AXIS Frigate

  • Revann
    Revann
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 2,250

    @Nightmare Deathlock said:
    I dont think ship x was suppose to replace frigates... And dcs ship x is practically non existant to us.

    It was indeed a replacement to the overall ship class “frigate” no more frigates in Vega’s future unless they release a marauder one.

    -Git Gud 
  • dom.friant
    dom.friant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,368
    edited 9 Oct 2017, 2:24AM
    Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:
    Revann said:

    Also, something no one seems to be thinking about the fact that we lost frigate and gained the specialist class. Which isn’t always supposed to have the same special skill set each tier(something kixeye said in the past) The suppressor is anti squadron. Idk if we will get more specialist ships or if there will legit just be a less ships

    Demon Corps got a frigate and a ship-x. I really like the idea of ship-x being something unusual, but I don't think it should replace frigates. 

    Check again... the legion is NOT a specialist ship. It’s a piece of **** ship.


    In the Xeno season briefings (I believe, when ship-x was announced) it was stated that the Legion was the first ship-x, it just wasn't officially called that at the time of its release (they hadn't made up the term yet). No it is not "specialist class" in game, so technically you're correct, but I did not say specialist. To sum it up, specialist no, ship-x, yes.
    Revann said:

    @Nightmare Deathlock said:
    I dont think ship x was suppose to replace frigates... And dcs ship x is practically non existant to us.

    It was indeed a replacement to the overall ship class “frigate” no more frigates in Vega’s future unless they release a marauder one.


    Do you have a source for that? None of the official announcements I've read ever said there would never again be another frigate. Only that there would not be a xeno or an axis frigate.

    I'm hoping threads like this will show that there is some interest from the 1% in seeing a new frigate.
    Because I like the Condor!
    http://i.imgur.com/80deZPv.png
  • Revann
    Revann
    Master Tactician
    Joined Jan 2014 Posts: 2,250

    @dom.friant said:
    Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:

    Revann said:

    Also, something no one seems to be thinking about the fact that we lost frigate and gained the specialist class. Which isn’t always supposed to have the same special skill set each tier(something kixeye said in the past) The suppressor is anti squadron. Idk if we will get more specialist ships or if there will legit just be a less ships
    

    Demon Corps got a frigate and a ship-x. I really like the idea of ship-x being something unusual, but I don't think it should replace frigates. 

    Check again... the legion is NOT a specialist ship. It’s a piece of **** ship.

    In the Xeno season briefings (I believe, when ship-x was announced) it was stated that the Legion was the first ship-x, it just wasn't officially called that at the time of its release (they hadn't made up the term yet). No it is not "specialist class" in game, so technically you're correct, but I did not say specialist. To sum it up, specialist no, ship-x, yes.Revann said:

    @Nightmare Deathlock said:
    I dont think ship x was suppose to replace frigates... And dcs ship x is practically non existant to us.

    It was indeed a replacement to the overall ship class “frigate” no more frigates in Vega’s future unless they release a marauder one.

    Do you have a source for that? None of the official announcements I've read ever said there would never again be another frigate. Only that there would not be a xeno or an axis frigate.

    I'm hoping threads like this will show that there is some interest from the 1% in seeing a new frigate.

    I would love a new frigate, I don’t see one being useful against aliens... I believe the threads had stated that ship-x was the replacement to the frigate class. I don’t search the forums. I have glimmers of **** I’ve read, throw it out here, and you smart guys go do that stuff for me. ;)

    -Git Gud 
  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    @Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:
    Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:

    Revann said:

    Also, something no one seems to be thinking about the fact that we lost frigate and gained the specialist class. Which isn’t always supposed to have the same special skill set each tier(something kixeye said in the past) The suppressor is anti squadron. Idk if we will get more specialist ships or if there will legit just be a less ships
    

    Demon Corps got a frigate and a ship-x. I really like the idea of ship-x being something unusual, but I don't think it should replace frigates. 

    Check again... the legion is NOT a specialist ship. It’s a piece of **** ship.

    In the Xeno season briefings (I believe, when ship-x was announced) it was stated that the Legion was the first ship-x, it just wasn't officially called that at the time of its release (they hadn't made up the term yet). No it is not "specialist class" in game, so technically you're correct, but I did not say specialist. To sum it up, specialist no, ship-x, yes.Revann said:

    @Nightmare Deathlock said:
    I dont think ship x was suppose to replace frigates... And dcs ship x is practically non existant to us.

    It was indeed a replacement to the overall ship class “frigate” no more frigates in Vega’s future unless they release a marauder one.

    Do you have a source for that? None of the official announcements I've read ever said there would never again be another frigate. Only that there would not be a xeno or an axis frigate.

    I'm hoping threads like this will show that there is some interest from the 1% in seeing a new frigate.

