THE PROBLEMS WITH KIX IN IT"S CURRENT FORM

Bobbylon 5
Bobbylon 5
Skilled Warrior
Joined May 2012 Posts: 539
kix isn't about creating a great scalable game any more.

All it's new content is for the spending whales that pay their bills.

It's been heading this way since they took the Zynga execs on (about two/three years ago) just when they introduced uav's, impulse launcher and the weekly forsaken mission. Oh and uranium.

You can kindof notice that alot of the issues around today stemmed from those power game elements. And now a monthly raid is only achievable if you spend about £50-£100 a month. As you have to coin build the ships, then you have to coin repair during the raid.

I remember when i could get a good prize in a monthly raid spending about 100 coin and using skill, but by the looks of how they're piling money sucking elements into the game. I'm close to out the door.

Not the first time i've said this. But i cant see the point in putting money into something that will eventually dwindle and fail.

They really need to sort many of the issues.

1) A player level thats reflective of tech buildings and ships. As i can't see why a level 50 who's coined loads of ships should be lower than a level 70 whom hasn't coined so has no where near the best equipment.

2) A game is about skill.... SKILL, not money!

3) pay to play or pay to assist is a derogatory term in the hard core gaming community. Essentially it's buying a cheat code.

4) In app currency games create social problems.

5) If you don't have money you shouldn't play a game with an in app currency. As you're essentially fodder. Or second class.  A new class structure brought to you by the business moguls at the top of kix.

6) BP, vega and WC should be classed as games with gambling elements. The ability to coin build a ship, is essentially 'gambling' that your particular loadout build will work.... The odds are if you put those weapons on that ship.... However it's only gambling when you coin build the ship! When the kix lawyers wake up to this they may have a big thing on their hand.

7) how long can they keep convoluting the game? I've been waiting for a piece of tech to come back around, but by the time it does, the ships i have fully built with a space to put the tech on will likely be dropped down to tier 1 on the FM.

Which begs the question...

8) If they're going to keep discounting stuff. Why buy it when it firsts comes out at the ludicrus price (if you can coin enough to get it), because it'll be back around in a year (mostly), then a year after that it'll be in the forsaken at an uber low tier with dramatically reduced build times.

9)if the game lasts that long. Personally i think it will, but only because they're attracting lots of little players, however their business model still panders to the top spending whales, i can't see why most new players would want to continue playing a game when they're four years behind.

Which leads us to the crux...

10) Generating new content every month is great for hardcore players, but most hardcore gamers have probably already left, i've played a plethera of online games that have failed. The funniest is was backyard monsters. Allowing a few coiners to band together in an alliance spells trouble for a game. As when people become farms, they just stop playing. An issue BP is facing over and over again. They can't really open a second server, they also can't really reset the server. Because their business model is pandering to the top spenders. So all they can do is try and stem the exodus of players, as with less players their top spenders will spend less.


So no offence, but kix is taking the long walk into the cursed earth. They can't change but they can't continue.
It's only a game if it's free. If you pay it's a hobby and it's a gamble!
In real life if you throw money at a game (mid game) it's called bribery and it's classed as cheating!

Interesting how a lot of 'computer games' companies have built their company (business model) around cheating!

We live for the one we die for the one!
<picture> <img src="http://cdn100.iofferphoto.com/img/item/170/955/786/wYBj.jpg" > </ picture>
  • launch
    launch
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 578

    check my ideas out below... they do have options... Eve is able to solve the issues, the solution is simple have the ships get blown up when they are blown up. when you constantly are remaking ships, you don't need higher tech constantly. to busy replacing lost ships. So rather than a full dock with maxed out ships, its constantly getting turn over, and rebuilding fleets.


    The game would be back to life and generate more money if ships sank because the gamers come back, and bash each others heads in... they live for that.. if you could sell low end ships, you would have people selling predators and marauders all day long. People would battle every day, because much of the warfare would be lower end ships, considering you can not fight daily with 30 day build time ships, and expect to take no losses everyday.. the average person will have predators and marauders, some long boats. the problem with ships that don't sink is they always come back, they repair and everything is back the way it was. when you lose a fleet, it must be rebuilt, reranked, months to years could be lost, with the lost of a few fleets.

