Seige bat 3 and 4 bugged

REDBEARD478
REDBEARD478
Minor Nuisance
Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 248
Hi

As i fear i am getting no-where with customer service or the ''experts''(****...shock, horror). I am going to make this bug public here. Do not use seige bat 3 or 4 on any of your hulls, if these specials are on they need refit imediately for either garrison battery or frontline counter sys as these are the only specials where the 50% turret defence bonus is actually working. 

Took alot of refits and narrowing down this bug, but i can confirm that this is true. Originally noticed it last month when i won my 2 kings writs...One was taking damage to omegas, the other wasnt. I set about determining the cause of this and after alot of wasted shipyard time and tokens i can say with confidence the seige bat 3 and 4 do not give a 50% turret bonus. I had 1 defensive writ with counters and frontline counter sys ... thats working fine no problems... the one with seige bat took damage to omega on either the 3 or 4 versions of the special...i refitted garrison battery now and it is just fine again to cut a long story short

(note: yes i used a brennus sloth lead hull)

On the way i learned evade has nothig to do with it, tactical field resistance has nothing to do with it, the amount of special slots filled has nothing to do with it.....<---hence my wasted shipyard time and tokens :(

Seige bat 3 and 4 are basically useless specials which are also lying in the statsblocks too, dont be fooled.
  • REDBEARD478
    REDBEARD478
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 248
    hmm, didnt know [laugh my A-- off] was starred out now on forums...
  • Typhoons
    Typhoons
    Master Tactician
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 2,345

    Interesting,some visual proof would be very handy here.I haven't seen any others complaining about the siege batteries.

    DoomRooster said
    This Warn You 
  • Carlo DeNauw
    Carlo DeNauw
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Aug 2012 Posts: 3,248
    Oh my, if this is a game wide bug, this is bad. lol
    image
  • REDBEARD478
    REDBEARD478
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 248
    i was surprised no-one else has came across this yet also. I am not going to refit the garrison bat BACK OFF and put the seige bat 4 BACK ON just so i can make a vid to prove to forums tho. That would be a **** to the no.
  • TheOctopus
    TheOctopus
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2016 Posts: 1,266
    edited 7 Dec 2017, 4:53PM
    If this is true, several of my PvE and PvP fleets would be taking more damage than they should... This needs urgent clarification from Kixeye! Thanks for sharing it mate!
  • REDBEARD478
    REDBEARD478
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 248
    If this is true, several of my PvE fleets would be taking more damage than they should... This needs urgent clarification from Kixeye! Thanks for sharing it mate!
    Your welcome, and me too! Basically seige bat 3 or 4 was my go-to special for ALOT of builds and now i see that i have not been getting my moneys worth and have alot of refits to do.

    I suspect this bug has been active for quite some time too.
  • Laredo
    Laredo
    Moderator
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 14,707
    I will pass this up to be tested and we'll see what happens.  Thanks for the report.
  • TheOctopus
    TheOctopus
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Dec 2016 Posts: 1,266
    Laredo said:
    I will pass this up to be tested and we'll see what happens.  Thanks for the report.
    Thanks mate!
  • Joe_B222
    Joe_B222
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 440
    I guess I am not seeing the same thing you are.. 

    I have siege battery 4, and FLC in my FM fleet, and see the same amount of damage ( when I take it )  so IDK if this is right..
    Some more info would be great ( for my curious mind of course ) about how you did the testing..

    Simple and easiest way would be to take 2 of the same hulls, one with FLC and one with Siege Battery 4 and nothing else on the boats,  No added buffs from anywhere else and see what happens..
  • REDBEARD478
    REDBEARD478
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 248
    Joe_B222 said:
    I guess I am not seeing the same thing you are.. 

    I have siege battery 4, and FLC in my FM fleet, and see the same amount of damage ( when I take it )  so IDK if this is right..
    Some more info would be great ( for my curious mind of course ) about how you did the testing..

    Simple and easiest way would be to take 2 of the same hulls, one with FLC and one with Siege Battery 4 and nothing else on the boats,  No added buffs from anywhere else and see what happens..
    the other specials on the kings writ turned out to be irrelevant as the only variable that changed to fix it in the end was swapping seige bat with garrison bat (before that i had swapped others ofcourse before i knew what the problem was and had not yet narrowed down to the seige bat...i originally thought it might be the tactical field resistence or evade that was causing this, i then thought i may be a bug with not filling all special slots weakened a boat....till eventually it was seen clearly to be the seige bat).