    I would love a new frigate, I don’t see one being useful against aliens... I believe the threads had stated that ship-x was the replacement to the frigate class. I don’t search the forums. I have glimmers of **** I’ve read, throw it out here, and you smart guys go do that stuff for me. ;)

    Im pretty sure they stated at one point frigates are gone for good... As they barely served much purpose... I would like to see them again though, also about maruaders, theyll likely release marauder versions of the older ships to for smaller players to pvp better.

  • M.V.K.0
    M.V.K.0
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2017 Posts: 870

    Still would be broken... Its a boarding ship not a squadron type ship... So your literally sending troops onto a hull on the inside which makes it nearly impossible to determine health drain... Since unlike squadrons they dont need fuel to work xD

    Yes, but the Boarding Ship could use Squadron like ships for Boarding. As such, they could have a fuel cost, kinda like I was saying.

    That, and the boarding ships could have say only say many troops as well.

    Troops could set charges to the outside and say once in could set charges then, Overall Armor could diminish.

    Especially is say Boarding Squadrons/Groups had "unrestricted" access for whatever means.

    The Boarding Squadrons Group could maybe have like a 5k Range or in those means, maybe less. 

    But the idea really, is since say the Specialist carries Max Targets of 2 by default, is to be able to say Stun multiple targets at once from one ship for still offer what is light to moderate damage ranges say across the board also, given the ship would have 1-2 normal weapons to be able to use.

    The one thing I can't figure out really is rather the boarding ship should have actual squadrons as normal to be able to use.

    But, the Boarding Squadrons/Groups could be exclusive to the new Boarding Ship/Marine Frigate. 

    Having it be called say Marine Frigate and still labeled as a Specialist think is also a win win situation. 

    Could still have 360 degree firing arc, still have increased damage against squadrons, and still have Max targets of 2, along with say the additional worth of Resistance Capacities as well.

    Nothing changes but essentially offering a new ship for the worth of Specialist. 

    For how things work in this game otherwise, think would be a good deal and if further tweaked to more relevant numbers for the difference would be a nice fit for the current genre theme.

    Especially still saying that each Boarding Group is still weapon type focused. And basically offering what is a Stasis effect, Dps isn't quite main concern, but can offer a better alternative still for it otherwise given the worth of Stasis to effect.

    I like the idea of gradual increase, but instant numbers could say work, just what numbers??

    And for dps regards, how long should say Boarding Squadrons/Groups say Fly around before they gotta go back to refuel and get additional troops??

    Also, Should the idea of a new carrier be for any difference, let alone old, or should perhaps just by in the idea of having a component to support the counter against Boarding Ships for active difference??
    New Component, Enhanced Security/Additional Security, reduces the effects and damage from Boarding Ships say by 25% to start with or something. 
    Say something in those terms but could have changes of course and still think the component could be open for all ships, rather just certain factions exclusive or not for that. 


    Thanks,

    MVK 

  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    You dont get my point :/ boarding means sending troops onto a enemy ship... Squadrons arent troops xD theyre ships.

  • dom.friant
    dom.friant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,368

    @Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:
    Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:

    Revann said:

    Also, something no one seems to be thinking about the fact that we lost frigate and gained the specialist class. Which isn’t always supposed to have the same special skill set each tier(something kixeye said in the past) The suppressor is anti squadron. Idk if we will get more specialist ships or if there will legit just be a less ships
    

    Demon Corps got a frigate and a ship-x. I really like the idea of ship-x being something unusual, but I don't think it should replace frigates. 

    Check again... the legion is NOT a specialist ship. It’s a piece of **** ship.

    In the Xeno season briefings (I believe, when ship-x was announced) it was stated that the Legion was the first ship-x, it just wasn't officially called that at the time of its release (they hadn't made up the term yet). No it is not "specialist class" in game, so technically you're correct, but I did not say specialist. To sum it up, specialist no, ship-x, yes.Revann said:

    @Nightmare Deathlock said:
    I dont think ship x was suppose to replace frigates... And dcs ship x is practically non existant to us.

    It was indeed a replacement to the overall ship class “frigate” no more frigates in Vega’s future unless they release a marauder one.

    Do you have a source for that? None of the official announcements I've read ever said there would never again be another frigate. Only that there would not be a xeno or an axis frigate.

    I'm hoping threads like this will show that there is some interest from the 1% in seeing a new frigate.

    I would love a new frigate, I don’t see one being useful against aliens... I believe the threads had stated that ship-x was the replacement to the frigate class. I don’t search the forums. I have glimmers of **** I’ve read, throw it out here, and you smart guys go do that stuff for me. ;)

    Im pretty sure they stated at one point frigates are gone for good... As they barely served much purpose... I would like to see them again though, also about maruaders, theyll likely release marauder versions of the older ships to for smaller players to pvp better.

