New MC armours. are they worth it?

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Spack
Spack
Master Tactician
Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 2,202
So as George kindly pointed out on the TFC page with his spreadsheet calcs fully juiced exe2's and howies are doing about 4.6 and 4.9 million damage respectively to your hulls.

Here's the math for each turret, corrected for 50% turret defence, I'll leave it to you folks to decipher what it means but all are tested and correct.

EXE2 : 374766/2*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^8*1.31*1.25*1.5/2 = 4469481 (static damage as exe2's dont crit)

Howie : 106738*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^6*1.85*4/2 = 4908910 (on a critical hit)



Now given the max deflections you can get with 2 MCII's and 3MC1's is circa 4 million ballistic and penetrating



What this means that even with those refits you're going to be killed in seconds against a decently made base with your missile cruisers. You could try throwing on a few nightmares to up your penetrating deflection but howies are still going to eat you up. Also notice that your deflections in other areas are zero and as most folks have explosive/corrosive/concussive and radioactive on their guard fleets it means you are literally going to be torn a new one if you try and rush past and in most cases with remote targeting on wardens even when you sit still. 

What this means is rather simple. Base hitting, as it has been for the last few weeks is dead. You might find a few folks that haven't figured out to choose ballistic/missile faction and get 5 fire supports round their correctly built turrets but on the whole that's what its' going to be. farming those who don't know better. As things stand the next bounty is going to be a raid event slugging out replica bases. Not the top ones because they will have buffed turrets I might add.

I would politely suggest to all you don't waste tokens and coin on refits and wait till the powers that be figure out how much they've miscalculated. I know I will not be partaking in the next bounty as things stand and would question the sanity of anyone who does. At some point we should stop rewarding incompetence.
DESTRO said: 
The Almighty Spack

KIXEYE Swag said:
Spack is actually my Tyler Durden.
  • iwona.esser.1
    iwona.esser.1
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 1,565
    Completely agree. Hitting challenging bases is one of the most fun parts of the game and we haven't been able to do that for a while now because most decent bases are impossible.
    ------------------------------------------------------
  • Piratekiller_BOB
    Piratekiller_BOB
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2014 Posts: 511
    Yeah, math is right! But, with bounty coming we may want to add some to our fleets! Not ever base has all 8 Pen tier 7 turrets and/or all 6 ballistic tier 7 turrets! Good write up. Glad I'm not a slacker!

  • Spack
    Spack
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 2,202
    if you choose to add mcII to your fleet and forgo the U armour you will take significantly more damage in replica bases from the guard fleets. Trust me.

    DESTRO said: 
    The Almighty Spack

    KIXEYE Swag said:
    Spack is actually my Tyler Durden.
  • VvVvVvVvV
    VvVvVvVvV
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2012 Posts: 995
    George's numbers assume you have all 5 of the Fire Support auras -- which is not easy to achieve. You might get two, maybe three --- 

    so the 1.15^5 should probably only be 1.15^3, making it harder to get to the magic number. 




    Battle Pirates -- 5 minutes of game play, 12 hours of repair

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  • kixeyeuser_1388071458472_100007337681052
    kixeyeuser_1388071458472_100007337681052
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2015 Posts: 157
    So the armor would only be an improvement to the Defender hulls?

  • Spack
    Spack
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 2,202
    edited 15 May 2018, 10:41PM
    I have 7 turrets with full fire support. The point is you only need 2 to keep fleets out. Templars numbers don't lie :)

    DESTRO said: 
    The Almighty Spack

    KIXEYE Swag said:
    Spack is actually my Tyler Durden.
  • BadVenomHurricane
    BadVenomHurricane
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2016 Posts: 666
    So the armor would only be an improvement to the Defender hulls?

    Improved from dying one shot to 3 shots lol
  • Dario Wilkowski
    Dario Wilkowski
    Master Tactician
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 2,176
    edited 15 May 2018, 11:33PM
    Spack said:
    So as George kindly pointed out on the TFC page with his spreadsheet calcs fully juiced exe2's and howies are doing about 4.6 and 4.9 million damage respectively to your hulls.

    Here's the math for each turret, corrected for 50% turret defence, I'll leave it to you folks to decipher what it means but all are tested and correct.

    EXE2 : 374766/2*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^8*1.31*1.25*1.5/2 = 4469481 (static damage as exe2's dont crit)

    Howie : 106738*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^6*1.85*4/2 = 4908910 (on a critical hit)



    Now given the max deflections you can get with 2 MCII's and 3MC1's is circa 4 million ballistic and penetrating



    What this means that even with those refits you're going to be killed in seconds against a decently made base with your missile cruisers. You could try throwing on a few nightmares to up your penetrating deflection but howies are still going to eat you up. Also notice that your deflections in other areas are zero and as most folks have explosive/corrosive/concussive and radioactive on their guard fleets it means you are literally going to be torn a new one if you try and rush past and in most cases with remote targeting on wardens even when you sit still. 

