Upcoming Accuracy Bug Fix / Countermeasure Update

  • billiesditties
    billiesditties
    Greenhorn
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 20
    The only Bug that worries me is the developers need to fix only those issues that return highest cash return to their pots of gold without so much as a blink. Players down. Cash input down. Hours of play down. Recruitment down. Strange that you STILL insist that you are making the game a players game. Get real! listen and learn before the bell tolls.
  • msantosjr
    msantosjr
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 148

    The corrections "Targets missiles & rockets only once. Repeatedly targets mortars."


    1.) Will it be applied for the CM of the entire fleet or applied for each hull in the fleet? EX. A leadship has 1x Phal.4 while the 4 regular ships have 1x Sprint CM. 

    When the 1st missile/rocket projectile from enemy turret/ship is detected by the Sprint CM (longer cm range) and fire at by the regular Ship, Will the Leadhip going to fire at the same projectile considering that the Sprints from the regular ships missed it? 


    2.) What are the odds of countering missile/rockets projectiles with salvos/multi-shot of 2 or more? Will those projectile will be tag individually? 


  • Wayward_son
    Wayward_son
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2016 Posts: 614
    edited 10 Jun 2018, 7:04PM
    msantosjr said:

    The corrections "Targets missiles & rockets only once. Repeatedly targets mortars."


    1.) Will it be applied for the CM of the entire fleet or applied for each hull in the fleet? EX. A leadship has 1x Phal.4 while the 4 regular ships have 1x Sprint CM. 

    When the 1st missile/rocket projectile from enemy turret/ship is detected by the Sprint CM (longer cm range) and fire at by the regular Ship, Will the Leadhip going to fire at the same projectile considering that the Sprints from the regular ships missed it? 


    2.) What are the odds of countering missile/rockets projectiles with salvos/multi-shot of 2 or more? Will those projectile will be tag individually? 


    The way it used to work before this happened, was it did not matter tagged was tagged, no ship would fire on the same missile twice

     However, your asking the wrong question, the one you should be asking is this, Will these changes apply to the NPC ships? If no, no need in lowering the difficulty, because nobody will be playing anymore.
  • DavisJefferson
    DavisJefferson
    Potential Threat
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 87
    So let me see if I have this straight...  My two Zelos Three Mono FM fleet that I have worked on for months, spent coin on to rank and refit so it can finally do FM Targets for little or no damage if I drive properly will now take massive damage?  Just more of you Required Minimum Damage bs.
  • A real counter measure:
    The Phalanx Close-In Weapons System (CIWS) was designed to be a last line of defense for anti-ship missiles. It consists of a radar-guided 20 mm Gatling gun mounted on a swivel base and can fire 4,500 rounds/minute (75 rounds/second). The effective firing range is 3.6 km (2.2 mi). The CIWS can also be used to defend against fast-attack boats and surface threats. Filmed aboard the U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Bertholf (WMSL-750).

    youtube has the video.

  • War_StalkeR
    War_StalkeR
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,238
    edited 21 Jun 2018, 12:35PM
    HA-HA-HA! What do you know about real countermeasures? Kixeye's countermeasures are the best! They poke you in the behind repeatedly until you start spending coins on the game! BEST! COUNTERMEASURES! EVER! I already feel countermeasured by Kixeye so deep!
    Without a face, a single word, the flames of war unify
    Sundered clouds, a blooody rain, seas that fill the sky
    Capture the gods, advance the troops, fire consumes the towers
    Forge all spirits and bloodlines into the nine killing powers!
  • THE-RainMaker
    THE-RainMaker
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 181

    I don’t know if someone has already addressed this but some of the countermeasures you said target rockets do not target rockets. Might want to double check your work and make sure that you’re not accidentally creating a bunch of super-countermeasures

    Base Name: RainMaker
    Location: Sector 253, Central Relay Tower
  • MACAKS
    MACAKS
    Potential Threat
    Joined Mar 2012 Posts: 80

    In response to community feedback, we are making an effort to address long standing bugs and quality of life concerns. Here are two we discovered that had major impact to your recent experience, that will be in part of the 8.26 update scheduled for the week of June 26.

    Accuracy Bug

    The Battle Pirates team has discovered a bug which has caused any weapon or countermeasure equipped to a ship (both players’ and enemies’) to unintentionally be granted a 100% bonus to accuracy. We want to ensure that equipment is working as their stats indicate, so we have fixed this issue to remove the bonus to accuracy.