    I could always have missed it, but the only official statements on the matter I've seen are from the season announcement posts of first xeno and then axis, basically saying they don't have a purpose in regards to farming alien targets. Dreadmango said this:

    --------------------------------------------
    Regarding the Frigate, we reviewed and ultimately decided that the Frigate class had no clear purpose within the new tier 6 target designs. Instead of trying to force the Frigate class into something it is not, we’ll be dropping it from the tier 6 season and will potentially replace it with a another faction-specific “Ship X”. “Ship X” hulls sit outside of normal ship class conventions and add a twist to the meta game. The Legion Battleship is an example of the first Ship X." Dreadmango
    -------------------------------------------

    I can't find the original xeno season announcement thread this was pulled from, but I found the quote here:

    https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/comment/5597257

    That does not say anything about the future, just tier 6. The same thing was basically repeated for axis as it's pretty much a continuation of xeno season, but now with plasma!!

    The way I read it is not that ship-x replaces frigates for all time, but only during these two season. Oddly enough they ended up dropping the xeno carrier too, so xeno is missing a frigate and a carrier. Nobody called it the end of carriers of course since we then got the axis (formerly xeno) carrier. To me all that switcheroo is proof that nothing is set in stone, which is again why I think they could always change their mind and release a frigate...

    Oh, and there's my proof of Legion being the first ship-x ;)

    As for future marauders, that's anyone's guess at this point. The only official word we have so far is from DevLeonis:
    "The Marauder faction consists of repurposed AXIS ships. There are no plans to use other factions within the Marauder faction at this time."
    https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/712152/p5

    But again, all is subject to change.

    All that to say, please bring back frigates!!!

    Because I like the Condor!
    http://i.imgur.com/80deZPv.png
  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    If they had no purpose in the aliens they wont have a purpose in any tiers afterwards xD the guarenteed damage requires you to have decent armor and tech on your ship... What frigates have these? Hurrican and tornado... Both of which are practically faster higher mass exodus cruisers... A frigate in vega is suppose to be low armor high agility... Take one of those away and it practically becomes a different class entirely... Thats the issue

  • dom.friant
    dom.friant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,368
    edited 9 Oct 2017, 6:37PM

    If they had no purpose in the aliens they wont have a purpose in any tiers afterwards xD the guarenteed damage requires you to have decent armor and tech on your ship... What frigates have these? Hurrican and tornado... Both of which are practically faster higher mass exodus cruisers... A frigate in vega is suppose to be low armor high agility... Take one of those away and it practically becomes a different class entirely... Thats the issue

    I understand what you're saying, and I'm not suggesting they turn frigates into something they are not. But I am saying I think they could be incorporated into tier 6, axis especially. With harmonics it seems they are encouraging mixed fleets, and a frigate could provide some sort of bonus the other hulls don't. They would be a support ship, not a tank. Annihilator and Suppressor aren't exactly high armor tanks either. First thought I had could be a plasma decoy (like people said they've used frigates for), with a countermeasure type weapon that attracts some plasma shots away from the rest of your ships, and is something fast and agile to then get out of the way of the plasma hitting the countermeasure. Who knows, I don't know what Kixeye has planned for the rest of the season or the next, but I'm sure they could come up with something. And then we can use them for PvP however we want, plus would then enable a marauder frigate since they are said to be re-purposed axis ships.
    Because I like the Condor!
    http://i.imgur.com/80deZPv.png
  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    Suppressor is a specialist class ship built for squadron counter. Annihilator shouldve had 2 armor to begin with... Plus it has more than 3 weapons... The general max weapons of a frigate is 3 and maybe 4. I want to see frigates again myself but in current stand point theyd be crushed in seconds... Decoy or not. Because they are purposefully built for agility which implies taking as little damage as possible and staying away from energy weapons... Frigates will not survive in a vega where damage is guarenteed. A counter measure for frigates only i guess could help but it would need to destroy a lot of projectiles or block energy weapons. Marauders i assume will take into account older ships as well so frigates can come back for pvp... MAYBE marauders will steal some "unused frigate blueprint" from axis... That would be interesting

  • Ersha66
    Ersha66
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2016 Posts: 150
    fregates to be viable in modern event contents need better strafing speed,their passive changed from thruster mass reduction to shield mass reduction and add a second shield slot at mk4 instead of a device slot, in that way they can do a similar job to cutters, but having a better stasis resistance and more hopes to dodge plasma projectiles, if you mix them between cutters or cruisers you can use them as decoy (and taking less fleet damage cause losing a fregate is not the same in repair times as a cutter or a cruiser)
  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    How bout frigates can equip 2 engines at mk4 :p that isnt quite as op for them cause 90% of all weapons from enemies cant be dodged xD

  • Ersha66
    Ersha66
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2016 Posts: 150
    engines cannot stack, that's why the actual thruster reduction bonus is really LAME :V 
  • Ersha66
    Ersha66
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2016 Posts: 150
    Would be cool if kixeye decide to change resistor slots in hardware slots and release consumables that changes speeds of hulls, maybe in that way you can bypass that and stack speeds  :o 
  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    I know engines cant stack xD i was making a joke suggestion foe frigates wear it only stacks for them.

