A.X.I.S. Weapon Varient Comparisons

Daniel Rose
Daniel Rose
Minor Nuisance
Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 196
Weapon Level == DPS == Mass == Mass-DPS Ratio == Range == Speed

Pulse Cannon:
Level 1(Normal) == 180 == 1168 == 6.5 == 0-3250 == 5000
Level 2(Normal) == 226 == 1352 == 6.0 == 0-3250 == 5000
Level 3(Xeno) == 271 == 1536 == <5.7> == 0-4450 == 5000

Bombardment Torpedo:
Level 1(Normal) == 172 == 1234 == <7.2> == 1000-4000 == 2000
Level 2(Normal) == 207 == 1688 == 8.2 == 1000-4000 == 2000
Level 3(Heavy) == 249 == 1788 == <7.2> == 1000-4000 == 2000
Level 4(Xeno) == 326 == 2725 == 8.4 == 1000-4000 == 2000

Twinfire Beam:
Level 1(Normal) == 163 == 1155 == 7.1 == 0-3000 == 3000
Level 2(Normal) == 204 == 1574 == 7.7 == 0-3000 == 3000
Level 3(Heavy) == 261 == 1748 == <6.7> == 0-3000 == 3000
Level 4(Xeno) == 358 == 2659 == 7.4 == 0-4250 == 3000

Eclipse Driver:
Level 1(Normal) == 181 == 1291 == <7.1> == 1000-5250 == 2250
Level 2(Normal) == 226 == 1760 == 7.8 == 1000-5250 == 2250
Level 3(Heavy) == 290 == 2236 == 7.7 == 1000-5250 == 2250
Level 4(Xeno)==398 == 3398 == 8.5 == 1000-5250 == 3750

The most important statistic here are the mass-DPS ratios. This is because these are the weapons which give you the most bang for your mass and allow you to have the maximum DPS with ship weight restrictions. The best ratio per weapon are bold and in < >.

What you might notice is that with the exception of the Pulse Cannon, none of the Xeno weapon variants have the best mass-DPS ratio. In fact, the Bombardment Torpedo's and Eclipse Driver's xeno variants have the worst mass-DPS ratio, with the Xeno Twinfire Beam holding the second worst. This is the exact opposite of all the tier 6 Xeno weapons, which have easily the best mass-DPS ratio out of all their variants. With those weapons, the Xeno variant was the best variant hands down. That's why you could only get their blueprints by hitting the highest level alien fleets. This same logic is applied to the tier 6.5 Xeno weapons, except that the Xeno variants aren't the best variants. If you want an overall higher DPS with any of these weapons (again excluding the Pulse Cannon) you have to use their Heavy variants or face cutting down substantially on your ships' armor. That, or just use the tier 6 Xeno weapons which are statistically better in almost every way. Either way you go, these tier 6.5 Xeno weapons are better off sitting in your blueprint collection, only used to satisfy your completionist desires ;)

Note: If you think that this is how the weapons should be balanced, I'd agree with you if we didn't already have all of the tier 6 weapons. If these tier 6.5 weapons are balanced but the tier 6 weapons aren't, all that is achieved is a bunch of obsolete tech. It would akin to Kixeye spending a month with releasing only new tier 4 ships and weapons. While it'd be nice to get, no one would waste time building them when they can make ships that are exponentially more powerful.

2nd Note: I know that the Xeno weapons have the Alien damage type while the normal variants only have their corresponding damage type, but at this point it doesn't make much of a difference or it's actually better to have non-Alien damage. This is due to all Xeno and A.X.I.S (but not Marauder for some reason) tech having massive innate and armor resistance to Alien damage. Also PvE fleets are starting to have this resistance as well with the new A.X.I.S. Deceiver fleets (which also have magic restriction-breaking Exophase Shields that block Alien damage too.)
  • ChalkSix
    ChalkSix
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 239
    I think there is a clear push to re-emphasize Projectile, Energy and, Explosive damage types as they were not getting much use at all during the xeno part of the tier 6 season.

    Would be interested to see the results with the necessary weapon specials (Harmonic or Reg Beam Cap, Siege Casing or Overcharged Warheads)  the Mass/DPS ratio may tip to be even with the Xeno variants or even worse.  I think it would be rare to see a Pulse Cannon guardian flying without the range boost provided by Beam Cap.
    image
  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 196
    ChalkSix said:
    I think there is a clear push to re-emphasize Projectile, Energy and, Explosive damage types as they were not getting much use at all during the xeno part of the tier 6 season.

