So about that Xeno Surge Beam range...

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Daniel Rose
Daniel Rose
Strike-force Captain
Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
Rupture Beam: 2750m + 1200m (Beam Capacitor) = 3950m
Xeno Rupture Beam: 4000m
Twinfire Beam: 3000m + 1200m (Beam Capacitor) = 4200m
Xeno Twinfire Beam: 4250m
Surge Beam: 2000m + 1200m (Beam Capacitor) = 3200m
Xeno Surge Beam: 2000m

Spot the difference? The reason Xeno beam variants always have a large base range is because they can't get one from an specials. This also applies to the Xeno Surge Beam. So it essentially has 1200m less range than its Energy variants. That's...not great. And while it does have 131 DPS more than the Heavy variant, it also has 1312 tons more mass.

Either this is an oversight, or a special is intended to be released that will apply a range boost to Beam types as a whole. Or they intend on changing the Beam Overcharge Capacitor to include a 1200m range boost. That wouldn't be a half bad idea, seeing as in its current state it's about as useful as Brimestone Torpedoes. R.I.P. was too young, Kix why you nerf already crappy weapon? (ಥ﹏ಥ)

But that's off topic. The point I'm trying to get across is that *cough* @CM_Lee *cough* the Xeno Surge Beam should really have a base range of 3250m, following in line with all the other Xeno beam weapons. It'll still have one of the lowest ranges of any weapon (considering it can't be boosted by specials), but then it might actually be worth grinding for.
Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Coelus
    Coelus
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jul 2015 Posts: 1,200

    I think its an oversight too, and wouldnt be surprised. However, kix doesnt work in linierity, just look at all the build/fit/craft/research timers. So i also wiuldnt be surprised if it was intentional for some arbitrary irrational reason.


  • Coelus
    Coelus
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jul 2015 Posts: 1,200

    Another example, why are only the cruisers xeno weapons reusable tokens, yet all the other xeno weapons are BPs. There is no reason. I bet the slipped up and had to just go w it so they didnt look incompetent again.


  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
    Coelus said:

    Another example, why are only the cruisers xeno weapons reusable tokens, yet all the other xeno weapons are BPs. There is no reason. I bet the slipped up and had to just go w it so they didnt look incompetent again.

    I think that was intentional. They made cruisers the most powerful ships, and their Xeno weapons are some of the most powerful as well. By making them reusable items instead of BPs, they force players to grind events or pay lots of money to get a large enough supply of them.
    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Revann
    Revann
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 2,399

    Quick, build a whole bunch of ships with it equipped so when they give it mega range you’re not behind the power curve.

    -Git Gud 
  • Aletheides
    Aletheides
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Dec 2015 Posts: 1,898
    Coelus said:

    Another example, why are only the cruisers xeno weapons reusable tokens, yet all the other xeno weapons are BPs. There is no reason. I bet the slipped up and had to just go w it so they didnt look incompetent again.

    I think that was intentional. They made cruisers the most powerful ships, and their Xeno weapons are some of the most powerful as well. By making them reusable items instead of BPs, they force players to grind events or pay lots of money to get a large enough supply of them.
    Indeed. Cruisers were intended to be damage tanks not damage dealers. As with many Kixeye design decisions it didn't exactly play out as intended :P So it seems like they took the heavy weapons, Which are always reusables, and put alien damage type on them for cruisers essentially skipping the tier 4 version. The refit time of these weapons compared to other heavy weapons points at this as well.
  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
    I brought this up earlier and they have noted this issue.
    Thanks buddy
    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Sequestor
    Sequestor
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Aug 2013 Posts: 1,124
    I suspect it is intended to allow surge cavaliers to automatically stay under the minimum range of enemy missile paragons.
  • Gary P
    Gary P
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Oct 2016 Posts: 1,204

    @Sequestor said:
    I suspect it is intended to allow surge cavaliers to automatically stay under the minimum range of enemy missile paragons.