    To ensure this does not dramatically change your gameplay experience, the team is working to rebalance the targets that have been released since this bug was introduced back in February. This process may take several weeks and during that time please don’t hesitate to make note of your experience through feedback so that we can ensure we balance combat accordingly. Due to the large number of targets, and the variety of builds that people use, we’re counting on coordination with the community to stabilize this aspect of gameplay and we appreciate your input.

    For reference, there are  a number of places this bug touches the game:

    • PVE Targets

      • All of your ship mounted weapons and countermeasures

      • All enemy ship mounted weapons and countermeasures

    • PVP

      • All conqueror weapons and countermeasures

      • All defender weapons and countermeasures

    TL;DR

    • Correcting bug that granted 100% accuracy buff to ship mounted weapons and countermeasures

    • Adjusting targets to maintain current experience

    • If you see something that looks unexpected please let us know

    Countermeasure Update

    The team is updating the way that countermeasures work, to bring them in line with the expectations of how they should behave.

    Currently, most countermeasures that target rockets or missiles get a single shot at countering that projectile, while countermeasures that target mortars get multiple shots at countering that projectile.  UAVs act differently, in that they can get targeted by countermeasures until they reach their first target, at which point the UAVs become immune and will move from target to target .

    When introducing countermeasures that were able to target both mortars and missiles, such as Zelo’s built in Duality Countermeasure and the Nightwatch Countermeasure, this introduced problems with how they interacted with projectiles.  A dual countermeasure treated both missiles and mortars the same, which means it either repeatedly targeted both missiles and mortars, or it only took one shot at either missiles or mortars. As such, combining these countermeasures with other countermeasures could cause poor performance (see Example #1 below).

    When a missile is fired at by a countermeasure, it is “tagged” so that it will not be targeted again.  When a mortar is fired at by a countermeasure, it is not tagged and can continued to be targeted by counter measures.  Currently, this tag is defined by the countermeasure. Moving forward, we are changing this to tag a projectile, or not, based on the specific projectile that it is firing at. Let’s look at some examples:

    Example #1:

    Currently: The Nightwatch Countermeasure is “tagging” all projectiles it shoots at.  So, if you have equipped a Nightwatch Countermeasure and Gale Defense System III and the Nightwatch shoots a mortar, it becomes “tagged” and the Gale Defense System III will no longer target it.  
    After the Update: Nightwatch Countermeasure no longer “tags” mortars and Gales Defense System III continues to fire at that mortar (as will the Nightwatch).

    Example #2

    Currently: The Zelo’s built-in Duality Countermeasure does not “tag” any of the projectiles it shoots at, which means that it can repeatedly target any missiles or rockets that it fires at. However,if you had a Phalanx Anti-Missile System IV equipped on your Zelos, once it targeted a missile it would be “tagged” and no additional countermeasures (including Duality Countermeasures) would target it.

    After the Update: Zelo’s Duality Countermeasure “tags” missiles or rockets that it fires at, and no other countermeasures fire at them.

    Changes to Specific Items

    Countermeasure

    Before Fix

    After Fix

    Deep Sea Countermeasure .      

    Repeatedly targets all valid projectiles.         

    Targets missiles & rockets only once.

    Repeatedly targets mortars.


    Nightwatch Mortars

    Targets each projectile only once.

    Targets missiles & rockets only once.

    Repeatedly targets mortars.

    Coxial Turret

    Targets each projectile only once.

    Targets missiles & rockets only once.

    Repeatedly targets mortars.

    Elite Countermeasures

    Repeatedly targets all valid projectiles.

    Targets missiles & rockets only once.

    Repeatedly targets mortars.

    Duality Countermeasure

    Repeatedly targets all valid projectiles.

    Target missiles & rockets only once.

    Repeatedly targets mortars.

