drakon tech Question

Deacons
Deacons
Strike-force Captain
Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 710
which will make the drakon fire faster the 40% faster charge or the 50% faster fire rate ? i dont understand how if it charges faster but the fire rate is still slow how can it fire faster and if it fires faster but it is not charged in time the same . other units had a slot for faster reload speed and faster rate of fire so would make it work . i dont get how this tech can help. 
  • Perry299
    Perry299
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 1,950

    @Deacons said:
    which will make the drakon fire faster the 40% faster charge or the 50% faster fire rate ? i dont understand how if it charges faster but the fire rate is still slow how can it fire faster and if it fires faster but it is not charged in time the same . other units had a slot for faster reload speed and faster rate of fire so would make it work . i dont get how this tech can help. 

    When its charged it fires.... speeding up the charge time means its ready to shoot faster

    "Don't cry, Don't whine, it's a strategic game so either you GIT GUD or you Go Home"
  • Deacons
    Deacons
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 710
    Perry299 said:

    @Deacons said:
    which will make the drakon fire faster the 40% faster charge or the 50% faster fire rate ? i dont understand how if it charges faster but the fire rate is still slow how can it fire faster and if it fires faster but it is not charged in time the same . other units had a slot for faster reload speed and faster rate of fire so would make it work . i dont get how this tech can help. 

    When its charged it fires.... speeding up the charge time means its ready to shoot faster

    so 50% faster fire rate does nothing because it wont be charged ?
  • StaimB
    StaimB
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 623
    edited 10 Dec 2017, 8:45AM
    Its hard to describe, i'll try anyways.

    the charge time is the time from stop running till the first shot come from the Drakon. So if you reduce this time, he'll start the first shot faster after stop walking.

    increasing the fire rate decrease the time between the shots, so its reduce the time between shot 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and so on.
    So his plasma-orbs have a higher shooting frequenzy.
  • Perry299
    Perry299
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 1,950

    @StaimB said:
    Its hard to describe, i'll try anyways.

    the charge time is the time from stop running till the first shot come from the Drakon. So if you reduce this time, he'll start the first shot faster after stop walking.

    increasing the fire rate decrease the time between the shots, so its reduce the time between shot 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and so on.
    So his plasma-balls have a higher shooting frequenzy.

    Haha you said balls

    "Don't cry, Don't whine, it's a strategic game so either you GIT GUD or you Go Home"
  • Jason Ensinger
    Jason Ensinger
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 3,221
    Charge time is basically reload for weapons that charge, and therefore don't have their actual reload rate displayed. Fire rate only effects the increased clip size that comes with the tech, causing time between the first and second shot after charging to be decreased. They probably result in roughly the same DPS increase like Vindicator's reload or burst tech.
  • lolwut1337
    lolwut1337
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2015 Posts: 439
    edited 7 Dec 2017, 6:02PM
    Not sure about charge up time. At first I though it's reload time, others say it's the delay time between targeting and actually shooting projectile. No plan on leveling/testing it anytime soon.

    For fire rate, it currently has no effect (or barely any) on drakon.
    I fail to notice any difference between 2 drakons with level 1 (+1 clip size| no fire rate bonus) and level 3 (+1 clip size| +50% fire rate) surge injector respectively.
  • Deacons
    Deacons
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 710
    ty all for your answer`s.   . i guess kix just want us to have more things to farm and upgrade then if they  basically do the same thing 
  • nametagg0
    nametagg0
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2016 Posts: 1,331

    From what I understand the charge up tech allows it to fire faster. But the rof tech allows it to shoot more (then only the splash damage tech is worth anything from there)

    Photo:
  • StaimB
    StaimB
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 623
    Seems like something that need to be tested. ^^
  • Axel L
    Axel L
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 6,162
    The charge time and fire rate do actually have 2 different meanings.
    • Rate of Fire are the time between 2 shots in a single clip
    • Reload Speed is the time between firing 2 shots in a clip.
    • Charge time is the time it takes for the unit to fire a shot when it starts to shoot one at the target.
    The main thing you need to take into consideration is how you are going to use your units. A faster charge time will reduce the amount of time for the unit to deal the alpha strike as the charge time is reduced which means that the shoot will be highly likely to hit the target from a further distance. On the other hand, a high fire rate in this case is great if you want to take down a lot of individual targets quickly.
    Video games don't cause violence, lag does.
  • MX36
    MX36
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 2,772
    I have no idea how charge-up time is defined in KIXEYE's universe. but it's present in all energy damage units like Purifiers, Cyclops, Disruptors, Drakons, and Legendary Laser Tanks.
    It's not shown in the UI like the rest of stats. maybe because they need to make room for it first.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    if you calculate the total time backwards (clip cycle) of Ardra for example: 

    Clip Cycle = DPR / DPS
    Clip Cycle = 900,000 / 705,882
    Clip Cycle = 1.275 seconds
    After subtracting the known values of zero reload and 0.025 shot time (RoF).. we have a remaining of 1.25 seconds as charge-up time, which is the exact charge-up value WT posted in the unit re-balance thread a few months ago. [LINK]  calculating the same thing for: 

    Disruptor

    Clip Cycle = DPR / DPS
    Clip Cycle = 22,000 / 4,378
    Clip Cycle = 5.025 seconds
    After subtracting the known values of 4 seconds reload time and 0.025 seconds shot time (RoF).. we have a remaining of exactly 1 second which is probably the charge-up time.

    Drakon

    Clip Cycle = DPR / DPS
    Clip Cycle = 350,000 / 115,702
    Clip Cycle = 3.025 seconds
    after subtracting the known values of 2 seconds reload time and 0.025 seconds shot time (RoF).. we have a remaining of exactly 1 second

    Here's a comparison between a Drakon with Surge 3 and another one with no tech:


    Here's a comparison between all three levels of the Surge Injector.. grouped together in one spot with the [A] command, to make sure their shots are synced:   

    this is a troll move by KIXEYE! the double shot is practical, but increasing RoF of a sniper unit or anything with a clip size of 1 is barely noticeable, and irrelevant.