    What this means is rather simple. Base hitting, as it has been for the last few weeks is dead. You might find a few folks that haven't figured out to choose ballistic/missile faction and get 5 fire supports round their correctly built turrets but on the whole that's what its' going to be. farming those who don't know better. As things stand the next bounty is going to be a raid event slugging out replica bases. Not the top ones because they will have buffed turrets I might add.

    I would politely suggest to all you don't waste tokens and coin on refits and wait till the powers that be figure out how much they've miscalculated. I know I will not be partaking in the next bounty as things stand and would question the sanity of anyone who does. At some point we should stop rewarding incompetence.
    Been looking at your math and dont know where you came up at the end with *4? As far as ive been calc it should be *3(crit), unless i miss something , so please tell me.
    Howie : 106738*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^6*1.85*3/2 = 3681682 (on a critical hit)
  • Ice_DS
    Ice_DS
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2012 Posts: 345
    Spack said:
    So as George kindly pointed out on the TFC page with his spreadsheet calcs fully juiced exe2's and howies are doing about 4.6 and 4.9 million damage respectively to your hulls.

    Here's the math for each turret, corrected for 50% turret defence, I'll leave it to you folks to decipher what it means but all are tested and correct.

    EXE2 : 374766/2*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^8*1.31*1.25*1.5/2 = 4469481 (static damage as exe2's dont crit)

    Howie : 106738*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^6*1.85*4/2 = 4908910 (on a critical hit)



    Now given the max deflections you can get with 2 MCII's and 3MC1's is circa 4 million ballistic and penetrating



    What this means that even with those refits you're going to be killed in seconds against a decently made base with your missile cruisers. You could try throwing on a few nightmares to up your penetrating deflection but howies are still going to eat you up. Also notice that your deflections in other areas are zero and as most folks have explosive/corrosive/concussive and radioactive on their guard fleets it means you are literally going to be torn a new one if you try and rush past and in most cases with remote targeting on wardens even when you sit still. 

    What this means is rather simple. Base hitting, as it has been for the last few weeks is dead. You might find a few folks that haven't figured out to choose ballistic/missile faction and get 5 fire supports round their correctly built turrets but on the whole that's what its' going to be. farming those who don't know better. As things stand the next bounty is going to be a raid event slugging out replica bases. Not the top ones because they will have buffed turrets I might add.

    I would politely suggest to all you don't waste tokens and coin on refits and wait till the powers that be figure out how much they've miscalculated. I know I will not be partaking in the next bounty as things stand and would question the sanity of anyone who does. At some point we should stop rewarding incompetence.
    Been looking at your math and dont know where you came up at the end with *4? As far as ive been calc it should be *3(crit), unless i miss something , so please tell me.
    Howie : 106738*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^6*1.85*3/2 = 3681682 (on a critical hit)
    100% crit hit would be Double damage *2
    200% crit hit would be tripple damage  *3
    300% crit hit would be quad damage    *4
  • Shapu_the_farm
    Shapu_the_farm
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2015 Posts: 1,953
    edited 15 May 2018, 11:42PM
    Spack said:
    So as George kindly pointed out on the TFC page with his spreadsheet calcs fully juiced exe2's and howies are doing about 4.6 and 4.9 million damage respectively to your hulls.

    Here's the math for each turret, corrected for 50% turret defence, I'll leave it to you folks to decipher what it means but all are tested and correct.

    EXE2 : 374766/2*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^8*1.31*1.25*1.5/2 = 4469481 (static damage as exe2's dont crit)

    Howie : 106738*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^6*1.85*4/2 = 4908910 (on a critical hit)



    Now given the max deflections you can get with 2 MCII's and 3MC1's is circa 4 million ballistic and penetrating



    What this means that even with those refits you're going to be killed in seconds against a decently made base with your missile cruisers. You could try throwing on a few nightmares to up your penetrating deflection but howies are still going to eat you up. Also notice that your deflections in other areas are zero and as most folks have explosive/corrosive/concussive and radioactive on their guard fleets it means you are literally going to be torn a new one if you try and rush past and in most cases with remote targeting on wardens even when you sit still. 