  • Bobbylon 5
    Bobbylon 5
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 539
    launch said:

    check my ideas out below... they do have options... Eve is able to solve the issues, the solution is simple have the ships get blown up when they are blown up. when you constantly are remaking ships, you don't need higher tech constantly. to busy replacing lost ships. So rather than a full dock with maxed out ships, its constantly getting turn over, and rebuilding fleets.


    The game would be back to life and generate more money if ships sank because the gamers come back, and bash each others heads in... they live for that.. if you could sell low end ships, you would have people selling predators and marauders all day long. People would battle every day, because much of the warfare would be lower end ships, considering you can not fight daily with 30 day build time ships, and expect to take no losses everyday.. the average person will have predators and marauders, some long boats. the problem with ships that don't sink is they always come back, they repair and everything is back the way it was. when you lose a fleet, it must be rebuilt, reranked, months to years could be lost, with the lost of a few fleets.

    Eve has to go through server resets, because people stop playing when the top coiners band together and stomp out everyone else.

    I would personally never start a game that has both an in app currency and works on multiple servers. As i would rather spend money on my girl. Yes they're both likely to potentially disappear in x time, but i think i would rather throw my money at someone that i can potentially still talk to in ten years time.

    kix hasn't got the balance right. However they're doing a lot better than the six mont (or less) before reset games.
    However they have found themself in the awful position that if they reset, they would lose to many of their big spenders. However the game has become so convoluted and keyed towards those at the front, that it's putting new people off playing. That's the real issue. Most of the people playing today, have been playing for a while, a lot of those little accounts are actually second/third accounts of people that have been playing for a while. As the game when it started appealed to normal people. Now that it's CONVOLUTED with so much stuff, most normal people will go play candy crush or something simpler that gives them that instant fix. With BP it's their own fault... The introduction of the Weekly FM was when they started having to many BP's. The new power weapon types were the other nails in the coffin.

    I'm honestly going to keep thinking for the sake of kix, but the only solutions i can come up with are massive overhauls.


    However the biggest issue they need to deal with. Is the player level. A player can have tons of old tech and hulls and be at a higher level and at a major disadvantage to someone who's coined to get all the new tech and hulls. The only way i can see this fixed is to have a dynamic player level. So if you don't play for a few months and fall behind on tech, you drop some levels. Also making sure older tech gives less experience even if one has already got the tech, when the level reduces it's reduced for all.

    This should help kix get the balance right about releasing new tech as continuously piling so much new tech out under the dynamic level rules would see everyone but the most active lose levels every month. I would honestly give it about a year before many players fall below level 50. I only say that because i'm not likely to hit tier four of the FM anytime soon and it's been almost a year since i got a top prize in the monthly raid... So i already know that i'll be one of those sliding down. However, most importantly it would help kix see exactly where the problems are in their games.

    So DYNAMIC PLAYER LEVELS.
    It's only a game if it's free. If you pay it's a hobby and it's a gamble!
    In real life if you throw money at a game (mid game) it's called bribery and it's classed as cheating!

    Interesting how a lot of 'computer games' companies have built their company (business model) around cheating!