    Would be interested to see the results with the necessary weapon specials (Harmonic or Reg Beam Cap, Siege Casing or Overcharged Warheads)  the Mass/DPS ratio may tip to be even with the Xeno variants or even worse.  I think it would be rare to see a Pulse Cannon guardian flying without the range boost provided by Beam Cap.
    That's a really good point that I didn't think of. When I get a chance I'll add the excess mass these would incur compared to the Xeno variants' specials which have lower mass requirements. As for the bringing the old damage types back into the lime-light, that's something I would like to see as it adds a lot more variety to ship builds. Sadly that would only be feasible if the Void, Plasma, and Alien types were phased out,  which I don't see happening anytime soon :/
  • Rogue Trooper45
    Rogue Trooper45
    Potential Threat
    Joined Jul 2015 Posts: 89
    You do not need a special with the Xeno versions which balances the weight/DPs back into its favour.

    EG the Elipse drivers are on the slow side so you would need to add iridium drivers or similar to speed them up to the same speed as the Xeno verion.

    For the twinfire beams you need focussed optics or the Harmonic Beam Capacitor to increase the range to match that of the Xeno.


  • Railunion
    Railunion
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2014 Posts: 59

    A spreadsheet/table would have been a much better form ;)

  • Railunion
    Railunion
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2014 Posts: 59

    Nice post tho

  • Railunion
    Railunion
    Potential Threat
    Joined Dec 2014 Posts: 59

    @Rogue Trooper45 said:
    You do not need a special with the Xeno versions which balances the weight/DPs back into its favour.

    EG the Elipse drivers are on the slow side so you would need to add iridium drivers or similar to speed them up to the same speed as the Xeno verion.

    For the twinfire beams you need focussed optics or the Harmonic Beam Capacitor to increase the range to match that of the Xeno.

    With iridium5 magnets the regular eclipse driver projectiles travel way faster than the xeno ones.

  • SEAL Corps1
    SEAL Corps1
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2015 Posts: 1,168
    Railunion said:

    @Rogue Trooper45 said:
    You do not need a special with the Xeno versions which balances the weight/DPs back into its favour.

    EG the Elipse drivers are on the slow side so you would need to add iridium drivers or similar to speed them up to the same speed as the Xeno verion.

    For the twinfire beams you need focussed optics or the Harmonic Beam Capacitor to increase the range to match that of the Xeno.

    With iridium5 magnets the regular eclipse driver projectiles travel way faster than the xeno ones.

    At the cost of reduced rate of fire. 
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  • protopyre
    protopyre
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 199
    An important thing to remember when comparing Axis to Xeno is that Xeno is the one that is different. What I mean by that is every weapon in the game basically follows the same pattern as Axis, where the smaller lighter version are more weight efficient, except Xeno.
    This shift in the Xeno tier to making the heaviest weapon also much more efficient played a big role in how OP Xeno tech was when it came out, it also really hurt players because to get the best build you needed to spend the crazy fit times for the Xeno versions. Making a ship with only half the weapon slots filled was often better than making a normal build because of the skewed ratios.
    The Axis design is a return to the normal structure of how these ratios play into the game, as was well described by Leonis.

    Also a side note about using the normal weapon types, most high level PvP fleets have still been using energy and explosive like always, because there is typically less resistance to these in tier 6. (Aside from when Xeno first came out and only coiners had them and used them vs DC ships etc.)
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  • dom.friant
    dom.friant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,436
    Railunion said:

    @Rogue Trooper45 said:
    You do not need a special with the Xeno versions which balances the weight/DPs back into its favour.

    EG the Elipse drivers are on the slow side so you would need to add iridium drivers or similar to speed them up to the same speed as the Xeno verion.

    For the twinfire beams you need focussed optics or the Harmonic Beam Capacitor to increase the range to match that of the Xeno.

    With iridium5 magnets the regular eclipse driver projectiles travel way faster than the xeno ones.

    At the cost of reduced rate of fire. 
    Could you clarify on your statement?

    From my understanding, the only thing iridium5 changes is the speed of the projectile during its travel from your ship towards the enemy, thereby increasing its chances of hitting. It does not change dps so the firing cycle is the same amount of time. It gets to the target faster, so has the appearance of a longer reload. And maybe that's what you mean. But I fail to see how increasing the chance of hitting is not more desirable.
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  • Saladman
    Saladman
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2016 Posts: 205

    Agree! My current Favorite build is Vin with heavy twinfire... Spend 2.5m intel for 10 of them last Decimation...wish i could get a BP for them!