    What this means is rather simple. Base hitting, as it has been for the last few weeks is dead. You might find a few folks that haven't figured out to choose ballistic/missile faction and get 5 fire supports round their correctly built turrets but on the whole that's what its' going to be. farming those who don't know better. As things stand the next bounty is going to be a raid event slugging out replica bases. Not the top ones because they will have buffed turrets I might add.

    I would politely suggest to all you don't waste tokens and coin on refits and wait till the powers that be figure out how much they've miscalculated. I know I will not be partaking in the next bounty as things stand and would question the sanity of anyone who does. At some point we should stop rewarding incompetence.
    Been looking at your math and dont know where you came up at the end with *4? As far as ive been calc it should be *3(crit), unless i miss something , so please tell me.
    Howie : 106738*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^6*1.85*3/2 = 3681682 (on a critical hit)
    Doesn't  DU3 Supercharged em rails 3 give +300% for crit?  So that would be the original 100%  crit bonus plus another 300, making for 400%.
  • Dario Wilkowski
    Dario Wilkowski
    Master Tactician
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 2,176
    Spack said:
    So as George kindly pointed out on the TFC page with his spreadsheet calcs fully juiced exe2's and howies are doing about 4.6 and 4.9 million damage respectively to your hulls.

    Here's the math for each turret, corrected for 50% turret defence, I'll leave it to you folks to decipher what it means but all are tested and correct.

    EXE2 : 374766/2*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^8*1.31*1.25*1.5/2 = 4469481 (static damage as exe2's dont crit)

    Howie : 106738*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^6*1.85*4/2 = 4908910 (on a critical hit)



    Now given the max deflections you can get with 2 MCII's and 3MC1's is circa 4 million ballistic and penetrating



    What this means that even with those refits you're going to be killed in seconds against a decently made base with your missile cruisers. You could try throwing on a few nightmares to up your penetrating deflection but howies are still going to eat you up. Also notice that your deflections in other areas are zero and as most folks have explosive/corrosive/concussive and radioactive on their guard fleets it means you are literally going to be torn a new one if you try and rush past and in most cases with remote targeting on wardens even when you sit still. 

    What this means is rather simple. Base hitting, as it has been for the last few weeks is dead. You might find a few folks that haven't figured out to choose ballistic/missile faction and get 5 fire supports round their correctly built turrets but on the whole that's what its' going to be. farming those who don't know better. As things stand the next bounty is going to be a raid event slugging out replica bases. Not the top ones because they will have buffed turrets I might add.

    I would politely suggest to all you don't waste tokens and coin on refits and wait till the powers that be figure out how much they've miscalculated. I know I will not be partaking in the next bounty as things stand and would question the sanity of anyone who does. At some point we should stop rewarding incompetence.
    Been looking at your math and dont know where you came up at the end with *4? As far as ive been calc it should be *3(crit), unless i miss something , so please tell me.
    Howie : 106738*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^6*1.85*3/2 = 3681682 (on a critical hit)
    Doesn't  DU3 Supercharged em rails 3 give +300% for crit?  So that would be the original 100%  crit bonus plus another 300, making for 400%.
    yeah i miss base dmg + 300% thx.
  • rumdaddy
    rumdaddy
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Apr 2016 Posts: 167
    This is a total BS post. I highly suggest that everyone other than SDS7 coin refits tomorrow and see what happens (:P)
  • Louis Kakascik
    Louis Kakascik
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 308
    Why participate or coin in anything now? Kixeye used the old bait and swicth again and now they say they unintentionally had less damage on last raid cycle but kept it. I have heard these lies before and its nice to know some things will not change and thats ceratinly one of them. Kix will l=always lie as they have in the past
  • Hawkpanther
    Hawkpanther
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 1,050
    to lazy to do the math but the armour is still a win. new armour would help to do bases with only 4 T7 ballistic group I figure,  maybe 5.  Not everybody did great in the raid to get turrets. Same thing with missles..could do with less then 8 T7..not sure what the sweet spot is.

    bases with all the toys will be after get new hull in bounty I figure

    Maybe a TLC is coming before bounty with some new tech also.


  • kevin.brown.9638
    kevin.brown.9638
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 124
    to lazy to do the math but the armour is still a win. new armour would help to do bases with only 4 T7 ballistic group I figure,  maybe 5.  Not everybody did great in the raid to get turrets. Same thing with missles..could do with less then 8 T7..not sure what the sweet spot is.

    bases with all the toys will be after get new hull in bounty I figure

    Maybe a TLC is coming before bounty with some new tech also.