    We live for the one we die for the one!
    <picture> <img src="http://cdn100.iofferphoto.com/img/item/170/955/786/wYBj.jpg" > </ picture>
  • launch
    launch
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 578
    That wouldn't mean more level 27-40 strongholds would appear though, that is how most new players make it. they kill 10-20 a day, using it to build research and the fm missions, which is a needed stepping stone to higher levels... without it player levels are insignificant, you can win new hulls if you have the ability to rank your ships, make the resources, and win new tech. The coiners here stomp there feet and wont pay when unhappy... remember the 3rd raid ever? how many boycott threads are there? thousands? it isn't any different.... The developers in here have said many times fewer to no new hulls(in the development threads).. accounting taps them on the shoulder and says more ships... so more ships.. The game idea I outlined works because if you see 20 other allys out in predators and battle barges, the other enemies are also in them... and you know if you take out an atlas carrier, that all 20 of the enemies junk fleets will attack and sink your prized ship... your going to keep it in dock, unless targets warrant bringing it out... you wont sit there, you will bring out ships of your own of a lower level, that is how the balancing will work. for example if you make ranking incentivized... for example if you sink an atlas carrier with a predator, and gain 10 ranks, meaning you could pick something like, the upgraded predator will get 100 weight and a third torpedo tube. you just provided a huge reason for people to attack that carrier. You hurt an enemy and help yourself. People go into this knowing they will lose a ton of ships.
  • Bobbylon 5
    Bobbylon 5
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 539
    Interestingly 40's were my mainstay for doing the FM. Then i retroed a mercury fleet with bypass missiles and can now hit several 55's or one 65.

    The only problem with your one time ship. Is that it favours big spenders.... massively!
    It's the reason i don't like businees that operate with a clear pay to win structure. Any Juve can max out dads credit card and wipe out months of hard work by the norms that mistakingly think they're playing a game.

    So I can't stress this enough, a pay to win structure or anything that brings kix closer to that type of business is bad.

    Currently they operate in the realms of pay to assist, which still holds on to the fact that it might be a game tho i prefer to think of pay to assist businesses as hobbies. Rather than games.
    It's only a game if it's free. If you pay it's a hobby and it's a gamble!
    In real life if you throw money at a game (mid game) it's called bribery and it's classed as cheating!

    Interesting how a lot of 'computer games' companies have built their company (business model) around cheating!

    We live for the one we die for the one!
    <picture> <img src="http://cdn100.iofferphoto.com/img/item/170/955/786/wYBj.jpg" > </ picture>
  • LandedKiller 22
    LandedKiller 22
    Master Tactician
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 2,291
    kix isn't about creating a great scalable game any more.

    All it's new content is for the spending whales that pay their bills.

    It's been heading this way since they took the Zynga execs on (about two/three years ago) just when they introduced uav's, impulse launcher and the weekly forsaken mission. Oh and uranium.

    You can kindof notice that alot of the issues around today stemmed from those power game elements. And now a monthly raid is only achievable if you spend about £50-£100 a month. As you have to coin build the ships, then you have to coin repair during the raid.

    I remember when i could get a good prize in a monthly raid spending about 100 coin and using skill, but by the looks of how they're piling money sucking elements into the game. I'm close to out the door.

    Not the first time i've said this. But i cant see the point in putting money into something that will eventually dwindle and fail.

    They really need to sort many of the issues.

    1) A player level thats reflective of tech buildings and ships. As i can't see why a level 50 who's coined loads of ships should be lower than a level 70 whom hasn't coined so has no where near the best equipment.

    2) A game is about skill.... SKILL, not money!

    3) pay to play or pay to assist is a derogatory term in the hard core gaming community. Essentially it's buying a cheat code.

    4) In app currency games create social problems.

    5) If you don't have money you shouldn't play a game with an in app currency. As you're essentially fodder. Or second class.  A new class structure brought to you by the business moguls at the top of kix.

    6) BP, vega and WC should be classed as games with gambling elements. The ability to coin build a ship, is essentially 'gambling' that your particular loadout build will work.... The odds are if you put those weapons on that ship.... However it's only gambling when you coin build the ship! When the kix lawyers wake up to this they may have a big thing on their hand.

    7) how long can they keep convoluting the game? I've been waiting for a piece of tech to come back around, but by the time it does, the ships i have fully built with a space to put the tech on will likely be dropped down to tier 1 on the FM.

    Which begs the question...

    8) If they're going to keep discounting stuff. Why buy it when it firsts comes out at the ludicrus price (if you can coin enough to get it), because it'll be back around in a year (mostly), then a year after that it'll be in the forsaken at an uber low tier with dramatically reduced build times.

    9)if the game lasts that long. Personally i think it will, but only because they're attracting lots of little players, however their business model still panders to the top spending whales, i can't see why most new players would want to continue playing a game when they're four years behind.