    I dont think you can compare an fm fleet as they take so little damage as is, if any....and also they are effected by things you can shhot down which would be amunition to troll my claim.......you cannot shoot down omega..... Believe me i have been toying with this bug for weeks now. I wanted to be 100% sure what it was before i went public with it because i knew i wouldnt be believed and instantly dismissed by many if i didnt have my ducks in a row and a solution that was tested.......I couldnt just come here with a hunch, lol
  • Joe_B222
    Joe_B222
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 440
    well I will say that I disagree that the other specials are irrelevant,  just like armor and guns on the boat are not irrelevant..

    We know for a fact that you can out fit your boats with specific armors/specials that greatly influence how the Omega functions.  Splash Dispersal is an example..    Only real way you can test this, is a blank boat, with thud 1 and the 2 different specials   SB4/FLC..  There are too many factors that can skew the results, which is why I asked the question I did.

    But yes you can do it with the FM, the amount of damage that it gives doesn't matter.  IF SB4 is not working and FLC is, you will see a difference in damage.   IF they are both working, with the same stats, then the damage should be about the same..   Again, not saying you are right or wrong, but thats why I was asking how you did the tests.    IF this was a wide spread bug, more ppl would be complaining no?

  • REDBEARD478
    REDBEARD478
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 248
    Joe_B222 said:
    well I will say that I disagree that the other specials are irrelevant,  just like armor and guns on the boat are not irrelevant..

    We know for a fact that you can out fit your boats with specific armors/specials that greatly influence how the Omega functions.  Splash Dispersal is an example..    Only real way you can test this, is a blank boat, with thud 1 and the 2 different specials   SB4/FLC..  There are too many factors that can skew the results, which is why I asked the question I did.

    But yes you can do it with the FM, the amount of damage that it gives doesn't matter.  IF SB4 is not working and FLC is, you will see a difference in damage.   IF they are both working, with the same stats, then the damage should be about the same..   Again, not saying you are right or wrong, but thats why I was asking how you did the tests.    IF this was a wide spread bug, more ppl would be complaining no?

    Due to the amount of people that actually won 2 kings writ a month ago (about 500 max), the bug has not been apparent to that many is why it hasnt been foiled up to now. I strongly suspect some of the top alliances knew about this bug and have kept quiet to gain an advantage over the rest for when more got kings tho. It is glaringly obvious and id be surprised if more do not know about this.

    I have not used any splash dispersal systems or any armour. I had the boats parked when doing the testing(parked when taking fire off omega), and have tested on many many bases. When you change 1 thing at a time you can get reliable results from testing. In the end the only thing that solved it was putting frontline counter or garrison battery which is pointing to the turret deffence bonus as the other possibilities had already been ruled out.
  • REDBEARD478
    REDBEARD478
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 248
    And also there is nothing to say that this bug isnt specific to PvP. I have to say i have not tested it at all on PvE targets so that will need further investigation. ....BUT id strongly suspect that if a special is bugged PvP wise then the same would also be true for PvE.
  • Halvar
    Halvar
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 1,101

    That would explain so much. I use mostly siege bat if it's not a countermeasurehull and I'm getting shitloads of damage from things others say barely tickles.

  • DogStar123
    DogStar123
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 968
    edited 7 Dec 2017, 7:12PM
    I wish the guy that leveled me with a pair of Kings was using Seige Batt 3 or 4.  

    Then I would have seen the "Fail of the Whale". Oh wait, that is the next raids title.
  • REDBEARD478
    REDBEARD478
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 248
    Atleast now the guys who won a king from bounty now know what not to put on them lol (unless kix fix it ofcourse)
  • SIF
    SIF
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 804
    Joe_B222 said:
    I guess I am not seeing the same thing you are.. 

    I have siege battery 4, and FLC in my FM fleet, and see the same amount of damage ( when I take it )  so IDK if this is right..
    Some more info would be great ( for my curious mind of course ) about how you did the testing..

    Simple and easiest way would be to take 2 of the same hulls, one with FLC and one with Siege Battery 4 and nothing else on the boats,  No added buffs from anywhere else and see what happens..
    the other specials on the kings writ turned out to be irrelevant as the only variable that changed to fix it in the end was swapping seige bat with garrison bat (before that i had swapped others ofcourse before i knew what the problem was and had not yet narrowed down to the seige bat...i originally thought it might be the tactical field resistence or evade that was causing this, i then thought i may be a bug with not filling all special slots weakened a boat....till eventually it was seen clearly to be the seige bat).