  • M.V.K.0
    M.V.K.0
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2017 Posts: 870
    edited 10 Oct 2017, 2:40AM

    @Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:
    Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:

    Revann said:

    Also, something no one seems to be thinking about the fact that we lost frigate and gained the specialist class. Which isn’t always supposed to have the same special skill set each tier(something kixeye said in the past) The suppressor is anti squadron. Idk if we will get more specialist ships or if there will legit just be a less ships
    

    Demon Corps got a frigate and a ship-x. I really like the idea of ship-x being something unusual, but I don't think it should replace frigates. 

    Check again... the legion is NOT a specialist ship. It’s a piece of **** ship.

    In the Xeno season briefings (I believe, when ship-x was announced) it was stated that the Legion was the first ship-x, it just wasn't officially called that at the time of its release (they hadn't made up the term yet). No it is not "specialist class" in game, so technically you're correct, but I did not say specialist. To sum it up, specialist no, ship-x, yes.Revann said:

    @Nightmare Deathlock said:
    I dont think ship x was suppose to replace frigates... And dcs ship x is practically non existant to us.

    It was indeed a replacement to the overall ship class “frigate” no more frigates in Vega’s future unless they release a marauder one.

    Do you have a source for that? None of the official announcements I've read ever said there would never again be another frigate. Only that there would not be a xeno or an axis frigate.

    I'm hoping threads like this will show that there is some interest from the 1% in seeing a new frigate.

    I would love a new frigate, I don’t see one being useful against aliens... I believe the threads had stated that ship-x was the replacement to the frigate class. I don’t search the forums. I have glimmers of **** I’ve read, throw it out here, and you smart guys go do that stuff for me. ;)

    Im pretty sure they stated at one point frigates are gone for good... As they barely served much purpose... I would like to see them again though, also about maruaders, theyll likely release marauder versions of the older ships to for smaller players to pvp better.

    I could always have missed it, but the only official statements on the matter I've seen are from the season announcement posts of first xeno and then axis, basically saying they don't have a purpose in regards to farming alien targets. Dreadmango said this:

    --------------------------------------------
    Regarding the Frigate, we reviewed and ultimately decided that the Frigate class had no clear purpose within the new tier 6 target designs. Instead of trying to force the Frigate class into something it is not, we’ll be dropping it from the tier 6 season and will potentially replace it with a another faction-specific “Ship X”. “Ship X” hulls sit outside of normal ship class conventions and add a twist to the meta game. The Legion Battleship is an example of the first Ship X." Dreadmango
    -------------------------------------------

    I can't find the original xeno season announcement thread this was pulled from, but I found the quote here:

    https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/comment/5597257

    That does not say anything about the future, just tier 6. The same thing was basically repeated for axis as it's pretty much a continuation of xeno season, but now with plasma!!

    The way I read it is not that ship-x replaces frigates for all time, but only during these two season. Oddly enough they ended up dropping the xeno carrier too, so xeno is missing a frigate and a carrier. Nobody called it the end of carriers of course since we then got the axis (formerly xeno) carrier. To me all that switcheroo is proof that nothing is set in stone, which is again why I think they could always change their mind and release a frigate...

    Oh, and there's my proof of Legion being the first ship-x ;)

    As for future marauders, that's anyone's guess at this point. The only official word we have so far is from DevLeonis:
    "The Marauder faction consists of repurposed AXIS ships. There are no plans to use other factions within the Marauder faction at this time."
    https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/712152/p5

    But again, all is subject to change.

    All that to say, please bring back frigates!!!

    This still does not explain how, let alone (a) why, for the lack of a possible Boarding/Marine Frigate for the new Specialist Class Hull.

    It could be called the, Ravenger, and have maybe also a new Weapon release in regards to still sustaining Damage to Squadrons/Wings Bonus by getting a release of a Flak Cannon with it. And say works in the terms of Seekers but operates still differently of course.


    Thanks,

    MVK
  • dom.friant
    dom.friant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,368
    edited 10 Oct 2017, 3:40PM

    Suppressor is a specialist class ship built for squadron counter. 

    Um, not sure what your point is. It's a support ship just like I'm suggesting an axis frigate would be. As such, it isn't supposed to be an armored tank, that is the role of cruisers.

    Suppressor is a specialist class ship built for squadron counter. Annihilator shouldve had 2 armor to begin with... Plus it has more than 3 weapons... The general max weapons of a frigate is 3 and maybe 4. 


    Your saying the Annihilator it should have had 2 armors is pretty much the same thing as me saying Axis should have a frigate. :)
    Really the only xeno and axis ship class that is supposed to be really heavily armored is the cruiser, and maybe the cutter to a lesser extent. 

    Honestly an Axis frigate probably wouldn't be much different that the ones we know, just with the mass to hold current weapons and armor (1 or 2), and it would use the same talonite or tungsten armor, have xeno and plasma resist etc. If we're really worried about durability maybe give it a frigate only shield with lower bleed through or something. 