    Which leads us to the crux...

    10) Generating new content every month is great for hardcore players, but most hardcore gamers have probably already left, i've played a plethera of online games that have failed. The funniest is was backyard monsters. Allowing a few coiners to band together in an alliance spells trouble for a game. As when people become farms, they just stop playing. An issue BP is facing over and over again. They can't really open a second server, they also can't really reset the server. Because their business model is pandering to the top spenders. So all they can do is try and stem the exodus of players, as with less players their top spenders will spend less.


    So no offence, but kix is taking the long walk into the cursed earth. They can't change but they can't continue.
    I agree but you need to think about what level you are now versus what level you were then .
  • Kelly Carter
    Kelly Carter
    Greenhorn
    Joined Mar 2016 Posts: 1

    I really like the game. I'm conflicted when the mission is to attack other player or there bases. That to me promotes PVP instead of game missions.

  • RalleYTN
    RalleYTN
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined May 2015 Posts: 3,440
    2) A game is about skill.... SKILL, not money!
    let me correct that:
    "A game is about fun.... FUN, not money!"
    https://us.v-cdn.net/5020171/uploads/editor/i2/1kwndvz8mbme.gif
  • kixeyeuser_1375810824263_12234_28846940
    kixeyeuser_1375810824263_12234_28846940
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2016 Posts: 4,911

    @launch said:
    That wouldn't mean more level 27-40 strongholds would appear though, that is how most new players make it. they kill 10-20 a day, using it to build research and the fm missions, which is a needed stepping stone to higher levels... without it player levels are insignificant, you can win new hulls if you have the ability to rank your ships, make the resources, and win new tech.

    The coiners here stomp there feet and wont pay when unhappy... remember the 3rd raid ever? how many boycott threads are there? thousands? it isn't any different.... The developers in here have said many times fewer to no new hulls(in the development threads).. accounting taps them on the shoulder and says more ships... so more ships..

    The game idea I outlined works because if you see 20 other allys out in predators and battle barges, the other enemies are also in them... and you know if you take out an atlas carrier, that all 20 of the enemies junk fleets will attack and sink your prized ship... your going to keep it in dock, unless targets warrant bringing it out... you wont sit there, you will bring out ships of your own of a lower level, that is how the balancing will work. for example if you make ranking incentivized... for example if you sink an atlas carrier with a predator, and gain 10 ranks, meaning you could pick something like, the upgraded predator will get 100 weight and a third torpedo tube. you just provided a huge reason for people to attack that carrier. You hurt an enemy and help yourself. People go into this knowing they will lose a ton of ships.

    That would suck so much for me.........as if i lost a single Hellhound......the SY time lost as well as my fleet capabilities.......

  • Bobbylon 5
    Bobbylon 5
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined May 2012 Posts: 539
    RalleYTN said:
    2) A game is about skill.... SKILL, not money!
    let me correct that:
    "A game is about fun.... FUN, not money!"
    I hold to my original statement tho i will make an amended concession.

    A game is about "Skill"...
    However "Fun" makes people more likely to come back regardless of skill level..
    People will play something that they're good at even if they don't have fun.

    Personally i can't remember the last time i logged in and had fun.
    So i have to disagree with your statement. Likely because i'm slightly addicted.
    However you are right about fun as i have fun every week at my board game night. It's just not something i associate with kix anymore.
    Chores, yes, unfairness, yes. An unfair power game that you need to buy your way to the top, yes.
    Fun? That stopped nearly two years ago.

    Which is ultimately how kix will end, when they push the power game bit that little step to far and the people at the top of the game see that having the newest 'killer' weapon is  actually pushing people that don't have it away.

    It's only a game if it's free. If you pay it's a hobby and it's a gamble!
    In real life if you throw money at a game (mid game) it's called bribery and it's classed as cheating!

    Interesting how a lot of 'computer games' companies have built their company (business model) around cheating!

    We live for the one we die for the one!
    <picture> <img src="http://cdn100.iofferphoto.com/img/item/170/955/786/wYBj.jpg" > </ picture>
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