    Agree, why i won't put beam cap on my cavaliers for that exact reason, without I am staying under the min range so can't be hit as long as no other enemy ship close by.

  • Dlux Flux
    Dlux Flux
    Greenhorn
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 11
    I brought this up earlier and they have noted this issue.
    There was an update last night and your last update was they they "noted it" but are there any plans on changing this to align the range with other Xeno variants compared to their energy weapon counter part?

    I'm wondering if I am wasting time crafting this weapon and mounting them on cutters. (While also finding a reason that cutters are of any use.
  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
    Dlux Flux said:
    I brought this up earlier and they have noted this issue.
    There was an update last night and your last update was they they "noted it" but are there any plans on changing this to align the range with other Xeno variants compared to their energy weapon counter part?

    I'm wondering if I am wasting time crafting this weapon and mounting them on cutters. (While also finding a reason that cutters are of any use.
    They aren't, but they are fun to use. I have used pretty much only cutters since the start of T6 and am barely keeping up, but at least its more exciting than using cruisers for literally everything :P
    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Revann
    Revann
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 2,399

    @Daniel Rose said:
    Dlux Flux said:


    Cyrus Leung said:

    I brought this up earlier and they have noted this issue.

    There was an update last night and your last update was they they "noted it" but are there any plans on changing this to align the range with other Xeno variants compared to their energy weapon counter part?

    I'm wondering if I am wasting time crafting this weapon and mounting them on cutters. (While also finding a reason that cutters are of any use.

    They aren't, but they are fun to use. I have used pretty much only cutters since the start of T6 and am barely keeping up, but at least its more exciting than using cruisers for literally everything :P

    How is it more exciting? It’s the same point and click just with less armor

    -Git Gud 
  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
    Revann said:

    @Daniel Rose said:
    Dlux Flux said:


    Cyrus Leung said:

    I brought this up earlier and they have noted this issue.

    There was an update last night and your last update was they they "noted it" but are there any plans on changing this to align the range with other Xeno variants compared to their energy weapon counter part?

    I'm wondering if I am wasting time crafting this weapon and mounting them on cutters. (While also finding a reason that cutters are of any use.

    They aren't, but they are fun to use. I have used pretty much only cutters since the start of T6 and am barely keeping up, but at least its more exciting than using cruisers for literally everything :P

    How is it more exciting? It’s the same point and click just with less armor

    It's more exciting because it's actually a challenge and when you take down a high level target, you get the satisfaction of having beaten something that has the odds stacked against you. And it's point and click with literally every ship in this game because that's the control scheme so I'm not sure what you are getting at there O.o Actually that's not true, cruisers aren't point and click, they're just sit back and watch ;)
    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
    I know this thread is a bit old, but I figure it's better to post again on here instead of making another thread on the exact same topic. I know @Cyrus Leung said that he brought this up and the team "noted the issue" But there have been several updates to the game since then and the range has not been changed. So it has to be asked: @CM_Lee, is there any intention of fixing the Xeno Surge Beam's range to allign with the other Xeno Beam weapons? Thank you.
    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Zero Calling
    Zero Calling
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 1,127
    edited 19 Jun 2018, 10:42AM
    I know this thread is a bit old, but I figure it's better to post again on here instead of making another thread on the exact same topic. I know @Cyrus Leung said that he brought this up and the team "noted the issue" But there have been several updates to the game since then and the range has not been changed. So it has to be asked: @CM_Lee, is there any intention of fixing the Xeno Surge Beam's range to allign with the other Xeno Beam weapons? Thank you.
    PMed CM_Lee about this. We'll see how it goes.
    Zᴇʀᴏ Cᴀʟʟɪɴɢ ɪs ɴᴏ ᴍᴏʀᴇ. Sᴇᴇ ʏᴏᴜ ɪɴ VEGA Cᴏɴғʟɪᴄᴛ!

  • Revann
    Revann
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 2,399

    Oooooh noooooo, not a necropost, QUICK #VOIDSUMMONINGJUTSU

    -Git Gud 
  • Time Manager
    Time Manager
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 152

    Actually I find this relevant. I have more xeno surge parts than I ever wanted, and I'll never use them due to this range.