    I can't use the videos to find the exact timing of each shot, because KIXEYE have ***** with something and now many attack sounds are not working (available)/ .. and I don't know how to account for this value for clip size > 1.. is it calculated for each shot, or treated like the reload time? hopefully someone from KIXEYE can explain this to us.
    image
  • Strong_Thinker
    Strong_Thinker
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined May 2013 Posts: 951
    edited 8 Dec 2017, 7:07PM
    looking at the videos id assume theres between @MX36 ; has provided id say there was a second delay between first shot and then the 2nd shot being fired.
    For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven
  • TroyW
    TroyW
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jan 2013 Posts: 3,496
    edited 10 Dec 2017, 2:16AM
    MX36 said:
    Here's a comparison between a Drakon with Surge 3 and another one with no tech:


    This is only half of the needed test..... We see the 1st shot from both and the 2nd shot from the one with the 2 clip tech.... and we do see there is a time period between the 1st & 2nd shot.

     However, what I really need to see in the test is if they both still fire the first round of the second volley at the same time!
    WAR COMMANDER WIKIA
    Lead Administrator
  • TroyW
    TroyW
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jan 2013 Posts: 3,496
    edited 10 Dec 2017, 2:19AM
    None of this would be a problem if the POP-UP INFORMATION was DYNAMIC not STATIC, so the numbers would change based on the tech added to the unit. This would make things 1000% easier for players to make decisions.
    WAR COMMANDER WIKIA
    Lead Administrator
  • MX36
    MX36
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 2,772
    @TroyW ;
    Comparison between one with a level 3 Rapid Injector (-40% Charge Time) and one with no tech:

    An idle Drakon with Rapid Injector charges and fires faster than a normal one. the tech is useless when firing at a high-HP target that needs too many shots to kill, and when the unit is stationary or inside a bunker.

    Comparison between the above ^ two Drakons in a Stronghold:  

    Both videos were synced using the first shock as a mark to see whose shot hit the target first. results were the same for both of them!

    Comparison between one with a level 3 Surge Injector (2 clip +50% RoF) and one with no tech:

    The normal (no tech) Drakon fires the first round of the second volley before the SurgeX3
    image
  • StaimB
    StaimB
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Nov 2013 Posts: 623
    Perry299 said:

    @StaimB said:
    Its hard to describe, i'll try anyways.

    the charge time is the time from stop running till the first shot come from the Drakon. So if you reduce this time, he'll start the first shot faster after stop walking.

    increasing the fire rate decrease the time between the shots, so its reduce the time between shot 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and so on.
    So his plasma-balls have a higher shooting frequenzy.

    Haha you said balls

    Typical mistake from german to english, sry. xD I make a "orb" out of it.
  • Hadiiiii
    Hadiiiii
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2016 Posts: 80
    40%+ charge time : 
    Let's say it takes 10 seconds to reload a charge and shoot, with this tech it will be 6 seconds, so 10 charges every minute.

    +2 Clip size : 
    Same as above but it will fire 2 charges every 10 seconds, so that 12 charges every minute, BUT,  it will start timing the 10 seconds from the second shoot.

    So, they do the same Damage Per Second, it's just they are both for different tactics .
    free repair is the most stupid thing in the game .. FFS LET IT OUT OFF YOUR HEAD
  • Hadiiiii
    Hadiiiii
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2016 Posts: 80
    40%+ charge time : 
    Let's say it takes 10 seconds to reload a charge and shoot, with this tech it will be 6 seconds, so 10 charges every minute.

    +2 Clip size : 
    Same as above but it will fire 2 charges every 10 seconds, so that 12 charges every minute, BUT,  it will start timing the 10 seconds from the second shoot.

    So, they do the same Damage Per Second, it's just they are both for different tactics .
    free repair is the most stupid thing in the game .. FFS LET IT OUT OFF YOUR HEAD
  • nametagg0
    nametagg0
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Jan 2016 Posts: 1,331

    @TroyW said:
    None of this would be a problem if the POP-UP INFORMATION was DYNAMIC not STATIC, so the numbers would change based on the tech added to the unit.

    This would make things 1000% easier for players to make decisions.

    That might be to complicated for kixeye programmers, they already struggle to keep the basics together.

    Photo:
  • Sirenity
    Sirenity
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 591
    Hadiiiii said:
    40%+ charge time : 
    Let's say it takes 10 seconds to reload a charge and shoot, with this tech it will be 6 seconds, so 10 charges every minute.

    +2 Clip size : 
    Same as above but it will fire 2 charges every 10 seconds, so that 12 charges every minute, BUT,  it will start timing the 10 seconds from the second shoot.

    So, they do the same Damage Per Second, it's just they are both for different tactics .
    What would be the best tech if you were to put one in a bunker?
  • Hadiiiii
    Hadiiiii
    Potential Threat
    Joined Aug 2016 Posts: 80
    Sirenity said:
    Hadiiiii said:
    40%+ charge time : 
    Let's say it takes 10 seconds to reload a charge and shoot, with this tech it will be 6 seconds, so 10 charges every minute.

    +2 Clip size : 
    Same as above but it will fire 2 charges every 10 seconds, so that 12 charges every minute, BUT,  it will start timing the 10 seconds from the second shoot.

    So, they do the same Damage Per Second, it's just they are both for different tactics .
    What would be the best tech if you were to put one in a bunker?
    +2 Clip sizr
    free repair is the most stupid thing in the game .. FFS LET IT OUT OFF YOUR HEAD
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