Serious discussion with Kixeye, please.

DreadStorm
DreadStorm
Skilled Warrior
Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 355
edited 22 Oct 2015, 7:25PM
I'm sure some of you recognize me by now. ~35 year veteran IT tech and network administrator. Career nerd, I suppose you could say. I'm writing this to you because it's, well, become quite unbearable lately trying to play your game.

I've made my share of jokes, hoping to put a humorous spin on very irritating topics. Some examples like,
"Are you not yet convinced that your developers are retarded in some special way? When does the short bus come by to pick them up after work?"
"Y'all don't sharpen yer tools much, do ya?"
"Need to upgrade from those 386-based servers and join modern times."

But truth be told, being an IT tech for decades clues me in on some of the issues going on. What really gripes my **** though, is the lack of listening to the little guy. Us - the players who actually use the thing. Not the devs who have a closed environment where they can "hack" the game sufficiently to suit needs for testing these updates and the units coming out. This is all well and good, because not many companies actually bend an ear to the people that use their stuff. So you have a leg up in that arena.

But let's be honest. There's not nearly enough listening going on. I'm willing to bet that you Mods read all the feedback, and pick & choose common threads of a given complaint, accolade, etc. Perfectly understandable. But there are some serious legitimate gripes that they need to be made aware of in their entirety, not just "the gist of it." A well thought out missive can have far more impact than the occasional "bugs in base don't run like they're supposed to." (Which is still an ongoing issue since way back before the world map! And it pisses me off, really.)

I've been playing the game for ages. I can't even remember when I first started. I have had two accounts (yes, all kept within Kixeye's TOS) and my oldest one is ID# 273900. Been around for a while, yeah. Back when the Medic and Mechanic did all the work - and no world map. So I think I have a pretty good idea of what's going on around your place there. So I'm going to list some of MY major gripes. I'm sure most - if not all - will line up with everyone else's complaints.

1) Make sure your Developers are RTS gamers themselves. If they're always playing things like Call of Duty, they have no clue how an RTS runs. Sorry, but fact is fact. The RTS genre contains things like Command & Conquer, StarCraft, Supreme Commander, Total Annihilation, and similar. If they have no level of expertise with those, they're useless in this game. And need to be replaced.
2) Make sure that all updates are fully tested - but NOT in a closed environment where everything runs smooth, has no lag, and behaves as it should. But in the real world - bounce off a Russian proxy or something, while testing. Invite a few loyal players to join in testing BEFORE the rollout.
3) Stop lying to people. Not all of us are idiots. Particularly me. I had once quit the game for 13 months because I was lied to and got no satisfaction from my issue. Granted, most players are not as well educated and end up being rather gullible. But not all of us. Lying is not acceptable in any realm, much less the business world. And stop going back on your word. You promise this and that, and suddenly make things unbearable by going against what you said. Prime example is, when Thorium first came out, all uses (upgrades, builds, etc) were supposed to be 5 seconds or less. I could classify this as a lie, but it's more of a double-crossing. ANYthing that uses Thorium should be made 5 seconds or less. Period. I don't care what it is. You gave your word, make it happen. No excuses.
4) No more new things, okay? Not for a while. Try focusing all your efforts on all these neglected issues and fix stuff. We don't really care how nifty this chopper is, or how handy that weapon is. We really don't. Not when we have to wait 3 to 4 solid hours just to use the friggin game after these improperly (un)tested things are added. We'd rather do without the changes until the existing problems are fixed. Above all things, existing issues MUST be top priority. From our perspective, nothing is worse than having to stare at your base, waiting 4 hours for the game to be usable, because someone had this idiot "promotions" idea. Fix the game and stop using band-aids.
5) Speaking of updates. In all of the business world, if they push out a rollout and it fails, they recall it, fix it, then roll it out again. Not you. No, you'd rather roll it out, watch it fail miserably, then try to "patch" it and make it work, while millions of users are stewing in their juices waiting for it to become functional. This doesn't work. If you expect to keep loyal players, you have to find a different business model. Particularly where people like me (heavy coiners) are supporting your business. If you cannot provide what is paid for, you're opening yourself up for disaster. You have to make sure a given "update" is 100% functional before it is applied. And you wonder why Kixeye has had to lay off a lot of staff. People who support you are becoming seriously disappointed. I'm trying to help you, but even I will only go so far. If a rollout fails, ROLLBACK! Enough making bad worse.
6) You can't sell someone a Cadillac, and give them a Volkswagen. That's illegal. And believe it or not, same rule applies in every form of business. You must provide what is paid for. If someone spends money on a unit, for example, buys the building of a Lead Preserver with a certain set of specifications, and then you turn around afterward and nerf the unit, they are suddenly not getting what they paid for. Just saying.