    TL;DR

    • We are updating counter measures to act as expected, and maintain consistency across the game

    • Mortars and UAVs will be targeted by countermeasures repeatedly

    • Missiles and Rockets will be targeted by countermeasures once

    Conclusion

    With both of these changes, your experience in Battle Pirates is being brought much closer to what is expected based on listed stats.  We are striving to improve the experience of Battle Pirate every day, and we appreciate your being a part of this journey.

    where the hell is this community / player feedback lol  i really hate those words..
  • mike.scott.73307
    mike.scott.73307
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 522
    The ramifications of this could be huge.  Its hard to determine what this will do to the game experience.  I expect its going to be horrible but could be wrong.  Evade may finally work for us but will it work even better for our opponents in PVE.  Start the ship tokens to flowing as we are going to need to test and change many many ships I expect; though I would be pleasantly surprised if I was wrong about how bad this is going to be or by Kixeye giving us what is needed to change and adapt quickly with minimum pain.
  • Rick Swank
    Rick Swank
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 287
    Rampages stated:  With both of these changes, your experience in Battle Pirates is being brought much closer to what is expected based on listed stats.  Question is, Who's expectations?  Ours or Kix's?  If, it is Kix's expected expectations, then guess the next wave of players will be quitting the game.
  • Wayward_son
    Wayward_son
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2016 Posts: 614
    The ramifications of this could be huge.  Its hard to determine what this will do to the game experience.  I expect its going to be horrible but could be wrong.  Evade may finally work for us but will it work even better for our opponents in PVE.  Start the ship tokens to flowing as we are going to need to test and change many many ships I expect; though I would be pleasantly surprised if I was wrong about how bad this is going to be or by Kixeye giving us what is needed to change and adapt quickly with minimum pain.
    When you consider most of kixeye's "adjustments" are usually way overcompensating, I expect worst case scenario where i'll stop playing again till i get the next useless (by the time it's given to me) fleet. No big. I had not planned to spend any money anyways
  • STING001
    STING001
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 116
    I had refitted my Zelos fleet from Trident to Sprint and now it takes damage in a 111.  Good job again Kixeye putting the screws to us!
  • Glitchomancy
    Glitchomancy
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2013 Posts: 325
    STING001 said:
    I had refitted my Zelos fleet from Trident to Sprint and now it takes damage in a 111.  Good job again Kixeye putting the screws to us!

    interesting considering update still 2 weeks away
  • steve.blankenship.988
    steve.blankenship.988
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 9
    Dozens of boring game chores, no real way to tell if anything works as described, ridiculous levels of complexity in modification statistics, and absolute tone-deafness regarding feedback given by players. I will NEVER play another game developed by KIXEYE.
  • Kenkyona Shinobi
    Kenkyona Shinobi
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 869
    edited 13 Jun 2018, 5:09PM
    "We are here to improve the game experience..."

    Recall fleet... fleet stops after hitting recalled... fleet gets sunk by enemy... bug still here....
    Fleets on defense removed from base during combat... enemy destroys base... bug still here...
    Attack Combat loading screens.... fleet moves during loading... player loses 10-45% .... bug still here...
    *100% Accuracy for CM since February... helps the player with FM... and working fleets... must fix it now...

    *Improper Defense Weapons for bases.... PvP fleets high end player visits... base destroyed... player quits...

    If you want to balance the game it "must" start with "base defenses" and proper weapons that all players should
    be able to get or at least be able to do something with. If they knew about the bug since "Feb" then why not have
    it fixed that month instead of 4 months later.

    On that note when older bugs still exist then why are they not fixed in the order of oldest to newest. You would think
    that the oldest bugs would take property first. If the bug is helping players why not add the stats to the CM instead or
    reduce the status of accuracy to 70% and then place it on the guns. 

    Removing something that is working should not hurt the community but, it will if we already use proper methods of 
    defeating bases. We will under go spending more coins for damage that is not necessary low end players already suffer
    from high end players now they will suffer another fate.
      

  • Kenkyona Shinobi
    Kenkyona Shinobi
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 869
    edited 13 Jun 2018, 4:24PM


    TL;DR

    • We are updating counter measures to act as expected, and maintain consistency across the game

    • Mortars and UAVs will be targeted by countermeasures repeatedly

    • Missiles and Rockets will be targeted by countermeasures once


    Okay so let's assume we are using countermeasures that are designed to shoot down 
    missiles, rockets or uav's are you saying our Phalanx, Sprint, Tridents, and Switch Blade
    won't do as the weapon states it does? Shoot only one for anti weapons will cause a major
    up roar in the community if the guns already have firing issues.