    I read this change as Kix doesnt want us to have BP for the best weapons. But.... I am probably just too cynical.... I cant help it.... My eyes are all black and blue from all the Kicks! :-)

  • protopyre
    protopyre
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jun 2013 Posts: 199
    Not going to try quoting that whole essay so here's a snip, I agree 95% with the post, but one small thing to point out regarding the conclusion.

    "My point with these is that the Xeno Twinfire Beam is not the best option in any of these situations. If you want the highest DPS, go with Xeno Rupture Beams. If you want the highest health, go with Xeno Seeker Missiles. If you want the highest damage while still conforming to my initial build, use Heavy Twinfire Beams. This is the problem that I see with the T6.5 Xeno weapons; no matter how you contort your designs, there will always be a better weapon to use, at least in my experience."

    While the Rupture build is better on paper, I am almost certain that it would lose in a head to head fight vs the Twinfire version. This is because of the hidden charge and cooldown values that both favour the Twinfire. Getting more shots in means faster kills and less overkill for Twinfire. I have Both Twinfire and Rupture on a Guardian of mine and the fire rate difference is massive.
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  • Daniel Rose
    Daniel Rose
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2016 Posts: 196
    Railunion said:

    @Rogue Trooper45 said:
    You do not need a special with the Xeno versions which balances the weight/DPs back into its favour.

    EG the Elipse drivers are on the slow side so you would need to add iridium drivers or similar to speed them up to the same speed as the Xeno verion.

    For the twinfire beams you need focussed optics or the Harmonic Beam Capacitor to increase the range to match that of the Xeno.

    With iridium5 magnets the regular eclipse driver projectiles travel way faster than the xeno ones.

    At the cost of reduced rate of fire. 
    Could you clarify on your statement?

    From my understanding, the only thing iridium5 changes is the speed of the projectile during its travel from your ship towards the enemy, thereby increasing its chances of hitting. It does not change dps so the firing cycle is the same amount of time. It gets to the target faster, so has the appearance of a longer reload. And maybe that's what you mean. But I fail to see how increasing the chance of hitting is not more desirable.
    I believe that was a referance to the Beam Capacitor, which does directly affect charge time.
    protopyre said:
    Not going to try quoting that whole essay so here's a snip, I agree 95% with the post, but one small thing to point out regarding the conclusion.

    "My point with these is that the Xeno Twinfire Beam is not the best option in any of these situations. If you want the highest DPS, go with Xeno Rupture Beams. If you want the highest health, go with Xeno Seeker Missiles. If you want the highest damage while still conforming to my initial build, use Heavy Twinfire Beams. This is the problem that I see with the T6.5 Xeno weapons; no matter how you contort your designs, there will always be a better weapon to use, at least in my experience."

    While the Rupture build is better on paper, I am almost certain that it would lose in a head to head fight vs the Twinfire version. This is because of the hidden charge and cooldown values that both favour the Twinfire. Getting more shots in means faster kills and less overkill for Twinfire. I have Both Twinfire and Rupture on a Guardian of mine and the fire rate difference is massive.
    Yes and no. Twinfire definitely has a faster charge time, but this is included in the DPS, so there is no damage change. What there is, and you mentioned this, is less overkill. This means the Twinfire is much better at many weaker targets than the Rupture is. The DPS difference means the Rupture is better at fewer more powerful targets than the Twinfire. The problem with this is that there aren't as many opportunities where this difference could make up for all the lost DPS. I do get what you are saying though.
  • bazzaman
    bazzaman
    Greenhorn
    Joined Aug 2015 Posts: 1
    Is the Harmonic Xeno Beam Capacitor out already, I still have free refits on the vindis and no clue how to kit them out. Thinking of doing an all xeno seeker but the twinfires look promising if i had that new special.

  • SEAL Corps1
    SEAL Corps1
    Incursion Leader
    Joined May 2015 Posts: 1,168
    bazzaman said:
    Is the Harmonic Xeno Beam Capacitor out already, I still have free refits on the vindis and no clue how to kit them out. Thinking of doing an all xeno seeker but the twinfires look promising if i had that new special.

    Next Decimation. My Enforcers still have that free refit, and I plan on using the Harmonic XBC when I get it. 
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