to that previously mentioned statement by Harbin was in development since at least 2015 before it died. If I remember correctly, at the time KIXEYE had no mobile games (except the multi-platform Vega Conflict,) and the, by then miserable failure, that was BYM:U.

    So Mobile development may not have been something they originally knew how to do at the time, and do it right-ish** so they could actually produce a finished and functioning project. (**Lets be fair, they still don't know how to do games right, let alone mobile lol.) So yeah, Im guessing that its possibly inexperience that ultimately killed the project.
    Yard said:

    The censored word was _piss. Just clarifying as most other expletives would look weird there.

    I figured that was it. Damn_ censorship feature, taking all our swear words, lol.
    EDIT: I just learned the word hell_ gets censored, after it blocked out the 4th reason in my list of ideas why Shadow Forge bit the dust. Bloody_ censorship feature...
    image
  • Yard
    Yard
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Nov 2010 Posts: 11,781

    @Thane_Mantis said:
    Yard said:

    Remind me never to **** you off, Thane. I have a feeling you'd have my name, age, location and favourite flavour of icecream all within a day or so.

    Considering various statements you've made in the past in these forums Yard, as well as a few things I know about the forums and games, I think I know all (save for the ice cream flavour lol) this stuff already. Want me to prove it? Or, considering how I think I've proven a knack for locating obscure info thus far, would you rather take my word for it lol.

    I certain my believe you. Though to be fait, other than the ice cream thing I'm not too secretive lol.

    Interesting post again, could well be that they just weren't experienced with mobile games, but surely that's what hiring us for. Then again, didn't they have some big layoffs in the past? Don't remember when it was, but if it was around 2015 perhaps it contributed.

    image
  • No..Beard
    No..Beard
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jun 2010 Posts: 3,758
    Yard said:

    Remind me never to **** you off, Thane. I have a feeling you'd have my name, age, location and favourite flavour of icecream all within a day or so.

    In all seriousness, good searching. Any idea why Shadow Forge died? It sounds fairly different concept wise but that can be hard to judge from a short description.

    Image result for mantis detective


    On the other hand, my real life is a complete cipher. 
    You'd never even be able to guess my home country...


    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .


    Image result for moose canada

    BP ID: 1038         WC ID: 1476        VC ID: 18589     Tome ID: 3698   

    image

  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    No..Beard said:
    Yard said:

    Remind me never to **** you off, Thane. I have a feeling you'd have my name, age, location and favourite flavour of icecream all within a day or so.

    In all seriousness, good searching. Any idea why Shadow Forge died? It sounds fairly different concept wise but that can be hard to judge from a short description.

    Image result for mantis detective
    And here comes No.. Beard with images for all occasions. Thanks for posting this No.. Beard, this made me smile.
    No..Beard said:
    On the other hand, my real life is a complete cipher. 
    You'd never even be able to guess my home country...


    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .


    Image result for moose canada
    Nope. Never.
    image
  • Axel L
    Axel L
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 5,896
    edited 17 Nov 2017, 9:21PM
    No..Beard said:
    Yard said:

    Remind me never to **** you off, Thane. I have a feeling you'd have my name, age, location and favourite flavour of icecream all within a day or so.

    In all seriousness, good searching. Any idea why Shadow Forge died? It sounds fairly different concept wise but that can be hard to judge from a short description.

    Image result for mantis detective


    On the other hand, my real life is a complete cipher. 
    You'd never even be able to guess my home country...


    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .

    .


    Image result for moose canada
    I have a guess.
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****
    **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ****

    Video games don't cause violence, lag does.
  • Thane_Mantis
    Thane_Mantis
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 305
    edited 19 Nov 2017, 2:10AM
    Yard said:

    I certain my believe you. Though to be fait, other than the ice cream thing I'm not too secretive lol.

    Hmm true. You have made fairly open statements about some details about you in the past, such as your age.
    Yard said:

    Interesting post again, could well be that they just weren't experienced with mobile games, but surely that's what hiring us for. Then again, didn't they have some big layoffs in the past? Don't remember when it was, but if it was around 2015 perhaps it contributed.

    Yeah, they dropped alot of people in the past. I think a Will Harbin quote (possibly the one I linked above) made an allusion to this, stating it was to help the company focus on current projects. Still, some estimates made bold claims that the layoffs were nearly 25% of the entire company, though these numbers were refuted by Harbin, so make of all that what you will.

    You're right also about the layoffs being in 2015, specifically January, at least for the first round. (Must've been a right crappy start to the new year for some of those employees right? Barely 2 weeks in and a bunch lost their jobs.) Second round of layoffs as there were apparently 2 started in around July. So yeah, you may be right that those layoffs may have contributed somewhat to the decline of some of their projects including BYM:U as they may not have had experienced designers anymore.
    image
Sign In or Register to comment.