So that's really all of it, I think. I hope this goes to the proper channels, and not filtered to deliver just the "gist of it" to them. I'm trying to help. But the state of the game now is heading to a major disaster, and now none of you can say you didn't know. But I'm willing to wager it'll probably be "merged" or deleted entirely, because no one wants to listen.

And that's fine. But remember. Everyone has a limit to what they're willing to endure. And judging by the Forums going up in flames after every "maintenance," the outlook isn't good.

-Wayne
AKA DreadStorm™
Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

VEGA Conflict: 6486271 (quit due to the idiocy of that Unity changeover's UI revamp)
War Commander 2615750 (Level 44)
  • JamesHowlett
    JamesHowlett
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 5,005
    How the hell is this Off-Topic?

    Or is this just a place to hide it so people can't see it?
    Daisy's!  I'm pushing up Daisy's!  Cause everyone loves Daisy's!  Everything is perfect in this game and I love Daisy's
  • DreadStorm
    DreadStorm
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 355
    Pretty much. Well, he's pissed me off, so I think I might spam the entire forums in every group to get the point across.

    And he didn't even give me the **** dignity of a response.
    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

    VEGA Conflict: 6486271 (quit due to the idiocy of that Unity changeover's UI revamp)
    War Commander 2615750 (Level 44)
  • wolf cub
    wolf cub
    Potential Threat
    Joined Apr 2014 Posts: 29
    this op is not off topic, it is entirely about the game so please move it back to the general forum and stop trying to hide it in the off topic section. cm sulaco your job is not to hide peoples comments but to respond to them and relay to kixeye
  • RUSTY-BALLS
    RUSTY-BALLS
    Strike-force Captain
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 877
    if this is  off-topic then your stupid 
    Kick **** and have fun!

  • Fredric_P
    Fredric_P
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 187
    I posted link to this post in general discussion, pls do it to :-)
  • DreadStorm
    DreadStorm
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 355
    Fredric_P said:
    I posted link to this post in general discussion, pls do it to :-)
    Thank you, sir.
    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

    VEGA Conflict: 6486271 (quit due to the idiocy of that Unity changeover's UI revamp)
    War Commander 2615750 (Level 44)
  • wolf cub
    wolf cub
    Potential Threat
    Joined Apr 2014 Posts: 29
    its been closed fredric lol.

  • TacomanWasTaken
    TacomanWasTaken
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 6,397
    lol I don't get why you guys don't just quit if the game is THAT bad. Like seriously, just call your CC company, ask for a chargeback and quit the game that way you dont lose any money and you can leave the game in peace. 
    getting called a cheater, if you arent cheating just means you won
    Join our Clan! | Donation Link | Hannibal Boss Base |  Thanksgiving Video!   | Facebook Page | IGN: Tacoman
  • TacomanWasTaken
    TacomanWasTaken
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Jul 2011 Posts: 6,397
    Because as I've stated several times up there, I'm "trying to help." We like the game, we want to keep playing, but when you CAN'T play, where's the benefit?

    Stop trolling unless you have something worthwhile to add.
    You can like the game all you want but you are contradicting yourself here.

    We like the game

    Yet

    What's the benefit when you CANT PLAY.

    If there is no benefit then why continue? That's what I don't get...