    I want to see frigates again myself but in current stand point theyd be crushed in seconds... Decoy or not. Because they are purposefully built for agility which implies taking as little damage as possible and staying away from energy weapons... Frigates will not survive in a vega where damage is guarenteed. A counter measure for frigates only i guess could help but it would need to destroy a lot of projectiles or block energy weapons. Marauders i assume will take into account older ships as well so frigates can come back for pvp... MAYBE marauders will steal some "unused frigate blueprint" from axis... That would be interesting

    You say you'd like to see one too but all you're doing is shooting down everyone's suggestions on how a frigate could be worked it. I do like your suggestion of the the secret axis frigate making an appearance as a marauder, but I'd be interesting in how you think a regular frigate could be worked in.
    Because I like the Condor!
    http://i.imgur.com/80deZPv.png
  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    Im shooting them down because your suggestions completely ignore a frigates purpose, maybe as a ship x it could work which I DID STATE THAT. But in normal circumstances its completely worthless as a normal hull. Read before you respond

  • RavenDrakar
    RavenDrakar
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 967
    M.V.K.0 said:

    @Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:
    Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:

    Revann said:

    Also, something no one seems to be thinking about the fact that we lost frigate and gained the specialist class. Which isn’t always supposed to have the same special skill set each tier(something kixeye said in the past) The suppressor is anti squadron. Idk if we will get more specialist ships or if there will legit just be a less ships
    

    Demon Corps got a frigate and a ship-x. I really like the idea of ship-x being something unusual, but I don't think it should replace frigates. 

    Check again... the legion is NOT a specialist ship. It’s a piece of **** ship.

    In the Xeno season briefings (I believe, when ship-x was announced) it was stated that the Legion was the first ship-x, it just wasn't officially called that at the time of its release (they hadn't made up the term yet). No it is not "specialist class" in game, so technically you're correct, but I did not say specialist. To sum it up, specialist no, ship-x, yes.Revann said:

    @Nightmare Deathlock said:
    I dont think ship x was suppose to replace frigates... And dcs ship x is practically non existant to us.

    It was indeed a replacement to the overall ship class “frigate” no more frigates in Vega’s future unless they release a marauder one.

    Do you have a source for that? None of the official announcements I've read ever said there would never again be another frigate. Only that there would not be a xeno or an axis frigate.

    I'm hoping threads like this will show that there is some interest from the 1% in seeing a new frigate.

    I would love a new frigate, I don’t see one being useful against aliens... I believe the threads had stated that ship-x was the replacement to the frigate class. I don’t search the forums. I have glimmers of **** I’ve read, throw it out here, and you smart guys go do that stuff for me. ;)

    Im pretty sure they stated at one point frigates are gone for good... As they barely served much purpose... I would like to see them again though, also about maruaders, theyll likely release marauder versions of the older ships to for smaller players to pvp better.

    I could always have missed it, but the only official statements on the matter I've seen are from the season announcement posts of first xeno and then axis, basically saying they don't have a purpose in regards to farming alien targets. Dreadmango said this:

    --------------------------------------------
    Regarding the Frigate, we reviewed and ultimately decided that the Frigate class had no clear purpose within the new tier 6 target designs. Instead of trying to force the Frigate class into something it is not, we’ll be dropping it from the tier 6 season and will potentially replace it with a another faction-specific “Ship X”. “Ship X” hulls sit outside of normal ship class conventions and add a twist to the meta game. The Legion Battleship is an example of the first Ship X." Dreadmango
    -------------------------------------------

    I can't find the original xeno season announcement thread this was pulled from, but I found the quote here:

    https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/comment/5597257

    That does not say anything about the future, just tier 6. The same thing was basically repeated for axis as it's pretty much a continuation of xeno season, but now with plasma!!

    The way I read it is not that ship-x replaces frigates for all time, but only during these two season. Oddly enough they ended up dropping the xeno carrier too, so xeno is missing a frigate and a carrier. Nobody called it the end of carriers of course since we then got the axis (formerly xeno) carrier. To me all that switcheroo is proof that nothing is set in stone, which is again why I think they could always change their mind and release a frigate...

    Oh, and there's my proof of Legion being the first ship-x ;)

    As for future marauders, that's anyone's guess at this point. The only official word we have so far is from DevLeonis:
    "The Marauder faction consists of repurposed AXIS ships. There are no plans to use other factions within the Marauder faction at this time."
    https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/712152/p5

    But again, all is subject to change.

    All that to say, please bring back frigates!!!

    This still does not explain how, let alone (a) why, for the lack of a possible Boarding/Marine Frigate for the new Specialist Class Hull.

    It could be called the, Ravenger, and have maybe also a new Weapon release in regards to still sustaining Damage to Squadrons/Wings Bonus by getting a release of a Flak Cannon with it. And say works in the terms of Seekers but operates still differently of course.


    Thanks,

    MVK
    How would you work boarding into the meta?  Would the ship slam into or attach to the other ship?   Would we then see an animated cut scene fire fight?  