    Can we please get some insight on this matter?

  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
    Revann said:

    Oooooh noooooo, not a necropost, QUICK #VOIDSUMMONINGJUTSU

    Would you rather I make an entirely new post saying the exact same thing? And it's only a little over a month since I originally made this thread. I wanted to wait after a few updates before asking this again because it obviously takes time before something like this will be changed (can only happen after a downtime, which is traditionally once a month) and I think patience over spam is a good philosophy to live on. :P
    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Got No Coin
    Got No Coin
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2013 Posts: 589
    Depending on what you want to do with your cutters, I like the short range. My intention is to use them against alien battleships by click targeting. The shorter range allows them to get inside the firing range of the battleships rather than stopping short because of the longer range. I can send them off to "auto" kill while I pilot the other ships.
  • Revann
    Revann
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 2,399

    @Daniel Rose said:
    Revann said:

    Oooooh noooooo, not a necropost, QUICK #VOIDSUMMONINGJUTSU

    Would you rather I make an entirely new post saying the exact same thing? And it's only a little over a month since I originally made this thread. I wanted to wait after a few updates before asking this again because it obviously takes time before something like this will be changed (can only happen after a downtime, which is traditionally once a month) and I think patience over spam is a good philosophy to live on. :P

    YES, yes I would. That’s the policy, they always and I do mean ALWAYS, come around and close threads that are more than a month old and still receiving comments

    -Git Gud 
  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
    edited 20 Jun 2018, 6:47PM
    Revann said:

    @Daniel Rose said:
    Revann said:

    Oooooh noooooo, not a necropost, QUICK #VOIDSUMMONINGJUTSU

    Would you rather I make an entirely new post saying the exact same thing? And it's only a little over a month since I originally made this thread. I wanted to wait after a few updates before asking this again because it obviously takes time before something like this will be changed (can only happen after a downtime, which is traditionally once a month) and I think patience over spam is a good philosophy to live on. :P

    YES, yes I would. That’s the policy, they always and I do mean ALWAYS, come around and close threads that are more than a month old and still receiving comments

    That's...false. Why make an identical thread when already exists about still relevant information? And they don't always close threads that are more than a month old. An example of this is the "*New* TopGear Vega Ship Calc" which is 3 years old and still receiving comments. A thread is not inherently bad just because it is old. The reason they close necro threads is because they are often about old topics and filled with irrelevant information that no longer applies to the game in its current state. That cannot be said about this thread, which is why I don't think it will be closed on account of being a "necro thread". That, and the fact that Cyrus liked my more recent post, implying that I'm in the clear. I understand that you are trying to keep the forums clean and and bring the moderators' attention to threads that jeopardize that, but this thread is not one such thread.
    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Saladman
    Saladman
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Sep 2016 Posts: 425

    Anyways.... Zeno surge range? Will it be "fixed".

  • treecats
    treecats
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Dec 2013 Posts: 138
    Actually, I would prefer not get fixed.  As "Sequestor" said, this will allow Cutter stay inside range limit against Paragon Battleship.

    Also, for those of you complaining not using the Xeno version who has a lot of fragments.  Let me know give you a reason to use it. 
    Xeno Surge Beam is crafted as instant credit, so you can instantly refit on your cutter, if you choose Heavy Surge beam 3, it will take over 1 day and 3 hours per weapon slot. if you have mk5 Cavalier with 7 weapon slots, that will take you 7 days and 21 hours.  

    Though I recall Xeno Surge beam crafting time is about 1 day each. Still, I assume you want to always keep ship refit time as low as possible.

    Hope this will help you to make the decision.  I do have Xeno Surge beams on all my Cavalier Cutters.
  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
    treecats said:
    Actually, I would prefer not get fixed.  As "Sequestor" said, this will allow Cutter stay inside range limit against Paragon Battleship.