    As for me trolling? You're the one who said you are considering spamming the forums over and over because your OFF TOPIC thread was moved....
    getting called a cheater, if you arent cheating just means you won
    Join our Clan! | Donation Link | Hannibal Boss Base |  Thanksgiving Video!   | Facebook Page | IGN: Tacoman
  • stu.hickman.7
    stu.hickman.7
    Potential Threat
    Joined Sep 2013 Posts: 54
    well said dreadstorm, about time guys stood up for what is promised, sort it out kixeye, i know of lots of high level guys including me, that have had enough, been playing the game for ages,  that are very close to saying bye bye to game, its getting beyond a joke now, 
    if you want to loose alot of the guys who keep paying into the game, then carry on, but its got to the point, that we all seem to make you aware of issues, but what happens,.......nothing, you just create new stuff for players to try and achieve, or put it in a lottery system, when you have been playing game for ages, try your best, and some new player lvl30 posts up he got it on first or second attempt.
    sort things out, enough is enough  
  • fabiano.tofoli.3
    fabiano.tofoli.3
    Greenhorn
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 9
    AMEM ;-) great post!!!
    All time they say that prizes system never repeat, and I earn same prizes all time....
  • rick.hersom
    rick.hersom
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2014 Posts: 207
    By profession I am a business turnaround executive. I have made my living helping to save companies from extinction or helping them die with dignity because they are not salvageable. What we are experiencing here with Kixeye is referred to in my profession as an entities "Death Spiral"...I typically see this when upper management who for the record is always the root cause of any problem chooses not to connect with the wants and needs of their customers. You can clearly see that playing itself out here.... The players ask for one thing....Kixeye gives us something else...In a scramble to stop the cash bleed those of us who support the game via coining are given new toys and reasons to coin...yet the infrastructure within Kixeye is insufficient to support what is rolled out... Eventually the hemorrhaging of cash as a result of lost revenue of coining players will become so immense the final decision to pull the plug will be an easy one.... Such a shame.. But it always is when ownership..Board of Directors and or upper management are as disconnected from what WE the customers  are really asking for...
  • Fredric_P
    Fredric_P
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Mar 2013 Posts: 187
    We continue to play this game because we like it and still hope Kixeye will listen to us. DreadStorm is adressing real issues and hes only trying to point them out to kixeye. Whats really sad is that kixeye dont listen and their respons is to move this thread to offtopic. This is more on topic than many other posts ive seen. What i wonder is why they dont even show respect and answer even if only to say they dont care what we think. Lack of respect i call it.
  • greenwing
    greenwing
    Incursion Leader
    Joined Nov 2011 Posts: 1,052
    Meme_Man said:
    Because as I've stated several times up there, I'm "trying to help." We like the game, we want to keep playing, but when you CAN'T play, where's the benefit?

    Stop trolling unless you have something worthwhile to add.
    You can like the game all you want but you are contradicting yourself here.

    We like the game

    Yet

    What's the benefit when you CANT PLAY.

    If there is no benefit then why continue? That's what I don't get...

    As for me trolling? You're the one who said you are considering spamming the forums over and over because your OFF TOPIC thread was moved....
    It is plain simple, we like to play the game. Unfortunately we cannot play as much as we like. Therefore it is about time things will change, especially on the server-part. Some things could be 'easily' fixed with easily inside quotes because it will take some effort to do so.
  • SgtSlaughter68
    SgtSlaughter68
    Greenhorn
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 3
    I completely agrees with you, Dread. I would like to see a bit more testing before they go live with new or upgraded technologies... But I can see how Kixeye is likely insulted at your choice of words....

    My main issue, however, is the continued propagation of the strong getting stronger, while the weak getting proportionally weaker. The weak don't have any chance of catching up without significant "help" from those "above" them....
  • DreadStorm
    DreadStorm
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 355
    I completely agrees with you, Dread. I would like to see a bit more testing before they go live with new or upgraded technologies... But I can see how Kixeye is likely insulted at your choice of words....

    My main issue, however, is the continued propagation of the strong getting stronger, while the weak getting proportionally weaker. The weak don't have any chance of catching up without significant "help" from those "above" them....
    That's actually an inherent issue in any RTS game. The difference here is it takes months, or years for one to catch up, whereas in StarCraft, for example, only a matter of minutes to catch up. But all RTS games have that same issue of weaker-vs-stronger.
    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

    VEGA Conflict: 6486271 (quit due to the idiocy of that Unity changeover's UI revamp)
    War Commander 2615750 (Level 44)
  • Jezebelle8
    Jezebelle8
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 47
    I for one am super tired of lag and unresponsiveness in this game. When i complain im told its all on my end. Which is complete nonsense. I'd really like Kixeye to take some responsibility here and fix the issues plaguing this game. I love a good event, but lately they are wrought with issues. Can you recall one that began smoothly in recent memory? I cannot. Its becoming impossible to play. 
  • DreadStorm
    DreadStorm
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Aug 2011 Posts: 355
    Yeah, the one they ran just before I quit for 13 months - when the FAV was the awarded prize. heh
    Never argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

    VEGA Conflict: 6486271 (quit due to the idiocy of that Unity changeover's UI revamp)
    War Commander 2615750 (Level 44)
  • Jezebelle8
    Jezebelle8
    Potential Threat
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 47
    and on a side note, how the hell is this considered off topic? Its fkn SPOT ON
  • itsastony
    itsastony
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Dec 2011 Posts: 478
    edited 22 Oct 2015, 7:53PM
    to be honest I fear we are beating a dead horse ... rick hersom put his finger on it ... soon the rats will leave the sinking boat ... I mean putting THIS topic to off-topic pretty much says it all, doesnt it ... I see this behaviour once in a while also. working with craftsmen as my profession. when their business is about to die, they tend to just stick their heads into the sand. seems like kixeye is about to do that with WC.