    I don't think you understand the purpose of a boarding ship,and it's lack of need in this game. 
    Death flies on the wings of the Blackbird of ****.
  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    He suggests it like squadrons... I think he means launching a boarding pod like the covenant did in halo. But as for the rest it would be very hard to code in how the damage would work... He also said fuel can be used as if sending drones but your not boarding something at that point xD drones might as well be squadrons

  • dom.friant
    dom.friant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,368
    edited 10 Oct 2017, 11:56PM

    Im shooting them down because your suggestions completely ignore a frigates purpose, maybe as a ship x it could work which I DID STATE THAT. But in normal circumstances its completely worthless as a normal hull. Read before you respond

    Oh I read plenty, but I think we might have different ideas of a frigate's intended purpose and also actual uses, and maybe your ideas are different than mine, and neither might fit Kixeye's intent anyway. I saw GDIAX suggest ship-x could be a frigate, so yes, apparently I missed where you said it too (I do like your idea of dual thrusters though). But you avoided my question. Instead of shooting ideas down, how about suggest how a frigate could fit in with your idea of its intended purpose? How would you make it not worthless? Of course, a year ago if somebody had told me we'd be farming with cutters I would have laughed and said cutters were worthless at farming (except as decoys)... so to make it useful at farming might very well require a new alien target. 

    I'm not trying to argue, I'm genuinely interesting, because the ways I think it could be useful you obviously don't.

    I would be fine with the frigate being the ship-x, but I don't think it has to be the ship-x to be useful is all I'm saying. 

    Ultimately I don't expect to get an axis frigate, but I do hope discussions about them might help tier 7 include one.
    Because I like the Condor!
    http://i.imgur.com/80deZPv.png
  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    A frigate is what battleships and cruisers cant be, low armor but agile. The issue here is the fact damage cannot be escaped anymore resulting in frigates requiring more armor... But why crush the point of a frail but agile and fairly decent strength ship by adding more armor like they did the tornado and hurricane? I understand the hurricane because ISC is armor based. A frigate cant survive in a area where damage is guarenteed unless its a ship x with countermeasures or something... As a normal hull to make it better it would have to be physically able to dodge ALL weapon types do to its low armor style. Bot the hurricane and tornado feel more like agile cruisers than they do frigates because they can take a beating. Thats my point. So for a normal frigate to return... Its going to need something that doesnt push it outside the frail agile ship that it normally is but makes it worthwhile

  • M.V.K.0
    M.V.K.0
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2017 Posts: 870
    edited 11 Oct 2017, 1:56AM
    M.V.K.0 said:

    @Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:
    Revann said:

    @dom.friant said:

    Revann said:

    Also, something no one seems to be thinking about the fact that we lost frigate and gained the specialist class. Which isn’t always supposed to have the same special skill set each tier(something kixeye said in the past) The suppressor is anti squadron. Idk if we will get more specialist ships or if there will legit just be a less ships
    

    Demon Corps got a frigate and a ship-x. I really like the idea of ship-x being something unusual, but I don't think it should replace frigates. 

    Check again... the legion is NOT a specialist ship. It’s a piece of **** ship.

    In the Xeno season briefings (I believe, when ship-x was announced) it was stated that the Legion was the first ship-x, it just wasn't officially called that at the time of its release (they hadn't made up the term yet). No it is not "specialist class" in game, so technically you're correct, but I did not say specialist. To sum it up, specialist no, ship-x, yes.Revann said:

    @Nightmare Deathlock said:
    I dont think ship x was suppose to replace frigates... And dcs ship x is practically non existant to us.

    It was indeed a replacement to the overall ship class “frigate” no more frigates in Vega’s future unless they release a marauder one.

    Do you have a source for that? None of the official announcements I've read ever said there would never again be another frigate. Only that there would not be a xeno or an axis frigate.

    I'm hoping threads like this will show that there is some interest from the 1% in seeing a new frigate.

    I would love a new frigate, I don’t see one being useful against aliens... I believe the threads had stated that ship-x was the replacement to the frigate class. I don’t search the forums. I have glimmers of **** I’ve read, throw it out here, and you smart guys go do that stuff for me. ;)

    Im pretty sure they stated at one point frigates are gone for good... As they barely served much purpose... I would like to see them again though, also about maruaders, theyll likely release marauder versions of the older ships to for smaller players to pvp better.

    I could always have missed it, but the only official statements on the matter I've seen are from the season announcement posts of first xeno and then axis, basically saying they don't have a purpose in regards to farming alien targets. Dreadmango said this:

    --------------------------------------------
    Regarding the Frigate, we reviewed and ultimately decided that the Frigate class had no clear purpose within the new tier 6 target designs. Instead of trying to force the Frigate class into something it is not, we’ll be dropping it from the tier 6 season and will potentially replace it with a another faction-specific “Ship X”. “Ship X” hulls sit outside of normal ship class conventions and add a twist to the meta game. The Legion Battleship is an example of the first Ship X." Dreadmango
    -------------------------------------------

    I can't find the original xeno season announcement thread this was pulled from, but I found the quote here:

    https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/comment/5597257

    That does not say anything about the future, just tier 6. The same thing was basically repeated for axis as it's pretty much a continuation of xeno season, but now with plasma!!