    The firing issues will be more worse than before if the game is tailored to just (PvP) side
    which is the Mortar gets (repeatedly) countered you will have an up roar on (PvP) side
    which will make players who are active quit. If you look at countermeasures as a whole
    you will notice that missiles get through even if you have the proper anti counter on the
    same holds true with uav or rockets.  

    It is a good idea for fixing the accuracy 100% issue however, lets look how the guns are
    firing now verse the newly update. If they are going to slowly shoot only one target at a
    time that is not helping the player. It renders them from the target and they fail to be 
    successful at defeating the base. 

    Lets go into reload of guns if the reload is low the shoot per one will be good however,
    if the reload is higher then the shoot will be bad. So if your stating the changes will go
    across the board you will need to also look at the factors of reloads for anti weapons.

    Bypass chains was something talked about many years ago when UAV's come out if 
    you look ahead ya'll are phasing out the use of UAV's as a whole. Could of added in 
    a chain break to break the swarm chains of UAV's but, did not. 

    Range is something else that needs to be looked at if you are 90-120 range away 
    but, the turret for anti is from 30 - 90 then the countermeasure should be within
    that zone before it activates. Most the time if you watch the range settings they 
    fire at the same rate as the range you have maxed on fleets. 

    Really dislike if our anti's that are designed or tailored specific for the purpose 
    of counter to only shoot once verse turrets that shoot multiple times. Another 
    thing that has to be done is turret's firing multiple shoots reduced down. If you
    look at Missiles or Scatterguns on turret's you will notice that the spits are high
    or between 4 - 9 at a time.

    Our countermeasures only grabs about 1/3 or less as it is now, with looking
    forward it will only counter one at a time which will mean we take on more
    damage. We should not take on more damage if using proper anti counter
    measures. 
  • d.scott.hewitt
    d.scott.hewitt
    Master Tactician
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 2,041
    Yeah. Great.


    Thanx.

    Scott


    Why not just have Countermeasures fire until the target is destroyed all the time? Or in the case of UAVs, until they hit the first target?

    You guys have access to YouTube? Some great videos there of how a REAL Phalanx System, and many other similar systems work........



    There 10 types of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
  • CM Major_Rampage
    CM Major_Rampage
    KIXEYE Community Manager
    Joined Jul 2017 Posts: 1,261
    I want to thank everyone for their feedback in this thread.  I have discussed this with the BP team and have some additional information for you.
    • In our internal testing the Zelos / Monolith fleets are maintaining a similar experience in how much damage they are taking in the FM Targets.
    • Due to your feedback the team is trying to move the release of these changes to the 8.25 release, next week, so you can react to these changes with more time before Bounty 11.  However due to the complexity of all the QA testing we do not know if we can release this next week yet.
    • Our goal is to maintain your experience when you are hitting the same targets.  However due to the variety of builds that you all have, there is a chance that there may be edge cases we have not seen.  If you experience a wild swing in your experience please let us know and we will investigate.  In this case please provide specifics about your fleet and what target you are hitting.
    The BP team once again thanks you for your feedback.  And we look forward to continue to improve your experience in Battle Pirates.
    If you have technical questions, please submit a ticket here.
    Having trouble submitting a ticket? Try this link.
    Not sure about the rules
  • SIF
    SIF
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 1,367
    • Our goal is to maintain your experience when you are hitting the same targets.  However due to the variety of builds that you all have, there is a chance that there may be edge cases we have not seen.  If you experience a wild swing in your experience please let us know and we will investigate.  In this case please provide specifics about your fleet and what target you are hitting.
    Why bother? You'll just tell us it's our fault.

  • The -Master -Blaster
    The -Master -Blaster
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 302
    By  nerffing our counter measure and saying its to increase our playing experience .your not fooling anyone .....Why not just make all Counters act like anti mortars and keep firing ....
  • Gryffon
    Gryffon
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Feb 2014 Posts: 627
    DON'T MESS THIS UP KIXEYE, if you mess it up even for a day you will drive a lot of players away from the game.  Make sure you implement it correctly and don't mess the game up.
  • jhaglund
    jhaglund
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 592
    Countermeasures should work with their accuracy and reload times. If the reload time is reached, then it should try again if there is a projectile. Accuracy is the chance it will shoot the projectile (minus the projectile evade).  Anything else is just a garbage excuse to create more damage to the players. I will be watching this. 
  • Joe_B222
    Joe_B222
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 1,200
    It is my understanding that this CM fix applies only to  " ship based CMs ".   