    I dont think you can compare an fm fleet as they take so little damage as is, if any....and also they are effected by things you can shhot down which would be amunition to troll my claim.......you cannot shoot down omega..... Believe me i have been toying with this bug for weeks now. I wanted to be 100% sure what it was before i went public with it because i knew i wouldnt be believed and instantly dismissed by many if i didnt have my ducks in a row and a solution that was tested.......I couldnt just come here with a hunch, lol
    Your ducks aren't in a row without video (actually, multiple videos). The "I'll pass this up" post is shocking actually. Without video proof, Kix and most of the mods will usually just call you a liar and ignore the issue assuming you're too stupid to know what Siege Battery is... and to a point, I can understand them, given 1) there are forum users too stupid to know what Siege Battery is and 2) the weekly "target X's damage was upped" threads that are almost always disproved after a huge waste of time.

    They want video of everything. Then when you include one in your ticket showing exactly what is wrong, they don't bother to watch it until you demand they do.

  • SIF
    SIF
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Apr 2012 Posts: 804
    Joe_B222 said:
    well I will say that I disagree that the other specials are irrelevant,  just like armor and guns on the boat are not irrelevant..

    We know for a fact that you can out fit your boats with specific armors/specials that greatly influence how the Omega functions.  Splash Dispersal is an example..    Only real way you can test this, is a blank boat, with thud 1 and the 2 different specials   SB4/FLC..  There are too many factors that can skew the results, which is why I asked the question I did.

    But yes you can do it with the FM, the amount of damage that it gives doesn't matter.  IF SB4 is not working and FLC is, you will see a difference in damage.   IF they are both working, with the same stats, then the damage should be about the same..   Again, not saying you are right or wrong, but thats why I was asking how you did the tests.    IF this was a wide spread bug, more ppl would be complaining no?

    If the bug is some specials treat the Omega as a turret and others don't, no, it will never show up in testing in FM targets.

  • John1975
    John1975
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 1,754
    being it was asked while back about spec working on Omega and was stated that the Omega was NOT a Turret (even though it is) so specials do not work on it then that should also include the 50% turret defense spec as well you know since the Omega is not a turret and all.  Which is what Kix said on the discussion a while back.  If one is going to work then they all need to work.
    BadMoFo RYFG TTMX Level 97
  • mike.scott.73307
    mike.scott.73307
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 435
    Wow, wonder if this is specific only to the omega since it is not supposed to be a turret (I think).  I guess one way to test would be one of each ship against an omega then against an axiom.  This might not be perfect but would give a better indication.  I have a KW being built with seige 4 if anyone has one with one of the other specials and we could try some type of cooperative test depending on other build similarities.  More information on this issue would be most welcome and to be honest I had missed that the Omega was not supposed to be a turret.  Imagine lack of clear concise communication and reliable information,
  • John1975
    John1975
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 1,754
    Yes I just looked at all of them and they all say Turret defense ___%    In Kixes own words the Omega is the Omega and Not a turret.  By their own words none of those spec should be working vs omega. 
    BadMoFo RYFG TTMX Level 97
  • REDBEARD478
    REDBEARD478
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Feb 2012 Posts: 248
    John1975 said:
    being it was asked while back about spec working on Omega and was stated that the Omega was NOT a Turret (even though it is) so specials do not work on it then that should also include the 50% turret defense spec as well you know since the Omega is not a turret and all.  Which is what Kix said on the discussion a while back.  If one is going to work then they all need to work.
    If Omega is not meant to be classed as a turret then kings writ is useless and the bugs are infact with the frontline countermeasure sys and garrison battery which provide the turret defence against it, i dont think anybody wants this scenario and omega should be classed as a turret for the best interest of everybody...going forward they should just clarify this and fix the seige bat specials. Thats my opinion on it

    Worrying as a base hitter to think it could go the other way tho, the only thing i enjoy in this game is hitting bases now and making kings useless would wreck the game for me and many hours of hard work getting them!
  • John1975
    John1975
    Force to be Reckoned With
    Joined Sep 2012 Posts: 1,754
    personally my kings with bus in have no issues with omega.  Ether which way they go I dont have a preference as long as it is = across the board. As in if Fire support etc does not work as its not a turret then the defense spec should not work.  If they say ok def spec will work and we are going to fix that then the fire support etc needs to also be fixed. 
    BadMoFo RYFG TTMX Level 97
  • PenguinPants
    PenguinPants
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 771
    I know for a fact Siege Battery 3 & 4 work in PvE. This seems to be a PvP-specific bug.

    When I was calculating damage from PvP turrets, everything seems to be off by a factor of 2. The lack Siege Battery defense stat would perfectly explain why conquerors seem to be dying to turrets that they should not be.

    Thanks for testing.
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