    The way I read it is not that ship-x replaces frigates for all time, but only during these two season. Oddly enough they ended up dropping the xeno carrier too, so xeno is missing a frigate and a carrier. Nobody called it the end of carriers of course since we then got the axis (formerly xeno) carrier. To me all that switcheroo is proof that nothing is set in stone, which is again why I think they could always change their mind and release a frigate...

    Oh, and there's my proof of Legion being the first ship-x ;)

    As for future marauders, that's anyone's guess at this point. The only official word we have so far is from DevLeonis:
    "The Marauder faction consists of repurposed AXIS ships. There are no plans to use other factions within the Marauder faction at this time."
    https://www.kixeye.com/forum/discussion/712152/p5

    But again, all is subject to change.

    All that to say, please bring back frigates!!!

    This still does not explain how, let alone (a) why, for the lack of a possible Boarding/Marine Frigate for the new Specialist Class Hull.

    It could be called the, Ravenger, and have maybe also a new Weapon release in regards to still sustaining Damage to Squadrons/Wings Bonus by getting a release of a Flak Cannon with it. And say works in the terms of Seekers but operates still differently of course.


    Thanks,

    MVK
    How would you work boarding into the meta?  Would the ship slam into or attach to the other ship?   Would we then see an animated cut scene fire fight?  

    I don't think you understand the purpose of a boarding ship,and it's lack of need in this game. 
    Just by Stasis and Damage, no actual boarding has to be done when you can just live by the answers against the cost of a question. About half the game functions that way still. 

    Boarding Ships just need to be slightly bigger then fighters but perhaps not as big a the drones. They only need 2-4 a squadron and only need the practical place of outrange most weapons in simpler to extended terms. 

    The Main Ship is just based on the ideas of Supporting the Boarding Ships themselves for the Boarding Ship to use. 

    As such, the worth of lack, Flak would be reasonable given a good counter would still be carriers for the further range. Could present reasonable to moderate damage to ships, like Seekers but still be more focused towards further away regards then what is still close by. 
    With the Specialist Class gaining Damage to Fighters-Bombers without a difference, even moderate damage to slightly light is fairly compelling to most offenders. 

    Don't think 1910 Boarding Ship Ideas, see it as more Star Trek but not still needing as much when options are open. 

    Or even simply more put a modern Marine Frigate interest without any practical difference. 

    It would be very simple to add the game and would not essentially require anything it still doesn't currently offer for why there is. 

    As such, I honestly think as much as you could say you ever played the game you must have never left the forums since you've been here.
    Given, what Stasis weapon does not do damage??


    Thanks,

    MVK

  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    Let me say this again mvk, the issue is how the affect will play out, theres no real way to tell if the boarders are being killed at a certain rate, drones wont do it because by that point your sending mini versions of squadrons. Actual marines wont cut it because how will they determine total damage the marines are doing and how fast they are being killed? Thats at least 3 new stats they have to put into the game that have never been in the game before... Boarding as never existed in vega for a reason, that reason being itll be a hassle to implement. Squadrons were easy only because they technically act like ships on auto.

  • M.V.K.0
    M.V.K.0
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Jan 2017 Posts: 870
    edited 11 Oct 2017, 3:53AM

    Let me say this again mvk, the issue is how the affect will play out, theres no real way to tell if the boarders are being killed at a certain rate, drones wont do it because by that point your sending mini versions of squadrons. Actual marines wont cut it because how will they determine total damage the marines are doing and how fast they are being killed? Thats at least 3 new stats they have to put into the game that have never been in the game before... Boarding as never existed in vega for a reason, that reason being itll be a hassle to implement. Squadrons were easy only because they technically act like ships on auto.

    Just treat as a typical squadron, but instead of say shots fired effects, they essentially just hover or fly around the ship closer then they do now. The closer parts just reflects the worth of the ships say taking the time to have troops board, until then they are flying to it and say, "getting closer" then being closer for when they got there to do it. 

    Could maybe have like a few little flash effects going towards the ship like jump packs or something going off, drones being sent in even.

    They don't have to actually being going in otherwise for the cost. 

    The worth of life span is based like other Squadrons, once they are destroyed, one fly back to get more and say have to start all over again, of just when fuel ones out.

    The practical effect for the boarding is just simply Stasis and Damage, once the boarding ships get within their range they apply a stasis and dps effect.

    All stasis and dps is based on Flight Time, like current squadrons. 

    I had mentioned this above. 

    The idea of more troops/marine is just based on graphical worth of additional say fighters perhaps in the groups, given think the current workings are the same, or just bigger ones and the actual meta difference from such is that say their is more Stasis and dps applied for Flight time able to have then just dps alone like current squadrons. 