    IF they dont get ahold of that bad lag and fix a lot of those mayor bugs plus implement a more affordable payment system, this game will simply die.
  • Daniel26
    Daniel26
    Master Tactician
    Joined Oct 2012 Posts: 2,219
    DreadStorm - I like this part of what you said the best:

     "I've made my share of jokes, hoping to put a humorous spin on very irritating topics. Some examples like,
    "Are you not yet convinced that your developers are retarded in some special way? When does the short bus come by to pick them up after work?"
    "Y'all don't sharpen yer tools much, do ya?"
    "Need to upgrade from those 386-based servers and join modern times."

    This reminds me of a little over 40 years ago while walking to school and seeing that short bus.  I always wondered why I couldn't ride it and the kids in it would just look out the windows and make faces at me.  LOL!

    Also, regarding 386 bases servers -> I have an old Atari 800XL computer that I would even consider donating to the development team if I thought it would help but then again I doubt many of them have even heard of such an ancient creature.

    Well, that's my 2 cents worth of poking fun.  On to other places to use up the other 108%.   :)



    [COLOR="#00FF00"]Home Sector: 108
    Level: 42
    Group: Wolves of War (Inactive)  but friends of many.
    Event/Mission Rewards: Not all but way too many to keep track of.
  • Britsh_army
    Britsh_army
    Potential Threat
    Joined Apr 2013 Posts: 49
    i completely agree ide rather game works than new stuff constantly 
  • Ismail.J.Force
    Ismail.J.Force
    Skilled Warrior
    Joined Jul 2013 Posts: 345

    Yep i agree with this

    Games Don't make Violence
    A Lag Does make Violence
    CLOSE APPLICATION VIA Task Manager to reduce the amount of ram used
    CLOSE TABS Using a bunch of Tabs Increases Your Lag
    Clean Your Internet and CACHE ! >420<
    HAVE the decenty to do all those things and your in good hands 
  • mrmikes
    mrmikes
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jan 2013 Posts: 198
    Off Topic I think not why move it ????????
  • Harley111
    Harley111
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Aug 2014 Posts: 150

    Of course we like the game, or at least the premiss of it, or we would not be here.  I think at least 90% of the players agree with every word Dread said.  But most of also see what Rick said above as an expert.  We see a company pouring cement in the bottom of the boat, to stop the leaks, and sooner or later it has to sink.  None of us want to sign on and see a blank screen that says Kixeye is out of business.  Years ago, I used to recommend this game to everyone I talked to about games.  Now, I would be embarrassed to recommend it to anyone.  Their slogan is "games by gamers for gamers".  If they were wise, each person in management would spend 1 day every 2 weeks, playing the game from home, over real life connections, and watching the global chat conversations to experience the frustration and watch the general dissatisfaction.  We are not complaining because we are whiners, we are asking Kixeye to save this game before you force us to leave it, or worse yet, it implodes and we don't have it anymore.
  • rick.hersom
    rick.hersom
    Minor Nuisance
    Joined Jul 2014 Posts: 207
    They move it because they are instructed by upper management to do so.....This is a desperate attempt to prolong the inevitable
  • JamesHowlett
    JamesHowlett
    Unicorn Overlord
    Joined Feb 2013 Posts: 5,005
    All I'm gonna say is look at this site.  http://corp.kixeye.com/

    Then look at the following quote from that page:  Today KIXEYE is focused on making incredibly high quality games for the mobile market and has offices in San Francisco, Brisbane and Victoria. We are hiring. Join us. 

    ALL resources are being poured into the mobile games they have on the horizon.  The 'Legacy' games are just an after thought.  As long as they still bring in more cash than they bleed they will continue to exist.
    Daisy's!  I'm pushing up Daisy's!  Cause everyone loves Daisy's!  Everything is perfect in this game and I love Daisy's
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