    Is this correct?

    IS the team working on the bugged ECM turrets we have in our base.  Video after Video of them have been posted here ( and send into CS ) that shows they flat out do no shoot at specific things.  

    When is this turret being looked at?   we are going to be losing effectiveness of our ship mounted CMs,  I would think that the turret based CMs need to function correctly..


  • retsirf
    retsirf
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2014 Posts: 56
    edited 18 Jun 2018, 2:08AM
    Remove an item from the bounty that will help base defense, Remove a supposed "BUG" that will make base defense weaker.  I think it's pretty clear here, Kix wants base hits,  I thought they wanted equality between hitting,  it pushes it further away.  smh
  • Joe_B222
    Joe_B222
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 1,200
    retsirf said:
    Remove an item from the bounty that will help base defense, Remove a supposed "BUG" that will make base defense weaker.  I think it's pretty clear here, Kix wants base hits,  I thought they wanted equality between hitting,  it pushes it further away.  smh
    a good base is uncrackable now..   NOT how this game is supposed to work.

    as for the counter bug we are talking about here,  it is game wide..  PvP and PvE.. while I do not think it is that big of a big, I guess the devs do.

  • ZERO aka Jack
    ZERO aka Jack
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 415
    I have no confidence in Kixeye to address this issue. Absolutely no confidence at all. Kixeye have said that going forward they are about PLAYER FIRST. This correction is very likely to screw over the few remaining players left. I would say this fix is just ANOTHER NAIL IN THE COFFIN for the game and one of the few remaining COIN GRAB opportunities for Kixeye.
    Reduce the cost of this game. Then I might play more and spend more. Yes spend more. Because right now spending a lot gets you nowhere.
  • Milo-Ant
    Milo-Ant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 1,172
    Thanks for this!  Time to own your mistakes and let the community know you are working on a fix while I think that 20 days to put the fix in is too slow this is a positive step and I hope to see many more post like this maybe even a master list of all non exploitable problems with priorities and tentative fix dates. 
    obviously not read it then?
  • Milo-Ant
    Milo-Ant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2017 Posts: 1,172
    Ruube1 said:
    Cpt_Izno said:
    Countermeasures                                   Before Fix                                                           After Fix
    ...
    Elite Countermeasures                           Repeatedly targets all valid projectiles.               Targets missiles & rockets only once.
                                                                                                                                        Repeatedly targets mortars.
    ...

    This mean that you will fix the "bug" , when the MSC gets in range with the elite countermeasure it stop firing completely?
    Or this is another issue that we don't care?
    There is no bug on ECM. When MSC gets close enough its missiles will fly fast enough, 1.1seconds, into target and can not be countered. Or would like to make the MSC fleet totally useles by forcing ECM turret to shoot down all missiles no matter how close they are?
    I have 5 ECMs

    I can assure you they do NOT work...…………..


    How many do you have? to tell me that they do?


    And can you supply a video please?
  • Ruube1
    Ruube1
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 1,380
    Milo-Ant said:
    Ruube1 said:
    Cpt_Izno said:
    Countermeasures                                   Before Fix                                                           After Fix
    ...
    Elite Countermeasures                           Repeatedly targets all valid projectiles.               Targets missiles & rockets only once.
                                                                                                                                        Repeatedly targets mortars.
    ...

    This mean that you will fix the "bug" , when the MSC gets in range with the elite countermeasure it stop firing completely?
    Or this is another issue that we don't care?
    There is no bug on ECM. When MSC gets close enough its missiles will fly fast enough, 1.1seconds, into target and can not be countered. Or would like to make the MSC fleet totally useles by forcing ECM turret to shoot down all missiles no matter how close they are?
    I have 5 ECMs

    I can assure you they do NOT work...…………..


    How many do you have? to tell me that they do?


    And can you supply a video please?
    I will say this again, it does not matter how many ECM you have there, you only need ONE, i say this again ONE to counter those missile. Missiles from 5xMSC driven in group will get all of their missiles splashed out. In this video, i have 2xECM in my base, attacker has low projectile speed on hes MSC. I hope this video answers some of your questions, if it does not... Do your own tests and make a video of them. All you need is 2xMSC ships with different projectile speeds on them and you should be able to see the difference very easily.


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