    Let me know how you do in bounty if you swap in these new armor and get rid of the U armor. Seeing as nearly every base has corrosive and concussive and rad damage on their turrets/guard fleets. Rad damage especially in them replica bases with the uber'd vanqs.
  • Bo_P
    Bo_P
    Potential Threat
    Joined Nov 2012 Posts: 70
    I don't know anymore, is this game even worth saving, it's been around for quite a while compared to some other games, it's getting so technical that really the fun is gone, all the changes seem to have overwhelmed the developers that they are even confused, so many broken features and the trust between player and company is severely broken and that will not come back overnight
  • CourtneyL
    CourtneyL
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 158

    Good for you Spack. Spelling it out for those who just may not know better.

  • Lady-Jessica
    Lady-Jessica
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 1,925
    while i don't agree with how they went about doing it i for one am happy defenders finally have a leg up on attackers again.
  • rpdnzrp
    rpdnzrp
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2014 Posts: 96
    Lots of threads about this, even I've made one.
    Tl;dr;  damage < deflection = zero damage, damage > deflection = 1 shot. Impossible to balance with their crazy numbers
  • BadVenomHurricane
    BadVenomHurricane
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2016 Posts: 666
    edited 16 May 2018, 8:07AM
    The fact is they designed the new armors around the new hull meaning you are required to have the new hull to beat the howies, however we need to beat the howies to get the stupid new hull, who thought that one through.
  • Spack
    Spack
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 2,202
    forethought clearly isn't in their repertoire. Maybe a machine learning environment would do it better ;p
     
    DESTRO said: 
    The Almighty Spack

    KIXEYE Swag said:
    Spack is actually my Tyler Durden.
  • Chrielas
    Chrielas
    Greenhorn
    Joined Oct 2013 Posts: 18
    I'd be willing to bet the new hull in Bounty will have a higher base deflection so that MC Plate II will get you up over the mark you need to be at to avoid instadeath by the t7 turrets.
  • BadVenomHurricane
    BadVenomHurricane
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2016 Posts: 666
    New ballistic hull will have 1686450 ballistic in line with the other two T7 hulls.
  • Spack
    Spack
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jun 2011 Posts: 2,202
    meaning you can get the ballistic deflection of the new hull to around 5.6 million deflection but by which time we will have two more t7 ballistic turrets meaning your damage output for howitzers will be;

    106738*1.35*1.15^5*1.2*1.25^8*1.85*4 = 7670172

    Your shiny new hull is going to be toast in literally one shot. All your other t7 hulls are going to be utterly useless. Someone really hasn't considered progression in this game. 


    DESTRO said: 
    The Almighty Spack

    KIXEYE Swag said:
    Spack is actually my Tyler Durden.
  • Alpha__Wolf
    Alpha__Wolf
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined May 2015 Posts: 883
    Yea I been telling everyone that thinks grinding npc rep bases will be the way to go think again.They will be twice as hard as last month,and as bounty participation dwindles only the better bases will be copied to replicas.
    TFC Rocks
  • Hawkpanther
    Hawkpanther
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 1,050
    to lazy to do the math but the armour is still a win. new armour would help to do bases with only 4 T7 ballistic group I figure,  maybe 5.  Not everybody did great in the raid to get turrets. Same thing with missles..could do with less then 8 T7..not sure what the sweet spot is.

    bases with all the toys will be after get new hull in bounty I figure

    Maybe a TLC is coming before bounty with some new tech also.

    Let me know how you do in bounty if you swap in these new armor and get rid of the U armor. Seeing as nearly every base has corrosive and concussive and rad damage on their turrets/guard fleets. Rad damage especially in them replica bases with the uber'd vanqs.
    never said anything about removing D6U armour...2 MC2 + 2MC1 + D6U I will be able to crack more bases then I can now but not all bases or is that armour set up not good enough to eat 4 howies with no blunderbuss 2s in base & 4 executioner 2s not boosted by both 2 vultures & 2 halos?

  • John1975
    John1975
    Master Tactician
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 2,318
    Wish kix would realize there is a whole area to play in thats right in th emiddle of no damage/instant kill.  No one wants Instant kill and no one want no damage dealing at all. Yet that is all we get over and over instant kill  then no damage then instant kill.  Cut that stuff out get to the middle of the 2.

    Take the Howies/ex2 for example   They could have said ok we want this to deal 500 damage.  Forget spec etx.  500 damage less the 50% resistance  they need 1000 damage to go to ship.  Ship has 2 mill deflection means turret should do 2,001,000.    That delivers the 500 to the ship.   With specials and bonus FS etc  wouldnt instant kill but would still do a good chunk of damage.


    All anyone wants is for Item they build to actually do some damage so it cant simply be ignored. I dont think anyone wants something that is going to kill a ship in 2 shots thats not very reasonable.    

    BadMoFo RYFG TTMX Level 97
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