    Since they offer say Stasis differences against the otherwise, can say the dps values are lower, but still higher for dps given for what Stasis can find, given the interest for the boarding for the cost Squadron Survival rates. 

    Stasis could offer least a moderate duration compared to other interests, but still towards maybe some lower numbers for percentage changes once applied. 

    The worth of say Marine info and the like can just be for the info-let regards in an item description as there current is for things. 

    I still like the idea of Stasis and Dps being separate and gradual but both operating at the sametime initially would work. Given, Stasis could run out while dps is still being applied and if Flight Time allows additional stasis to gain but it just being started again. But think the better idea would be just one stasis effect per squardon per Flight, where damage could still be rate per second like fighters and bombers. 

    But, stasis lasting as long as they as there would still be reasonable for simplicity. But again, say initial Level 1s to say to start maybe with 10% stasis effect seems most likely. But 15% might be a reasonable start, but don't think much anything past 40% would be worth for the highest ends for any Level. 

    As such, still seems the biggest question is for how stasis could work then its' worth to have. After that seems to be the sakes of dps for different weapon types.

    Otherwise graphically could see like "flashes" on and coming from the hull of a ship once "boarding" has taken place in regards to the weapon type. Projectile could be little blue lines, Explosive could be orange-red/red-orange circles, Energy could be yellow lines-circles/circles-lines, Alien could be green circles-ovals, etc Void could be like purple stars perhaps. 

    In terms of meta itself, there doesn't have to be one change against what is already used by adding what there isn't.


    Thanks,

    MVK
  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    Did you just miss the point "damage is hard to determine because they dont know if theyre being fired at from in the ship"? Boarding a ship doesnt just mean landing on top of the thing, you have to determine marine health bars, the ships crews own health because obviously the ship itself doesnt have mini guns to take care of the boarding party, the time the boarding crew stays, the health of the pod itself befor reaching the ship, the effects of the crew boarding, the dps output and how many actual marines are landing there... See all that? All the squadrons needed was the fuel meter and boom brand new carrier weapon. A boarding party takes way to much to implement as a weapon of its own... And really isnt going to be worth the effort in a game thats always a fleet of ships killing eachother or a fleet blowing up a base... Which btw the entire city is under the base according to the planet graphics so i doubt we loose msny civilians

  • dom.friant
    dom.friant
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Sep 2014 Posts: 1,368
    edited 11 Oct 2017, 12:58PM

    A frigate is what battleships and cruisers cant be, low armor but agile. The issue here is the fact damage cannot be escaped anymore resulting in frigates requiring more armor... But why crush the point of a frail but agile and fairly decent strength ship by adding more armor like they did the tornado and hurricane? I understand the hurricane because ISC is armor based. A frigate cant survive in a area where damage is guarenteed unless its a ship x with countermeasures or something... As a normal hull to make it better it would have to be physically able to dodge ALL weapon types do to its low armor style. Bot the hurricane and tornado feel more like agile cruisers than they do frigates because they can take a beating. Thats my point. So for a normal frigate to return... Its going to need something that doesnt push it outside the frail agile ship that it normally is but makes it worthwhile

    Ok, I think I finally understand where you're coming from. You've been focusing on frigates prior to ISC and DC, where as I wasn't really being quite so specific and including ISC and DC in thinking how to work one into axis. Thanks for explaining.

    Edit: brand new Enforcer battleship: one armor slot, one shield slot. Nighthawk frigate: one armor slot, one shield slot. ;)

    Because I like the Condor!
    http://i.imgur.com/80deZPv.png
  • Saladman
    Saladman
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Sep 2016 Posts: 154

    We need a new Frigate!

  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    @dom.friant said:
    Nightmare Deathlock said:

    A frigate is what battleships and cruisers cant be, low armor but agile. The issue here is the fact damage cannot be escaped anymore resulting in frigates requiring more armor... But why crush the point of a frail but agile and fairly decent strength ship by adding more armor like they did the tornado and hurricane? I understand the hurricane because ISC is armor based. A frigate cant survive in a area where damage is guarenteed unless its a ship x with countermeasures or something... As a normal hull to make it better it would have to be physically able to dodge ALL weapon types do to its low armor style. Bot the hurricane and tornado feel more like agile cruisers than they do frigates because they can take a beating. Thats my point. So for a normal frigate to return... Its going to need something that doesnt push it outside the frail agile ship that it normally is but makes it worthwhile

    Ok, I think I finally understand where you're coming from. You've been focusing on frigates prior to ISC and DC, where as I wasn't really being quite so specific and including ISC and DC in thinking how to work one into axis. Thanks for explaining.

    Edit: brand new Enforcer battleship: one armor slot, one shield slot. Nighthawk frigate: one armor slot, one shield slot. ;)

    6 weapons 3 weapons :p

  • Nightmare Deathlock
    Nightmare Deathlock
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Oct 2014 Posts: 8,240

    Correction: 7 weapons on the enforcer, and default 3 specials :p

This discussion has been closed.