    Also, for those of you complaining not using the Xeno version who has a lot of fragments.  Let me know give you a reason to use it. 
    Xeno Surge Beam is crafted as instant credit, so you can instantly refit on your cutter, if you choose Heavy Surge beam 3, it will take over 1 day and 3 hours per weapon slot. if you have mk5 Cavalier with 7 weapon slots, that will take you 7 days and 21 hours.  

    Though I recall Xeno Surge beam crafting time is about 1 day each. Still, I assume you want to always keep ship refit time as low as possible.

    Hope this will help you to make the decision.  I do have Xeno Surge beams on all my Cavalier Cutters.
    It does allow the Cutter to stay inside the Paragon range arc for the Altarian Regiments, but that is the only time it is useful, and you can achieve the same thing by just piloting them in close. Against everything else, the lower range is a huge hindrance and results in the weapon preforming far worse.
    Saladman said:

    Anyways.... Zeno surge range? Will it be "fixed".

    Judging by the lack of response to this, I doubt it, despite the fact that it would only take a matter of minutes to fix (all the have to do is go in and change a single range value.)
    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
    @CM_Lee Can we get an official statement on this please? We've heard nothing about this from anyone. The only person who has said anything was Cyrus, who said he brought it up and the game team noted this, but that was a long time ago and we've seen nothing about that from them. All I'm asking for is a "Yes, this is recognized as a discrepancy and will be addressed soon" or a "No, this is intended/not something that is going to be changed." Please.
    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
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    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769
    Lower range means less room for the firing arc to spread. Put this on a ship class like cutters which have the narrowest firing arc of any ship and despite having one of the fastest turning speeds, some ships are literally too fast to hit, such as the Altairian Mothership Corvettes. It also means that keeping targets inside the firing arc for the entire beam duration is more difficult, which substantially lowers the effective DPS of the weapon. That plus a much higher mass more than makes up for the 164 DPS difference between the Xeno Surge Beam and the Xeno Twinfire Beam. My point is that T7 weapons should be not only better, but substantially better, than T6.5 weapons, but in this case, I'm not sure it's even better at all. The normal Surge Beam and Heavy Surge Beam are certainly better than their Twinfire counterparts, but because the Xeno Surge Beam's range is so ridiculously low, it makes the Xeno Twinfire Beam a better alternative. The T7 cutters are bad enough as it is, do you really need to make their weapon bad too? Again, any sort of response would be appreciated and would at least confirm that I'm not just talking to thin air.
    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Coelus
    Coelus
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jul 2015 Posts: 1,200
    i just find it really funny its been 3mo or more and @CM_Lee still hasnt even bothered to pretend to acknowledge the inquiry. bare minimum guys...


  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 769

    @Coelus said:
    i just find it really funny its been 3mo or more and @CM_Lee still hasnt even bothered to pretend to acknowledge the inquiry. bare minimum guys...

    It'd be funny if it weren't so sad and disappointing.

    Please, if you are going to reply to my posts, do not make the mistake of attacking me personally instead of my arguments. By the same token, do
    not take anything I reply as an attack on you personally. I bear no ill will towards anyone.

  • Cyrus Leung
    Cyrus Leung
    VC Mod
    Joined Jan 2013 Posts: 3,536

    @Daniel Rose said:

    @Coelus said:
    i just find it really funny its been 3mo or more and @CM_Lee still hasnt even bothered to pretend to acknowledge the inquiry. bare minimum guys...

    It'd be funny if it weren't so sad and disappointing.

    This is but one item on the to-do list, no idea when they will get to this. ;)

  • LilBasterd
    LilBasterd
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Mar 2018 Posts: 1,320

    @Coelus said:
    i just find it really funny its been 3mo or more and @CM_Lee still hasnt even bothered to pretend to acknowledge the inquiry. bare minimum guys...

    He is an artist responding here and there , but with no real news or answers, he is a top level politician honestly.

    Sealcorps is my biggest fan, ty Sealcorps  for always reading what i write. :)
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